Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 40 of 43
Like Tree27Likes

Thread: Cycle Critique

  1. #1
    MToption2's Avatar
    MToption2 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    261

    Cycle Critique

    Still playing around with dosages.

    First cycle: (during cycle)
    Tren E (Don't want to pin as much even if Tren A is reportedly more effective)
    Aromasin 12.5mg ED
    hCG /hMG 500-1000 i.u. EOD / 75 i.u. E2D

    After discontinuation of Tren:
    Aromasin (Same as on cycle)
    hCG/hMG (Same as on cycle)
    Clomid 50-100mg

    Run that for a while and taper off.

    Couple questions as well:
    1. Why is Tren not recommended for first timers?
    2. Why would I need to run Test with Tren? Theoretically, the exogenous Test shouldn't provide any benefits the hCG and hMG induced endogenous testosterone can't, right?
    3. Liver values seems like the only serious side effect too worry about since I also plan on continuing low-dose Accutane. So if during my monthly lab work, my liver numbers are too high, can I transition over to Test-E instead since it's "lighter" on organ functions? I understand the anabolic response won't be the same. Silymarin as liver aid and Curcumin (SubQ) as liver aid, cardio (blood pressure, cholesterol), etc aid.
    4. Will there still be concerns with prolactin even if the estrogen is "dealt" with by Aromasin?
    5. Can I cut out the hCG if I'm running hMG?

  2. #2
    Back In Black's Avatar
    Back In Black is online now Beach Bodybuilder - HOF
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Blighty
    Posts
    17,067
    Read this

    http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...rst-cycle.html

    And this

    http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...all-costs.html

    Why do you think you want to run tren at all let alone on your first cycle?

    Tren will shut down your natural test production almost immediately. How do you think you will cope with no testosterone ?

  3. #3
    Silabolin is offline Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    3,735
    Quote Originally Posted by Back In Black View Post
    Read this

    http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...rst-cycle.html

    And this

    http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...all-costs.html

    Why do you think you want to run tren at all let alone on your first cycle?

    Tren will shut down your natural test production almost immediately. How do you think you will cope with no testosterone?
    His point is why wouldnt hcg do the job?. Tren doesnt shut the balls. It shuts down the pituary. But the body will get another lh clone from HCG which will tell the balls to produce testosterone .

    And this we know works cause the balls pretty much stay on size, not matter cycle, when we use hcg.

    My argue would be, the hcg would not produce enough test. Below a trtdose.
    But with SARMs yes.
    With tren..possible but doubtfull.

    Hope someone are able to explain a little better than BiB and not link to the stickies all the time. Relax BiB..ut the man...u do a great job:-)

  4. #4
    Back In Black's Avatar
    Back In Black is online now Beach Bodybuilder - HOF
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Blighty
    Posts
    17,067
    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    His point is why wouldnt hcg do the job?. Tren doesnt shut the balls. It shuts down the pituary. But the body will get another lh clone from HCG which will tell the balls to produce testosterone .

    And this we know works cause the balls pretty much stay on size, not matter cycle, when we use hcg.

    My argue would be, the hcg would not produce enough test. Below a trtdose.
    But with SARMs yes.
    With tren..possible but doubtfull.

    Hope someone are able to explain a little better than BiB and not link to the stickies all the time. Relax BiB..ut the man...u do a great job:-)
    Fvck you dickhead, his point is he wants to run tren only as a first cycle and doesn't want to run HCG.

  5. #5
    Silabolin is offline Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    3,735
    Quote Originally Posted by Back In Black View Post

    Fvck you dickhead, his point is he wants to run tren only as a first cycle and doesn't want to run HCG.
    OMG. ..and he calls me names?...well, i have done my time in those debates.

    So I will hit the ball not the man.

    His point is NOT trying to run tren without HCG or test.
    He asks if hcg will do as a testbooster. At least give a trtdose.

    He also wonders if hcg can be dropped if he do that other hxx-stuff. Which i dont know what is but i expect it works like HCG.

    Good questions and bibs attitude can be explained from a 3. party factor i guess.
    Bib is usually professional.

  6. #6
    Back In Black's Avatar
    Back In Black is online now Beach Bodybuilder - HOF
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Blighty
    Posts
    17,067
    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    OMG. ..and he calls me names?...well, i have done my time in those debates.

