Fatman’s IF Journey.

[GirlyGymRat]

i ate all my calories in one sitting....and am still feeling sick....6 hours later. i must have done this wrong...cuz my stomach feels like i stretched it.

[fatman225]

i ate all my calories in one sitting....and am still feeling sick....6 hours later. i must have done this wrong...cuz my stomach feels like i stretched it.

It does mentally help with your fast tomorrow however, as you wont even want to look at food.

Next time try breaking them into 3 meals, within a 5 hour time frame. This way you don't feel like you stretched your inside.

It does not have to be all at once.

You get a few extra points for motivation however.

[bikeral]

Just read through your thread. Looking forward to seeing your results.

[fatman225]

Just read through your thread. Looking forward to seeing your results.

You and me both!

[GirlyGymRat]

[QUOTE=fatman225;6064080]It does mentally help with your fast tomorrow however, as you wont even want to look at food.

Next time try breaking them into 3 meals, within a 5 hour time frame. This way you don't feel like you stretched your inside.

It does not have to be all at once.

You get a few extra points for motivation however.[/QUOTE]

I did eat today, but not much. I am hungry NOW.

IS IF recommended for folks with diabetes controlled mainly thru diet???

[fatman225]

Yikes! Weighed myself in today at 210 pounds.

I have not been this light in a long time. Strangely my strength is up, but I don't think I've gained any muscle size. I think it is CNS improvement from not having low levels of inflamation all the time really.

At this point I do not care even if I lost a little bit of muscle. Big muscles on a guy who does non-strength athlete are useless if you cannot see them at all anyway.

Had my bodyfat% tested again today, calipers at the gym, use same ones every time, that way even if its not perfectly accurate, for my use its decent to track progress none the less. Said 16%. I still can grab some fat around my lose handles and stomach. Its like my bodyfat concentrate in my midsection, so my 16% does not "look" as good as it should. ONly solution, take it even lower. My goal is around 8%, and then to maintain it. Basically look good.

've been doing IF since I was up at around 250 pounds, with unknown bodyfat%. It is to the point where it is easy for me.

I am thinking of starting my first cycle really soon too.

I've read a LOT about IF, and I realize that there has been very little experimenting with it and AAS.

Some people have been telling me that I will not benefit from the test on IF, as I "need" a ton of extra calories to build muscle while on AAS. I'm not so sure, and challenging conventional "wisdom".

We really don't "know" unless we "try". I won't cry if I wasted one 12 week cycle of 500mg of Testosterone Cypionate .

What I aim to do is exactly what I am doing right now, keep calories the same, stay on IF, train fasted, just add in the test. Already have arimidex on hand for if I need it, plenty, and clomid for PCT. I'm in my 30's and have been lifting weights, as a major part of my lifestyle since I was a teenager. Always been the strong but fat guy.

Now that I have learned how to take my bodyfat% lower, I feel ready to up the ante and speed up this cutting process. This may turn it into more of a re-comp, and at least will learn weather it does OR does not work for me to use test while cutting. I might even gain muscle despite being in a caloric "deficit".

I think some guys need the surplus of calories while on cycle, but those guys do not have the bodyfat to use for calories. In my case, I'm at about the upper limit for bodyfat% to be starting a cycle. There are plenty of calories there to burn for energy while the protein is used for muscle repair.

[fatman225]

IS IF recommended for folks with diabetes controlled mainly thru diet???

I really did not look into that as I don't have diabetes.

I HAVE read that it improves insulin sensitivity.

It seems that an acute spike in insulin in a short space of time is not as bad as chronic low grade elevation.

[fatman225]

I should say that "technically" this will not be my 'first" cycle. I had used some stuff while I was in the Army, but mostly for athletic type performance reasons, promotions factoring in PT scores, strength, holding muscle while running 5 miles a day. They were just orals like winny, var etc... used for about 50 days at a shot, not pct, just half hazzard stupidity when given a 50 days worth from one of our guys who sold to anyone in the company who knew him well. This will be my first time doing it right, and the first time using anything in about 5 years. In terms of physiology, it might as well be a first cycle. Blood work already done, got my baselines, and gear + pct is in hand.

