Justification For TRT in Healthy Young Men Who Use AAS

**ENraged** · 06-05-2009, 07:05 PM

almost all of our points have been TRT is not a male contraceptive nor is cycling in general.
No idea who the hell stuck it in your head that getting snipped was such an awful experience I have had it done as have several people I know and not a one of them are having any of the issues you are talking about. I simply can not believe that out of your vast research you found you plan to shut down your bodies healthy production of test the optimal way to handle this.
I am sorry you are talking to a guy that has had everything you are planning against happen. 2 children with a test level of below 150.. a low test level prior to getting the vasectomy (which did not hurt and I was back in the gym on monday doing squats) and one child conceived whilst in the midst of a long cycle. I can not even tell you how many times over the years I have seen on the boards our brothers posting how they managed to knock up the ladies while mid cycle on crazy levels of test and others.
and just cause you keep tossing the MCH references at us here is what I found after about two seconds of searching.
Seriously it sounds an awful lot like you have better odds with pulling out and praying!

"Typical MHC formulations provide replacement testosterone to the man’s bloodstream to maintain male characteristics like muscle mass and facial hair. Small scale clinical trials of MHCs have had mixed results so far, with a few notable successes"
And
"It’s a mystery: Some men do not respond to MHCs
Researchers have a major problem to solve before they can bring male hormonal contraceptives to market: some men simply do not respond to hormonal contraceptive regimens. Non-response rates range from 5 to 20%, depending on the formulation and delivery method.

There are many theories about what might cause this non-response, but the mechanism remains unknown. So far, researchers have found that non-responders have the same daily and monthly gonadotropin and testosterone levels as responders. They have found that non-responders have higher levels of 5-alpha-reductase, an enzyme which converts testosterone to the potent androgen dihyrdotestosterone (DHT). However, men given a drug to suppress the action of this enzyme do not respond any better than before. New evidence shows that non-responders have a higher level of insulin -like factor-3 (INSL3) than responders, but whether this is a causal relationship remains unclear (Amory 2007).

One interesting clue in the non-response mystery is the striking difference in the response levels of men of different ethnicities. Asian men in the WHO and other studies ”consistently show… a higher prevalence of azoospermia than Caucasian men“ (Brady 2002). Dr. John Amory, a leading MHC researcher at the University of Washington, has suggested that this difference could be of genetic origin (2001). Slight differences in the genes encoding various aspects of a man’s hormonal system ”could allow for continued intratesticular testosterone production or activity of testosterone or gonadotropins, thereby enabling spermatogenesis to persist“.

The non-response mystery will probably be resolved with a better overall understanding of how the male reproductive system works. Dr. Amory (2002) calls for further ”understanding of the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis“ which ”will be possible only with continued clinical and basic investigation."

References:
Amory, JK, and WJ Bremner (2000) "Newer agents for hormonal contraception in the male." Trends in Endocrinology and Metabolism 11(2): 61-66.
Amory, JK, BD Anawalt, WJ Bremner and AM Matsumoto (2001) "Daily testosterone and gonadotropin levels are similar in azoospermic and nonazoospermic normal men administered weekly testosterone: Implications for male contraceptive development." Journal of Andrology 22(6): 1053-1060.
Amory, JK, and WJ Bremner (2002) "Endocrine regulation of testicular function in men: Implication for contraceptive development." Molecular and Cellular Endocrinology 186: 205-209.
Amory, JK, ST Page, BD Anawalt, AD Coviello, AM Matsumoto and WJ Bremner (2007) "Elevated end-of-treatment serum INSL3 is associated with failure to completely suppress spermatogenesis in men receiving male hormonal contraception." Journal of Andrology Epub ahead of print Feb 21.
Anawalt, BD, and JK Amory "Advances in male hormonal contraception." Annals of Medicine 33: 587-595.
Brady, BM, and RA Anderson (2002) "Advances in male contraception." Expert Opinion on Investigational Drugs 11(3): 333-344.
Liu, PY, RS Swerdloff, PD Christenson, DJ Handelsman, C Wang and other members of the Hormonal Male Contraception Summit group (2006) "Rate, extent, and modifiers of spermatogenic recovery after hormonal male contraception: an integrated analysis." The Lancet 367(9520): 1412-20.
Mahler, K (1996) "Testosterone injections suppress sperm production, providing effective level of contraceptive protection" Family Planning Perspectives 28(4): 84-85.
McLachlan, RI (2000) "Male hormonal contraception: a safe, acceptable and reversible choice." Medical Journal of Australia 172: 254-255.
McLachlan, RI, DM Robertson, E Pruysers, A Ugoni, AM Matsumoto, BD Anawalt, WJ Bremner and C Merrigiola (2004) "Relationship between serum gonadotropins and spermatogenic suppression in men undergoing steroidal contraceptive treatment." Jornal of Endocrinology and Metabolism 89(1): 142-9.
Nieschlag, E (2002) “Sixth Summit Meeting Consensus: Recommendations for regulatory approval for hormonal male contraception.” International Journal of Andrology 25: 375.
Nieschlag, E, GF Weingauer and HM Behre (1995) "Male contraception based on testosterone in combination with other agents." in Proceedings of the 2nd International Androgen Workshop. Eds. S. Bhasin et al. New York : Wiley-Liss.
Swerdloff, R, B Steiner, C Callegari and S Bhasin (1995) "GnRH analogues and male contraception." in Proceedings of the 2nd International Androgen Workshop. Eds. S. Bhasin et al. New York : Wiley-Liss.
Waites, GMH (2003) "Development of methods of male contraception: impact of the World Health Organization Task Force." Fertility and Sterility 80(1): 1-15.
World Health Organization Task Force on Methods for the Regulation of Male Fertility (1996) "Contraceptive efficacy of testosterone-induced azoospermia and oligozoospermia in normal men." Fertility and Sterility 65(4): 821-829.