    So I will hit the ball not the man.

    His point is NOT trying to run tren without HCG or test.
    He asks if hcg will do as a testbooster. At least give a trtdose.

    He also wonders if hcg can be dropped if he do that other hxx-stuff. Which i dont know what is but i expect it works like HCG.

    Good questions and bibs attitude can be explained from a 3. party factor i guess.
    Bib is usually professional.
    We are a safe cycling community. Occasionally we let unsafe cycles in. 'Nuff said

  7. #7
    Silabolin is offline Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    3,735
    Quote Originally Posted by Back In Black View Post

    We are a safe cycling community. Occasionally we let unsafe cycles in. 'Nuff said
    Ofcourse but u totally lost the point with this one. Admit it before the guys se it.

  8. #8
    NACH3's Avatar
    NACH3 is offline VET
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Baking chicken
    Posts
    19,418
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    Ofcourse but u totally lost the point with this one. Admit it before the guys se it.
    Stop Sil your wrong!

  9. #9
    Silabolin is offline Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    3,735
    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3 View Post

    Stop Sil your wrong!
    He knows test is a must when doing tren . So he wonders if the test from hcg may be enough.

    A 100% legit and good question.
    Only mr.BB will make me fall back on this one.
    Cause he is pretty much the only knowledgeable without an agenda.

    I dont say its a good idea. But its a good question and pointing to aust is too convinient if you dont know why its a bad idea.

  10. #10
    NACH3's Avatar
    NACH3 is offline VET
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Baking chicken
    Posts
    19,418
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by MToption2 View Post
    Still playing around with dosages.

    First cycle: (during cycle)
    Tren E (Don't want to pin as much even if Tren A is reportedly more effective)
    Aromasin 12.5mg ED
    hCG /hMG 500-1000 i.u. EOD / 75 i.u. E2D

    After discontinuation of Tren:
    Aromasin (Same as on cycle)
    hCG/hMG (Same as on cycle)
    Clomid 50-100mg

    Run that for a while and taper off.

    Couple questions as well:
    1. Why is Tren not recommended for first timers?
    It's anabolic/androgenic rating is 500/500 thecstrongrst ghere is 5x stronger than test - if you can't dial in your E2 which you won't be able to on a first cycle let alone know where the sides are coming from as it is a progestin as well(meaning a DA is needed to control Prolactin!
    2. Why would I need to run Test with Tren? Theoretically, the exogenous Test shouldn't provide any benefits the hCG and hMG induced endogenous testosterone can't, right?
    Wrong! One shot of Tren and your shut down completely no ifs and or buts that and deca are very harsh to recover from .... hCG and HMG is surely the way to go as hCG mimics LH production & HMG is an FSH mimitec! So even in a rest only cycle your HPTA is shut down hence running these analogs! Your still shut down though they just keep functionality over your balls(hCG) and sperm count(HMG)
    3. Liver values seems like the only serious side effect too worry about since I also plan on continuing low-dose Accutane. So if during my monthly lab work, my liver numbers are too high, can I transition over to Test-E instead since it's "lighter" on organ functions? I understand the anabolic response won't be the same. Silymarin as liver aid and Curcumin (SubQ) as liver aid, cardio (blood pressure, cholesterol), etc aid.
    Definitely need to run liver support especially on accutane
    4. Will there still be concerns with prolactin even if the estrogen is "dealt" with by Aromasin?
    Yes... as Prolactin ususally follows high E2 but not in all cases you can have normal E2 values and still get progestenic sides - you need a DA to combat this!
    5. Can I cut out the hCG if I'm running hMG?
    You can but your hCG keeps the testes working(your balls) not HMG / HMG is strictly a spermatozoa analog! In bold and below

    You have lots of reading to do and definitely aren't ready for Tren - I been cycling 3 yrs now on trt and blast when I can - Tren is so toxic it's ridiculous - I'm on my real first cycle of Tren imho... and there's no way I'd even think of staying on that train for more than 6-8wks...

    You need to run a test only cycle to see how you even react to that and thinking hCG or HMG as a test replacement is really not smart - go back and read up on both analogs as they can be used in all cycles but it's got nothing to do with Tren /

    I'd Advise a test only cycle and read the links that BIB put up! You are no where near ready to run Tren no matter all the research you do it's based off using test as a base!