[AXx]

12 week cycle of 500mg of Testosterone Cypionate .

What I aim to do is exactly what I am doing right now, keep calories the same, stay on IF, train fasted, just add in the test. Already have arimidex on hand for if I need it, plenty, and clomid for PCT. I'm in my 30's and have been lifting weights, as a major part of my lifestyle since I was a teenager. Always been the strong but fat guy.

Now that I have learned how to take my bodyfat% lower, I feel ready to up the ante and speed up this cutting process. This may turn it into more of a re-comp, and at least will learn weather it does OR does not work for me to use test while cutting. I might even gain muscle despite being in a caloric "deficit".

I think some guys need the surplus of calories while on cycle, but those guys do not have the bodyfat to use for calories. In my case, I'm at about the upper limit for bodyfat% to be starting a cycle. There are plenty of calories there to burn for energy while the protein is used for muscle repair.

I did a slapshot version of Cyp 5 yrs ago and gained a ton of size. I did a foul cycle at best. I didnt have anything on hand for gyno nor did I have a PCT. I did waste my money. Hopefully in the near future I can have a redo.

Good luck and I will stay on top of this to see the results!!

[fatman225]

Above I said 500mg, that is a typo, 600 is the amount I am going to use. I chose that amount due to knowing it has been STUDIED under controlled conditions at that dose, and was shown to be rather safe, and that those using such dose cleary gained more muscle than those taking 300mg. 600 it is. I will front load with 600 all at once, then from that point out every wednesday and saturday take 300mg, for a total of 600mg weekly.

I will be running BOTH Proviron at 50mg ED and 0.25mg oed of arimidex . I would otherwise use just one or another, but I am well aware that being at the upper limit of bodyfat during a cycle means more aromitase is there, due to the fat, so I will be using both.

If I have any sides from E2 going too low (low sex drive, difficulty sleeping) I will emediately drop the Arimidex. I have HCG on hand, but prefer to save it for a later cycle. I know some guys swear by it in all cycles, but I know several guys who recover from LONG cycles, with no HCG at all, just clomid after the cycle is over.

I think some folks are paranoid of hard shut down, but I think that is more rare than we think. Tesosterone has been studied at 200mg weekly for up to two years as a contraceptive, obviously with no HCG, and the guys were ALL able to be back to normal testosterone levels within 6 months, even without clomid or any PCT.

Simply this, starting tomorrow morning:

Week 1-12: 300mg test cyp 2x EW
Week 1-12: 50mg proviron ED
Week 1-12: 0.25mg arimidex oed (will drop if erection or sleep problems show up)
Week 14-15: 50mg clomid ED
Week 16-17: 25mg clomid ED

So a four week pct, simple cyle. That is part of the point, keeping it simple. Combining IF and AAS has not been experimented by many guys yet, so here goes.

The goal of the cycle is to hold all muscle while cutting down to 8% bodyfat. If I end up getting even lower bodyfat OR gain muscle that is just a bonus.

Diet will be staying on IF. Goal is to be around 1600 cals daily, since the whole point is to be cutting.

Training will be basic bodybuilding style workout. Nothing overly complex. Cardio will be at least eod 30-45 minutes low intensity on treadmill.

[Tx89]

Very interested in seeing how this goes!
I cant see it not working man, the test should do a great job in saving your muscle, even while dieting with rather low calories and fasting IF style! Cutting bf in half to 8%in 12 weeks is an amitious goal I think, but you should be able to recomp to 10-12% no problem. While not losing muscle or strength:-) nice and simple Cycle man, good luck

[AXx]

What BF% you at now?

nevermind I found it 16%!!!

[GirlyGymRat]

oh..the dreaded bf%...how did you calculate It...scale, calipers...other way?

[fatman225]

oh..the dreaded bf%...how did you calculate It...scale, calipers...other way?

Jusct calipers.

I'm not concerned with hitting an "exact" figure.

If I was I would pick a more precise method. All I'm interested in is knowing for sure I am moving in the correct direction. the mirror says the same thing, moving in the right direction.

Not to mention physics. If you burn 3000 cals as your TDEE, and you don't take in more than 2000, well is physically impossible to not lose weight/bodyfat. So far as I know, unless that Einstienian law on matter cannot be made from nothing has suddenly been proven wrong.

