Fatman’s IF Journey.

[GirlyGymRat]

I am upping the calories back up to a 1600 limit. One, it gives me a little bit more freedom durring my eating time, and it is still a very limited calories amount and has been working just as well with no slow down so far. It was not broke after all, no reason to fix it.

If I cannot cut on 1600 calories then I must be 4'11" and 120 pounds.

or me. LOL!

r u juicing now too??? i thought I read that in OP post. doing great and u will be a new person come Christmas time!!!!

[fatman225]

or me. LOL!

r u juicing now too??? i thought I read that in OP post. doing great and u will be a new person come Christmas time!!!!

Yeah, I sure am juicing now. **** eating grin.

So, you got to be under 1600 to cut? OMG what is your TDEE?

[GirlyGymRat]

Yeah, I sure am juicing now. **** eating grin.

So, you got to be under 1600 to cut? OMG what is your TDEE?

GBrice helped me put together a plan at about 1450 on workout days. less on non workout days. When I follow it, I can lose. I am maintaining now between 135 - 138 and will get serious in January to prepare for tough mudder. This event will help be get to another place.

so maybe this explains why I was so stuffed that one weekend. LOL!

[fatman225]

GBrice helped me put together a plan at about 1450 on workout days. less on non workout days. When I follow it, I can lose. I am maintaining now between 135 - 138 and will get serious in January to prepare for tough mudder. This event will help be get to another place.

so maybe this explains why I was so stuffed that one weekend. LOL!

How tall are you?

From what I've read the role of height is far greater in terms of metabolism that previously thought.

At a height of only 5'8" (and that's right after rolling out of bed, I'm only 5'7" after noon), I can cut pretty easily at 1600 per day, but really that is only 150 more calories per day than you on a workout day (I train every day).

[GirlyGymRat]

5' 4. I was once at 1600 but had to adjust down to cut. I was working out 6 days a week but cut back to five. pretty sure I have less muscle then u. I am putting 2gether a revised workout to incorporate more resistance training. Its time for me to switch it up from a workout perspective to add more muscle. A year prior I weighed same as do now. Only difference is I am in a smaller pant size. I needbto do this for upper body too IMO . Do u think there is another option???

[fatman225]

5' 4. I was once at 1600 but had to adjust down to cut. I was working out 6 days a week but cut back to five. pretty sure I have less muscle then u. I am putting 2gether a revised workout to incorporate more resistance training. Its time for me to switch it up from a workout perspective to add more muscle. A year prior I weighed same as do now. Only difference is I am in a smaller pant size. I needbto do this for upper body too IMO . Do u think there is another option???

Keep in mind that you won't gain huge amounts of muscle as a natty female. Just does not work that way.

I think if you have figured out the correct amount of calories to cut with that puts you in a deficit, whatever that is (1400-1450?) then what to expect from training with weights would be to maintain the amount of muscle you have, and perhaps get a little bit stronger.

The strength improvement I would not expect to be coming from a major increase in LBM however. Don't expect serious increase in LBM as a natty female. That in turn means your BMR would not change much either. Honestly if you gained 5 pounds of muscle in a year, that would very impressive, but you would hardly "see" it at all. You would have more physical strength, healthier CNS and stronger bones however.

[GirlyGymRat]

^^^ I would be pleased with maintaining muscle I have and getting stronger. I would like to get more definition in my shoulders and back. I really don't think I can get the 6 pack abs, but would like to loose bf to at least see what I do have.

appreciate your insight....but this is YOUR THREAD. So how R U doing????

[fatman225]

Well, today was my cheat meal day. Where I go hog wild and eat tons of crap, likely going over maintenence.

This is something I rarely do, only about once every two weeks or so.

Feel like utter crap. Do not even want to see food for at least 24 hours, tomorrow will be back at 1200 to 1600 calories range.

I've read the occasional re-feed can be usefull, but I think I should have stretched this one out to more than just 2 meals in a 4 hour time frame.

No worries, I'll live.

I will be lethargic for the rest of the night however.

[GirlyGymRat]

I like a cheat meal, but can't go too crazy like I did on Frid. Paid for it all day Sat. Uggghhh! Not sure it was worth it.

[fatman225]

Well, I felt great when I got up today. Muscles fuller for sure.

Had a great WO around noon, did cardio.

