Slingshot Keto vs Slingshot Carb Cycling

[Bradly1234]

Sorry for hijacking btw

[eatrainrest]

Thank you much but I feel like I am kicking into aerobic at 70% my hr is over 130.

Walking at 3.5mph with incline at 2 my hr is around 100-110 where I feel confident I am not losing any muscle mass but still stripping fat.

Should I listen to my body or leave my comfort zone and up the cardio?

thats too low of a HR, under 60-65% HR will be fine.. l

[Ronnie Rowland]

while running a keto or carb cutting diet, you should incorprate cardio of some sort correct? I am guessing low intensity but what would qualify as low intensity, HR around 100 for 30 min?

CARDIO AT 120 HR is PERFECT! Time is of no essense. Do as much or as little cardio that's required to burn off the fat!

[Ronnie Rowland]

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=384553

Great post!

[Ronnie Rowland]

Thank you much but I feel like I am kicking into aerobic at 70% my hr is over 130.

Walking at 3.5mph with incline at 2 my hr is around 100-110 where I feel confident I am not losing any muscle mass but still stripping fat.

Should I listen to my body or leave my comfort zone and up the cardio?

If you stay around 100-110 thats fine given you do it for a longer duration. You do not need to worry as much about the HR when carbs are in the diet. HIIT cardio works when carbs are present given each session is brief. When in ketosis you cannot go wrong erring on the side of caution when it comes to decreasing heart rate a bit and increasing duration!

[Ronnie Rowland]

this is the most informative diet thread i have read so far!!! why protein/veg meals kept to eod???palumbo does 10 days in a row!!!

Try doing 10 days straight of protein/veggie days when your already in a depleted state and let me know what happens! Sure, you will lose body fat but you will lose some muscle as well (unless tons of protein are ingested and I do not see the point?) EOD protein/veggie meals is extremely brutal and effective so I personally cannot phathom 10 days straight! Thats said, Palumbo is a highly intelligent bodybuilder who knows his stuff.

[eatrainrest]

Great post!

thanks ron, i will also follow up with with some questions once i start carb cycling

[VASCULAR VINCE]

Try doing 10 days straight of protein/veggie days when your already in a depleted state and let me know what happens! Sure, you will lose body fat but you will lose some muscle as well (unless tons of protein are ingested and I do not see the point?) EOD protein/veggie meals is extremely brutal and effective so I personally cannot phathom 10 days straight! Thats said, Palumbo is a highly intelligent bodybuilder who knows his stuff.

i be doing good to carb..cycle...they can have every p/v meals they want....lol....ya palumbo pretty smart like yourself..

[eatrainrest]

hey ron, once i start up carb cyling, i am ging to run protein at abotu 1.5g per lb/ and follow your format for 5 low 2 high (leg and back days) method. low constitutes under 150g carbs.

my questions are where should my fat intake be per day what %?? should i just do my best to substitute those lost carbs with EFA's to stay at my maintence level or should i have a certain percent not to go over???

im following with short bursts of hgih intensity cardio for about 1.5 minuts followed by 3 min low intensity intervals up to 20 minutes probly 4-6 days per week. also i know you mentioned countin all carbs even fibrous veggies? i will be eating at my maintenance level calorie wise, and if not losing i will subtract accordingly.

m-low
tues-low
wed-high (add 150g carbs)
thurs-low
fri-low
sat-high add 300g carbs about 40g fat (i can gain with too much fats)
sun-low

i may or may not go into ketosis, depending on progress but if i do it will be 60% fats 40% protein and not over 1.5g per lb protein. one carb up/cal day will probly be sunday.

its idea to do a blasting phase through this to maintan as much muscle ass possible right?