**ENraged** · 06-05-2009, 07:06 PM

Seriously bro just finish in her a$$ lololololol

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 06-06-2009, 07:12 AM

Originally Posted by ENraged

almost all of our points have been TRT is not a male contraceptive nor is cycling in general.
No idea who the hell stuck it in your head that getting snipped was such an awful experience I have had it done as have several people I know and not a one of them are having any of the issues you are talking about. I simply can not believe that out of your vast research you found you plan to shut down your bodies healthy production of test the optimal way to handle this.
I am sorry you are talking to a guy that has had everything you are planning against happen. 2 children with a test level of below 150.. a low test level prior to getting the vasectomy (which did not hurt and I was back in the gym on monday doing squats) and one child conceived whilst in the midst of a long cycle. I can not even tell you how many times over the years I have seen on the boards our brothers posting how they managed to knock up the ladies while mid cycle on crazy levels of test and others.
and just cause you keep tossing the MCH references at us here is what I found after about two seconds of searching.
Seriously it sounds an awful lot like you have better odds with pulling out and praying!

"Typical MHC formulations provide replacement testosterone to the man’s bloodstream to maintain male characteristics like muscle mass and facial hair. Small scale clinical trials of MHCs have had mixed results so far, with a few notable successes"
And
"It’s a mystery: Some men do not respond to MHCs
Researchers have a major problem to solve before they can bring male hormonal contraceptives to market: some men simply do not respond to hormonal contraceptive regimens. Non-response rates range from 5 to 20%, depending on the formulation and delivery method.

There are many theories about what might cause this non-response, but the mechanism remains unknown. So far, researchers have found that non-responders have the same daily and monthly gonadotropin and testosterone levels as responders. They have found that non-responders have higher levels of 5-alpha-reductase, an enzyme which converts testosterone to the potent androgen dihyrdotestosterone (DHT). However, men given a drug to suppress the action of this enzyme do not respond any better than before. New evidence shows that non-responders have a higher level of insulin -like factor-3 (INSL3) than responders, but whether this is a causal relationship remains unclear (Amory 2007).

One interesting clue in the non-response mystery is the striking difference in the response levels of men of different ethnicities. Asian men in the WHO and other studies ”consistently show… a higher prevalence of azoospermia than Caucasian men“ (Brady 2002). Dr. John Amory, a leading MHC researcher at the University of Washington, has suggested that this difference could be of genetic origin (2001). Slight differences in the genes encoding various aspects of a man’s hormonal system ”could allow for continued intratesticular testosterone production or activity of testosterone or gonadotropins, thereby enabling spermatogenesis to persist“.

The non-response mystery will probably be resolved with a better overall understanding of how the male reproductive system works. Dr. Amory (2002) calls for further ”understanding of the hypothalamic-pituitary-testicular axis“ which ”will be possible only with continued clinical and basic investigation."