[fatman225]

Ok, first inject done. 3ml, right upper thigh. Could not easily reach glute. Little nervous sticking it in, so did it quick, but other than the pinch no too bad. Feels like I got hit in the thigh with a baseball bat.

50mg proviron this morning. I will wait on the anastrozole until after week two, as I have been told that it takes a little while for the aromotase enzyme to catch up to the new level of testosterone .

Feeling particularly horny, which may be placebo effect. How long does it take the proviron to kick in?

Anyway, got a wedding reception tonight, Will eat about 4 oz. steak before I leave at 5:00pm, just because I do not know the quality of the food there yet.

[yannick35]

I am back on IF, i tried a lot so far , Eat stop Eat, but i feel there is too much loose on this diet, the warrior diet mmmmm some people at the gym did it for 3 months then got blood tested, terrible results. Fast -19 not bad, right now i am doing the renegade diet that i really love.

The magic of IF is that after a few day of fasting for 15-18 hours you will simply lose your appetit, after that the weight comes off. The only part about IF i don't like is that you need to force feed yourself. You lose sugar urge, and a lot more.

It makes it a lot easier to stick to a low carb diet, then at night introduce carbs again.

Keep us updated on your log i live to hear about how IF works on other people.

[fatman225]

One thing on blood work, is that people on IF often can see cholesterol skyrocket.

That IS the body releasing fats to be burned as fuel.

Some folks see the high cholesterol and get worried.

The other thing to consider is that is NOT cholesterol causing plaque and hardening of arteries.

This is cause by inflammation, that causes the cholesterol to form into plaque, in an attempt to heal the affected area from the inflammation.

Well, fasting drastically reduces inflammation.

This is why I am not concerned if I see high cholesterol. There are people with super high LDL cholesterol who have very little plaque, and people with low LDL who have clogged arteries.

Then there is also a difference with small and large particle LDL, and many test do not differentiate the two.

I’m not sold at all on the cholesterol theory of heart disease, but the inflammation theory has strong merits.

Anyway, I use the 19/5 split every day too.

Brad Pilon knows his stuff about fasting, but the part about "eatstopeat" that I don’t like is that the 2 to 3 times a week fasts are harder to addapt to than something you do every day, at least for me. He’s not opposed to guys using other schedules anyhow, his big soap box is the concept of Intermittent Fasting being safe and effective in general.

[yannick35]

One thing on blood work, is that people on IF often can see cholesterol skyrocket.

That IS the body releasing fats to be burned as fuel.

Some folks see the high cholesterol and get worried.

The other thing to consider is that is NOT cholesterol causing plaque and hardening of arteries.

This is cause by inflammation, that causes the cholesterol to form into plaque, in an attempt to heal the affected area from the inflammation.

Well, fasting drastically reduces inflammation.

This is why I am not concerned if I see high cholesterol. There are people with super high LDL cholesterol who have very little plaque, and people with low LDL who have clogged arteries.

Then there is also a difference with small and large particle LDL, and many test do not differentiate the two.

I’m not sold at all on the cholesterol theory of heart disease, but the inflammation theory has strong merits.

Anyway, I use the 19/5 split every day too.

Brad Pilon knows his stuff about fasting, but the part about "eatstopeat" that I don’t like is that the 2 to 3 times a week fasts are harder to addapt to than something you do every day, at least for me. He’s not opposed to guys using other schedules anyhow, his big soap box is the concept of Intermittent Fasting being safe and effective in general.

Great reply fatman please keep us posted i am very interested hearing about your results, what people don't realize is that cholesterol is very important in the body, even the dreaded Dr Mercola has posted on this at some point on is website, cholesterol being too low is worst. Men need cholesterol because its used to produce testosterone . Also fasting helps with GH.

I still eat 3 times per day but i love the fasting and how quick it works. It also does not screw me up like low carb and ketosis. I am also taking 150mg of suspension during my prolotherapy treatment being injected in the ligaments to repair, and 1IU GH per day.

I start eating at Noon each day and need to force feed myself. Fasting has this effect that at some point you stop feeling hungry, carving sweets and more. Its amazing because its no magic supplement, its free and sooo easy to get into.