thanks ron

[Ronnie Rowland]

hey ron, once i start up carb cyling, i am ging to run protein at abotu 1.5g per lb/ and follow your format for 5 low 2 high (leg and back days) method. low constitutes under 150g carbs. ( I do not recommend going below 150 carb per day on 5 low carb days),

my questions are where should my fat intake be per day what %?? should i just do my best to substitute those lost carbs with EFA's to stay at my maintence level or should i have a certain percent not to go over??? (Simply substitute those lost carbs with EFA'S and increase or decrease in grams as needed to make weight loss goals).

im following with short bursts of hgih intensity cardio for about 1.5 minuts followed by 3 min low intensity intervals up to 20 minutes probly 4-6 days per week. ( Becareful and not do too much HIT cardio or it could eat up all your glycogen levels and put you near ketosis-hence blood sugar will crash) also i know you mentioned countin all carbs even fibrous veggies? (No need in counting green fibrous carbs like lettuce) i will be eating at my maintenance level calorie wise, and if not losing i will subtract accordingly. (yes)

m-low
tues-low
wed-high (add 150g carbs)
thurs-low
fri-low
sat-high add 300g carbs about 40g fat (i can gain with too much fats)
sun-low

i may or may not go into ketosis, depending on progress but if i do it will be 60% fats 40% protein and not over 1.5g per lb protein. (You should use those ratios only as a beginning baseline and make adjustements if needed).
one carb up/cal day will probly be sunday. (If you begin to become too depleted as you move forward then go with 2 carb up meals. Only you will know how you respond! I get weak legged with only one carb up day a week after being in keto about 3-4 weeks where as my wife does great with only one weekly carb up meal for 8 weeks straight) its idea to do a blasting phase through this to maintan as much muscle ass possible right? (Absolutely but still employ a weekly deload at least every 4 weeks).
thanks ron

Answers above in bold!

[eatrainrest]

ok cool, yea i meant to say i stay at 150g carbs on low due to brain functions lol. i read your diet recommendations for prime, deload, and reload, and noticed that you have diff reccomendations for protein consumption and carbs . ie: reload for example would be 1.5 for me, deload 1g and primer a little less than 1 (to put me into a catbolic state). and for carbs to increase during reload, decrease deload, and increase in prime. and in reload to have less EFA'S and more in the deload. but during cutting and carb cycling, do we follow this protocol or is this off season guidlines?

[Ronnie Rowland]

ok cool, yea i meant to say i stay at 150g carbs on low due to brain functions lol. i read your diet recommendations for prime, deload, and reload, and noticed that you have diff reccomendations for protein consumption and carbs . ie: reload for example would be 1.5 for me, deload 1g and primer a little less than 1 (to put me into a catbolic state). and for carbs to increase during reload, decrease deload, and increase in prime. and in reload to have less EFA'S and more in the deload. but during cutting and carb cycling, do we follow this protocol or is this off season guidlines?

Sorry it took me so long to respond. I overlooked this one!

The protein cycling is only for off-season. When trying to gain muscle you need to stay sensitive to insulin so amino acids will be accepted by the muscle cells. The deload accomplished this by way of lower carbs and increasing fats!

Slingshot Diet off season:


RELOAD: During a reload you will need to increase carbs and protein while reducing fats. Carbs spare protein sources better than fats during a high volume training phase. More protein and carbs are needed during a reload (high volume training phase) while less is needed during a delaod (low volume training phase). Do not exceed 1-5 to 2 grams per pound of body weight during a reload!

DELOAD: During a deload less carbs are needed because your intense work sets will decrease. Protein intake will need to be reduced by .5 to 1 grams per pound of body weight. I generally take in 1.5 to 2 grams per lb of body weight during a reload and only 1-1.5 grams during a deload. Cycling your protein intake will make your body more anabolic ! During a deload you will need to keep calories the same so growth can occur. Use mostly healthy dietary fats like olive oil and ***** 3's from various nuts and smart balance peanut butter to replace the protein and carb calories that have been removed.