    Btw where's your nolva dex for PCT it should run 6 wks and clomid 4 wks
    Last edited by NACH3; 02-11-2017 at 04:07 AM.

  11. #11
    NACH3's Avatar
    NACH3 is offline VET
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Baking chicken
    Posts
    19,418
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    He knows test is a must when doing tren . So he wonders if the test from hcg may be enough.

    A 100% legit and good question.
    Only mr.BB will make me fall back on this one.
    Cause he is pretty much the only knowledgeable without an agenda.

    I dont say its a good idea. But its a good question and pointing to aust is too convinient if you dont know why its a bad idea.
    Read what I just wrote, Sil... though none of us have an agenda except for safe cycling in this forum and BB will surely agree that's a fact!!! I agree that BB is very knowledgeable and will agree with what I wrote!
    Last edited by NACH3; 02-11-2017 at 04:08 AM.

  12. #12
    Silabolin is offline Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    3,735
    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3 View Post

    Read what I just wrote, Sil... though none of us have an agenda except for safe cycling in this forum and BB will surely agree that's a fact!!! I agree that BB is very knowledgeable and will agree with what I wrote!
    What u wrote i guess most agrees one. But you avoid the main edge like a skinny cat walking on a smal brigde trying to avoid water and like BiB did.
    Why cant we use hcg instead of a trtdose when cycling?

    Time to wake up BB..ur the only one i trust

  13. #13
    NACH3's Avatar
    NACH3 is offline VET
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Baking chicken
    Posts
    19,418
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    What u wrote i guess most agrees one. But you avoid the main edge like a skinny cat walking on a smal brigde trying to avoid water and like BiB did.
    Why cant we use hcg instead of a trtdose when cycling?

    Time to wake up BB..ur the only one i trust
    B/c it's not test just b/c it's a suppressive it's an LH mimitec has nothing to do like bridging with it! You need test simple as that - or we'd all be running hCG monotherapy for trt if it worked that way! Read up Sil! It doesn't work that way - some can get away with hCG monotherapy but most will be on testosterone in the matter of months To a yr... depends on your test levels

    Ps - both BB, Kel, and numbere will hopefully chime in
    Last edited by NACH3; 02-11-2017 at 04:48 AM.

  14. #14
    Silabolin is offline Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    3,735
    aha...so now we are here: student at the carshop: " yo boss, why doesnt this car start?"...boss at the carshop: " because it doesnt start, you silly student."

    no not numbere, he rather cut his rigth arm off than admitting ive got a point on u.....but sure...Kel is good

  15. #15
    Mr.BB's Avatar
    Mr.BB is online now MONITOR
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    HOME
    Posts
    6,745
    People, this guy is not worth it.

    He's the one wanting to do "testosterone for life", which includes accutane for life.

    Claims to be 25 years old, although put in profile 50, my guess is his a 19-20 year old thinking that every problem has a pill as a solution.

    He just started training at 160lbs, probably enjoys drugs more than he should.

    He will just do as he pleases regardless, im not going to waste my time.

  16. #16
    NACH3's Avatar
    NACH3 is offline VET
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Baking chicken
    Posts
    19,418
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    aha...so now we are here: student at the carshop: " yo boss, why doesnt this car start?"...boss at the carshop: " because it doesnt start, you silly student."

    no not numbere, he rather cut his rigth arm off than admitting ive got a point on u.....but sure...Kel is good
    Watch how you talk to staff, Sil... and just b/c you don't like numbere or whatever the problem is there(I'll just say dickstroke has you hating him) he's extremely knowledgeable! Nuff said!

  17. #17
    Silabolin is offline Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    3,735
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    People, this guy is not worth it.

    He's the one wanting to do "testosterone for life", which includes accutane for life.

    Claims to be 25 years old, although put in profile 50, my guess is his a 19-20 year old thinking that every problem has a pill as a solution.

    He just started training at 160lbs, probably enjoys drugs more than he should.

    He will just do as he pleases regardless, im not going to waste my time.
    At least he didnt turn on me. Thanks BB.....guess that will shut up the agandavets. Im satisfied..let me see....next thread...hm...

