Blood pressure & Cholesterol control.

**MisterD** · 02-08-2013, 06:49 PM

Bear,

Statin is like a Lipitor for high cholesterol prescribed by the Docs.

**gymfu** · 02-08-2013, 11:00 PM

I've never had a problem with my blood pressure but my last blood work results were kinda scary. I was using 450mg of test and 400mg tren . 12.5mg of aromasin ED.

My LDL was up to 200! And HDL was 40 (I think). Not sure if it was the tren or diet or what. Was not doing any cardio at the time and eating three red meat meals (bulking diet).

I terminated the cycle a little early and will retest in a couple of months.

I've been using pretty much all the advice here, fish oil, oats, niacin, garlic, everything except cardio.

Doing more cardio now and have replaced one red meat meal with fish. I can post my blood work when I get retested.

**Honkey_Kong** · 02-09-2013, 05:01 AM

Originally Posted by fit2bOld

Fish oil and if you have a history of HBP your physician should be consulted. An small dose of an Ace inhibitor make mine perfect along with cardio.
Men should avoid excess soy intake as it can raise estrogen.

I currently take metoprolol right now. It's a beta-blocker class drug and it gives me good results. Beta-blockers should never be a male's first choice for BP medication. There are possible sexual side-effects that affect quite a few men who take them. This particular drug doesn't have such effects on me.

I definitely suggest if you're going to take a BP medication, you definitely need to dial this in with your physician prior to cycling. This is not something to do on your own.

**Java Man** · 02-09-2013, 06:10 AM

Originally Posted by MisterD

Bear great thread...

Just recently I had bloodwork done and my lipids were high. RBC was high so i donated some blood. I have always had perfect BP however on the day of the blood donation it was 140/90 which is borderline high so i ordered my Cialis and started taking.

1- baby aspirin (coated)
3- grams of Omegas
2- garlic pills
2- cups of oats - pre workout and post workout

And since im currently on a Blast cycle im taking Arimidex and just ordered Aramason instead..better on the lipids.

Now my question is..... Anyone out there with high cholesterol taking low doses of Statin while on gear?

Thanks
D

I'm taking 10mg/d simvastatin for cholesterol and 50mg metoprolol (Toprol xr) 1/d for bp control.
AAS = 50mg dbol in 3 divided doses\day, test e 250 mg e3d.

3rd week in. bp has gone up from 130/85 to avg 140/94 but my bp has been that way since I was a kid. I'm not alarmed by it. Everyone in my family has what is considered 'High Normal' bp. For my family that's a normal range. Longevity (85-90yrs) also runs in my family. Goes against the statistics but no heart attack history either. I truly believe some people have higher 'normal' bp than others, just a some people run hot with a regular body temp of 99f. My hdl is 56 which is on the high end (ie good) but my hdl/ldl ratio is high (5ish). LDL is high too, 230 or so. I get screened every 6 mos. If I remember I'll post my next result in april.

AD · 02-09-2013, 06:22 AM

I take simvastatin 20mg ed for my cholesterol. I dont have a bp problem unless i look at a certain member's avi, but i do keep some bp meds on hand. I like propanolol 10mg prn when i feel overly excited or nervous. And indapamide 2.5mg when i feel bloated with water, while waiting for my ai to work.

For the general population, or for very mild cases, lifestyle changes like dieting and exercise and weight loss might help. But for long-term aas users, i fear meds may be the only way.

**bobdurden** · 02-09-2013, 10:08 PM

Hey guys,
I have a BP monitor at home that I use occasionally just to satisfy my curiosity. I'm usually averaging around 120/70. My question is, what would you guys recommend for a person to have on hand in case things start getting a bit out of control while on cycle?

I'm not talking supplements or diet changes, but something with a more immediate impact on BP. I was thinking about searching around online and ordering an ACE like Lisinopril, but these usually take a couple weeks to have an effect. I noticed that some of you guys have been taking cial from AR-R and as a side effect, it's lowered your BP. Does Cial seem like a logical way to approach the situation? From my understanding the effects are rather quick and has a long half life(3 days).

What do you guys think?

**Honkey_Kong** · 02-10-2013, 02:33 AM

Originally Posted by bobdurden

Hey guys,
I have a BP monitor at home that I use occasionally just to satisfy my curiosity. I'm usually averaging around 120/70. My question is, what would you guys recommend for a person to have on hand in case things start getting a bit out of control while on cycle?