Insulin and amino acids:Reaching a sticking point after an extended reload phase is normal. The best way to overcome sticking points is by changing your routine with a deload. The reduced carb/protein intake during a deload will improve insulin sensitity. When more protein/carbs are added during the next reload more amino acids will be accepted by muscle cells when they are being broken down the most!

PRIME: If you are over-trained you should begin each training cycle by using strategic de-conditioning (priming phase) over a 1-2 week time span in order to down-regulate anabolic hormones and receptor sites for androgens if needed. Total work sets and weight loads are reduced during the prime to make the muscle more responsive to the stimulus of weight training. You drop protein intake in half, replace those calories with carbohydrates, and decrease calories and/or increase aerobic training to lose body fat if needed to increase insulin sensitivity. This will set up an environment for muscle growth during the following blast!

[eatrainrest]

Sorry it took me so long to respond. I overlooked this one!

The protein cycling is only for off-season. When trying to gain muscle you need to stay sensitive to insulin so amino acids will be accepted by the muscle cells. The deload accomplished this by way of lower carbs and increasing fats!

Slingshot Diet off season:


RELOAD: During a reload you will need to increase carbs and protein while reducing fats. Carbs spare protein sources better than fats during a high volume training phase. More protein and carbs are needed during a reload (high volume training phase) while less is needed during a delaod (low volume training phase). Do not exceed 1-5 to 2 grams per pound of body weight during a reload!

DELOAD: During a deload less carbs are needed because your intense work sets will decrease. Protein intake will need to be reduced by .5 to 1 grams per pound of body weight. I generally take in 1.5 to 2 grams per lb of body weight during a reload and only 1-1.5 grams during a deload. Cycling your protein intake will make your body more anabolic ! During a deload you will need to keep calories the same so growth can occur. Use mostly healthy dietary fats like olive oil and ***** 3's from various nuts and smart balance peanut butter to replace the protein and carb calories that have been removed.

Insulin and amino acids:Reaching a sticking point after an extended reload phase is normal. The best way to overcome sticking points is by changing your routine with a deload. The reduced carb/protein intake during a deload will improve insulin sensitity. When more protein/carbs are added during the next reload more amino acids will be accepted by muscle cells when they are being broken down the most!

PRIME: If you are over-trained you should begin each training cycle by using strategic de-conditioning (priming phase) over a 1-2 week time span in order to down-regulate anabolic hormones and receptor sites for androgens if needed. Total work sets and weight loads are reduced during the prime to make the muscle more responsive to the stimulus of weight training. You drop protein intake in half, replace those calories with carbohydrates, and decrease calories and/or increase aerobic training to lose body fat if needed to increase insulin sensitivity. This will set up an environment for muscle growth during the following blast!

ron, thanks again for clerification.. im giving the slingshot methodology a run in a few weeks and will post in your workout section for your last minute blessing

[Ronnie Rowland]

ron, thanks again for clerification.. im giving the slingshot methodology a run in a few weeks and will post in your workout section for your last minute blessing

I'll be watching your progress.

[VASCULAR VINCE]

my metabolism is somewhere in the middle.....im fixing to start a cut...should i try keto after 6 weeks of sling shot carb cycling????

[Ronnie Rowland]

my metabolism is somewhere in the middle.....im fixing to start a cut...should i try keto after 6 weeks of sling shot carb cycling????

stay with carb cycling!

[eatrainrest]

hey ron, again thanks for your help. i am going to give your carb cycling a shot soon but want to give you some background on my diet. i recently started dieting correctly following a 40/40/20 split recently being around 8 weeks, coming off a crash diet from getting a bit too heavy at 15% BF at 187. i got to 192 max lbs bugged out and crashed dieted to 177. then i started eating at maintenance jacking up low intensity cardio and following correct diet/training protocols. im not about 170-173, alot leaner and stronger 12-13% bf. i currently eat at maintenace and perform low intensity aerobics post workout for 30 minutes followed by immediate PWO nutrition. i want to try carb cycling, i currently intake around 235g carbs now, 285g protein, and 60g fats (efa's). i am going to be jacking up carbs to around 270 once i start your slingshot reload phase. but anyway ill show you how i proposed my carb cycling.. once i start i will also have a log with pics...

another question-if i currently eat around 240g carbs now, and carb cycle... when i come off the carb cycling should i slowly up the carbs or by going back to what i was eating will this have me gain it rapidly again?

