STOP running estrogenic compounds if you don't want estrogen sides !!!!

[GearHeaded]

So 1 cycle in 3 phases? How long does the full cycle take in weeks? Phase 1 is 5 weeks... How long is Phase 2 and 3?

completely depends on the person, the circumstances and goals, wither in contest prep or not , a bulk or a cut , etc. etc..

on average though 3 total phases expands over 12-18 weeks . however in some circumstances the phases are separated , so you have 6 weeks on (phase 1) 4 weeks cruise (growth factors only) then 6 weeks on again (phase 2) then 4 weeks cruise, then 6 weeks on (phase 3)

sorry if that sounds more complicated then it needs to be

[Mula]

completely depends on the person, the circumstances and goals, wither in contest prep or not , a bulk or a cut , etc. etc..

on average though 3 total phases expands over 12-18 weeks . however in some circumstances the phases are separated , so you have 6 weeks on (phase 1) 4 weeks cruise (growth factors only) then 6 weeks on again (phase 2) then 4 weeks cruise, then 6 weeks on (phase 3)

sorry if that sounds more complicated then it needs to be

Yeah i'm just not familiar with the cruise. Trying to learn here. I guess the cruising period is being on test only?

[GearHeaded]

Yeah i'm just not familiar with the cruise. Trying to learn here. I guess the cruising period is being on test only?

cruise is just a down regulation from androgen loads.. and being 'test' is an androgen it doesn't necessarily mean just cruising on test (even though thats common)..

basically you have times of super compensation and high degrees of up regulation . a cruise is just a time of down regulation and resensitization (but can still be a time of growth and adding in growth factors)

maybe give this a read to help with some of these things
https://forums.steroid.com/anabolic-...protocols.html

[BG]

You should take deca off that list, its a testosterone derivative and does aromatize.

[BG]

Npp and superdrol also.

[GearHeaded]

You should take deca off that list, its a testosterone derivative and does aromatize.

Deca is a 19 nor . a Progestin derivative (not test derivative). Progesterone does not aromatize . as a 19 nor via chemical structure aromatizing is very unlikely. the ONLY reason people think Deca aromatizes (and most online steroid profiles are wrong) is because as a progestin derived steroid, deca acts on progestin receptors and makes you more sensitive to estrogen (guys have confused this as being "estrogenic" and aromatizing). thats its,, its NOT because Deca will actually raise estrogen levels,, just the opposite. look into it, plenty of studies out there on deca being its a long standing medical drug , Deca will actually lower estrogen levels in men not raise them (unless you add test or some other form of estrogen or aromatizaition based compound) .

jump on 250mg of deca per week with not exogenous test (as a natty with 900 ng/dl natty levels of test) and over 8 weeks watch your estrogen levels plummet .. deca is not a testosterone or estrogen replacement at all (and surely does not aromatize like people think if at all).
I repeat . run a deca only cycle and your estrogen levels will go DOWN , not up . obviously thats not an aromatizing compound then ( a substantial aromaitizng compound will create more estrogen via aromatization, not lower it)

[GearHeaded]

fyi - a compound can be an estrogenic compound but not aromatize .. just need to make that clear. just because a compound does not aromatize into estrogen and raise serum levels of E2 does not mean a compound is not estrogenic

[i_SLAM_cougars]

fyi - a compound can be an estrogenic compound but not aromatize .. just need to make that clear. just because a compound does not aromatize into estrogen and raise serum levels of E2 does not mean a compound is not estrogenic

Such As Anadrol ?

[GearHeaded]

Such As Anadrol?

precisely . Anadrol does NOT aromatize at all but has estrogenic attributes . too many bros over the years confuse estrogen attributes with aromatization (then of course throw AI's at everything) and then they think the AI's they were using were fake . lol.

[BG]

Deca Durabolin is officially classified as a 19-nortestosterone (19-nor) anabolic androgenic steroid . The 19-nor classification refers to its direct structural nature, which is the testosterone hormone lacking a carbon atom at the 19th position. While this is only a slight change in structure from the testosterone hormone, this slight change gives us a unique anabolic steroid.


