Ghetto Martial Art

[Aku]

This is pointed towards Hurricanejujitsu:
Finaly a person who knows the different between sports and balls out fighting. MMA is bound by rules....nuff said.
I've been in several San Shou tourneys, and sport karate tourneys, I have met Frank also when he did the interview with BlackBelt Mag....years ago....I'm wondering if I may have seen you....hmmm...the martial art circle is small....

[hurricanejujitsu]

ok,ok i guess i got a little carried away on "kingofmasters", (altho I kept the discussion about the topic and he called me names and more-)
I am just sick of guys who put down other styles to glorify thier own! Guys that only know of some of these style because of NHB and the UFC.... I have been practicing Judo/Jujitsu/MuyTai long before there was a UFC, and sport MMA! Still, I have done seminars, and trained, in almost every style.
Any true M-artist knows there is no ultimate martial art, only ultimate martial artist. (different things work in dif situations)
Even in the sport relm now every one is cross training! For the street there is a big difference in what you can and cannot do. Remeber, it is never fair it is never one on one and you dont have Tatame or a cage, the guy might have a botle a stick, a nife, a gun anything. It happens fast, it happens in the moment, and with years of training you may slip or get suckker punch and loose. So remeber, I didn't start the "Style Flaming" I just had the balls to stand up and say cut it out before a "judo guy" shows how efective it can be... By the way The hottest up and comming star in UFC is
C. Perisian, a Judo guy from Gene Labells camp...Watch him and you will see where MMA is headed. Jointlocks into throws from standing! Beautiful!

[mountain man]

Just keep in mind whatever you decide to do It should be something you enjoy doing. Also, I think "some" of you guys are missing what the art of fighting is all about. It doesn't take to long to develop enough skills to defend yourself, then most quit. The art of fighting is an art. Get it! Its like chess, but with your body. I have boxed a lot of guys whose only intention is to hurt someone instead of learn something and by the way we do hit full force. Thats what full contact means.
I won't bother qualifying myself as I have nothing to prove. Another thing from experience, You can have years of training and in an instant it can useless because you really don't know what you're gonna do out of the class room. Trust me, I've been "in the yard"


MM

[hurricanejujitsu]

Good points MountainMan... Well its not that we are missing what the art of fighting is about, its that some of us seem to be confusing the Sport with practical self defense in the streets, and you eluded to it kinda, it is simple and should be kept simple, not over complicated... Now the Fight Game has many facets and rules, that keep it fair, on the other hand it becomes a chess match because niether guy is trying to committ too much thus... "The sweet science" as you would call it in Boxing
We train, we diet, we Eat, live, sleep, think, ****,,,Next MATCH, untill its over then We train, we diet, we Eat, live, sleep, think, ****,,,WHAT WE COULD HAVE DONE BETTER LAST TIME. You see, for some of us we take fights just to Motivate and Push ourselfs to the next level! "I LOVE THIS GAME" There is no ball, no goal, no team....Just you. How can you not defeat yourself with mistakes!

[ironfist]

ok,ok i guess i got a little carried away on "kingofmasters", (altho I kept the discussion about the topic and he called me names and more-)
I am just sick of guys who put down other styles to glorify thier own! Guys that only know of some of these style because of NHB and the UFC.... I have been practicing Judo/Jujitsu/MuyTai long before there was a UFC, and sport MMA! Still, I have done seminars, and trained, in almost every style.
Any true M-artist knows there is no ultimate martial art, only ultimate martial artist. (different things work in dif situations)
Even in the sport relm now every one is cross training! For the street there is a big difference in what you can and cannot do. Remeber, it is never fair it is never one on one and you dont have Tatame or a cage, the guy might have a botle a stick, a nife, a gun anything. It happens fast, it happens in the moment, and with years of training you may slip or get suckker punch and loose. So remeber, I didn't start the "Style Flaming" I just had the balls to stand up and say cut it out before a "judo guy" shows how efective it can be... By the way The hottest up and comming star in UFC is
C. Perisian, a Judo guy from Gene Labells camp...Watch him and you will see where MMA is headed. Jointlocks into throws from standing! Beautiful!

