Test prop vs Test ethanate for first cycle

[toilet]

I know there have been a few threads on these canvassing the various differences but I would just like clarification on a few points:

- Would it be correct to say that the less time you spend on cycle the higher the chances of recovery and thus the safer the cycle is. i.e it is advantageous to have your natural test production shut down for as little time as possible.

Does this make prop a safer choice given the cycle length is shorter OR would the following be correct;

- Test E cycle = 12 weeks. Test doesn't kick in till week 4 thus shut down time is only 8 weeks.
- Prop cycle = 8 weeks and 8 weeks of shut down time.


Then again you start PCT after prop almost immediately whereas with E you wait 2 weeks so that should mean prop is the safest option?

Other factors;

- prop leads to less bloat which is good if you want lean gains and don't want to hold water weight.
- downside of prop is EOD injections and painful injections which I assume is worth it if prop is indeed safer (would like members input here with regard to the pain of EOD injections and the discomfort as I have no first hand experience - just want to know if it is worth it for a safer cycle).

Also since prop is a shorter cycle and if you run AI and HCG on cycle then you would save money because you would have to use less? is that correct?

I am also thinking about running finasteride on cycle (even though I have all my hair and do not even know if I am even predisposed to MPB simply because I think it is too big of a risk). Now this is quite expensive so a shorter cycle would save money here again (or would you not need to take it till week 4 if on a E cycle because there would be no DHT uptake yet?).

Sorry for the lengthy post and protracted reasoning. If someone with experience could please assess the validity of the above statements ( as this is just what I have gathered from reading the forums) and post any other arguments for/against prop or ethanate that would be very much welcome. Thanks.

[Fcarey32]

I feel the propionate is better for a first timer. It's easier to adjust the dosages if what they're administering is cause many sides or wanna stop due to sides. It's out of your system much faster. I feel it's also more motivating to the first timer. The results are more evident much quicker. Just my .02 but either is a good choice to be ran independently for a first timer.

[jimmyinkedup]

Keep it simple. Test E , inj mon and thurs

[Flacco]

Ive only used 1 type of Prop that doesn't give bad PIP. I'm sure there are many out there. Its all in how they brew it/ and the BA/BB ratios. The chances of getting Prop that hurts are high from my personal experience. For someone who hasn't felt the PIP before, it could be extremely discouraging. Sometimes it literally feels like getting hit in the ass/shoulder/leg with a tire iron. Hard to work through if you haven't felt it before. I also feel that for a first cycle, Test E or cyp is a better choice bc 3 months gives you a nice amount of time to consistantly stay in good training/eating habits (which you should have developed already). Personally, in past short/burst cycles... I've tended to "fall off" get lazy right after I come off, which in turn led me to loose most if not all my gains. Go for a longer ester first to get into and stay with good habits.

[panntastic]

Keep it simple. Test E , inj mon and thurs

This ^^^^
For simple reason the prop ED or Eod pinning schedule can get old and tiring very quickly for a first cycle

[Capebuffalo]

You did a lot of good research and you are correct. If you don't have a problem with the pinning frequency go with the prop.

But as mentioned above for the first timed or e are the norm for that reason.

[crazy mike]

Keep it simple. Test E , inj mon and thurs

This ^^^^
For simple reason the prop ED or Eod pinning schedule can get old and tiring very quickly for a first cycle

Pinning ED or EOD can get real old fast. Especially for the newbie. Also you have a more likelihood of mental addiction thinking you need that shot EOD to get to the Gym. I have witnessed this. Also when a virgin you have more possibility of a bad expaeience, wanting a break and missing days , thus a roller coaster effect.

When talking about money and that concern, I believe you will find Pro @ EOD will cost more.

A beginner need not be so dependent on immediate effect and gains , injection by injection but rather inject once or twice a week and Concentrated on diet, gym and rest. Planning workouts etc.. Focus on working with your body not with the injection.

Last in the LONG run I always get and maintain better gains with the long esters. That should be the base and a beginner is all about the base line, stability, and consistency. Many years and cycles ahead to plug in and out short esters. You cannot rush the end post cycle gains by rushing the beginning gains which will be mostly water. ...crazy mike

[magic32]

Enth.
For the above cited reasons. Plus, the slight long ester water retention is actually a welcomed addition in the first cycle for a few reasons including greater: size, strength, esteem, etc. You'll have plenty of time to specialize in subsequent cycles, enjoy your twice wkly shots while you can!