I'm not talking supplements or diet changes, but something with a more immediate impact on BP. I was thinking about searching around online and ordering an ACE like Lisinopril, but these usually take a couple weeks to have an effect. I noticed that some of you guys have been taking cial from AR-R and as a side effect, it's lowered your BP. Does Cial seem like a logical way to approach the situation? From my understanding the effects are rather quick and has a long half life(3 days).

What do you guys think?

Well what does your cycle look like? High BP isn't usually something that kills you over night. It does it's damage over the long term. It's known as "the silent killer" because most people who suffer from it, suffer for a long time without any noticeable symptoms. We're talking years here, not 8 or 10 weeks. I don't want you to think this is an excuse to ignore BP issues while on your cycle, but don't worry about a temporary elevation too much, unless it's a drastic gain.

**The Bear 79** · 02-10-2013, 08:04 AM

I agree with HK, & when I said for some it could be the difference between life & death, I should have followed up with an explanation, let's say a user has had HBP for an 2, 3 or maybe even 8 or 10 years, but never knew it (it happens more often than you think) & then they decide to use AAS, well the hike in their already high blood pressure could end up being the smoking gun due to damages already done over time.

But also keep in mind, there are those with normal BP all their life, that jump on gear & their BP blows the roof off the house, in spite of normal levels their whole life, they could very well be in danger of a heart attack just the same.

Great participation & info here guys, keep em commin

**Honkey_Kong** · 02-10-2013, 08:09 AM

Originally Posted by The Bear 79

I agree with HK, & when I said for some it could be the difference between life & death, I should have followed up with an explanation, let's say a user has had HBP for an 2, 3 or maybe even 8 or 10 years, but never knew it (it happens more often than you think) & then they decide to use AAS, well the hike in their already high blood pressure could end up being the smoking gun due to damages already done over time.

But also keep in mind, there are those with normal BP all their life, that jump on gear & their BP blows the roof off the house, in spite of normal levels their whole life, they could very well be in danger of a heart attack just the same.

Great participation & info here guys, keep em commin

Yeah if they go from 110/70 to like 190/110 on cycle, they need to get some help. Most people wont have to worry about a jump like that though, but they should still check their BP.

**fries** · 02-11-2013, 06:13 AM

I have high blood pressure on cycle and upper end of normal when off.
I utilize Garlic, Red Yeast Rice, CoQ10, and UDCA for heart (and liver) health.

**The Bear 79** · 02-11-2013, 07:00 AM

Originally Posted by fries

I have high blood pressure on cycle and upper end of normal when off.
I utilize Garlic, Red Yeast Rice, CoQ10, and UDCA for heart (and liver) health.

What is UDCA, & how does it work?

**lovbyts** · 02-11-2013, 07:05 AM

Originally Posted by The Bear 79

What is UDCA, & how does it work?

It's supposed to be a lot better and effective than Milk Thistle and Liv52 for the liver. I started taking it last week.

TUDCA/UDCA combats this vicious cycle by aiding the production of bile. TUDCA supports bile flow to remove these toxic metabolites from the liver. In this way, TUDCA protects you against cholestasis to ensure cholesterol metabolism. Because TUDCA ensures that you’re breaking down fat, it helps to prevent fatty liver disease. It also protects the liver against cell death. Not only do you get liver protection, but you’ve got a built in cholesterol fighter when you take TUDCA.

**terraj** · 02-11-2013, 07:32 AM

Intense cardio for 20 mins, 3 times a week is the first thing to do, this will drop your numbers straight away. Much better idea than taking med or supps...

**The Bear 79** · 02-11-2013, 07:44 AM

Originally Posted by lovbyts

It's supposed to be a lot better and effective than Milk Thistle and Liv52 for the liver. I started taking it last week.

TUDCA/UDCA combats this vicious cycle by aiding the production of bile. TUDCA supports bile flow to remove these toxic metabolites from the liver. In this way, TUDCA protects you against cholestasis to ensure cholesterol metabolism. Because TUDCA ensures that you’re breaking down fat, it helps to prevent fatty liver disease. It also protects the liver against cell death. Not only do you get liver protection, but you’ve got a built in cholesterol fighter when you take TUDCA.

Awesome!

**The Bear 79** · 02-11-2013, 07:45 AM

Originally Posted by terraj

Intense cardio for 20 mins, 3 times a week is the first thing to do, this will drop your numbers straight away. Much better idea than taking med or supps...

Again, cardio is king.