  18. #18
    NACH3's Avatar
    NACH3 is offline VET
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Baking chicken
    Posts
    19,418
    Blog Entries
    2
    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    At least he didnt turn on me. Thanks BB.....guess that will shut up the agandavets. Im satisfied..let me see....next thread...hm...
    Sil there is no agenda besides safe AAS USE!

  19. #19
    Mr.BB's Avatar
    Mr.BB is online now MONITOR
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    HOME
    Posts
    6,745
    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3 View Post
    Watch how you talk to staff, Sil... and just b/c you don't like numbere or whatever the problem is there(I'll just say dickstroke has you hating him) he's extremely knowledgeable! Nuff said!
    Besides being extremely knowledgeable, Numbere is the only one who has patience for this kind of threads

  20. #20
    Silabolin is offline Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    3,735
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    Besides being extremely knowledgeable, Numbere is the only one who has patience for this kind of threads
    Nevertheless, 25 or 50...Non of you socalled vets and staff managed to nail in the members main question, why will not hcg work as trt on cycle, or better.
    All you saw was the letters -tren and then u flipped out and linked to aust.

    Castlemen !, i need a little help...Obs, bizz, euro, prox, couch, king...please help me convince staff that they may have missed the edge here.
    Last edited by Silabolin; 02-11-2017 at 05:38 AM.

  21. #21
    Back In Black's Avatar
    Back In Black is online now Beach Bodybuilder - HOF
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Location
    Blighty
    Posts
    17,067
    Hcg mono therapy works when it can take your natural test levels up a notch. If your natty test doesn't work Hcg monotherapy won't. Tren makes your natty test not work.

    That's pretty basic but I think it's right. I'm happy to be corrected if not.

    Again, the OP wants to run tren only and asked if he could drop HCG.

    So Sil, what agenda do you think I have?

  22. #22
    Silabolin is offline Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    3,735
    Quote Originally Posted by Back In Black View Post
    Hcg mono therapy works when it can take your natural test levels up a notch. If your natty test doesn't work Hcg monotherapy won't. Tren makes your natty test not work.

    That's pretty basic but I think it's right. I'm happy to be corrected if not.

    Again, the OP wants to run tren only and asked if he could drop HCG.
    So Sil, what agenda do you think I have?
    Basictly what you are saying is that HCG will not work if you use supressive drugs with it. A hilarous suggest. So now Rich Piana is rigth all of a suddon...

    No he asked if he could use hcg OR hxx instead of test impliing he knew that test had do be baseline.

    Your are knowledgeable and very helpsome BiB, no question, but sometimes i feel you (and most other staff) are a little....headstrong.
    Last edited by Silabolin; 02-11-2017 at 05:57 AM.

  23. #23
    NACH3's Avatar
    NACH3 is offline VET
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Location
    Baking chicken
    Posts
    19,418
    Blog Entries
    2
    Sil both BIB AND I explained why in detail why you can't run hCG and HMG in place of test.... simple really

    Your the one missing the point!


    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    Nevertheless, 25 or 50...Non of you socalled vets and staff managed to nail in the members main question, why will not hcg work as trt on cycle, or better.
    All you saw was the letters -tren and then u flipped out and linked to aust.

    Castlemen !, i need a little help...Obs, bizz, euro, prox, couch, king...please help me convince staff that they may have missed the edge here.

  24. #24
    Silabolin is offline Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    3,735
    http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...g-instead.html

    Why cant we have staff like Lemonada8 and gixxerboy1 these days?

    HCG produces test but the test stays in the balls, doesnt help systemic levels ......Wasnt so hard, was it?

    everything was so much better before.....

  25. #25
    numbere is offline RETIRED- Knowledgeable member
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    4,111
    Quote Originally Posted by Silabolin View Post
    http://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-s...g-instead.html

    Why cant we have staff like Lemonada8 and gixxerboy1 these days?

    HCG produces test but the test stays in the balls, doesnt help systemic levels ......Wasnt so hard, was it?

    everything was so much better before.....
    I've learned a lot from Lemonada8 and often read his old posts when I'm bored.

    However, in this case he's wrong.

    Hcg will raise TT along with ITT, this is what makes hcg monotherapy possible.

    Theoretically you can use hcg as a supplement for a test base when stacking but I think it's a horrible idea.

