new PWO ideas

[jdh]

if your going to have have oats you might as well wait an hour to consume anything at all and throw out your second pwo all together. im not sure how some of you can consume a whole food meal immediately after workout anyway. exercise suppresses appetite,so if your goin balls to the walls training and are spent it should be quite diffictult for you to down about a whole cup of oats among the other crap you guys mention.

just for the record, i wasnt serious when i wrote that i have a whole other set of beliefs for myself based on my experiences then giantz and johan, so i say try high gi carbs pwo for a couple months then try low gi carbs for a couple months. make sure your diet and training is spot on or you may have skewed results one way or the other. then stick with what you think worked best, from my personal experience its been high gi.

[SwoleCat]

Initially, there is a period of rapid synthesis of muscle glycogen that does not require the presence of insulin and lasts about 30-60 minutes

Do they ever say what occurs when there IS an insulin spike/surge, and the ability for insulin to store more nutrients than the norm w/no spike?

(One reason BB'ers shoot slin PWO and use high gi carbs)

~SC~

[Giantz11]

Do they ever say what occurs when there IS an insulin spike/surge, and the ability for insulin to store more nutrients than the norm w/no spike?

(One reason BB'ers shoot slin PWO and use high gi carbs)

~SC~

I doubt you will store more with a spike. I've seen evidence that using a higher Gi carb can speed up glycogen synthesis but that is separate from Protein synthesis and quicker glycogen synthesis does not equate to more muscle growth. Protein synthesis peaks 24hr PWO. Johan and I have been going back and forth about the use of Exogenous slin and my new theory is it would be better utilized 24hr after your workout when PS is at its peak.

[Kärnfysikern]

I think this study giantz sent me today can clear that upp decently. Most of insulins anabolic effects is its ability to shut down degradation of protein and the body is very sensitive to that effect and it peaks out quickly.

Insulin sensitivity of protein and glucose metabolism in human forearm skeletal muscle.

Louard RJ, Fryburg DA, Gelfand RA, Barrett EJ.

Department of Internal Medicine, Yale University School of Medicine, New Haven, Connecticut 06510.

Physiologic increases of insulin promote net amino acid uptake and protein anabolism in forearm skeletal muscle by restraining protein degradation. The sensitivity of this process to insulin is not known. Using the forearm perfusion method, we infused insulin locally in the brachial artery at rates of 0.00 (s****e control), 0.01, 0.02, 0.035, or 0.05 mU/min per kg for 150 min to increase local forearm plasma insulin concentration by 0, approximately 20, approximately 35, approximately 60, and approximately 120 microU/ml (n = 35). L-[ring-2,6-3H]phenylalanine and L-[1-14C]leucine were infused systemically, and the net forearm balance, rate of appearance (Ra) and rate of disposal (R(d)) of phenylalanine and leucine, and forearm glucose balance were measured basally and in response to insulin infusion. Compared to s****e, increasing rates of insulin infusion progressively increased net forearm glucose uptake from 0.9 mumol/min per 100 ml (s****e) to 1.0, 1.8, 2.4, and 4.7 mumol/min per 100 ml forearm, respectively. Net forearm balance for phenylalanine and leucine was significantly less negative than basal (P < 0.01 for each) in response to the lowest dose insulin infusion, 0.01 mU/min per kg, and all higher rates of insulin infusion. Phenylalanine and leucine R(a) declined by approximately 38 and 40% with the lowest dose insulin infusion. Higher doses of insulin produced no greater effect (decline in R(a) varied between 26 and 42% for phenylalanine and 30-50% for leucine). In contrast, R(d) for phenylalanine and leucine did not change with insulin. We conclude that even modest increases of plasma insulin can markedly suppress proteolysis, measured by phenylalanine R(a), in human forearm skeletal muscle. Further increments of insulin within the physiologic range augment glucose uptake but have little additional effect on phenylalanine R(a) or balance. These results suggest that proteolysis in human skeletal muscle is more sensitive than glucose uptake to physiologic increments in insulin

I do think however that there must be more going on when insulin levels are realy high, because hell injecting slin puts meat on like nothing else obviously. But that effect doesnt seem to be linear. It seems to arrive at a certain dosage and doesnt get much improved with higher dosages.

Exercise Effects on Muscle Insulin Sign****g and Action
Invited Review: Role of insulin in translational control of protein synthesis in skeletal muscle by amino acids or exercise
Scot R. Kimball1, Peter A. Farrell2, and Leonard S. Jefferson1

1 Department of Cellular and Molecular Physiology, The Pennsylvania State University College of Medicine, Hershey 17033; and 2 Noll Physiology Research Center, The Pennsylvania State University, University Park, Pennsylvania 16802

Protein synthesis in skeletal muscle is modulated in response to a variety of stimuli. Two stimuli receiving a great deal of recent attention are increased amino acid availability and exercise. Both of these effectors stimulate protein synthesis in part through activation of translation initiation. However, the full response of translation initiation and protein synthesis to either effector is not observed in the absence of a minimal concentration of insulin. The combination of insulin and either increased amino acid availability or endurance exercise stimulates translation initiation and protein synthesis in part through activation of the ribosomal protein S6 protein kinase S6K1 as well as through enhanced association of eukaryotic initiation factor eIF4G with eIF4E, an event that promotes binding of mRNA to the ribosome. In contrast, insulin in combination with resistance exercise stimulates translation initiation and protein synthesis through enhanced activity of a guanine nucleotide exchange protein referred to as eIF2B. In both cases, the amount of insulin required for the effects is low, and a concentration of the hormone that approximates that observed in fasting animals is sufficient for maximal stimulation. This review summarizes the results of a number of recent studies that have helped to establish our present understanding of the interactions of insulin, amino acids, and exercise in the regulation of protein synthesis in skeletal muscle.

[SwoleCat]

I do think however that there must be more going on when insulin levels are realy high, because hell injecting slin puts meat on like nothing else obviously.

Right, that's what I was getting at, because all studies aside, it's no secret the pro's use slin to get huge, and do so pwo, I personally know 2 of them.

True they use GH as well w/all kinds of anabolics, but slin does make a significant difference in the size of a professional bodybuilder.

~SC~

[Giantz11]

Right, that's what I was getting at, because all studies aside, it's no secret the pro's use slin to get huge, and do so pwo, I personally know 2 of them.

True they use GH as well w/all kinds of anabolics, but slin does make a significant difference in the size of a professional bodybuilder.

~SC~

No question there, same goes with AAS though. You are breaking all the rules. Never ran slin personally so I don'r know its powers. Johan tells me its great though

[Kurz]

Has a pretty intense chest/tri w/o yesterday. Had a premeal of 1 cup oats, 1 scoop of whey about 330......trained at 5-630. Skipped my shake (anxiety set in big time) and went home. Finally ate at 730 4 pieces of ww, eggs, salad and then had a muscle milk prebed about 9:15..........I feel ok now, but we'll see tonight for back/bis.....deads....thats when I feel the lack of throttle.

[kaptainkeezy04]

No question there, same goes with AAS though. You are breaking all the rules. Never ran slin personally so I don'r know its powers. Johan tells me its great though

yeah gosh swolecat you are breaking all the rules!