[AZGOLDSMEMBER86]

Keep it simple. Test E , inj mon and thurs

Yes ^^what he said

[toilet]

hmm but prop at EOD works out 3.5 times a week and test E is twice a week. so nearly pinning twice as much...

Having taken onboard the above concerns;

- If i were to take test E I would probably have to limit my sodium because summer is coming up here in december and water weight would be an unwelcome addition as far as I am concerned.

As far as the point about training and diet - I am 100% dedicated to that now so the type of cycle i take shouldn't influence that.

Mike; you mentioned that people often rely on the injections to get themselves to the gym when on prop - do they give you some kind of a boost akin to a preworkout effect or what? Not sure I understand that point.

With regard to some blends of prop not hurting; guess I can't count on that so I'll have to take the pain. But if it feels like youve been punched hard wouldn't that inimically impact your time in the gym. I cant imagine squatting too effectively if i feel like i just got rammed in the quads or glute (or whever you inject I haven't researched that far yet)...


Though having taken all that on board safety is my number one priority - thus despite the drawbacks of prop it must then be the better option?

[toilet]

one more question;
with regards to inject sites - i havent looked into this but can i just do it in the glute all the time or would i have to alternate sites with prop or also with ethanate. Any insight as to that

[Chx beach 79]

Prop is for advanced users not beginners! Start with test e or c. Keep it simple. You don't roller coasting hormones on your first cycle. Good luck! Also if you have your AI dialed in water shouldn't be a issue...

[toilet]

can you please explain to me the roller coasting hormones bit. thanks.

[Chx beach 79]

can you please explain to me the roller coasting hormones bit. thanks.

Your testosterone will constantly be going up and down, it doesn't stay even unless you pin every single day. Even every other day it will fluctuate a bit. The longer esters e and c climb slowly, stay even and leave your body slowly. It is by far a better choice for beginners.
.

[dogtags]

its 90% likely you WILL have a prob with PIP on your first cycle injecting at the frequency that you would with prop. Use Test E, get that muscle used to bein pinned then save the prop for another cycle. You could be in for HELL going from virgin muscle to pin cushion, ease into it.

[toilet]

Your testosterone will constantly be going up and down, it doesn't stay even unless you pin every single day. Even every other day it will fluctuate a bit. The longer esters e and c climb slowly, stay even and leave your body slowly. It is by far a better choice for beginners.
.

Thanks Beach. What is the practical significance of the test level fluctuating so much? Does this result in mood swings or what exactly? And i take it pinning ED is not a good idea?

Test E seems better but for the fact that your body is shut down longer. I am really only planning on doing one or two cycles so that is my concern there. Is the fact that test e has you shut down longer quite insignificant in terms of recovery compared to a prop cycle.

Allright dogtag. Any insight into injection sites etc or could someone point me where the forum discusses this stuff. thanks

[Chx beach 79]

It will be shutdown the same length of time because you will stop injecting earlier with longer ester test.

The ups and downs can make it harder to control estrogen and will effect overall gains and yes it will effect mood in most cases. Amongst other things. It's always better to be level.

[toilet]

Okay so if i do test E should i try kick start it with something or not bother? Becuase I would hate to inject myself for 4 weeks only to get bloods done and find I had bunk gear.

Can you get in trouble for getting bloods done and coming back at say 2000 ng/dl when steroids are illegal?

and if i started test e then I wouldnt need finisteride and hcg and arimdex until week 4 would i?

[JohnnyVegas]

I think all your research (which is AWESOME to see) has you over thinking this.

You aren't going to get really bloated on Prop. Use an AI to keep your E2 in line and you will be fine. Non-issue.

The longer cycles on longer esters aren't really going to be doing more damage. Non-issue.

The hormone level fluctuations won't be an issue if you inject on the correct schedule.

Bottom line: you aren't going to see a huge difference on Prop vs. Enth/Cyp. The advantage of short esters if faster ramp up and down (faster to PCT) and you get that at the expense of injecting more often.

A lot of guys have trouble injecting in the beginning and you don't want to be two weeks into a Prop cycle and dreading the next 20 injections.

Go to a private lab and pay rather than going through you usual doctor for ALL on cycle blood work.

[toilet]

Thank you Johnny.

Think I will try test E then. Just need to formulate my cycle then try source everything.

WIth regard to private labs; I know steroids are illegal and if they test you mid cycle do they do anything about that and inform anyone. I'm guessing not due to a doctors fiduciary duty to a client - must remain confidential?

And sorry to keep restating myself; but since test E kicks in week 4 does that mean I start HCG , AI and finisteride week4 too?

[crazy mike]

Now I was away and glad that they explained better than I. But just as the others were saying your hormones will be roller coasting and that can, in some cases give you energy and or a lift. I can say It has for me and so that's why I mention it. Not that I fear that people will get off and then become addicts, but just mentally not consistent for at least that cycle. This as I said I have experiences , and Yes I have seen in a group stetting. Patience and concentration and level hormones running is always best for the newbie.

The thought of injection when and it they get sore will not be a good promoter to concentration. Remember your body doesn't know WTF is going on the first 1 or 2 cycles even if you think you do. Prop sometimes also can have a bite depending on the UGL.

For me, I find little difference with water retention with either or. Diet is key !!
Better to learn about and get to know your body in regard to pinning with a smooth Cyp or Enanthate oil just 2 x week. ...crazy mike

[toilet]

Sweet as. Ill just keep sodium low as **** so I dont bloat.

[crazy mike]

And so my man "toilet" have you made a defined and final decision on your cycle?
Wondering where you ended up with your thinking. Are you ready to lay it out for us to see. Not for critiquing. But to give us an update ? ...crazy mike

[toilet]

Well I had decided test e but then was talking to my friend at the gym and he's on prop and told me that the injection pain that everyone is telling me about Is way overemphasised and it's not that bad at all. So now I am confused.


My current problem is researching hcg . From a quick google search it seems some women employ an hcg diet whereby they take hcg drops (I'm going to assume its not very concentrated) and eat 500 calories a day.
So was wondering if I could use that hcg or can I just pm for a source on here or something even though I'm from New Zealand. Not sure how all that stuff works. When I search hcg in the search bar nothing comes up.

Though I have read a few threads on it here and the consensus was to take it during cycle but then I went and read the steroid profile on it and they said to take it pct as long as you discontinue it 2 weeks before stopping nolvadex . So I think I might have to make a thread on hcg to sort something out because its just confusing me.


But at the moment leaning towards prop. Maybe my mate had one of those good blends that doesn't cause pip

[Aziz]

Well I had decided test e but then was talking to my friend at the gym and he's on prop and told me that the injection pain that everyone is telling me about Is way overemphasised and it's not that bad at all. So now I am confused.


My current problem is researching hcg . From a quick google search it seems some women employ an hcg diet whereby they take hcg drops (I'm going to assume its not very concentrated) and eat 500 calories a day.
So was wondering if I could use that hcg or can I just pm for a source on here or something even though I'm from New Zealand. Not sure how all that stuff works. When I search hcg in the search bar nothing comes up.

Though I have read a few threads on it here and the consensus was to take it during cycle but then I went and read the steroid profile on it and they said to take it pct as long as you discontinue it 2 weeks before stopping nolvadex . So I think I might have to make a thread on hcg to sort something out because its just confusing me.


But at the moment leaning towards prop. Maybe my mate had one of those good blends that doesn't cause pip

toilet man just stick to test e for the first cycle and then go ahead and use test p for the second.

[toilet]

Alright hope I don't bloat

[Chx beach 79]

Take your AI and bloating should be minimal.

[crazy mike]

Well I had decided test e but then was talking to my friend at the gym and he's on prop and told me that the injection pain that everyone is telling me about Is way overemphasised and it's not that bad at all. So now I am confused.


My current problem is researching hcg . From a quick google search it seems some women employ an hcg diet whereby they take hcg drops (I'm going to assume its not very concentrated) and eat 500 calories a day.
So was wondering if I could use that hcg or can I just pm for a source on here or something even though I'm from New Zealand. Not sure how all that stuff works. When I search hcg in the search bar nothing comes up.

Though I have read a few threads on it here and the consensus was to take it during cycle but then I went and read the steroid profile on it and they said to take it pct as long as you discontinue it 2 weeks before stopping nolvadex . So I think I might have to make a thread on hcg to sort something out because its just confusing me.


But at the moment leaning towards prop. Maybe my mate had one of those good blends that doesn't cause pip

Woooo, blends...not for me. Should investigate that. If you are talking multi ester blends like test 450 / or 400, trash a waste of money. Common sense prevails on that one. Also, PIP from Prop is not bad, it can be bad, sometimes is bad and the more you have to inject (intervals) the more chance you have a painful site on top of another. Just saying. Toilet your are over thinking this whole Ester thing. You also wanted the biggest bang for your buck. Do the math on that. ...Good luck ...crazy mike

[crazy mike]

toilet man just stick to test e for the first cycle and then go ahead and use test p for the second.

When it's all said and done, he'll be glad he did the E or if he doesn't he'll wish he did. So much discussion over not so much. At this point the Q's of what ester with the Test has been over discussed and I think someone wants attention. It's a moot point now Aziz. Even you see that. Oh, hi Aziz !! ...crazy mike

[toilet]

Right test e it is. What about the hcg issues?^

[dominicanbjj]

prop.

[Twack]

Toilet listen to these guys. I'm on my first cycle now and pip sucks with test e!!! Nothing to do with the gear just the fact that you have to get the whole thing down and keep a steady hand does not happen overnight. (At least for me it hasn't)
It all sounded pretty easy to me until i had a pin in right delt and had to aspirate with my left hand while not moving the pin in/out/sideways. (I'm right handed) if I was pinning every ED or EOD I don't think I would have been able to keep up with the cycle and still work out.

[JohnnyVegas]

Don't fall for any of the hCG drop crap. That is not hCG and contains no hormones. Real hCG is a controlled substance that you will only be able to get from a doctor, pharmacy or shady place...but not Walmart or any other place on the planet that sells it over the counter.

[toilet]

Twack I won't have to inject myself so hopefully I won't have that problem.

Johnny; do I need hcg for straight test vecuse I have no idea where to get it. Can it be sourced off this forum or what

[toilet]

It's not like the doctor would give it to me

[ksingh93]

twack i won't have to inject myself so hopefully i won't have that problem.

Johnny; do i need hcg for straight test vecuse i have no idea where to get it. Can it be sourced off this forum or what

yeh u need hcg to keep the boys their og size .get it from the source u got ur test

[JohnnyVegas]

Twack I won't have to inject myself so hopefully I won't have that problem.

Johnny; do I need hcg for straight test vecuse I have no idea where to get it. Can it be sourced off this forum or what

There are places that sell it but I don't know how their quality is. It cannot be sold as a research chem so AR-R doesn't have it. Maybe someone else will chime in, I am not sure what the rules are about that sort of thing although I would think it falls under the usual sourcing rules since it is a controlled substance.

[MajorPectorial]

Test e. N I use it for the base of every cycle too. I get quite literally zero sides. ESP when the dose is upped. I'm sure if u search a bit deeper on Google u can find a hcg provider. Just bounce round the net a bit doing several requests.

[toilet]

Test source doesn't have any hcg . Where I am from it is legal apparently after a quick google search but I don't know if I can trust some random shit on the Internet so was wondering if anyone here had a source.

Ill get nolvadex and arimadex and clomid off
Ar-r . Just need to find some damn hcg

[crazy mike]

dominicanbjj;[/B]6602032]prop.

Hey Toilet. Ya see here's what I mean. Everyone has spent so much time with you and you came around to the best decision and advice from he vets and now. Here out of the blue comes this 22 year old kid and he jumps in out of NOWHERE and tells you Prop.

Now I checked out all his posts and He is clueless as to what he is doing. Did some orals and some BS crap cycle etc..

I make that statement and I'll let it go and ask you if you want to verify my opinion, go read all his posts and Q's and history. Now I have to go to bed, but This is why I came out when you had done it. We already have gotten somewhere and now this crap. I'm like What!!?? Who is this at this juncture. Ha!
Have a good night man. Good decision with Test E....crazy mike