Deca Durabolin does aromatize, but only at approximately 20% the rate of testosterone. However, it does carry a strong progestin nature, and this will play into the side effects as we will see later on.

Copy and pasted from Hookers profile.

What about superdrol?

[Dgs59]

Can we make this a sticky since all our stickies are old and out dated?

+1 to this

[GearHeaded]

Deca Durabolin is officially classified as a 19-nortestosterone (19-nor) anabolic androgenic steroid . The 19-nor classification refers to its direct structural nature, which is the testosterone hormone lacking a carbon atom at the 19th position. While this is only a slight change in structure from the testosterone hormone, this slight change gives us a unique anabolic steroid.

Deca Durabolin does aromatize, but only at approximately 20% the rate of testosterone. However, it does carry a strong progestin nature, and this will play into the side effects as we will see later on.

Copy and pasted from Hookers profile.

as 'somewhat' correct that this profile may be , its biggest problem is that its overly simplistic and too basic and does not tell the whole story . and it thus propagates the general bro myth that most online steroid profiles do in saying that deca aromatizes.

when you dig deeper and look at the actual chemical structure of deca, the removing of the carbon from the 19 position from test is a BIG deal. its too simple to think that deca is nothing more then test lacking a carbon atom.. its actually this structural change itself that changes the base hormone so much its a totally new hormone. by removing the carbon at the 19th position you've removed the ability for it to convert to estrogen. by structure, 19 nors technically are not supposed to convert to estrogen (I'm sure the engineers had this in mind when designing deca).

this "supposedly small" structural change is a really big change. the reason Deca does not convert to DHT and also does not convert to estrogen (or is supposed to not convert to estrogen) is because the body does not recognize this compound as Testosterone any more. it recognizes it more as Progesterone. Aromatize enzyme can't convert it to estrogen because it sees it as progesterone , not test. Deca can then also bind to progestin receptors and act as progesterone on those receptors (which will then make your more sensitive to estrogen, so you can get estrogenic effects from deca, but its not because the Deca is actually aromatizing).
I think its the estrogenic effects that can come from Deca (because its acting on progestin receptors) is the reason why 'bros' have always assumed that Deca amortized to some degree. and lets remember, its usually 'bros' who write up online steroid profiles and not the actual cellular engineers who designed the drugs.

again, 19 nor nandrolone is technically, by very structure, not supposed to aromatize. the removing of the carbon from the 19th position changes the original hormone so much that its not recognized by the body as an androgen any more its recognized as progesterone. there is no conversion to DHT and no conversion to estrogen because progesterone does not convert to those things.
also the reason why deca is classified under the "progestin" based drugs ,, while things like Winstrol are classified under DHT based drugs,, and things like Dbol are classified as Test based drugs (and its generally only these drugs that aromatize 'as test'. DHT based drugs don't generally aromatize because DHT does not aromatize, Progestin based drugs don't generally aromatize because progesterone doesn't aromatize, test based drugs generally do aromatize because test itself armoatizes (the aromatase enzyme is only going to interact with something it recognizes as test).
I'm sure there are some exceptions to this general thought . but deca is not one of them.


also not only from the structural reasoning can we assume that deca does not aromatize (especially not at a rate as high as 20% that of Test) ,, is from all the anecdotal evidence and medical research studies .
now 'bros' over the years have taken deca and gotten estrogenic side effects from it, and thus wrongly assumed deca aromatized (again, its the progestin receptor binding thats just making you more sensitive to estrogen).
BUT, being deca has been used in medicine for decades, there are lots of medical research studies that have been done. in a lot of these studies where blood work was done before, during, and after Deca administration, estrogen levels were checked. and nearly across the board you'll find estrogen levels go DOWN when taking deca (they were not administered test, just deca).

if you were to run a Deca only cycle (which is common) you too would find your E levels go down, not up. so the idea of needing to take an AI with deca is completely ridiculous .
if you get any estrogenic side effects from Deca, its simply because deca is acting on your progestin receptors as actual progesterone and this is then sensitizing your estrogen receptors .
also if you ever hear of anyone getting 'tren gyno' or 'deca gyno' ,, some people will assume this is 'prolactin gyno' . umm there is no such thing as "prolactin gyno" .. its still just estrogen induced gyno. and its not from elevated estrogen levels at all, its from the progestin effects making your overly sensitive to estrogen . and this is only in the rare few guys that are genetically pre disposed to this.