I am glad i started IF again because it does work. BTW the fast 5 book is free on the website filled with great info. It compares how much pressure you have on your joints each day with extra weight. And also gives you a real insight on your body weight based on the size of your wrist. Its no bull like being 5 feet 10 and weighting in at 140 pounds crap like in the medical chart. I am 5 feet 10 and have a 7 inch wrist, so my ideal body weight is around 198 pounds, which make it a lot easier to attain then if i had to cut down to 160 pounds.

[fatman225]

Last night had a Sushi, 2 rolls, calories just under 500 each (they are good rolls), had some chili later, and a bunch of fresh raspberries from my yard, some fresh asperigus too. Total calories estimate was well under 1600. Felt very full when I ate however.

[yannick35]

A part from the bad blood test http://www.precisionnutrition.com/intermittent-fasting the whole study is here in PDF the rest of the diet is very solid.

If you read the study you will see that Dr. John M. Berardi experimented on himself for 6 months various IF protocol he lost a good amount of weight

But after 6 months he took some blood test that came back less then perfect they are in the study has well.

I have been anemic after doing IF i was not sure why that happened but reading the study that shed some light on the subject there is something about fasting and the bone marrow lowering its blood cell production.

Now with steroids and GH that might not be an issue since both of them incease RBC, WBC, production and more.

The problem with IF is that its for real and it works. Someone that is willing to stick with it for a week will see a lot of changes, someone like me who used to crave sugar and stop at the gas station for excuse to buy candy or the drug store for the same will not happen after a mere week on IF. At some point i stop eating and am just not hungry anymore, that either good or bad i need to force feed myself.

I love the renegade diet which is another approach to IF but instead of eating one meal etc you eat low carb when you break the fast and then later at night around 6pm or so you eat a full course meal.

Hey low carb has always worked wonders for me to lose weight i just cannot stand ketosis, so renegade diet i get best of both worlds during the day my insulin stays low and at night i can refeed.

http://www.leangains.com/ website is free and packed with amazing info.

I wonder if allowing a huge cheat day once per week might restart the body production of hormones, like thyroid, testosterone and more? i get testosterone from my prolotherapy treatments and take GH 1IU per day and 2IU in my prolo treatment. But at some point i will stop taking all of this.

[yannick35]

There is a reason why some people doing IF are so tired, and cannot train fasted, to be honest i don't have that issue. But the study points out low red blood cell which are responsible to oxygen the body.

[jsn23]

I just recently found out about IF. At the end of my last bulk i decided to to change up my next cut, so i found Intermittent Fasting, and boy do i love it! Been cutting, hitting bout 200g protein, 1800-2000 calories a day, from 10am-2pm, and have dropped 15 pounds of body fat, in 3 weeks, while still maintaing my muscle... love IF!

[yannick35]

On IF you can indulge a bit more, making it a lot easier on the mental. Also i can still go out on weekends and eat at a restauant to my heart contemp that keeps my couple alive LOL my girlfriend got that fast metabolisme she eats like crazy and does not gain weight......... i need to take her out at least once a week to a restaurant and there i cant say i am on a diet.

IF has a lot of positive going for it.

[fatman225]

On IF you can indulge a bit more, making it a lot easier on the mental. Also i can still go out on weekends and eat at a restauant to my heart contemp that keeps my couple alive LOL my girlfriend got that fast metabolisme she eats like crazy and does not gain weight......... i need to take her out at least once a week to a restaurant and there i cant say i am on a diet.

IF has a lot of positive going for it.

That's the main reason I stick with it.

For sure a big cheat meal once a week is fine on it, and like you said may help with things like RBC. So far I have not noticed any RBC related problems with it however, but then I had a slightly high count to begin with.

For guys on TRT who frequently get high RBC, and actually have to go donate blood in order to lower it, IF may be just the ticket to help them lower it a bit more. As for guys using steroids like EQ that can raise RBC to really high levels, then Intermittent Fasting may have an added benefit too.