References:
Amory, JK, and WJ Bremner (2000) "Newer agents for hormonal contraception in the male." Trends in Endocrinology and Metabolism 11(2): 61-66.
Amory, JK, BD Anawalt, WJ Bremner and AM Matsumoto (2001) "Daily testosterone and gonadotropin levels are similar in azoospermic and nonazoospermic normal men administered weekly testosterone: Implications for male contraceptive development." Journal of Andrology 22(6): 1053-1060.
Amory, JK, and WJ Bremner (2002) "Endocrine regulation of testicular function in men: Implication for contraceptive development." Molecular and Cellular Endocrinology 186: 205-209.
Amory, JK, ST Page, BD Anawalt, AD Coviello, AM Matsumoto and WJ Bremner (2007) "Elevated end-of-treatment serum INSL3 is associated with failure to completely suppress spermatogenesis in men receiving male hormonal contraception." Journal of Andrology Epub ahead of print Feb 21.
Anawalt, BD, and JK Amory "Advances in male hormonal contraception." Annals of Medicine 33: 587-595.
Brady, BM, and RA Anderson (2002) "Advances in male contraception." Expert Opinion on Investigational Drugs 11(3): 333-344.
Liu, PY, RS Swerdloff, PD Christenson, DJ Handelsman, C Wang and other members of the Hormonal Male Contraception Summit group (2006) "Rate, extent, and modifiers of spermatogenic recovery after hormonal male contraception: an integrated analysis." The Lancet 367(9520): 1412-20.
Mahler, K (1996) "Testosterone injections suppress sperm production, providing effective level of contraceptive protection" Family Planning Perspectives 28(4): 84-85.
McLachlan, RI (2000) "Male hormonal contraception: a safe, acceptable and reversible choice." Medical Journal of Australia 172: 254-255.
McLachlan, RI, DM Robertson, E Pruysers, A Ugoni, AM Matsumoto, BD Anawalt, WJ Bremner and C Merrigiola (2004) "Relationship between serum gonadotropins and spermatogenic suppression in men undergoing steroidal contraceptive treatment." Jornal of Endocrinology and Metabolism 89(1): 142-9.
Nieschlag, E (2002) “Sixth Summit Meeting Consensus: Recommendations for regulatory approval for hormonal male contraception.” International Journal of Andrology 25: 375.
Nieschlag, E, GF Weingauer and HM Behre (1995) "Male contraception based on testosterone in combination with other agents." in Proceedings of the 2nd International Androgen Workshop. Eds. S. Bhasin et al. New York : Wiley-Liss.
Swerdloff, R, B Steiner, C Callegari and S Bhasin (1995) "GnRH analogues and male contraception." in Proceedings of the 2nd International Androgen Workshop. Eds. S. Bhasin et al. New York : Wiley-Liss.
Waites, GMH (2003) "Development of methods of male contraception: impact of the World Health Organization Task Force." Fertility and Sterility 80(1): 1-15.
World Health Organization Task Force on Methods for the Regulation of Male Fertility (1996) "Contraceptive efficacy of testosterone-induced azoospermia and oligozoospermia in normal men." Fertility and Sterility 65(4): 821-829.

I know MHC is not 100 percent. I never said it wasn't.
As far as the rest of what you said we have to get very specific.

First off....having a endogenous test level of 150 is not necessarily indicative of how well you can get your girl pregnant. Sperm count and serum test levels don't fall and rise exactly with each other.
As far as guys getting gals pregnant on cycle, yes that happens. But how longs a cycle? 12 weeks at the longer end right? Well, i fully expect that MHC would need close to a year or so to become fully effective. Just cuz some guys get a girl pregnant on week 6 of a cycle, does not mean they are comparable in sperm count to someone who has been on exogenous testosterone for over a year.
And autoimmune problems like MS and such arent the type of thing that show up right away. It might be 20 years down the road.

**Pac Man** · 06-06-2009, 11:00 AM

Don't do it, I was 25 when I started TRT. It helped allot but I was already low. I've stopped now at 26 due to my job. I have low test and miss the feeling but I don't miss getting pricked by a needle once a week.
Leave TRT for those who need it, cycle as you want and go get a vasectomy

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 06-06-2009, 01:01 PM

Originally Posted by Ironside

Don't do it, I was 25 when I started TRT. It helped allot but I was already low. I've stopped now at 26 due to my job. I have low test and miss the feeling but I don't miss getting pricked by a needle once a week.
Leave TRT for those who need it, cycle as you want and go get a vasectomy

Vasectomy is not an option in my mind. I dont really want an autoimmune problem later, ya know?

As far as the needle thing, i know some guys who dont even do their own shots cuz they hate hate hate doin shots. This is not an issue for me. Personally, i, like many other guys here, like doin shots. Granted, i could see it getting old and losing that special feeling after awhile,but needles dont make me nervous.
How do you feel about shots Ironside, do they really bother you?