My instructor just got back from Gene Labbels camp after spending a week there. What is he, 70 ish? Still whoopin peoples asses. I guess those guys give the gracie fighters a pretty good run for their money. He brought back some cool neck cranks and joint locks that he showed us...

[hurricanejujitsu]

Yeah Ifist, Gene has forgotten more submissions then any Gracie or anybodyelse for that matter has ever known! Thats not a stick at the Gracies... Royce is a great guy, and back in 95, i learned alot from one of his purple belts in Atlanta... They have definatly re shaped MMA. Also, one thing you have to remember, Life in Brazil is tuffer in general than in the U.S.... It makes for a diferent mentality... Like the diference between Japanese fighters and US fighters, we just have a more agressive mind set. Anyway, I thought, I knew alot about Jointlocks and chokes until i met Gene Labell, he made me feel like a beginer... Locks I had never seen before... One move I remember he was on his back and had me up in the air breaking my back and sholder.... I never figured that one out!

[aleximo]

Krav Maga is far none the best sport I've ever done. I live in Chicago and my trainer is fresh off the boat from Romania. This guy is nuts and pushes us like noone else. Many of you don't understand what Krav Maga is, it includes all styles. and i do mean ALL. We learn it all and unlike other martial arts, we spar with one another. I don't mean just throwing puches or kicks at 10%, he makes us go all out. I strongly believe that it's the best mma out there. Don't listen to what kravmaga.com has to say. also, it doesn't matter what martial art u take, it's all about how u approach it. if u approach even karate at 100% and dedicate your training, dieting, and everything else to it, u'll be good no matter what. also, if the trainer pushes u to your limits, then it's worth it as well. there have been many times that i have puked during or after class and i'm willing to put krav maga against any other mma. I'm not trying to say other mma styles aren't as good, maybe it's the fact that my trainer has an Eastern European mentality of pushing us 110% and making us understand that u have to be as tough mentally as u r physically. we do everything from jui-jitsu to sambo to wrestling to kickboxing to submissions and whatever else is out there. just my 2 cents on krav maga. maybe i just got lucky with the school and the instructor.

[latino_athlete]

best way to learn how to fight is just to fight. ive seen street fighters that practice no more than rough kick boxing tear a new hole into blackbelts more than once.

[sp9]

interesting debate. I wonder what percentage of people out there would actually be difficult in a street fight.

Me, not the greatest but then again it is no rules. Have not seen a street fight yet with biting, eye gouging, headbutts, groin attacks. Those would be my preferences.

[byrdtre]

Not to flame or brag, but I got in a fight with this guy in judo, he twisted my wrist and it really pissed me off and wound up kicking his ass. Hey man try boxing, its fun and gets you in shape.

[GQ-Bouncer]

yeah, picking up on byrdtre point

i think the "keep it simple and savage" rule applies more to a street fighter than a ring fighter

[hurricanejujitsu]

Hmmmmm Its funny.... There is no "legal" wristlocks in JUDO. NONE. Jujitsu yes, but if the lock had been done properly you could be in the emergency room holding your limp hand. IT dosn't take alot to break a wrist.... especialy a tight one.

[novascotia]

kingofmaster said "When they put a sort non-trained Harley Davidson Roughneck (the likes of Tank Abbot)"

Tank has a wrestling and a boxing back ground if i remember right.and his last fight just showed how good he is,didnt it last like 30 seconds? and dont he have a piss poor record in MMA?

nothing aganst Tank as i like to watch him.he always brings the fight, but his last fight just showed how out classed he really is.

I think conditioning and mindset would be more of a factor then what style you know. i say go join whatever make's you happy and you enjoy,besides you can always buy a gun...

[Monkeytown]

Most Thugs on the street don't know how to fight. Actually many of them have never been in a fight. They prey on fear and deep down hope they never run into a skilled fighter or someone who will stand up to them b/c they don't know how to react. I've studied different martial arts from Okinawan Karate to kickboxing to JKD and still find the best self defense is standing your ground. Most guys will back down. Every now and again you will have to deal with a nut case that doesn't give a $**** about you or himself.

IMO if you become proficient in a few effective moves (eye jab, straight blast, groin/leg/knee kick and of course parry) you can handle just about any situation. Becoming proficient is where all the fun is!!

