My diet and my goals..

[collar]

Jam,
Thinking of putting a BCAA prior to my morning 45 (Low Intense) cardio. Thoughts? Can you recommend a good brand?

My other option is for 1 scoop whey (20g prot), 2g leucine

I have read the empty stomache routine and have seen both sides.

if you were to buy bcaas, you can have them first thing in morning or after your cardio in the am.

but you can also just have whey shake after your am cardio.

brands they all very, you want something gives you about 5g per serving and where you get about 2500mg of leucine.

you can also get good quality whey protein that has high amount of bcaa per serve..

[Reed]

Here is my input on the subject as this is similar to the chicken and the egg convo.

I wouldn't use anything before your morning cardio as you want to keep in the fasted state and your body will utilize it for energy. Most shakes have carbs and you want to keep insulin at bay as the whole reason behind empty stomach cardio is after fasting for several hours and overnight this does results in lower insulin concentrations in the blood which this facilitates fat oxidation due to the fact insulin is a necessary storage hormorne which reduces the signal (cAMP) within a cell that breaks things down such as glycogen and fat within our muscle tissue. We don't want this signal to be reduced So lower insulin concentration in our blood can be helpful if our goal is to burn fat. But just like estrogen, insulin is not a bad hormone and is needed for muscle mass and other body functions. Maybe others that are more studied than I can help further what i have said or correct anything I was wrong in.

BUT at the same time some have used the shake and said they have been successful by doing this. I do not however for my own personal reasons and research

Some suggest don't use any BCAA's or anything ('cept maybe a thermogenic like caffeine) as your body may convert those to glucose via gluconeogensis.

THEN I have seen suggestions to the contrary that using a BCAA formula is beneficial


Me personally I usually just do a thermo before my cardio as my belief that the whole scary catabolism of muscle is WAAAAAAAAAAY overrated. Do you see me melting away, or skinny as shit? No your body is designed to go for much longer periods than 30-60 minutes of low intensity cardio without any food or nutrients. So you're not going to shrivel up and die. This is just what works for me and as with most things in training and dieting you gotta figure out what works for you via the ole trial and error process as this is not an overnight thing, one month thing, one year thing, or even 3 year thing. Takes time.... and lots of it

Tons of top level bodybuilders believe people tend to way over think this morning cardio thing. Just wake up, take your thermo (caffeine, ECA), do your cardio and then meal 1. Simple easy

Maybe others can come through like C Bino, Nark, Fireguy, and/or Phate to share there knowledge and experience

Now back to bed

Good luck

[sizerp]

I think Phate does caffeine and whey + water for AM cardio. From what I remember, at least...

[collar]

personally empty stomach cardio, then whey with some bcaas.
i just keep it simple and provide my body with as much nutrients as i can after my cardio.

[jwahoski]

Thanks so much for the feedback...I will try empty 100% first and see how it works out

Like it was said, trial and error

[C_Bino]

Here is my input on the subject as this is similar to the chicken and the egg convo.

I wouldn't use anything before your morning cardio as you want to keep in the fasted state and your body will utilize it for energy. Most shakes have carbs and you want to keep insulin at bay as the whole reason behind empty stomach cardio is after fasting for several hours and overnight this does results in lower insulin concentrations in the blood which this facilitates fat oxidation due to the fact insulin is a necessary storage hormorne which reduces the signal (cAMP) within a cell that breaks things down such as glycogen and fat within our muscle tissue. We don't want this signal to be reduced So lower insulin concentration in our blood can be helpful if our goal is to burn fat. But just like estrogen, insulin is not a bad hormone and is needed for muscle mass and other body functions. Maybe others that are more studied than I can help further what i have said or correct anything I was wrong in.

BUT at the same time some have used the shake and said they have been successful by doing this. I do not however for my own personal reasons and research

Some suggest don't use any BCAA's or anything ('cept maybe a thermogenic like caffeine) as your body may convert those to glucose via gluconeogensis.

THEN I have seen suggestions to the contrary that using a BCAA formula is beneficial


Me personally I usually just do a thermo before my cardio as my belief that the whole scary catabolism of muscle is WAAAAAAAAAAY overrated. Do you see me melting away, or skinny as shit? No your body is designed to go for much longer periods than 30-60 minutes of low intensity cardio without any food or nutrients. So you're not going to shrivel up and die. This is just what works for me and as with most things in training and dieting you gotta figure out what works for you via the ole trial and error process as this is not an overnight thing, one month thing, one year thing, or even 3 year thing. Takes time.... and lots of it

Tons of top level bodybuilders believe people tend to way over think this morning cardio thing. Just wake up, take your thermo (caffeine, ECA), do your cardio and then meal 1. Simple easy

Maybe others can come through like C Bino, Nark, Fireguy, and/or Phate to share there knowledge and experience

Now back to bed

Good luck

I definitely advocate BCAA's before cardio. Will the difference be huge...well not sure, but they benefits are there and I can feel them and have seen them in scientific studies.