    You'd need to use a lot of hcg and this still might not give you enough test, e2 and dht to feel normal while stacking, especially when using 19 nors.

    Barring competition cycles, I would never suggest someone use less than 50mg of prop EOD and I'm doubtful that hcg would be able to raise your test to that level.

  26. #26
    songdog's Avatar
    songdog is offline ARs TOP DOG ~ MONITOR ~
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    13,515
    The thing we are learning about the human body are changing everyday.This includes how we use aas and get our system going again.But one thing stays the same is if you are running tren you need test.Sil if you can't give safe sound advice on this board I suggest you seek life else where.Beacuse your bashing of staff with your crazy ideas isn't going to fly.

  27. #27
    MToption2's Avatar
    MToption2 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    261
    Quote Originally Posted by NACH3 View Post
    You can but your hCG keeps the testes working(your balls) not HMG / HMG is strictly a spermatozoa analog! In bold and below

    You have lots of reading to do and definitely aren't ready for Tren - I been cycling 3 yrs now on trt and blast when I can - Tren is so toxic it's ridiculous - I'm on my real first cycle of Tren imho... and there's no way I'd even think of staying on that train for more than 6-8wks...

    You need to run a test only cycle to see how you even react to that and thinking hCG or HMG as a test replacement is really not smart - go back and read up on both analogs as they can be used in all cycles but it's got nothing to do with Tren /

    I'd Advise a test only cycle and read the links that BIB put up! You are no where near ready to run Tren no matter all the research you do it's based off using test as a base!

    Btw where's your nolva dex for PCT it should run 6 wks and clomid 4 wks
    Ok thanks for explaining how toxic Tren feels.

    hMG contains both FSH & LH mimickers. Not just LH. But current formulations of hMG probably does not contain enough hCG/LH in it so an extra hCG product is usually taken with it.

    Why is Nolva necessary if an AI is present? Nolva is a estrogen receptor antagonist but if the AI is already blocking excess estrogen, what's the point?

    What would you guess the success rate is when someone runs a successful cycle including PCT back to 100% pre-cycle hormone levels? 60%? 90%?

  28. #28
    MToption2's Avatar
    MToption2 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    261
    Quote Originally Posted by numbere View Post

    You'd need to use a lot of hcg and this still might not give you enough test, e2 and dht to feel normal while stacking, especially when using 19 nors.
    This makes sense. Thanks.

  29. #29
    Marsoc's Avatar
    Marsoc is offline Productive Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Camp lejeune
    Posts
    2,452
    Quote Originally Posted by MToption2 View Post
    Ok thanks for explaining how toxic Tren feels.

    hMG contains both FSH & LH mimickers. Not just LH. But current formulations of hMG probably does not contain enough hCG /LH in it so an extra hCG product is usually taken with it.

    Why is Nolva necessary if an AI is present? Nolva is a estrogen receptor antagonist but if the AI is already blocking excess estrogen, what's the point?

    What would you guess the success rate is when someone runs a successful cycle including PCT back to 100% pre-cycle hormone levels? 60%? 90%?
    Nolvadex and clomid are for pct. not during the cycle .AI is for on cycle along with hcg

  30. #30
    Marsoc's Avatar
    Marsoc is offline Productive Member
    Join Date
    Aug 2016
    Location
    Camp lejeune
    Posts
    2,452
    I also wonder the success rate of people running their first cycle and if they will be 100% normal afterwords..that's why I have everything I need for my first cycle but will probably wait and see what I can make happen with proper scientifically diet along with my kick ass intensity of my training

  31. #31
    MToption2's Avatar
    MToption2 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    261
    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.BB View Post
    People, this guy is not worth it.
    Claims to be 25 years old, although put in profile 50, my guess is his a 19-20 year old thinking that every problem has a pill as a solution.

    He just started training at 160lbs, probably enjoys drugs more than he should.

    He will just do as he pleases regardless, im not going to waste my time.
    None of these statements are true. Many many years ago, when I was in high school, I decided to take weightlifting seriously. In 1 year, I bulked from a measly 130 pounds to 190. I hovered between 175-195 (BF: 20-25%) throughout the rest of high school and college. I worked out intensely during this whole time. After college, my motivation slowly dropped. Maybe only 1-2 gym days a week. I also stopped eating so much as a result so I unintentionally cut down to 150! I'm now 160. Past few months, I worked up back to 3-4 gym days a week. My most important goal from steroids is to increase my appetite!! I can barely get in 2500 calories consistently these days. I refuse to turn to weed to help with appetite. My training style has varied significantly over the years from 0% emphasis on cardio to now a lot more!
    Last edited by MToption2; 02-11-2017 at 01:22 PM.