I'm thinking that one issue may be the guys dieting on it who are not going close enough to their maintenence calories, for example a guy who eats 1200 kcals, but his maintenence is 3600 for his TDEE, well over time as he gets leaner something has got to give. Where if he were eating at least 2600 this might not be an issue? I can just see that staying too low on calories for too long regardless of how they are spread out not being good for RBC.

I'm not sure however, that's just an offhanded guess. There are some folks who have been doing IF for a long time, like Martin Berkin (leangains), and he does not seem to be dealing with an anemia.

I'll definately look into it however.

[fatman225]

Good news is my weight is still dropping.

Bad news is its not dropping at quite the rate I would like, and I did a resent re-calculation of my TDEE, based only on lean body mass, which I estimate at 170 pounds, much more conservative than using my total wieght 207.

I also conservatively estimate my cals as sedentary, and come up with a maintenence of only 1900. Now this is likely too low, but many days at work I am not all that active, and I think most cardio machine over estimate calories, and we tend to over estimate the amount we brun lifting weight.

My target amount of calories might as well be as low as possible at the moment, due to being on test at the moment, with the whole purpose to be maintaining muscle while cutting, I think I can get away with dropping my calories to under 1200, with a goal of 1000 to 1200 daily.

Steep drop but I am still around 16% bodyfat. Likely a drop like this would be too much for a guy who is at 8%, but then he has far less to burn through the day as I do.

I think 3200 TDEE was wishful thinking on my part, and 1600 daily, while still effective and under maintenence, is not bruning as much fat as I ideally could, especially while on cycle.

Being perfectly honest, In other words; what I have been doing is working, but I want results faster.

[GirlyGymRat]

Fatman...i am back to my small meals...i think better suited for me. glad to hear u doing well on IF!

[fatman225]

Fatman...i am back to my small meals...i think better suited for me. glad to hear u doing well on IF!

I think both methods works on the body, but the best way to shed fat is with what you can stick to mentally.

Burn more calories than you take in.

By all means, if spreading food out is easier for you to mentally stick to, then its better for you.

[fatman225]

Oh, I should also mention that in spite of the drastic calorie reduction I am in, greater than 500 deficit, my strength is up if anything.

At some point during fat loss the strength cannot go up, but I think that is more for people who are already rather lean.

People are already commenting about how I look better, so I'm glad I'm not the only one who notices.

[yannick35]

Oh, I should also mention that in spite of the drastic calorie reduction I am in, greater than 500 deficit, my strength is up if anything.

At some point during fat loss the strength cannot go up, but I think that is more for people who are already rather lean.

People are already commenting about how I look better, so I'm glad I'm not the only one who notices.

I have trained twice this week fasted for 18 hours each and did not notice any drop in weights or fatigue, yet another myth that has been exposed. I feel that correct IF is the best way for health, fat loss and sooo much more

[GirlyGymRat]

I think both methods works on the body, but the best way to shed fat is with what you can stick to mentally.

Burn more calories than you take in.

By all means, if spreading food out is easier for you to mentally stick to, then its better for you.

Bottom Line

Oh, I should also mention that in spite of the drastic calorie reduction I am in, greater than 500 deficit, my strength is up if anything.

At some point during fat loss the strength cannot go up, but I think that is more for people who are already rather lean.

People are already commenting about how I look better, so I'm glad I'm not the only one who notices.

I am rather lean for a gal only cuz I have more muscle then the average non BB gal. I lost bout 40 pounds and been keeping it off because I found this forum and had such awesome advice and support from mods and members

OP are gonna notice and that is gonna make u want more plus you must be feeling better too! I look photos and measured every week and look back now and wonder who is that person? You won't know yourself soon at this rate!!! keep up the awesome progress!!!!!

[fatman225]

Well, today had a cheat meal.

That is where I still stick to the fasting during the day, but when I do eat I eat a surplus of calories.

I'm not sold entirely on the physiological reasons for a cheat meal once in a while, but I do understand the mental ones.

I had not gone above my previous 1600 kcal limit (recently down to 1000-1200) since the wedding two weeks ago.

So, I guess that is my cycle, every 14 days, one re-feed.

This may have to become more frequent once I get much leaner, because the deficit is obviously felt more the less fat you have.

