Carb cycling...

**soulstealer** · 03-28-2008, 12:37 PM

Whats your take as to 1 carb up day verses 2..... I'm currently running like this:

Day 1 300g
Day 2 175g
Day 3 125g
Day 4 300g
Day 5 175g
Day 6 175g
Day 7 125g

And was thinking of something more like this:

Day 1 450g
Day 2 125g
Day 3 50g
Day 4 125g
Day 5 125g
Day 6 125g
Day 7 50g

**sorel_C** · 03-28-2008, 01:00 PM

it all boils down to how flat you get,, but with an average of 125grams,, and 2 days a week of 50grams,,, i highly doubt you would need 2 full carb up days per week,,, again it boils down to your own body ie. fat loss rate,,flatness,

**Ajc330** · 03-28-2008, 01:08 PM

seems like a little too much carbs

**novastepp** · 03-29-2008, 11:38 AM

cutting or bulking?

**FallenWyvern** · 03-29-2008, 07:47 PM

Can someone point me to a good carb cycling post? I did search and didn't really find out what I wanted to.

**Ajc330** · 03-29-2008, 07:57 PM

i believe he is cutting, and carbs are the enemy when cutting

**naturalsux** · 03-29-2008, 08:37 PM

Originally Posted by Ajc330

i believe he is cutting, and carbs are the enemy when cutting

hes close to 300lb though. he needs carbs.

**Narkissos** · 03-29-2008, 09:06 PM

Originally Posted by Ajc330

i believe he is cutting, and carbs are the enemy when cutting

^^No... they are not.

Wow.

**novastepp** · 03-30-2008, 12:46 PM

Originally Posted by Ajc330

i believe he is cutting, and carbs are the enemy when cutting

what? i cut on a pro/carb diet exclusively when cutting. maybe the occasional natty PB binge before bed. but i would advise making blanket sweep comments like that. i would be interested in seeing you try it. the success is great and you are always energized and my workouts are productive every session.

**Narkissos** · 03-31-2008, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by novastepp

what? i cut on a pro/carb diet exclusively when cutting. maybe the occasional natty PB binge before bed. but i would advise making blanket sweep comments like that. i would be interested in seeing you try it. the success is great and you are always energized and my workouts are productive every session.

yep.

-CNS

**soulstealer** · 03-31-2008, 07:41 AM

I gotcha maybe I'll bump my carbs on my day off.... I didnt really notice a crazy tired feeling or anything on my rest days most likely due to the broccoli and asparagus I have been consuming (1lbs of broccoli and 4oz asparagus ED) which I dont count towards my macro's but if you think it will make a significant difference in LBM retained I will try it...BTW I carbed up yesterday and I filled out I look great today.... all my carbs are from brown rice/sweet potato...

**novastepp** · 03-31-2008, 08:18 AM

Originally Posted by soulstealer

I gotcha maybe I'll bump my carbs on my day off.... I didnt really notice a crazy tired feeling or anything on my rest days most likely due to the broccoli and asparagus I have been consuming (1lbs of broccoli and 4oz asparagus ED) which I dont count towards my macro's but if you think it will make a significant difference in LBM retained I will try it...BTW I carbed up yesterday and I filled out I look great today.... all my carbs are from brown rice/sweet potato...

also consider that carbs help with growth, and when better to have something help with growing when you're sitting on your ass on those off days? plus the carb boost will only help you during your next training session.

**Narkissos** · 03-31-2008, 09:51 AM

Originally Posted by soulstealer

I gotcha maybe I'll bump my carbs on my day off.... I didnt really notice a crazy tired feeling or anything on my rest days most likely due to the broccoli and asparagus I have been consuming (1lbs of broccoli and 4oz asparagus ED) which I dont count towards my macro's but if you think it will make a significant difference in LBM retained I will try it...BTW I carbed up yesterday and I filled out I look great today.... all my carbs are from brown rice/sweet potato...

You should... 1lb of broccoli is a shitload.

Carbs count... regardless of their source.

Additionally... soluble fiber adds usable calories.

Don't be caught up in the hype.

3kcals/gr are supplied with soluble fiber... It is broken down to short-chain fatty acids and absorbed in the intestines.