Today I will likely go light on the calories, certainly not over 1600, likely lower than 1400.

[ppwc1985]

Hey Fatman I'm doing this thing now, how's it going with the test has it kicked in yet, and with such reduce cal are you still adding muscle weight?

[fatman225]

Hey Fatman I'm doing this thing now, how's it going with the test has it kicked in yet, and with such reduce cal are you still adding muscle weight?

I'm glad you asked.

Sure am gaining strength, and I have to be gaining muscle weight, as the weight loss has slown down, but I am still getting leaner.

I am sure it has kicked in.

I have a theory that while a caloric surplus IS needed to make gains, that this caloric surplus does NOT have to come emediately from our mouth. That our body is able to used stored fats for calories, not different than dietary fats recently consumed.

Obviously an individual who is already rather lean will have to consume more calories, but a man with higher bodyfat%, such as myself, has plenty to draw from already.

I still make sure to take in enough protein, and I still eat carbs, but yeah I take in around 1600 or less on most days, and my strength has been going up, and people I know are already commenting my arms/delts/pecs seem bigger already. While that COULD be partly due to being leaner, I suspect that it really is muscle gain.

[fatman225]

Well, now I've been on cycle a full month. It has completely kicked in. I'm still sticking to the 1600 kcal range, but my "weight" loss has slowed to a crawl. All of my key lifts are up in the gym and my waistline is continuing to shrink.

My only conclusion is that I am gaining muscle.

This, according to conventional diet wisdom, should be impossible. That is to gain muscle in a caloric deficit.

The confounding factor, and assumption in that logic however, is that this is usually regarding the "hard gainer", that is the guy who has very little body fat, and has trouble eating enough. That very well might be a limiting factor for such individuals.

In my situation the difference is there is still enough fat for my body to use for its calorie needs.

Is there any proof that the body cannot used stored calories to meet its daily caloric requirements for the purpose of building muscle? So long as there is adequate protein intake?

In my situation I feel I have anecdotal evidence the body is capable of this.

[GirlyGymRat]

what's going on????

[fatman225]

what's going on????

I'm glad you asked.

Still getting leaner, weight is hovering in the 195-198 zone, but clearly gaining muscle.

In 11 days I gotta get up another photo. My plan is to heave a couple each month around the 26th of each month.

[fatman225]

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Ah, what the heck why not post my pics 8 days earlier than planned.

Threads are like are worthless without pictures.

[GirlyGymRat]

^^^ SO TRUE. Remind me, what's happens at the end of aug? r u going to cut NEXT OR BULK????

[fatman225]

^^^ SO TRUE. Remind me, what's happens at the end of aug? r u going to cut NEXT OR BULK????

Not going to ever likely bulk.

I will continue to cut until I can see my abs, then maintain.

That is the goal, get lean, and STAY lean.

Any muscle gain then after will be done the slow way. If cals are increased it will not be by a big margin, absolute bare minimum to gain muscle.

[ppwc1985]

Fatman just simple ? I drink a lot water at work and I use those little packets they like 5 cal, you think this will mess the fast up or you think it's ok.

[fatman225]

Depends on how many of them you have. I personally don't take in anything sweet durring a fast, as that seems to make the fast harder to do, as in even a little food and I get hungry.

5 calories is likely not enough to take your body out of the fat buring state.

[fatman225]

Ok, some newer better pictures Attachment 125989Attachment 125990

[Tx89]

Nice progress man!!

[fatman225]

Nice progress man!!

Thanks man.

Now I'm just trying to figure out, at my current rate of progress how long until I can see my abbs?

I can already sorta see them when I flex, like the fat over them now has the divits in teh right places where I can "feel" them with my finger tips.

I'm actually MORE motivated to bust my ass now that I am "seeing" some results.

[Tx89]

Know that feeling man! I find this transformation phase very hard because progress slows down and it takes a while to reach a level of leanness where they really pop out. Stay persistent and patient and you will get there! Just look at what u achieved thus far

[fatman225]

Well, so far I have not noticed any slow down of results. If anything it "looks like" the results are actually happening faster the leaner I get.

This is just an example of my theory on fat loss slow down, and why it can happen, granted these are not exact figures in the example, but just an idea how the slow down actually happens.