  32. #32
    MToption2's Avatar
    MToption2 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    261
    Quote Originally Posted by Back In Black View Post
    Read this

    Why do you think you want to run tren at all let alone on your first cycle?

    Tren will shut down your natural test production almost immediately. How do you think you will cope with no testosterone?
    Stickies are helpful! They didn't answer all my questions and they could've been shortened in length considerably but I understand the reason why to elaborate a point.
    Good basic refresh read. Thanks.

  33. #33
    Richard Cabeza's Avatar
    Richard Cabeza is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Cali
    Posts
    418
    Quote Originally Posted by MToption2 View Post
    None of these statements are true. Many many years ago, when I was in high school, I decided to take weightlifting seriously. In 1 year, I bulked from a measly 130 pounds to 190. I hovered between 175-195 (BF: 20-25%) throughout the rest of high school and college. I worked out intensely during this whole time. After college, my motivation slowly dropped. Maybe only 1-2 gym days a week. I also stopped eating so much as a result so I unintentionally cut down to 150! I'm now 160. Past few months, I worked up back to 3-4 gym days a week. My most important goal from steroids is to increase my appetite!! I can barely get in 2500 calories consistently these days. I refuse to turn to weed to help with appetite. My training style has varied significantly over the years from 0% emphasis on cardio to now a lot more!
    Steroids to increase your appetite is the most important goal? 160lbs now but naturally have been 195? .... its not time to use, imho. If you have been bigger naturally and have had a good amount of mass you need to get in the gym more often, train more intense and get your nutrition dialed in, no steroids are going to just bulk you up without these things being in check first, you'd just be wasting money honestly.

    If you need to eat more than eat more, eat good calorie dense foods in smaller portions throughout the day and slowly increase your calories, this will also prevent you from adding too much fat too quickly and it'll be easier to control.

    You say youve been lifting seriously and have seen gains in the past, so seeing gains again naturally shouldn't be too hard, muscle memory is a motherfucker.

    If you are just absolutely deadset on a cycle and absolutely have to run one for whatever crazy reason you've come up with then run a test only cycle, see how your body responds and make those changes to your nutrition and exercise regimen. All that extra shit is only gonna fuck you up and set you back

  34. #34
    Silabolin is offline Banned
    Join Date
    May 2015
    Location
    Norway
    Posts
    3,735
    Quote Originally Posted by songdog View Post
    The thing we are learning about the human body are changing everyday.This includes how we use aas and get our system going again.But one thing stays the same is if you are running tren you need test.Sil if you can't give safe sound advice on this board I suggest you seek life else where.Beacuse your bashing of staff with your crazy ideas isn't going to fly.
    What are you talking about.?..bb was wrong, bib and nach didnt get it. Numbere nailed it and my answer was very close to his. Even before i pulled in old staff.
    Bib was the first to go with names. Calling me dickhead at his first answer.
    Safe sounds???....i never said testbase should be avoided. I just seeked analysys on why hcg wouldnt do the job. Old staff said it wouldnt because the hcgenduced test would stay in the balls. Numbere 10 years later proved them wrong but is concerned it will not produce enough to make u feel good. E2 and dht is also important.
    And that was basictly one of the main questions which bib and nach failed to nail.
    Last edited by Silabolin; 02-11-2017 at 04:02 PM.

  35. #35
    songdog's Avatar
    songdog is offline ARs TOP DOG ~ MONITOR ~
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    13,515
    AAS isnt going to increase your appetite if anything tren will reduce it.And the reason we tell everyone not to run tren as a 1st cycle is beacuse it isn't needed.You are only going to grow so much on each cycle and test will put you there plus some.Tren should really only be use at you 6th or 7th cycle when you start hitting a sticking point.But a lot of people don't listen and they end up finding out wat damage tren can do to your body.And by the way you talk you don't sound like a guy ready too cycle anyway.You are looking for a shortcut!Beacuse if you packed on real mass you wouldn't have lost so much.I know this beacuse trucking kept me away from the gym a long time but I was still a lot bigger than the avg guy and I started out at 165.