I WILL BE EATING AT AROUND THE SAME CALORIES I CURRENTLY EAT, MAYBE SLIGHTLY LOWER BY 100-200 CALS, JUST WANT ABS TO PROTRACT BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT VISIBLE JUST YET,

CARB CYCLING,

5 LOW/2 HIGH EXAMPLE-

M-LOW 149g carbs

T-LOW 149g carbs

W-HIGHER CARB (CLEAN) AND CALORIES *INCREASE 500 CAL CARBS (150g)

R-LOW 149g carbs

F-LOW 149g carbs

SAT-HIGHER CARB (CHEAT) AND CALORIES *INCREASE CARBS AND FATS 2000 CAL (300g CARB/30-100g FAT

SUN-LOW 149g carbs

CARBS

BREAKFAST=30G CARBS EZEKIEL BREAD
INITIAL PWO-38G waxy maize
PWO MEAL-80.5g OATMEAL PANCAKES
OVERALL CARBS-149g ON LOW DAYS

WEDNESDAY CLEAN CARB UP*INCREASE 151G

OATMEAL PANCAKES BREAKFAST-80.5G
PREWORKOUT MEAL (BROWN RICE) AND 3 SLICES EZEKIEL-90G CARB
INITIAL PWO MEAL-49G CARB WAXY MAIZE
POST WORKOUT MEAL OATMEAL PANCAKES-80.5G
Total carb-300


SATURDAY CARB UP (CHEAT) INCREASE CARBS AND FATS 2000 CAL (300g CARB/30-100g FAT

BREAKFAST OATMEAL PANCAKES-80.5g carbs
PREWORKOUT MEAL (BROWN RICE) AND 3 SLICES EZEKIEL-90G CARB
INITIAL PWO MEAL-49G CARB WAXY MAIZE
POST WORKOUT MEAL- 2 slices grilled chicken pizza slices and buffalo chicken whole wheat wrap
Next carb meal-escarole and beans with pasta and bread


CARBS HERE= obviously dont have the macros but i can tell you its gnna be a hell of a cheat day and im looking forward to it because i love these food choices lol.. how does this run through look? again i was raised eating pounds of pasta daily and was never obese but was fat. havent exceeded 15-16% since probly 13 years old. i probly will never try keto because im not looking to get on stage just get as chisled as i can for my own self... plus i feel ill always need carbs but carb cycling is as far as im willing to stretch given the sucess im having with 40/40/20 split. BUT I STILL HAVE SOME LOWER GUT work to get rid of because this is wher ei genetically store most of my fat.

thanks ronnie!

[eatrainrest]

here is the actual diet, i know you hate me lol...