I'm thinking maybe the reason some guys notice a progress slow down is that say they have a TDEE of 3000, they lose 20 pounds and the TDEE is now only 2500, because they are lighter than they used to be. They are not lugging that extra 20 with them everywhere they go.

Now if they used a 600 calorie deficit at the start of the diet, and then once the wieght came off, now eating the same thing they are only in a deficit of 100 calories, which is obviously a much slower rate of loss than 600. In order to lose more fat they would now need to reduce caloric intake even further.

At the moment I eat between 1200 and 1600 per day, and my previous TDEE was around 3200, now I think its more like 2900, but I'm in such a large deficit that I have not noticed any slow down.

I'm not sold on the theory of metabolic slow down yet, if that were to happen I would be tired a lot and cold too.

Maybe for some guys it just seems slower because of how bad we want those results since we actually SEE the destination closing in?

[bobjack]

wow your looking good keep it up.
and yeah i know what you mean one week feels so long when your so close.

[fatman225]

Getting to the point now where I am finding certain things can effect how lean I look.

Water being the biggest one. Last night had a meal that was very high in salts, and as a result I feel sorta bloated looking today. I'm sure I did not gain any bodyfat, was in a deficit all day but if you hold a little more water, its seems the fatty areas stand out more.

I could up the anastrozole dose, but no nipple issues, and I figure even if E2 is a tad bit high that still is not going to break the rules of physiology when in a caloric deficit, fat gets burned.

Likely feel bloated from high sodium intake last night. Will work out, do some cardio, sit in sauna, and keep pounding down water, should do the trick.

[GirlyGymRat]

Well, so far I have not noticed any slow down of results. If anything it "looks like" the results are actually happening faster the leaner I get.

This is just an example of my theory on fat loss slow down, and why it can happen, granted these are not exact figures in the example, but just an idea how the slow down actually happens.

I'm thinking maybe the reason some guys notice a progress slow down is that say they have a TDEE of 3000, they lose 20 pounds and the TDEE is now only 2500, because they are lighter than they used to be. They are not lugging that extra 20 with them everywhere they go.

Now if they used a 600 calorie deficit at the start of the diet, and then once the wieght came off, now eating the same thing they are only in a deficit of 100 calories, which is obviously a much slower rate of loss than 600. In order to lose more fat they would now need to reduce caloric intake even further.

At the moment I eat between 1200 and 1600 per day, and my previous TDEE was around 3200, now I think its more like 2900, but I'm in such a large deficit that I have not noticed any slow down.

I'm not sold on the theory of metabolic slow down yet, if that were to happen I would be tired a lot and cold too.

Maybe for some guys it just seems slower because of how bad we want those results since we actually SEE the destination closing in?

first off, you have made alot of progress in the past month alone and taking pics is so helpful!

I had to adjust my macros DOWNWARD to continue losing and my abdominal fat is the last to go. (the first place for me to gain is the last place to come off).

i don't know about this metabolic slow down, but i do get colder quicker...not as much insulation is my over simplified theory.

congrats congrats congrats...looking good!

[fatman225]

first off, you have made alot of progress in the past month alone and taking pics is so helpful!

I had to adjust my macros DOWNWARD to continue losing and my abdominal fat is the last to go. (the first place for me to gain is the last place to come off).

i don't know about this metabolic slow down, but i do get colder quicker...not as much insulation is my over simplified theory.

congrats congrats congrats...looking good!

That is generally how it is. So you got the belly band too eh? I thought most women tended to get that in the butt and hips area? No justice in genetics is there?

Oh well, keep in mind that regardless of where the body has its fat stored, once you lose that fat, its still gone. This is one of the reasons I like to have fasting incorportaed as it is ideal for hitting the areas that tend to resist fat loss. Simply because insulin is as low as possible in the fasted state and adrenaline and gorwth hormone are at their highest.

This keeps anything from stimulating the A2 receptors, and allows the B2 receptors to be activated and to lose that stubborn tummy tire.

[fatman225]

So got a bachelor party this weekend. Not planning or over eating too much, but going to be careful of alcohol intake. Not that I think a few drinks on a special occasion hurt the diet, I just HATE hangovers.

[GirlyGymRat]

That is generally how it is. So you got the belly band too eh? I thought most women tended to get that in the butt and hips area? No justice in genetics is there?