  36. #36
    MToption2's Avatar
    MToption2 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    261
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cabeza View Post
    Steroids to increase your appetite is the most important goal? 160lbs now but naturally have been 195? .... its not time to use, imho. If you have been bigger naturally and have had a good amount of mass you need to get in the gym more often, train more intense and get your nutrition dialed in, no steroids are going to just bulk you up without these things being in check first, you'd just be wasting money honestly.

    If you need to eat more than eat more, eat good calorie dense foods in smaller portions throughout the day and slowly increase your calories, this will also prevent you from adding too much fat too quickly and it'll be easier to control.

    You say youve been lifting seriously and have seen gains in the past, so seeing gains again naturally shouldn't be too hard, muscle memory is a motherfucker.

    If you are just absolutely deadset on a cycle and absolutely have to run one for whatever crazy reason you've come up with then run a test only cycle, see how your body responds and make those changes to your nutrition and exercise regimen. All that extra shit is only gonna fuck you up and set you back
    Alright. My strength isn't that much weaker, the biggest change has been my endurance. My training volume and recovery was much higher and faster. But, I did not feel healthy forcing myself to stay at 195. Always stuffing food. College was soooo easy. The near 24/7 open campus buffet and gym was only a couple mins from my dorm walking. Lol Good times. Coming back home though and having to immediately pay for any food and distance to a gym contributed to my cut and slowing drive.

    I'm gonna continue training naturally for a while longer. Work my way back up to 5-6 times a week instead of 2-3 times now (Actually, only recently got back. I broke both my wrist and foot so I was out of commission for a few months) but I know what kind of training/exercises my body responds too so getting back into the groove shouldn't take as long as you say. I'll postpone considering a Test cycle until then. Of course, I understand if I don't eat more, I won't really gain any real muscle. Just a slow recomp.
    Last edited by MToption2; 02-11-2017 at 05:37 PM.

  37. #37
    Richard Cabeza's Avatar
    Richard Cabeza is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Cali
    Posts
    418
    Quote Originally Posted by MToption2 View Post
    Alright. My strength isn't that much weaker, the biggest change has been my endurance. My training volume and recovery was much higher and faster. But, I did not feel healthy forcing myself to stay at 195. Always stuffing food. College was soooo easy. The near 24/7 open campus buffet and gym was only a couple mins from my dorm walking. Lol Good times. Coming back home though and having to immediately pay for any food and distance to a gym contributed to my cut and slowing drive.

    I'm gonna continue training naturally for a while longer. Work my way back up to 5-6 times a week instead of 2-3 times now (Actually, only recently got back. I broke both my wrist and foot so I was out of commission for a few months) but I know what kind of training/exercises my body responds too so getting back into the groove shouldn't take as long as you say. I'll postpone considering a Test cycle until then. Of course, I understand if I don't eat more, I won't really gain any real muscle. Just a slow recomp.
    The food part is just something to get used to again, so small increases over time will help with that appetite and also help with other beneficial things towards your goals. On cycle or off without that adjustment you'd ultimately just have to stuff your face.

    There's really no shortcuts, nothing worthwhile will come from cheating yourself. Take some time to get in the swing of things and thats going to make your cycle that much more effective and beneficial.

    I haven't started my first cycle yet, i start Monday. I've been lurking this forum for over a year getting as much info as i could to make sure this was what was not only what i wanted but what was right for me too. And even now with years of working out, the time i put into research, the trial and error i still question whether I'm totally ready and i learn something new everyday from the guys and gals in here.

    This group of people is one of the only ones out of all the forums that will literally have your best interest at heart, egos are set aside and people are willing to learn and grow no matter what experience level they may be. There's so much bad info out there, so many negative connotations that surround this, but just about everyone in here has taken the time to research, and i mean thoroughly research everything, these guys have been through just about anythung you can think of through trial and error, successful cycles and failed ones.

    Just take a little more time to naturally get to a point where that endurance is up, you're pushing yourself and getting bigger and then wait for that oh shit moment where you say ok its time to take it to the next level. Because thats what this shit is all about.