***T-MOS*** · 06-06-2009, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by AnabolicBoy1981

Vasectomy is not an option in my mind. I dont really want an autoimmune problem later, ya know?

As far as the needle thing, i know some guys who dont even do their own shots cuz they hate hate hate doin shots. This is not an issue for me. Personally, i, like many other guys here, like doin shots. Granted, i could see it getting old and losing that special feeling after awhile,but needles dont make me nervous.
How do you feel about shots Ironside, do they really bother you?

The Dark Ages are OVER, there is NO reason to fear vasectomy now a days !
I think you are over thinking it. I had mine done 5 years ago and NEVER one bit of problem........... you will NOT have autoimmune issues......

But, do whatever you want already , this thread has outlived its usefulness !

**ENraged** · 06-06-2009, 02:55 PM

Originally Posted by AnabolicBoy1981

I know MHC is not 100 percent. I never said it wasn't.
As far as the rest of what you said we have to get very specific.

First off....having a endogenous test level of 150 is not necessarily indicative of how well you can get your girl pregnant. Sperm count and serum test levels don't fall and rise exactly with each other.
As far as guys getting gals pregnant on cycle, yes that happens. But how longs a cycle? 12 weeks at the longer end right? Well, i fully expect that MHC would need close to a year or so to become fully effective. Just cuz some guys get a girl pregnant on week 6 of a cycle, does not mean they are comparable in sperm count to someone who has been on exogenous testosterone for over a year.
And autoimmune problems like MS and such arent the type of thing that show up right away. It might be 20 years down the road.

OK post your references because everything I am reading in relationship to your claims are from like 10 years ago or more??!?
I mean think about it you fear what maybe could happen from a vasectomy
yet not what long term hormone doping?
And not 100 percent man try not even 5 percent success rate according to my recent references listed above.

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 06-06-2009, 03:14 PM

this guy has a whole book about it. rgardless of the technique, they procedure stops sperm from comming up...so wheres it go? "its re absorbed" they say. yeah ok, u make 50,000 sperma minute and thats all gonna get absorbed? the back up breaks the blood sperm barrier and autoimmune antibodies become present in 70-80 percent or men who get one. Why would it matter if they use a scalpel or clip or a laser, whether the use anesthtic or not, whether it takes 20 mnutes or 5 mins, whethor it hurts or not? they are keeping the sperm from coming up, and they back up, period.

http://www.dontfixit.org/

**ENraged** · 06-06-2009, 05:08 PM

One guy? you based this large a decision on one guy?!?! I give you like 10+ references and you come back with one guy?
O.K. now I am insulted I thought you really did some serious research and I have a decent debate brewing but now I see you did a google search came back with a guy that has no love for boys being messed with.
"When he’s not undergoing some kind of medical procedure because of his botched vasectomy" Unsatisfied customer wouldn't you say Tthat statement Should have been the first clue he was traumatized lol

"Chronic testicular pain can occur but is extremely rare, .01% or 1 in 10,000 cases. It is felt that this is related to high pressure caused by blocking of the vas deferens. Rarely is vasovasostomy indicated to relieve chronic pain."
Those are pretty damn decent odds if you ask me

as to the sperm reabsorption issue you are seeing After the sperm are produced with the seminiferous tubules, they enter the epididymis, a long, coiled tube that rests on the back side of each testis. The sperm stay in the epididymis until they are mature, a process that takes about 20 days. During sexual arousal, contractions of the epididymis force the sperm into the vas deferens. If ejaculation does not occur, sperm are simply reabsorbed into the body.
If your dontfixit guys idea is correct then wouldn't the rate among devote christians for these type of aliments be higher then the national average? They are about as straight edge as it comes not masturbating and only having sex for procreation? thus this type of build up would be common practice causing an autoimmune antibodies crisis?

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 06-06-2009, 11:46 PM

Originally Posted by ENraged

One guy? you based this large a decision on one guy?!?! I give you like 10+ references and you come back with one guy?
O.K. now I am insulted I thought you really did some serious research and I have a decent debate brewing but now I see you did a google search came back with a guy that has no love for boys being messed with.
"When he’s not undergoing some kind of medical procedure because of his botched vasectomy" Unsatisfied customer wouldn't you say Tthat statement Should have been the first clue he was traumatized lol

"Chronic testicular pain can occur but is extremely rare, .01% or 1 in 10,000 cases. It is felt that this is related to high pressure caused by blocking of the vas deferens. Rarely is vasovasostomy indicated to relieve chronic pain."
Those are pretty damn decent odds if you ask me

as to the sperm reabsorption issue you are seeing After the sperm are produced with the seminiferous tubules, they enter the epididymis, a long, coiled tube that rests on the back side of each testis. The sperm stay in the epididymis until they are mature, a process that takes about 20 days. During sexual arousal, contractions of the epididymis force the sperm into the vas deferens. If ejaculation does not occur, sperm are simply reabsorbed into the body.
If your dontfixit guys idea is correct then wouldn't the rate among devote christians for these type of aliments be higher then the national average? They are about as straight edge as it comes not masturbating and only having sex for procreation? thus this type of build up would be common practice causing an autoimmune antibodies crisis?