-CNS

**Narkissos** · 03-29-2008, 09:09 PM

I like this one better:

Originally Posted by soulstealer

And was thinking of something more like this:

Day 1 450g
Day 2 125g
Day 3 50g
Day 4 125g
Day 5 125g
Day 6 125g
Day 7 50g

^^re: IN bold above

I'm assuming that the very low carb days are your 'rest' days?

If they aren't..switch your carb-cycling protocol a little to make it so.

Personally i don't go under 150 gr while cutting.

But I don't know your bodytype etc.

So i can only advise based on what you provide.

-CNS

**soulstealer** · 03-30-2008, 05:33 PM

Originally Posted by *Narkissos*

I like this one better:

^^re: IN bold above

I'm assuming that the very low carb days are your 'rest' days?

If they aren't..switch your carb-cycling protocol a little to make it so.

Personally i don't go under 150 gr while cutting.

But I don't know your bodytype etc.

So i can only advise based on what you provide.

-CNS

Day Protein Carbs Fat Calories

Sunday 350 425 80 3820
Monday 350 125 100 2800
Tuesday 300 50 100 2300
Wednesday 350 125 100 2800
Thursday 350 125 100 2800
Friday 350 125 100 2800
Sat 300 50 100 2300

Theres what I just started on.... and yes tuesday and sat are my days off...

And BTW appreciate the responses guys... and Narkissos could why the 150g of carbs? issues with energy or what?

**Narkissos** · 03-31-2008, 12:41 AM

Originally Posted by soulstealer

.... and yes tuesday and sat are my days off...

I thought so

Originally Posted by soulstealer

And BTW appreciate the responses guys... and Narkissos could why the 150g of carbs? issues with energy or what?

Why no lower than 150?

I don't believe that any healthy male bodybuilder needs to 'low-carb' for any extended period of time.

I do incorporate 'low' carbs when i choose to carb-cycle.

However, i believe bodybuilders take 'low' to an extreme.

Below 150gr is one such extreme imo.

I believe being extremely depleted is catabolic...and exacerbates muscle-wasting.

Moderate depletion (i.e. the 'flat' look) is ok.

Extreme..no.

Additionally moderate carbs allow bodybuilders to keep training intensity high...

This factor allows the support of muscle tissue...as intensity and overload are important factors in the fight for maximum muscle retention in a caloric deficit.

@150 (<200gr) My strength stays high...and/or increases (to a point)

...and I, and my clients, maintain the majority of our musculature.

-CNS

**200byjune** · 03-29-2008, 09:15 PM

hes like 270lbs lol hes a big mofo

**Narkissos** · 03-30-2008, 05:04 AM

Originally Posted by 200byjune

hes like 270lbs lol hes a big mofo

270 lbs... I think 450 is a good re-feed point.

But 50gr is too low imo.

I'd go with:

Day 1 450g
Days 2-7: 150g

I'm only 210 lbs (5'6") by comparison...but never go under 150 lbs.

SoulStealer, what're your overall calories?

3500kcals <> I'd guess?

-CNS

**Narkissos** · 03-31-2008, 12:51 PM

^^looks pretty good.

-CNS

**soulstealer** · 03-31-2008, 12:58 PM

Originally Posted by *Narkissos*

^^looks pretty good.

-CNS

Cool thanks for all the replies man... maybe I'll give your advice a try and bump my carb intake on my days off... I just wanna see how I feel for the next week with those 75g days in there...as I still have some weight to drop and only 7 weeks left to do it

**Narkissos** · 03-31-2008, 01:11 PM

Originally Posted by soulstealer

Cool thanks for all the replies man... maybe I'll give your advice a try and bump my carb intake on my days off... I just wanna see how I feel for the next week with those 75g days in there...as I still have some weight to drop and only 7 weeks left to do it

how much is 'some' weight?

and... how does your training and cardio look?

-CNS

**soulstealer** · 03-31-2008, 01:16 PM

Originally Posted by *Narkissos*

how much is 'some' weight?

and... how does your training and cardio look?

-CNS

Training and cardio 5 days a week...