Cute pup T.

**The Bear 79** · 02-11-2013, 05:22 PM

Bump

**TMan96** · 02-11-2013, 06:58 PM

For those of you that mentioned cialis to control bp.. How much are you taking a day?

**The Bear 79** · 02-11-2013, 07:05 PM

Originally Posted by TMan96

For those of you that mentioned cialis to control bp.. How much are you taking a day?

Most generally 5 - 10 mg/eod will suffice.

**ppwc1985** · 02-11-2013, 08:47 PM

Yep what bear said, his post turned me on to it and I started using it. Most days in between 5-10 mg and has made a huge difference in my bp. Lowest it has been in about 5 years.

**Soar** · 02-11-2013, 09:02 PM

Originally Posted by ppwc1985

Yep what bear said, his post turned me on to it and I started using it. Most days in between 5-10 mg and has made a huge difference in my bp. Lowest it has been in about 5 years.

Started my protocol yesterday 5mg morning 5mg nightly. Hoping it helps.

**kelkel** · 02-11-2013, 09:18 PM

Exactly ^^. 5mg twice per day, say noon and bed time will keep blood levels constant.

Re Niacin like hankdiesel touched on:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12873710

I also had a conversation, actually today, with anabolicdoc who is one of our newer members and also an MD, who recommended it. Extended release 250mg - 500mg at bedtime and then you can slowly titrate up.

**Soar** · 02-11-2013, 09:23 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Exactly ^^. 5mg twice per day, say noon and bed time will keep blood levels constant.

Though with the liquid cia from AR-R its hard to get dosages correct. Give or take a few mg.

**ppwc1985** · 02-12-2013, 02:30 AM

I use ar-r , it's not hard to get close to exact. You may be off a few mcg's but not mg. besides that a little more or less not gonna hurt you.?

**The Bear 79** · 02-17-2013, 03:12 PM

Bump. I'd still like to see these protocols suggested in cycle advice's.............

**warmouth** · 02-17-2013, 04:36 PM

Originally Posted by The Bear 79

Bump. I'd still like to see these protocols suggested in cycle advice's.............

Nature Made has a new supplement that has helped me tremendously Bear. I was referred to it by a vauled member here when my total cholesterol was 400. It needs to be supplemented with CoQ10, but let me tell you......it works! I don't do cardio (I should) and take 3 grams of fish oil a day. I just didn't want to get on statins. But my latest BW had my total cholesterol at 229! Yes, it is still high, but it is substantially less than it was 3 months ago.
Ive been on BP meds since I was 15. Doctor just added a beta blocker. All is getting better.

**The Bear 79** · 02-17-2013, 04:41 PM

Originally Posted by warmouth

Nature Made has a new supplement that has helped me tremendously Bear. I was referred to it by a vauled member here when my total cholesterol was 400. It needs to be supplemented with CoQ10, but let me tell you......it works! I don't do cardio (I should) and take 3 grams of fish oil a day. I just didn't want to get on statins. But my latest BW had my total cholesterol at 229! Yes, it is still high, but it is substantially less than it was 3 months ago.
Ive been on BP meds since I was 15. Doctor just added a beta blocker. All is getting better.

Outstanding.

"Nature Made".......is that the name of it or is it called something else & produced by the company Nature Made?

**kolaking** · 02-17-2013, 04:42 PM

Originally Posted by bobdurden

Hey guys,
I have a BP monitor at home that I use occasionally just to satisfy my curiosity. I'm usually averaging around 120/70. My question is, what would you guys recommend for a person to have on hand in case things start getting a bit out of control while on cycle?

I'm not talking supplements or diet changes, but something with a more immediate impact on BP. I was thinking about searching around online and ordering an ACE like Lisinopril, but these usually take a couple weeks to have an effect. I noticed that some of you guys have been taking cial from AR-R and as a side effect, it's lowered your BP. Does Cial seem like a logical way to approach the situation? From my understanding the effects are rather quick and has a long half life(3 days).

What do you guys think?

You shouldn't really get that far of a swing, however the BP medication Clonodine @ 1 or 2mg will bring it down quickly. Like most others I use the Cialis at 20mg eod and my levels stay around 120-127/ 70-80 am & pm.

**warmouth** · 02-17-2013, 05:13 PM

Originally Posted by The Bear 79

Outstanding.

"Nature Made".......is that the name of it or is it called something else & produced by the company Nature Made?