BMR is about 2k, my activity level is about 800-900 cals, i currently eat off days-2191 and workout days 2731
5 LOW DAYS DIET
*NON WORKOUT DAYS(150g carb)
BREAKFAST
*oatmeal pancakes (1 cup oats)
total calories-470/pro-40/fat-6/carb-67
Meal 2
1 cup brown rice 195g cooked (216) *221 g with 1 CUP MEASURMENT
Pro-5
Carb-45
Fat-2
Sugars-1
Fiber-4
4 oz. all natural turkey (120)
Pro-26
Fat-1
Total calories-336/pro-31/fat-3/carb-45
Meal 3-
-30g Ezekiel bread 2 slices (160)
Pro-8
Carb-30
Fat-1
-30g *5 servings egg white protein (150)
Pro-30
Carb-5
Total calories-280/pro-38/carb-35/fat-1
Meal 4 (every 2.5 hours)
1 cup shredded lettuce 72g
4 oz(114g) Grilled Chicken(120)
Pro-26
Fat-1
Carb-0
1 tbsp walnut oil (130)
fat-14
total calories-250/pro-26/fat-15
meal 5
1 tbsp Almond Oil/rotated with walnut/flax(130)
Fat-14
1 cup lettuce (72g)
4 oz (117g) grilled London broil (170)*exact macros from scale for 117g london broil
Pro-23
Carb-0
Fat-7
Total calories-300/pro-23/fat-14
MEAL 6
1 cup lettuce 72g
1 tbsp extra virgin olive oil (120)
Fat-14
Sat-2
4 oz (114g) (Hartford reserve All natural turkey) (120)
Pro-26
Fat-1
3G FISH OIL (45)
Fat-3
total calories -285/PRO-26/FAT-18.5/CARB-0/fiber-0
meal 7
1.5 scoop casein protein(180) *measure to 67.5g WITH 1/2 CUP MEASUREMENT
Pro-34.5
Fat-1.5
Carb-3
Sugars-0
3g fish oil (45)
Fat-3
Total calories-225/pro-34.5/fat-4.5g/carb-3/
*add 5 calories for vitamin/1g carb/1g protein
TOTAL DAILY CALORIES-2146
TOTAL PROTEIN-218.5
TOTAL CARB-150G
TOTAL FAT-62




***ON WORKOUT DAYS (NOT CHEAT OR CLEAN)***
BREAKFAST
oatmeal pancakes (1 cup oats)
total calories-470/pro-40/fat-6/carb-67
Meal 2 (pwo nutrition)
-25g isopure
-49g glycomaize(196)
TOTAL CALORIES-364 calories-pro-25/carb-49/fat-.5
Meal 3-1 hour later PWO reefed meal
-30g Ezekiel bread 2 slices (160)
Pro-8
Carb-30
Fat-1
-30g *5 servings egg white protein (150)
Pro-30
Carb-5
Total calories-280/pro-38/carb-35/fat-1
Meal 4 (every 2.5 hours)
1 cup shredded lettuce 72g
4 oz(114g) Grilled Chicken(120)
Pro-26
Fat-1
Carb-0
1 tbsp walnut oil (130)
fat-14
total calories-250/pro-26/fat-15
meal 5
1 tbsp Almond Oil (130)
Fat-14
1 cup lettuce (72g)
4 oz (117g) grilled London broil (170)*exact macros from scale for 117g london broil
Pro-23
Carb-0
Fat-7
Total calories-300/pro-23/fat-14
MEAL 6
1 cup lettuce 72g
1 tbsp extra virgin olive oil (120)
Fat-14
Sat-2
4 oz (114g) (Hartford reserve All natural turkey) (120)
Pro-26
Fat-1
3G FISH OIL (45)
Fat-3
total calories -285/PRO-26/FAT-18.5/CARB-0/fiber-0
meal 7
1 tbsp extra virgin olive oil (130)
Fat-14
1 can tuna (190)
Fat-1.5
Pro-42
Total calories-320/pro-42/fat-15.5
meal 8
1.5 scoop casein protein(180) *measure to 67.5g WITH 1/2 CUP MEASUREMENT
Pro-34.5
Fat-1.5
Carb-3
Sugars-0
3g fish oil (45)
Fat-3
1 tbsp flax oil (130)
Fat-14
Total calories-355/pro-34.5/fat-18.5g/carb-3/
*add 5 calories for vitamin/1g carb/1g protein
TOTAL DAILY CALORIES-2624
TOTAL PROTEIN-254.5
TOTAL CARB-150G
TOTAL FAT-89g








