Clean mass or dirty mass

**baseline_9** · 12-06-2009, 03:49 PM

Just a question for people who have been there and already done it.

so im 5ft 7, 190 lbs about 13% bf and want to eventually be 215lbs and maintain around about 7-9% BF

which method do you think will get you there the quickest

a bulkey bulk where i will add more fat but possibly gain more actuall muscle aswell followed by a big cutting diet and cycle

or

a clean gaining diet where gains will be slower but fat gains will be less followded by a cutting diet and a cycle

if im not making sense then slap me

**baseline_9** · 12-06-2009, 04:01 PM

....

**Twist** · 12-06-2009, 04:34 PM

Clean bulk. I don't ever see a need for a dirty bulk. just eat carbs at every meal and make sure you are never short on nutrients. post a diet.

***FireGuy*** · 12-06-2009, 04:46 PM

So your goal is to add 33lbs of muscle and lose 8lbs of fat. You realize at 5'7 & 215lbs at 8% bodyfat you should be able to diet for 4 weeks and win just about state or local level show.

**baseline_9** · 12-07-2009, 12:58 AM

Originally Posted by FireGuy1

So your goal is to add 33lbs of muscle and lose 8lbs of fat. You realize at 5'7 & 215lbs at 8% bodyfat you should be able to diet for 4 weeks and win just about state or local level show.

LOL i ment so say 'for example' haha.

but yeh that would be nice

whats your opinion

**baseline_9** · 12-07-2009, 01:09 AM

This isnt an exact diet,just a guideline, i switch carb sources every few days, potatoes, sweet potatoes, white rice brown rice some whole bread

i dont add any cheat days atm.

07.30 - Shake (2 scoops whey, 100g oats, half a bannana, 600ml semi skimmed milk)

09.45 - 2 x Tuna mayo Sarnies (1 tin tuna, 4 slices of wholewheat bread)

12.00 - 1.5 cup's rice or pasta with 175g chicken or Beef (chilli con carne or stew from beef shin)

14.30 - Same as meal 3 (previous meal)

17.00 - Same as meal 3

Usually train here at 18.30

19.45 - PWO Shake - 100g Dextrose 60g Whey Water

20.45 -sometimes another meal similar to meal 3 but with less carbs

21.45 - 500g low fat cottage cheese

not sure on the macros, this is a diet that i have over time modified to work for me, carbs go up and down depending on training days, i will adding some more protein to this diet shortly as i have made good gains reciently and need to support the added muscle

**Twist** · 12-07-2009, 02:27 AM

dude I can't look at the diet with a good perspective right now, but you need 2 meals of beef per day. get that in atleast. 1 before bed and one soon after breakfast which should be eggs or fish, not protein shake.

**Klimax** · 12-07-2009, 09:58 AM

Brown rice and white rice, sweet potatoe and potatoe have not the same quality as carb sources.

How can you have 600ml milk?
You shoul add some veggies and efas.

Some don't agree with simple sugars postwo.

**baseline_9** · 12-07-2009, 02:19 PM

Originally Posted by Klimax

Brown rice and white rice, sweet potatoe and potatoe have not the same quality as carb sources.

How can you have 600ml milk?
You shoul add some veggies and efas.

Some don't agree with simple sugars postwo.

I do understand that, like i said, carbs go up and down and also change depending of trining.

eg if i dont train i would eat less high GI carbs and more low Gi carbs

if i am training that day i would eat more Higher GI carbs around my training

agree tht i need more veggies

what u mean by how can i have 600ml milk?

i believe that high GI carbs are esential PWO to spike insulin and replenish glycogen stores.

**baseline_9** · 12-07-2009, 02:22 PM

i have also now strated taking 5 boiled eggs to work and having them inbetween meals

**baseline_9** · 12-07-2009, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by Twist

dude I can't look at the diet with a good perspective right now, but you need 2 meals of beef per day. get that in atleast. 1 before bed and one soon after breakfast which should be eggs or fish, not protein shake.

Kool, why do u reccomend agains not having a shake in the morning, it is more than just 25g of whey,the macros for the shake come in at about 120g carbs, 68g protien, about 10g fat

i respect ur opinions tho Twist

**Twist** · 12-07-2009, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by baseline_9

Kool, why do u reccomend agains not having a shake in the morning, it is more than just 25g of whey,the macros for the shake come in at about 120g carbs, 68g protien, about 10g fat

i respect ur opinions tho Twist

You are clean bulking and you are waking up depleted and then not eating any real food for like 3 hours. that is catabolic. Also a shake is shit and a supplement. No way your body takes in all of that from the shake. I have seen eggs pass through my digestive system in like an hour and a half, an those are not liquid. no way your body assimilates 68g protein from that; but I will tell you what it will take from it... Simple sugars. simple sugars + no protein = fat gain.

**baseline_9** · 12-08-2009, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by Twist

You are clean bulking and you are waking up depleted and then not eating any real food for like 3 hours. that is catabolic. Also a shake is shit and a supplement. No way your body takes in all of that from the shake. I have seen eggs pass through my digestive system in like an hour and a half, an those are not liquid. no way your body assimilates 68g protein from that; but I will tell you what it will take from it... Simple sugars. simple sugars + no protein = fat gain.

cheers, from tomorrow i will have somtimg like 4 whole eggs and 4 egg white and 100g oats, what u recan