anyhow . thats my 2 cents.
its also a big reason I try not to rely on basic steroid profiles. I'd rather dig way deeper (way past page 1 of google lol) and look into medical journals and try and find the medically written pharmacokinetics and pharmacology on drugs (not something written for bodybuilders or juice heads). its sometimes hard to do though and hard to find.. in some stuff you may have to venture over into veterinary medicine as well (eg., you can learn a lot about EQ in vet medicine then you can on a basic steroid profile)


and how does this all related to the main topic of this thread ?

well deca most certainly does fit the list of drugs that can be taken for guys that want to avoid aromatization and having high serum levels of estrogen. No AI necessary at all with deca

[GearHeaded]

What about superdrol?

Superdrol most certainly fits the list for AAS to take if you don't want elevated estrogen.. superdrol is DHT derived. it cannot aromatize to estrogen. superdrol is basically in structure just Masteron that has been c17 methylated for oral use. its also not very androgenic , in fact its probably got the highest ratio of anabolic to androgenic then any other steroid available (its 20x more anabolic then it is androgenic).

IF your getting estrogen effects from superdrol , its likely just being faked with dbol or anadrol

[BG]

It simply aromatizes or it doesn’t.

[GearHeaded]

It simply aromatizes or it doesn’t.

go on a deca only cycle . 300mg of deca per week. get you E2 checked before your cycle, then get your E2 checked after 12 weeks . then tell me or anyone else if you think deca aromatizes or not when your E2 levels are nearly crashed . if deca was an estrogen producing drug then your estrogen would elevate , not decline.

pretty easy experiment to conduct really..

in fact that experiment has already been done 100s of times. in medicine. and thats why in medicine deca is not considered an aromatizing estrogenic AAS..
but seems likes the bros on this topic are still 20 years behind the times and think it does aromatize to the point of even thinking they would need to take an AI with deca (that would actually be disastrous, taking an AI with deca only cycles)

and again as Deca relates to this topic at hand . IF you want to keep your serum levels of estrogen on the low end and not have to run an AI ,, then deca most certainly can be a good choice

[GearHeaded]

It simply aromatizes or it doesn’t.

when guys write steroid profiles and say things like "deca aromatizes at 20% of that of testosterone " .. my question is then, REALLY ? prove it .. you happen to know that deca actually aromatizes and you have it dialed down to the exact percentage even . wow. thats amazing.. you know the exact percentage to the degree that deca aromatizes (yet in medicine the question still remains if a 19 nor can even aromatize at all in the first place) ..
but the bros that write steriod profiles know it to the exact percentage points . lol . I call bullshit.

theres zero evidence that it aromatizes , let alone that it aromatizes to exactly 20% that of test..(like the bullshit profiles want to suggest)

the only real evidence we have in medical studies is that your blood serum levels of estrogen will go down if taking deca, not up (unless you add an exogenous source to provide more estrogen)


there is zero evidence (that I'm aware of) to suggest that Deca should be considered an estrogen producing aromatizing steroid hormone .. quite the opposite actually

can it produce estrogenic like side effects because of its progestin receptor activation . most certainly.. but thats a big difference from saying its an estrogen producing drug

[Mula]

Superdrol most certainly fits the list for AAS to take if you don't want elevated estrogen.. superdrol is DHT derived. it cannot aromatize to estrogen. superdrol is basically in structure just Masteron that has been c17 methylated for oral use. its also not very androgenic , in fact its probably got the highest ratio of anabolic to androgenic then any other steroid available (its 20x more anabolic then it is androgenic).

IF your getting estrogen effects from superdrol , its likely just being faked with dbol or anadrol

Superdrol also seems like a good compound to run with test for a first cycle. What would the main benefits/differences be between a test/anavar vs test/superdrol cycle besides being harsh on the liver?