JMHO

[Jock191]

"what i was trying to say, is krav maga WON'T work in most street situations, if you want to feel safe, take a boxing or kickboxing classes and learn the chokehold and you'll be safe - don't waste your time learning moves that won't work, spend your hours hitting a bag not learning the diffrence between the S armbar and a straight armbar "


Ill start off with this Im a former US MARINE as well as a bouncer in a night club now number one bro im sorry but you dont know jack about Krava Maga if you think it "WONT" work in a street fight.. I've taken martial arts since I was 5 yrs old.. Thats 17 yrs of it.. I've taken Brazilian jujitsu, hapkido,shotokan,judo boxing, catch as catch can wrestling and kick boxing.. I also started Krava Maga about 2 yrs ago and I'll tell you what Krava Maga teaches you how to react in a real actually life sitution.. Take one class and I guarenty you that you will be like wow holy ****.. They dont teach you worthless moves, its all based on natural reactions.. So get your head out of you ass or learn alittle something more that what you THINK you know... OOOH yeah and a boxer unless he knows some type of grappling and or unless he gets the first hit will get the crapped kicked out of him if the fight goes to the ground which most street fights end up doing ne ways...

[GQ-Bouncer]

"what i was trying to say, is krav maga WON'T work in most street situations, if you want to feel safe, take a boxing or kickboxing classes and learn the chokehold and you'll be safe - don't waste your time learning moves that won't work, spend your hours hitting a bag not learning the diffrence between the S armbar and a straight armbar "


Ill start off with this Im a former US MARINE as well as a bouncer in a night club now number one bro im sorry but you dont know jack about Krava Maga if you think it "WONT" work in a street fight.. I've taken martial arts since I was 5 yrs old.. Thats 17 yrs of it.. I've taken Brazilian jujitsu, hapkido,shotokan,judo boxing, catch as catch can wrestling and kick boxing.. I also started Krava Maga about 2 yrs ago and I'll tell you what Krava Maga teaches you how to react in a real actually life sitution.. Take one class and I guarenty you that you will be like wow holy ****.. They dont teach you worthless moves, its all based on natural reactions.. So get your head out of you ass or learn alittle something more that what you THINK you know... OOOH yeah and a boxer unless he knows some type of grappling and or unless he gets the first hit will get the crapped kicked out of him if the fight goes to the ground which most street fights end up doing ne ways...

Allright, now i feel a little defensive, but i'm not going to lash out as you for those blatent insults.... but i respect that you have an opinion

Self-defence is good for 3 things
1- teaching the Carotid Control Hold
2- teaching reforming the mind/body connection for natural reaction
3- teaching people not to give up, or "turtle".

I'll start off by saying that i don't think i'm more cool or any better than you in anyway.

I have incapacitated 43 people (via unconciosness) in my life. The majority with my employment at the nightclub in which i am the head doorman. I have bounced at a local biker nightclub for 1 1/2 years. I also perform protective services for a security company. I have a canadian army backround (infantry - however it doesn't pertain to this discussion). I also have 2 current open investigations on assault causing grievious bodily harm charges. I'm sure if you've made up your mind about either myself or my opinion than anything i say will be needless, however.

I will make the first correction in your response. The only time a street fight leads to the ground is when A) the opponent has been incapacitated B) the opponent has been knocked down and of course C) the opponent has been forced into a pain compliance hold on the ground waiting for the police. In situation "B" when your opponent is knocked down, they are simply kicked while on the ground until compliant (they give up) or unconcious. If anyone goes to the ground, than they'll get beaten.

A majority of the time, in my opinion, the person who is going to win the fight will be the one with the desire to cause harm and the willingness to initiate violence. After that, it's a simple matter of timing and ambush

A majority of time, i "chokeout" the patrons causing problems inside via carotid control hold and then gently lay them down. Now don't get me wrong, i've done more than my share of stupid things, but i'm telling you from my experiences, boxing mentally toughens you and trains you to take a punch and more importantly counterpunch. In self-defence culture, it's often women who want to empower themselves by giving them a false sense of security.