***WEDNESDAY CLEAN CARB UP DAY***
BREAKFAST
*(1.25 cups oats)
Total calories-545/pro-42.5/fat-7.5/carb-80.5/sugars-2.5/fiber-10
Meal 2
1 cup brown rice 195g cooked (216) *221 g with 1 CUP MEASURMENT
Pro-5
Carb-45
Fat-2
Sugars-1
Fiber-4
3 slices Ezekiel bread (240)
Carb-45
Fat-1.5
Pro-12
2 oz. all natural turkey (120)
Pro-13
Fat-.5
Total calories-576/pro-30/fat-4/carb-90
PWO NUTRITION MEAL 3
-25g isopure
-49g glycomaize
TOTAL CALORIES-364 calories-pro-25/carb-49/fat-.5
MEAL 4-REFEED MEAL
*OATMEAL PANCAKES
Total calories-545/pro-42.5/fat-7.5/carb-80.5/sugars-2.5/fiber-10
Meal 5 (every 2.5 hours)
1 cup shredded lettuce 72g
4 oz(114g) Grilled Chicken(120)
Pro-26
Fat-1
Carb-0
1 tbsp walnut oil (130)
fat-14
total calories-250/pro-26/fat-15
meal 6
1 tbsp Almond Oil (130)
Fat-14
1 cup lettuce (72g)
4 oz (117g) grilled London broil (170)*exact macros from scale for 117g london broil
Pro-23
Carb-0
Fat-7
Total calories-300/pro-23/fat-14
MEAL 7
1 cup lettuce 72g
1 tbsp extra virgin olive oil (120)
Fat-14
Sat-2
4 oz (114g) (Hartford reserve All natural turkey) (120)
Pro-26
Fat-1
3G FISH OIL (45)
Fat-3
total calories -285/PRO-26/FAT-18.5/CARB-0/fiber-0
meal 8
1.5 scoop casein protein(180) *measure to 67.5g WITH 1/2 CUP MEASUREMENT
Pro-34.5
Fat-1.5
Carb-3
Sugars-0
3g fish oil (45)
Fat-3
Total calories-255/pro-34.5/fat-4.5g/carb-3/
*add 5 calories for vitamin/1g carb/1g protein
Total calories-3090
TOTAL FAT-71.5
TOTAL PROTEIN-249.5g
TOTAL CARB-303g







***SATURDAY CHEAT DAY***
BREAKFAST 1
*(1.25 cups oats) oatmeal pancakes
Total calories-545/pro-42.5/fat-7.5/carb-80.5/sugars-2.5/fiber-10
Meal 2
1 cup brown rice 195g cooked (216) *221 g with 1 CUP MEASURMENT
Pro-5
Carb-45
Fat-2
Sugars-1
Fiber-4
3 slices Ezekiel bread (240)
Carb-45
Fat-1.5
Pro-12
2 oz. all natural turkey (120)
Pro-13
Fat-.5
Total calories-576/pro-30/fat-4/carb-90
PWO NUTRITION MEAL 3
-25g isopure/pro complex (168) AT 91.2G 1 cup
-49g glycomaize/oats (196) AT 82G 1 cup *combine
TOTAL CALORIES-364 calories-pro-25/carb-49/fat-.5
MEAL 4-REFEED MEAL
2 slices grilled chicken pizza with buffalo chicken wrap

MEAL 5
OATMEAL PANCAKES 1.25 CUPS
Total calories-545/pro-42.5/fat-7.5/carb-80.5/sugars-2.5/fiber-10
MEAL 6
Escarole and beans with pasta and bread
Meal 7 (every 2.5 hours)
1 cup shredded lettuce 72g
4 oz(114g) Grilled Chicken(120)
Pro-26
Fat-1
Carb-0
1 tbsp walnut oil (130)
fat-14
3G FISH OIL (45)
Fat-3
total calories-250/pro-26/fat-15
meal 8
1.5 scoop casein protein(180) *measure to 67.5g WITH 1/2 CUP MEASUREMENT
Pro-34.5
Fat-1.5
Carb-3
Sugars-0
3g fish oil (45)
Fat-3
Total calories-255/pro-34.5/fat-4.5g/carb-3/