Sorry. I cant believe I missed that. It is called "Choleseroff". It is full of natural statin-like compounds. Easy to take and easy to remeber. Its always worth a shot if lipids get high.

**The Bear 79** · 02-17-2013, 05:23 PM

Originally Posted by warmouth

Sorry. I cant believe I missed that. It is called "Choleseroff". It is full of natural statin-like compounds. Easy to take and easy to remeber. Its always worth a shot if lipids get high.

Thank you Brother.

**The Bear 79** · 02-17-2013, 05:24 PM

Originally Posted by kolaking

You shouldn't really get that far of a swing, however the BP medication Clonodine @ 1 or 2mg will bring it down quickly. Like most others I use the Cialis at 20mg eod and my levels stay around 120-127/ 70-80 am & pm.

Can this compound be found on the black market?

**Java Man** · 02-17-2013, 05:32 PM

Originally Posted by bobdurden

Hey guys,
I have a BP monitor at home that I use occasionally just to satisfy my curiosity. I'm usually averaging around 120/70. My question is, what would you guys recommend for a person to have on hand in case things start getting a bit out of control while on cycle?

I'm not talking supplements or diet changes, but something with a more immediate impact on BP. I was thinking about searching around online and ordering an ACE like Lisinopril, but these usually take a couple weeks to have an effect. I noticed that some of you guys have been taking cial from AR-R and as a side effect, it's lowered your BP. Does Cial seem like a logical way to approach the situation? From my understanding the effects are rather quick and has a long half life(3 days).

What do you guys think?

That post piqued my interest too. Have not heard of this use for ED drugs, nor did my doc bring it up when discussing my borderline HBP and what I should do about it. I'm going to talk to him about it next appt. Are there any MD's on this board?? I suppose they wouldn't be able to say so, in case someone accused them of giving medical advice on a BB. I'll just assume that there are some. Writing style and language usage could be a giveaway :wink:

**GhostOfRome** · 02-17-2013, 07:40 PM

My question regards to the fact is it water retention that causes the blood pressure increase and estro or from high test levels alone? Also cholesterol, is it any form of injection or just the amount?

**kelkel** · 02-17-2013, 07:49 PM

Originally Posted by kelkel

Exactly ^^. 5mg twice per day, say noon and bed time will keep blood levels constant.

Re Niacin like hankdiesel touched on:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12873710

I also had a conversation, actually today, with anabolicdoc who is one of our newer members and also an MD, who recommended it. Extended release 250mg - 500mg at bedtime and then you can slowly titrate up.

Follow up to the above. Read this link fella's:

http://www.lef.org/magazine/mag2007/mar2007_atd_01.htm

**kelkel** · 02-17-2013, 07:53 PM

Originally Posted by Soar

Started my protocol yesterday 5mg morning 5mg nightly. Hoping it helps.

With it's half-life it would be better at say noon and bedtime...

**MickeyKnox** · 02-27-2013, 09:56 PM

Giving this a little nudge..

**MickeyKnox** · 03-02-2013, 07:48 PM

For The Bear..

**MickeyKnox** · 03-04-2013, 11:15 PM

And for you BP..

**APIs** · 03-05-2013, 09:40 AM

I take Atacand 24 mgs per day for control of both BP & for management of Migraine Headaches. I've recently started taking Cialis 5 mgs ED and it too seems to be helping with the BP. Currently fighting with insurance to make them cover the daily Cialis. My Doc makes me write a Blood Pressure log twice a day for two weeks about 3 times per year to help make sure that BP levels are in check. I've found that taking NSAIDs (Advil, Aleve) can also raise my BP if taken over an extended period for injuries etc. For cholesterol, I'm on Crestor 5 mgs @ 3 x per week which keeps my Lipids good.

**Java Man** · 03-10-2013, 05:21 PM

I don't generally give cycle advice so bears original intention for this thread not withstanding it is very interesting and I'm learning a lot

Bump! UDCA and PDE5 inhibitors are new ideas to me. Thanks guys and gals.

**optionsdude** · 03-11-2013, 12:29 AM

I have no faith in electronic BP monitors. I also found this info on taurine http://www.livestrong.com/article/45...lood-pressure/ My BP kept reading high on my home electronic BP monitor but when I went to donate it was 120/76 and when I went to dr for physical it was 118/72. I had been taking taurine while on albuterol and just kept it in my supplement regiment after reading this article when I thought taurine was raising my BP. But it was just a crappy electronic BP monitor BP is fine.