I have also taken self-defence, and my experiences from it are invalueable, however, the atmosphere at typical self-defence gyms are self-defeating.

[shadowman25]

Krav Maga is an iranian fighting technique. Its good for street defense gun/knife disarms but it lacks the grace and fluidity common to most martial arts.

[sensei_jim]

I am trained in an Aiki Jujitsu, Syle and Judo, with a bit of Kajukembo taught to me for situational self defence. Belts in my art take years, and we have (maybe) 100 moves total. There are more, but they're not written down, so I won't find out until I'm sitting on some mountain in Japan, where it will be whispered to me.

When we first learn moves...I mean we as everyone reading this...we don't really understand it, but we repeat it. At some point in training, the epiphany hits. Whether I learn to stop an attack with Jujitsu, or stop the same attack with Kung fu, they both stop the attack. With training.

I have seen Krav Maga, and have visited a 15000 square foot (wow!) facility in Northern California. I was impressed with this art significantly, to the point I would probably do about 6-8 months of it someday. I would take this as a self defence art against attackers that I wanted to dispatch quickly and without mercy. Unfortunately there is no other side to this martial art, so if you got attacked by your girlfriends drunk father, you have no "going easy". Also remember there is no philosophy in Krav Maga, and I really like Aikido and Jujitsu and Tai Chi for this aspect.

By the way, Gun arts are fun, and I would rather defend against a gun than a knife in close quarters. But don't take it lightly. When you disarm someone, the gun WILL go off, and the bullet will likely not hit you, but will hit something. Be careful out there. Hopefully you can turn the gun around during the capture (Katate Tori) and shoot the attacker, but don't count on it.

[hurricanejujitsu]

Like the PIC of Wally J... A ledgend in Jujitsu.
Small Circle AikiJJ is the real deal!
I agreeabout Krav.... Definatly "Balls Out"

[phwSSJ]

I think krav is gay

[phwSSJ]

This is pointed towards Hurricanejujitsu:
Finaly a person who knows the different between sports and balls out fighting. MMA is bound by rules....nuff said.
I've been in several San Shou tourneys, and sport karate tourneys, I have met Frank also when he did the interview with BlackBelt Mag....years ago....I'm wondering if I may have seen you....hmmm...the martial art circle is small....

I am sorry but I have to disagree.
There are rules in MMA in order to keep the integrity of the sport.
Anyone can pull off a cheap shot. There is no technique in hitting someone in the nuts or in the eye ect ect.

So let me ask you this..

If a guy can whup your ass with rules and restrictions applied what makes you think he wont whup your ass even harder when there is nothing holding him back?????
Do you think your wrist locks are gona stop a guy from picking you up and slamming your head on the concrete MMA style??
I think your logic is ridiculous.


So you guys actually think if you trained your crav manga pussy style you could take a pro MMA fighter in a street fight??
My ass ...whatever!!!!
if someone tried some gay ass wrist lock on me they would have an imploded face.
And as far as fighting on the ground in the street, the ground can actually be the safest place to be in some situations, especially if it is a woman trying to defend herself against a large man or multiple attackers.
Ever tried to pick up a kid off the ground that is screaming and kicking, its near impossible......

Plus if you have good technique that is 100 times better than a cheap blsht move... just train harder and dont go looking for fights....

[SHODAN DAN]

Krav Maga is an iranian fighting technique. Its good for street defense gun/knife disarms but it lacks the grace and fluidity common to most martial arts.

Its Israeli.

[hurricanejujitsu]

PswSSJ, hahahahaha you obviosly new to martialarts. Wristlocks can be devestating if applied correctly. (If youd like a demonstration i am in South Beach)
I have used them bolth in the street, bouncing, and in BJJ! I don't care how much u train, and how topugh you think you are but when your meta-carpals start to tear away from your arm your gonna scream and hit the ground (in the direction of less wrist pain). Dont get me wrong. I have never studied Krav Maga and dont intend to... To me it looks more explosive than tecnical. (Jujitsu for me)
AS far as the diference between MMA and street! HUGE and no the rules are not to "keep the integrity of the sport"
you sound like a UFC announcer (guess thats where you heard it) When Wristlocks were taken out of JUDO (from Jujitsu) It was to protect the Players from injurys!
Takeda had killed 6 of Japans top martial artist/police officers in a police tournament, using wristlock throws that landed them on therer head!
(do some reaserch)