The thing is, yes gluconeogensis plays a role here, but I see that as a benefit. If you aren't going for keto than I wouldnt be worrying about this anyways...and even in Keto I would still use BCAA's.

BCAA's can be converted to alanine and glutamine, which can act as intermediates in the kreb cycle to form glucose...what this means is that BCAA's and this alanine and glutamine are glycogen sparring in action and allow you to preserve more glycogen stores and thus also buffer the onset of lactic acid.

That's the whole idea behind people using beta-alanine...or even sodium bicarbonate back in the day, they buffer positive hydorgen ions (free radicals), create a more aklaline environment.

I agree with you about the insulin etc. and that's why I dont ever suggest having whey before cardio...people think carbs are the only thing that can affect insulin lol.

And I also agree that people take the catabolims thing too far. If you are dieting than you are dieting and you are probably gonna lose some damn muscle...but eat your 6-7 meals a day and live with it. That's the best you can do, especially if you are using AAS than people need to stop worrying so much, keep whole food in your body all day long and keep thae cardio up rather than dropping the carbs real low.

[C_Bino]

personally empty stomach cardio, then whey with some bcaas.
i just keep it simple and provide my body with as much nutrients as i can after my cardio.

Try sipping the BCAA's during cardio or directly after and whey 20min after that.

I just wrote up the reasons in another thread. But free form amino's or even peptide bonded side chains like BCAA's are best on empty stomach.

[collar]

fair enough.
i may even go first thing in morning bcaas and whey after cardio.
cause i do my cardio in the am on empty stomach.

so i might utilise that theory by doing bcaas first thing and whey after cardio.

[collar]

Try sipping the BCAA's during cardio or directly after and whey 20min after that.

I just wrote up the reasons in another thread. But free form amino's or even peptide bonded side chains like BCAA's are best on empty stomach.

one more thing bino.

is it possible to do whey and bcaas after cardio.
straight after that is......... then wait 45 min to hour and consume the regular pro/carb meal or what ever the next meal was??

why i ask this in other thread you speak of the ones that have pro/dex pwo, which hinders and slows the digestion of the protein and bcaas.

i personally just have low gi carbs for pwo.

but i am just trying put it out there, do you think then it may be fine to have the bcaas and whey together. if you eliminated the carbs source with it but consumed it just straight after the am cardio.

then hour later had your meal..

ofcourse thats just for am cardio i speak of, can it be possible to do that??

[jwahoski]

Ok, being on my diet for a week and I have develop the worst case of gas in my life...is this normal with my meal plan? It is so bad, I even have to walk out of the room!!!

Is there any issues taking Tums or Pepto or anything like that? If not, is there any specific time not to take them?

[Narkissos]

Here is my input on the subject as this is similar to the chicken and the egg convo.

I wouldn't use anything before your morning cardio as you want to keep in the fasted state and your body will utilize it for energy. Most shakes have carbs and you want to keep insulin at bay as the whole reason behind empty stomach cardio is after fasting for several hours and overnight this does results in lower insulin concentrations in the blood which this facilitates fat oxidation due to the fact insulin is a necessary storage hormorne which reduces the signal (cAMP) within a cell that breaks things down such as glycogen and fat within our muscle tissue. We don't want this signal to be reduced So lower insulin concentration in our blood can be helpful if our goal is to burn fat. But just like estrogen, insulin is not a bad hormone and is needed for muscle mass and other body functions. Maybe others that are more studied than I can help further what i have said or correct anything I was wrong in.

BUT at the same time some have used the shake and said they have been successful by doing this. I do not however for my own personal reasons and research

Some suggest don't use any BCAA's or anything ('cept maybe a thermogenic like caffeine) as your body may convert those to glucose via gluconeogensis.