Sunday Back/Hammies
Mon Chest/Calves
Wed Quads
Thursday Shoulders/traps
Friday Arms/Abs

Cardio Every day 30 minutes PWO training sessions last on average 1:30-1:40 minutes including cardio
All cardio done at approximately 70% of my max heart rate...
Started @ 285lbs and 18% BF approximately
Currently 267.5lbs and 13-14% BF(13.5 if you go by my calipers)

Looking to drop another 14-15lbs in 7 weeks and be <10% heres the thread... if your interested...

Check out my fat ass

Will most likely be increasing my cardio as the weeks come...

Oh and BTW the 7 weeks is just a goal I set for myself.... nothing major coming up...

**Narkissos** · 04-01-2008, 02:05 PM

Originally Posted by soulstealer

Training and cardio 5 days a week...

Sunday Back/Hammies
Mon Chest/Calves
Wed Quads
Thursday Shoulders/traps
Friday Arms/Abs

I'd drop the arm day. Not enough total calories burnt on that day imo.

I'd add arms on shoulder day... or split 'em over the chest and shoulder days.

Then 'rest' on Friday..and start the training cycle over from Saturday.

Or something similar like:

Sunday: Back/Hammies
Mon: Chest/Biceps
Wed: Quads/Calves
Thursday: Shoulders/Triceps
Friday: Abs/Cardio
Saturday: Back/Hammies

Sunday: Absolute Rest
Monday: Chest/Biceps
Tuesday:Quads/Calves
Wednesday: Shoulders/Triceps
Thursday: Abs/Cardio

etc.

Originally Posted by soulstealer

Cardio Every day 30 minutes PWO training sessions last on average 1:30-1:40 minutes including cardio

In the last 6 weeks, bump your cardio to 45 minutes PWO.

Originally Posted by soulstealer

All cardio done at approximately 70% of my max heart rate...
Started @ 285lbs and 18% BF approximately
Currently 267.5lbs and 13-14% BF(13.5 if you go by my calipers)

Looking to drop another 14-15lbs in 7 weeks and be <10% heres the thread... if your interested...

Check out my fat ass

Will most likely be increasing my cardio as the weeks come...

Checked it out.. Nice progress.

Originally Posted by soulstealer

Oh and BTW the 7 weeks is just a goal I set for myself.... nothing major coming up...

Fair enough.

I wouldn't end the diet @ 7 weeks though.

I'd try to get as hard as possible.

That way, the next time you try it, it'll be easier.

Good luck.

-CNS

**Ajc330** · 04-02-2008, 09:44 AM

just speaking from personal experience, after i started to cut my carbs to a minimal i have seen changes in my bodyfat for the better, i am not the only one this works for, if you see Bonecrusher's thread in the members pictures he keeps carbs to a minimal and eats protein and fat all day

**naturalsux** · 04-02-2008, 03:16 PM

Originally Posted by Ajc330

just speaking from personal experience, after i started to cut my carbs to a minimal i have seen changes in my bodyfat for the better, i am not the only one this works for, if you see Bonecrusher's thread in the members pictures he keeps carbs to a minimal and eats protein and fat all day

you and him (BC) weigh nothing compared to Soulstealer.

i know what you saying but carbs are essential.

**soulstealer** · 04-02-2008, 06:16 PM

Originally Posted by naturalsux

you and him (BC) weigh nothing compared to Soulstealer.

i know what you saying but carbs are essential.

This is my same feeling I've been on keto and super low carb diets and I found out for me 125g ED is uber low on a training day and I can get away with 50g on off days but I need to carb up and need a vast array phytonutrients...if I go any lower muscle will fall off me like sweat and I feel weak and like shit...I think I've finally really dialed in my diet....and could reach low single digits if I gave myself enough time.... and started at a low enough body fat... but every is different and I feel some people will get better results with cyclical ketogenic I think its really personally dependent...

**Narkissos** · 04-02-2008, 10:50 PM

^^Personally I think keto-dieting is for the morbidly obese.

Not healthy male athletes.

-CNS

**Ajc330** · 04-03-2008, 09:20 AM

well everyone is different, and you are about half my bodyweight more soulstealer, so i can see you need much food to hold onto your muscle, i will be following you, just don't give up and keep your eyes on the prize, best of luck!