MMA is one on one, no wepons, no dirty glass or rocks on the ground.....relitivly SAFE. Furthermore you are wrong. Ground is NEVER the place you want to be in the street! NEVER woman or man. If you end up there know what to do!
but how are you gonna run away from a group of attackers on the ground? Your gonna go to the Hospital or Morg! STUDY MORE, LEARN WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT. There is NO rules in the streets. Try to pick me up and slam me, I might stab you on the neck with my pen....lol Who says thats not teqnique? you were gonna slam my head rite?

[hurricanejujitsu]

Its ridiculous to me that this thread is still going and people are still talking out there ass about the SOS.....lol Oh well, glad to be back, feels like i never left. hahahaha

[phwSSJ]

wristlocks are not very practical,
No trained fighter is gonna let you play with their wrists and just sit there do nothing!
Stab in the neck huh, you wouldnt have time, that is so lame. Takedowns happen in a matter of seconds, Id like to see you try to reach my head when your feet are up in the air before you know what even hit you.
And you obviously dont know very much about self defense, cuz the ground can be the safest place in some scenarios.
Let me give you one of many.
A lady is going to her car. Some guys come up to her and try to stuff a in a van.
She trys to run, they grab her. She forces herself to the ground then starts kicking at the knees and groin and any other target. The attackers are having a hard time getting her off the ground, its taking too long, they leave before she can attract any attention and get them caught.
This technique of self defense has been used countless times and is taught in REAL self defense classes.

integrity of the sport, yes its true, you dont know what you are talking about.
There are rules to keep the players safe and that is part of keeping the integrity of the sport among other things.
You still didnt answer my question...
If someone can kick your ass with rules what makes you think they wont fk you up worse when they dont play fair, you think they are gonna just sit there like a little church boys and play by the rules when you are trying to hurt them????
your are acting as if a fighter would have no brain and commons sense outside of what they train...
And if thats what you think then you are wrong.

When I am in florida I would Love to pay you a visit,
try one of those pussyass wristlocks on me with a pencil in your other hand and Ill still dump you on your head.
Easy to talk sh1t behind a computer,
Just to let you know, I wasnt saying I would do any of that stuff to you, I was saying that if a "fighter" did so and so then bla and bla would happen.
But since you think you are a bad ass and wanna call me out,
you better have your money where your mouth is,
I will be in south beach this summer if Brazil does not work out.
And if I am there then I will come and find your sh1t talkin ass and show you who is new to the martial arts.
You sound like one of those guys that just started and
is making up all kinds of crap, its easy to talk smack and say whatever you want behind a computer....
I am gona have fun with you I can tell already!

[hurricanejujitsu]

Your first sentence is B.S., "wristlocks are not very practical".... Thats such a broad statement! Just because you havn't learned how and when to properly apply one dosn't mean that wristlocks are not very practical! Ive personaly Joint locked or wristlocked and escorted many big mouth assholes while doing security! Flawlessly.

I said, Know what to do if you end up on the ground, but in Most cases one would not deliberatly assume a disadvantagous position! Its simple logic! Duhhhh
hahahah "REAL" self defense classes are often a joke and teach techniques that can get people hurt/killed.

I've seen it alot sence the UFC BJJ craze... Kidds getting there heads kicked in by a group of people after mounting someone! Most people do react with what they train when faced with a situation.

Trying to Shoot on someone with a weppon is PLANE STUPID! Yeah you may drive for the takedown but you dont live to talk about it! Maby you can roll, BUT You obviously are very one sided and un experienced in Martial arts. It shows by your views. It shows by your attitude. Seems your looking for a fight. I deliberatly used the word demonstrate... so you could interpet the way you will. If you were ballanced inside, you would want to learn something you might not have seen...
Seems you like to learn lessons the hard way. SOBE is small. Ilready knew you were going to Brazil, even tho your not hear.

[Cycleon]

phwSSJ - how old are you? 15? if you are older than that please start acting like it