Got to say, this time was NOT easy, and I don't even want to "look" at food. I probably downed 4000 kcal in one meal (guestimate), or at least is FELT like it (did not consume calories in the form of liquid, only water).

Good portion of it was meat/protein, but then had some pastries afterwards too.

Now cannot stop sweating. That thermic effect of food.

Did do both cardio and weights earlier today too. Obviously I want to burn a bunch before a re-feed.

Tomorrow will do cardio and lift fasted, and I will only eat about 1 hour before I sleep, and I will eat the bare minimum to satisfy me, which will be about 600-800 calories.

Monday back to 1000-1200, cardio lift, like most days.

[yannick35]

fatman225 isnt that a bit low 1600, even 1200 cals per day? i am doing IF myself fast between 16-20 hours per day but during my eating period i try to eat at least 2000 calories lots of protein and EFA. I have also trained fasted with no issue. How do you feel going so low on calories?

[fatman225]

fatman225 isnt that a bit low 1600, even 1200 cals per day? i am doing IF myself fast between 16-20 hours per day but during my eating period i try to eat at least 2000 calories lots of protein and EFA. I have also trained fasted with no issue. How do you feel going so low on calories?

I have not lost any strength, in fact most of my lifts are up.

Now I know I will not be able to continue such a drastic reduction forever, at some point I will have to get closer to mainenence to maintain muscle, and the last of the fat comes off more slowly.

For now if I need another 1400 calories in the day, for any reason, my body still has enough fat to grab them from.

I would slow it up and add more calories back in if I started losing strength or feeling sick etc...

[fatman225]

It might be placebo effect, but since I started the Test-cyp and the Proviron ed, my sex drive is insane. This is much appreciated by my wife, she is pregnant right now (2nd trimester), and well lets say her drive is profoundly high too. Its like being a teenager again.

Hormones, I'm tellin ya!

I already have one son already, and for sure I can say that IF is teh best way to control nutrition, that I have found with a kid schedule.

The six meal a day "plan" is hard to PLAN for when you always need to keep a little plastic box of chicken breast and rice with you. When you got kids running around and you want to take them somewhere and have to worry about a source of clean food etc...

Its just very inconvenient to have to plan seperate meals for myself and my son. Well, taking myself out of the equation. Or when my wife is making a lunch or morning time breakfast, on a day I don't work, she does not have to worry about me, and I can do other things instead of having to go get myself something seperate.

[yannick35]

I did the six small meals before and its a pain, i stick with IF, i can get 4 meals in my eating hour and really get my calories that i need, plus eating meals like this its all food no powder or bars. Yeah testosterone dose make a huge impact, i get some injected during prolotherapy and it does boost you up.

[fatman225]

Hi All checking in. I'm 100% sure the testosterone has kicked in. All my lifts are way up, and my sex drive is full tilt. My weight has stopped lowering, at the moment, however between 205-210, and I'm assuming that means actually gaining muscle OR water retention, as I find it highly unlikely that testosterone and proviron would cause me to hold onto fat. That and my pants are getting more loose around my waist.

[fatman225]

Attachment 124769Attachment 124770Attachment 124771Well, Its time for PICTURE UPDATE!!! Regular time of month, well 3 days early, with your regular fatman on your regular fatman channel.

[gbrice75]

Nice, wide back. You're gonna look beast when you get shredded!

[fatman225]

^^^Thanks gb, I certainly hope so too. I've held what muscle I do have for a long time, now the goal is to SEE it.

Once I get under 10% bodyfat I never want to go over it again.


I used to think I needed to eat heavy amounts of calories to maintain my size. I think a lot of guys tend to do that as we associate eating large quantities of food with being masculine. The reality is that we can easily over estimate with that mindset. Even gaining 1 extra pound of fat a week can seriously add up, and quickly too. This leads the perma bulker mentality.

For a while I was concerned I might not really have as much muscle under the flab as I thought, and then seeing my pictures from behind I was relieved.

[fatman225]

I am upping the calories back up to a 1600 limit. One, it gives me a little bit more freedom durring my eating time, and it is still a very limited calories amount and has been working just as well with no slow down so far. It was not broke after all, no reason to fix it.

If I cannot cut on 1600 calories then I must be 4'11" and 120 pounds.