    It's like in the gym, you db press the 80s ... boom, next 90s, .... booom...next the 100s .... boom boom boom ... well fuck your gym doesn't have db's over 100 and you are repoin hundreds like a fucking animal... time for a new gym, time to take it to the next level... natural vs steroids pretty much the same concept lol

  38. #38
    MToption2's Avatar
    MToption2 is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Posts
    261
    Quote Originally Posted by Richard Cabeza View Post
    Just take a little more time to naturally get to a point where that endurance is up, you're pushing yourself and getting bigger and then wait for that oh shit moment where you say ok its time to take it to the next level. Because thats what this shit is all about.

    It's like in the gym, you db press the 80s ... boom, next 90s, .... booom...next the 100s .... boom boom boom ... well fuck your gym doesn't have db's over 100 and you are repoin hundreds like a fucking animal... time for a new gym, time to take it to the next level... natural vs steroids pretty much the same concept lol
    Yeah. My goal isn't to be 195 again. I didn't like the OCD mentality of obsessing over the quantity of calories consumed. I swear I had some blood sugar issues from the constant food comas.
    Fun fact: I did Keto diet for 3 months. That absolutely killed my appetite. My weight fell back an additional 10 pounds. I was only 150! The stable energy levels were nice, but again, the cons outweighed the pros. I was on vacation and decided F it with Keto. My bros and I went to Dickeys BBQ. I literally ate 10 ice cream cones. On the drive back to my cabin, I fell asleep hard MIDDAY! I crashed so hard I slept for over 24 hours. No lie. That experience kinda freaked me out. And I wasted half my vacation!

    I will work up my endurance again to the point of not being sore anymore after plateauing again with progressive overload. I don't know how long this will take but would that be a good indicator?

    Lol I don't think I could ever DB shoulder press 80s for reps naturally. I've always been stuck at 65s for reps. 5 foot 8 inches small frame. Cut me some slack.

    Another question, I forgot to ask about HGH earlier, so for someone my age (25). Would HGH provide any benefits? 8 i.u. EOD. I don't plan on ever eating 3500+ calories or stacking it with insulin , so would that minimize any unwanted organ growth?
    Last edited by MToption2; 02-11-2017 at 08:07 PM.

  39. #39
    Richard Cabeza's Avatar
    Richard Cabeza is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Cali
    Posts
    418
    As far as hgh and insulin goes I'll leave that one to the more experienced guys in here lol

    Getting your endurance back can be as easy as lighter weights higher reps for 4-5 sets, i tend to do this with lagging muscles, generally on the last set I'll max to failure to really kill the muscle, I've seen all kinds of gains doing this and definitely increased strength and endurance.

    I've had those sugar binge days where i crash and just fucking fall asleep it sucks but i don't mind the sleep lol but in all seriousness it sounds like you know what needs to be done man just be patient and take the time to do it efficiently, it sucks because I'm sure you're anxious but its better to take the time now to do things right than to possibly pay for it long term or permanently by fucking yourself up you know?

  40. #40
    Richard Cabeza's Avatar
    Richard Cabeza is offline Associate Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2017
    Location
    Cali
    Posts
    418
    Indicator for me is always when i can grab a higher weight than the week prior and rep it out for multiple sets, thats always my goal. Beat what i did the week before, so like i said when i notice I'm having issues with a certain muscle group I'll lower the weight a tad bit and increase reps, I'll do this for a few weeks at high reps 15-20 or pyramid or drop sets just depends, I'll normally do 4 working sets then a 5th at my max to failure with no count just go until i literally have to drop the weights. After a few weeks of that I'll notice i can grab higher weight and start with 8-10 reps for 4 -5 sets always trying to increase and max on my 5 set for that progressive overload.

    I see my workouts as challenging myself, not just building muscle or a fitness aspect but i always try to have that element of challenge and competition to keep my drive and motivation. I hate to fail, i hate not being able to complete a set so for me thats what works to keep me going harder in the gym. No shame in dropping weight and getting those reps in to really hit those muscle fibers and build endurance, I'm a firm believer in this. I see tons if guys ego lifting and struggling with weight or constantly lifting the same weight making no gains and its like whats the point, listen to your body then push it past its limits a little bit every day, it will adapt trust me.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •