2nd Cycle Advice.....

**petemitchell30** · 02-01-2017, 12:38 PM

1st cycle was a success, and I ran tren at 125mg EOD plus my TRT. Gained size, strength, got a little leaner, and kept most of my gains. I did not like the bacne I got from it, or how my liver and cholesterol levels were slightly elevated, or how my T3 and T4 levels decreased below the normal range.

So, instead of running tren for 8 weeks, couldn't I'm thinking of doing this:
Week 1-12 - Test Cyp
Week 1-6 - Oral Winstrol
Week 7-14 - Anavar

Questions
1. Does "Moon Face" from high test come from elevated E2? So long as I keep my E2 in the 20's, will that eliminate moon face or does high level test cause water retention via other means as well?
2. Would this cycle accomplish essentially the same thing as my tren cycle did?

Thoughts??

**Nephets** · 02-01-2017, 01:01 PM

what are your stats pete

**petemitchell30** · 02-01-2017, 01:19 PM

6'4" 230, if I had to guess, bodyfat somewhere between 10-14%. Pretty lean but not ripped like the guys on stage at NPC. 35 yrs old, still decently athletic, can bench close to 400, can still dunk a basketball....

**magic32** · 02-01-2017, 02:17 PM

Originally Posted by petemitchell30

Questions
1. Does "Moon Face" from high test come from elevated E2? So long as I keep my E2 in the 20's, will that eliminate moon face or does high level test cause water retention via other means as well?
2. Would this cycle accomplish essentially the same thing as my tren cycle did?

Thoughts??

1. The moon/bloated face is a side effect of elevated general estrogen levels, not a specific form or type. This can be managed with AIs, start with low A-dex amounts and increase as necessary.

2. Cycle benefits are largely dependent upon dietary and training factors. So to improve upon your prior results, you should make adjustments to your recent practices, i.e., protein amount, total cals, cardio amount, eating frequency, sodium and sugar intake, etc. It is within these variables that you'll find enhanced results.

**evanescent** · 02-01-2017, 09:48 PM

You were doing 400mg+ of tren a week on your first cycle and bacne was your biggest issue?

**petemitchell30** · 02-01-2017, 10:05 PM

Originally Posted by evanescent

You were doing 400mg+ of tren a week on your first cycle and bacne was your biggest issue?

Essentially yes.

Thoughts guys?

**songdog** · 02-01-2017, 10:15 PM

Not the smartest move I have ever seen.

**evanescent** · 02-02-2017, 05:44 AM

Not to play devil's advocate (Okay.. maybe a little) but if you tolerated tren that well, why would you switch?

**petemitchell30** · 02-02-2017, 08:55 AM

Originally Posted by evanescent

Not to play devil's advocate (Okay.. maybe a little) but if you tolerated tren that well, why would you switch?

I didn't like the acne, and I'm reluctant, even unwilling, to run accutane and tren together. Moreover, I think (which is why I'm asking) I could accomplish the same thing with milder AAS.

Also, I don't think Tren is all its hyped up to be. The guys on this board act like it magic juice, but in order to reap the magic you must endure all of these excruciating side effects. I respectfully disagree based on my experience. Technically this isn't my FIRST cycle. I've run several prior, but none in the last 7 or 8 years. So deeming the tren cycle my "1st" is a bit misleading.

Still love to see thoughts pertaining to my actual topic and direct questions.

**songdog** · 02-02-2017, 02:12 PM

Originally Posted by petemitchell30

I didn't like the acne, and I'm reluctant, even unwilling, to run accutane and tren together. Moreover, I think (which is why I'm asking) I could accomplish the same thing with milder AAS.

Also, I don't think Tren is all its hyped up to be. The guys on this board act like it magic juice, but in order to reap the magic you must endure all of these excruciating side effects. I respectfully disagree based on my experience. Technically this isn't my FIRST cycle. I've run several prior, but none in the last 7 or 8 years. So deeming the tren cycle my "1st" is a bit misleading.

Still love to see thoughts pertaining to my actual topic and direct questions.

I have said over and over again tren isn't the miracle drug people claim it to be and running tren cycles back too back is really asking for trouble.

**Back In Black** · 02-02-2017, 09:05 AM

I like to run var for 10 weeks so why not just do that? Your diet will dictate results in any event.

Oh, and tren can be magic and doesn't have to be run high for it to be that. Again, if the diet is off the results won't be as good and people love making up for in gear what they lack in diet.

I think you will find that Magic has covered the relevant points in post #4

**petemitchell30** · 02-02-2017, 12:25 PM

Originally Posted by Back In Black

I like to run var for 10 weeks so why not just do that? Your diet will dictate results in any event.

Oh, and tren can be magic and doesn't have to be run high for it to be that. Again, if the diet is off the results won't be as good and people love making up for in gear what they lack in diet.

I think you will find that Magic has covered the relevant points in post #4

Funny you say that, because although I didn't post it I've actually contemplated a variety only cycle. If you wouldnt mind, woukd you please share your anavar only dosage and gains? I've done that before, albeit at only 50mg ED, and the gains were....eh.

We'll have to agree to disagree about the Tren, I made great gains on it, but no more than I was making on the cycles I ran as a younger man. I'm sure it affects everyone at least slightly differently.

I do appreciate magics answer! Thabk you Sir. When I post something on the board, the more opinions rendered the better, so I genuinely appreciate anyone who offers their thoughts on the subject at hand.

**Back In Black** · 02-02-2017, 01:03 PM

I haven't run var only. I wouldn't. For me test is best. I have run bar atv70-80mg ED but it really depends on the quality of your var and how much test I guess.

**petemitchell30** · 02-02-2017, 01:23 PM

So, if I understand correctly, in your opinion high dose Var (100mg ED) along with my TRT is not a good idea?

If you don't mind me asking, how much test did you run along with your 70 and 80mg of Var, and what/how much gains did you experience?

**Back In Black** · 02-02-2017, 02:25 PM

Originally Posted by petemitchell30

So, if I understand correctly, in your opinion high dose Var (100mg ED) along with my TRT is not a good idea?

If you don't mind me asking, how much test did you run along with your 70 and 80mg of Var, and what/how much gains did you experience?

Var shouldn't be run alone. TRT dose of test means it isn't alone. If you haven't run a higher test cycle for a while then up your test to 500mg and run the var 10 weeks @75mg per day.

It's a cycle I would personally use as a recomp or small cut.