THEN I have seen suggestions to the contrary that using a BCAA formula is beneficial


Me personally I usually just do a thermo before my cardio as my belief that the whole scary catabolism of muscle is WAAAAAAAAAAY overrated. Do you see me melting away, or skinny as shit? No your body is designed to go for much longer periods than 30-60 minutes of low intensity cardio without any food or nutrients. So you're not going to shrivel up and die. This is just what works for me and as with most things in training and dieting you gotta figure out what works for you via the ole trial and error process as this is not an overnight thing, one month thing, one year thing, or even 3 year thing. Takes time.... and lots of it

Tons of top level bodybuilders believe people tend to way over think this morning cardio thing. Just wake up, take your thermo (caffeine, ECA), do your cardio and then meal 1. Simple easy

Maybe others can come through like C Bino, Nark, Fireguy, and/or Phate to share there knowledge and experience

Now back to bed

Good luck

Solid post.

[Narkissos]

Ok, being on my diet for a week and I have develop the worst case of gas in my life...is this normal with my meal plan? It is so bad, I even have to walk out of the room!!!

Is there any issues taking Tums or Pepto or anything like that? If not, is there any specific time not to take them?

Looking at your diet, it isn't surprising.

Very little fiber listed... and a lot of protein.

I'd assume that you don't use digestive enzymes either.

Am I correct?

Before you look for an antacid, look into Betaine HCL, bromelaine, and pepsin.

An antacid would be counter-intuitive.

-CNS

[almostgone]

Looking at your diet, it isn't surprising.

Very little fiber listed... and a lot of protein.

I'd assume that you don't use digestive enzymes either.

Am I correct?

Before you look for an antacid, look into Betaine HCL, bromelaine, and pepsin.

An antacid would be counter-intuitive.

-CNS

I've found bromelaine and betaine to be effective on TF (terminal flatulence). I sometimes neglect my psyllium husk and fibrous veggies and the effects don't take long to appear. Seem like they increase acid in the stomach so, as Nark pointed out, an anti-acid would definitely be the wrong way to go.

AG

[almostgone]

...some people swear by plain yogurt, but I think the supps Nark mentioned will help.

AG

[Narkissos]

...some people swear by plain yogurt

re: yogurt, I'm allergic to lactose and milk proteins... even in small amounts.

So I avoid foods/supps which contain either

Some people do get awesome results with plain yogurt however... I must agree.

Good to see you around btw B.

[Narkissos]

I've found bromelaine and betaine to be effective on TF (terminal flatulence). I sometimes neglect my psyllium husk and fibrous veggies and the effects don't take long to appear.

Agreed.

I ran out of psyllium and regretted it the same day

[almostgone]

re: yogurt, I'm allergic to lactose and milk proteins... even in small amounts.

So I avoid foods/supps which contain either

Some people do get awesome results with plain yogurt however... I must agree.

Good to see you around btw B.

You too, man. LOL, I just need more hours in the day.

AG

[C_Bino]

one more thing bino.

is it possible to do whey and bcaas after cardio.
straight after that is......... then wait 45 min to hour and consume the regular pro/carb meal or what ever the next meal was??

why i ask this in other thread you speak of the ones that have pro/dex pwo, which hinders and slows the digestion of the protein and bcaas.

i personally just have low gi carbs for pwo.

but i am just trying put it out there, do you think then it may be fine to have the bcaas and whey together. if you eliminated the carbs source with it but consumed it just straight after the am cardio.

then hour later had your meal..

ofcourse thats just for am cardio i speak of, can it be possible to do that??

You can do that. I just dont see the need, whey is already high in BCAA's so adding more to just be absorbed with the protein probably wont make a big difference because as soon as the whey hits you are going to blunt cortisol and catabolism so the extra BCAA's wont have any real impact as they would when consumed alone on an empty stomach.

Just a waste...keep the BCAA's and take them in between meals instead.

[collar]

You can do that. I just dont see the need, whey is already high in BCAA's so adding more to just be absorbed with the protein probably wont make a big difference because as soon as the whey hits you are going to blunt cortisol and catabolism so the extra BCAA's wont have any real impact as they would when consumed alone on an empty stomach.

Just a waste...keep the BCAA's and take them in between meals instead.

sweet thanks for that post bino, good help.

yeah i did think that whey had enough bcaas in it so didnt need to add.

i thought i may ask.

utilise bcaas at a better time, i guess.

empty stomach it is.

thanks.......

[C_Bino]

Anytime man. Like I said, I do BCAA`s before cardio or even throughout cardio then whole food after.

[energizer bunny]

another great read from the.....main guys...excellent..

[jwahoski]

Thanks for all the great feedback on my post You guys are seriously helping me out.