Oh well, keep in mind that regardless of where the body has its fat stored, once you lose that fat, its still gone. This is one of the reasons I like to have fasting incorportaed as it is ideal for hitting the areas that tend to resist fat loss. Simply because insulin is as low as possible in the fasted state and adrenaline and gorwth hormone are at their highest.

This keeps anything from stimulating the A2 receptors, and allows the B2 receptors to be activated and to lose that stubborn tummy tire.

well, we have to play the cards we are dealt...and i don't have any cellulite and i will never will. in a perfect world, i would rather have curvy hips and skiny waist just cuz the retail market doesn't provide me a lot of clothing options compared to typical woman...but is what it is...right?

r u suggesting a day of fasting...no food for 24 hours. i can do that on a non workout day?

So got a bachelor party this weekend. Not planning or over eating too much, but going to be careful of alcohol intake. Not that I think a few drinks on a special occasion hurt the diet, I just HATE hangovers.

truly a waste of time!

[fatman225]

[/B]

well, we have to play the cards we are dealt...and i don't have any cellulite and i will never will. in a perfect world, i would rather have curvy hips and skiny waist just cuz the retail market doesn't provide me a lot of clothing options compared to typical woman...but is what it is...right?

r u suggesting a day of fasting...no food for 24 hours. i can do that on a non workout day?

That was not exactly what I was suggesting, but now that you brought it up, sure you can.

That is the thing about it, that it can be flexible. The important knowledge is NOT a regimented schedule, even though I tend to do my eating at similar times each day, the important thing to remember is that it is ok to skip meals.

So you could even eat a dinner that you want to eat, like a cheat meal one evening, and then the next day skip your normal breakfast and lunch.

You could eat normal 4 days a week and fast for 3 of them. That is the EatStopEat method, but the whole point is to use time periods of non-eating to reduce total caloric intake.

It just so happens that the fasted state is also ideal for targeting stubborn fat areas with what it does for hormones.

[fatman225]

Speaking of hormones, since I am on a testosterone cycle at the moment, I want to mention that I have actually had to reduce the amount of Anastrozole through the cycle as I have gotten leaner.

At least in my current experience then there is a direct relationship with bodyfat and E2 conversion, and I know in my own body reducing fat improves this.

[fatman225]

Will be posting new pictures soon, likely in a week.

Had to re-do my TDEE estimate. Conservative estimate is that I burn 1700 as my BMR, and with 1.55 for moderate activity (again conservative, I might be high) it is 2700.

I actually do about 30 minutes of 4.0 speed walking cardio with a 25 pound dumbell in a backpack, each day, and lift weights for an hour daily. I drive for a living for folks with disabilities, but I do have to actively get out of the seat a lot to assist. Likely I should have picked higher than moderate activity, but again, most calculations over estimate, so used the 1.55 x BMR to be conservative for TDEE.

I did this using a height of 171cm (5'7") and a weight of 78kg (172 pounds) etimated what I should weigh when I am at my goal of easily seeing abs.

Ate about 2200 high end estimate tonight, so 500 deficit, was feeling hungry when I ate. Otherwise I could have taken in less, and many days its still around 1600.

Currently 183 at last weighing this morning on empty stomach, obviously.

[mockery]

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Ah, what the heck why not post my pics 8 days earlier than planned.

Threads are like are worthless without pictures.

how tall are you?

[fatman225]

how tall are you?

5'8" when I wake up, after noon 5'7".

When I calculate for BMR I use the 5'7" to be conservative.

[fatman225]

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That monthly time for pictures again, hope you all like my progress. Took it with less harsh lighting this time. Hard to find lighting I look both good in, and that cheap camera can pic up ;/

[GirlyGymRat]

looks like you continue to make progress! do you measure your bf %?

[fatman225]

sure do, but only with calipers, which is notoriously innacurate, but just so I get a ballpark figure that I am moving in right direction.

Typical calipers tend to estimate 4% lower than realistic level that water would measure.

About 10 days ago came up at 8.1% on calipers, so that might be 12% in water?

Anyway, so long as I am starting to look the way I want to look, then the numbers are not critical

[Tx89]

Pics are lookin really Good man, huge improvement for sure! Congrats!
Concerning bodyfat you're right, looks 12-13%ish, but looks is what matters as u said! :-)