Looking into Betaine HCL is a little scarey...can anyone suggest a modification to my diet to include some fiber that won't offset things too much. Bromelain does not look too bad of a suppliment...nevermind, I just found the side effects (below)...I can also do a non-fat yogurt as well, any idea where I should put that in my meal plan? Actually, I am still a little high on protein% so adding a bit more carbs would be good.

Directions For Use of Betaine HCL
When using Betaine HCL with Pepsin for the first few times, please be sure to follow the directions carefully. Always take Betaine HCL at the start of the meal! If taken without food, stomach burning may result.

1. At the very start of the meal, take one capsule of Betaine HCL. Monitor how your stomach feels during and after eating. Should any burning or heaviness occur, or if burning has been present previously (before taking the supplement) and is now worsened with the use of the Betaine HCL, do not continue using this supplement!!! This is an indication that your stomach is overproducing acid, or that your stomach lining may be damaged. In such cases, please consider the use of Alkabase, Gastric Complex-HP and/or Mastica, to normalize excess acid production and heal the stomach lining.

2. If the first dose of Betaine HCL produced no noticeable stomach discomfort, try taking two capsules at the start of your next meal, again monitor for burning and or heaviness during and after eating. If taking two capsules produces some discomfort, but one capsule does not, restrict yourself to one capsule at the start of each meal. If the two capsule dose produced no discomfort, try three capsules at the start of your next meal.

3. If all goes well when taking three capsules at the start of each meal, stay with that dosage, most individuals will not require increasing the dosage to four capsules. Regular use of supplemental hydrochloric acid will in most cases "re-train" the stomach to produce higher concentrations of acid on its own. This process may take anywhere from several weeks to several months, depending on the individual. The most significant indication that acid production is improving is that Betaine HCL supplementation can no longer be comfortably tolerated.


bromelain
There have been reports of allergic reactions to bromelain. Other known side effects of this supplement include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and menorrhagia (excessively heavy menstrual flow).

[jwahoski]

Agreed.

I ran out of psyllium and regretted it the same day

I also read up on Psyllium....are there seriously risks and a doctor needs to be consulted? And you can choke on it when you do not drink it with enough water!!?!?!?

[almostgone]

Psyllium husk is kind of thick when mixed with water, but it's not anything terrible.

AG

[almostgone]

I may be mistaken, but i believe Metamucil is basically psyllium husk.

AG

[Narkissos]

bromelain
There have been reports of allergic reactions to bromelain. Other known side effects of this supplement include nausea, vomiting, diarrhea, and menorrhagia (excessively heavy menstrual flow).

These side effects are not the norm.

I run 1500mg every 3 hours tru-out the day, year-round.

My clients (both males and females) do as well.

No adverse effects.

[jwahoski]

Thanks, yea Metamucil is the exact same thing. Thanks again Nark, Iwill be posting my 2 week progress pictures next week...seems I have made great strides

[C_Bino]

If you are using psyllium I would put a table spoon into room temp water, drink and then follow with one more full glass of water. It form's a mucilage because its soluble and you wanna make sure you take in enough water with it.

[almostgone]

If you are using psyllium I would put a table spoon into room temp water, drink and then follow with one more full glass of water. It form's a mucilage because its soluble and you wanna make sure you take in enough water with it.

...and don't leave it sitting on the counter and forget about it. I did and had a nice tall glass of goop.

AG

[jwahoski]

Guys, I did the Metamucil this weekend and I felt more "regular" :-) Awesome suggestion but I get crap from friends saying "You must be getting old taking Metamucil" We will show them old in 1 month!

Thanks for all the help!

[Narkissos]

but I get crap from friends saying "You must be getting old taking Metamucil" We will show them old in 1 month!

Ignore 'em... You neither have anything to prove nor explain.

[jamyjamjr]

Ok, being on my diet for a week and I have develop the worst case of gas in my life...is this normal with my meal plan? It is so bad, I even have to walk out of the room!!!

Is there any issues taking Tums or Pepto or anything like that? If not, is there any specific time not to take them?

yea, the gas is normal.. it should subside after a while..

pepto has a shit load of iron in it that binds on to everything in your damn stomach.. i would stay away from it...

deal with the gas... learn to hold your farts..

[jwahoski]

Ok,

So in 2 weeks of solid dieting (1 cheat day...bad) I have gone down from 205 to 203, but I have noticed SIGNIFICANT differences in my weight. My "love" handles are noticeably smaller and my belly has seen great reductions. I am going to post up pictures in about 1-2 weeks to track a month. I honestly feel I have dropped 1-2% body fat. Amazing what a good diet can do!