Its not ONE guy. The ONE guy sited references if you look.

And devout christians still jerk off. If they say they don't they are lying. I don't care how pious they are. I used to be one and the urge to jerk off is something that no religion can stop u from doin it. They might not get laid but they jerk off. Heck jesus probably jerked off.

**rogue01** · 06-07-2009, 12:41 AM

Anabolicboy...why don't you just do whatever you want and stop fighting with people? You are the one that will have to deal with your choices...good, bad, whatever.

**ENraged** · 06-07-2009, 07:48 AM

Originally Posted by AnabolicBoy1981

Its not ONE guy. The ONE guy sited references if you look.

And devout christians still jerk off. If they say they don't they are lying. I don't care how pious they are. I used to be one and the urge to jerk off is something that no religion can stop u from doin it. They might not get laid but they jerk off. Heck jesus probably jerked off.

I just wrote up another big old reply on better the belly of a whore then the ground and how your research is from like almost a decade ago at best. But man screw it you are going to do whatever the hell you want and I cant even understand why you posted the OP in the first place. you will do as you please hence your body. Best of luck

**ENraged** · 06-07-2009, 07:50 AM

Originally Posted by rogue01

Anabolicboy...why don't you just do whatever you want and stop fighting with people? You are the one that will have to deal with your choices...good, bad, whatever.

I am just amazed he has been a memeber here for like 5 years which means probably other boards as well and he thinks this makes sense? OKAY. anyways off to better topics

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 06-08-2009, 10:37 PM

Originally Posted by ENraged

I am just amazed he has been a memeber here for like 5 years which means probably other boards as well and he thinks this makes sense? OKAY. anyways off to better topics

Its the whole sperm back up and autoimmune antibodies that get me. Whats hard to understand? Regardless of how you "snip it" how do you avoind this? I will talk to some surgions about this and report back. Any guy in his late forties will tell you TRT is a blessing. Something thats a blessing isnt gonna be a curse just because im a couple decades earlier. Pain in the butt? Maybe. Annoying? Sure. A curse? The worst mistake of my life? Im not seeing it.
Extreme? yes. When Anthony Roberts first mentioned he was on TRT at 28, i was like "Wtf, that's so extreme". Granted he's no role model. But he wasn't doin it for contraceptive reasons. But It got me thinking, would it be the worst thing if there was purpose behind it?
I used to hate the idea of TRT. Being dependent on a shot...an outside source. That idea for whatever reason doesnt bother me as it did.
Keep in mind, this is just an idea, but i just thought i'd get some different responses than "oh thats crazy".
Now the doctors always say the sperm is reabsorbed, but at the rate they are made 50,000 a minute, i dont buy it. But what do they mean by absorb? Into certain tissues, or into the bloodstream? Maybe i dint want them to reabsorb. But whatever you call it, if we can keep them from going into the bloodstream that would be good. Maybe a combined program of vasectomey AND TRT would be the answer. Think about it: Cutting off the hose where the sperm come up from a NORMALLY functioning testicle would most likely cause back-up and a concurrent autoimmune response. But if you have a testicle functioning at 1/8th its sperm making ability, a la TRT, then that "load" might be something the body could reabsorb, or disccard without an autoimmune response.

Just an idea..

I take contraception very seriously

**normaljoe** · 06-09-2009, 12:49 AM

The World Health Organization (WHO) recently funded and designed a study evaluating the effect of a 30-month cycle of injectable testosterone undecanoate as a male contraceptive in over 1,000 Chinese men. Results from the June 2009 issue of Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism were published online ahead of print. Monthly injections of 500mg of testosterone undecanoate were shown to be a “safe, effective, reversible and reliable contraception in a high proportion of [participants]“. Interestingly, the same side effects have been considered dangerous and deadly when they involve the non-medical use of steroids for performance enhancement (”Multicenter Contraceptive Efficacy Trial of Injectable Testosterone Undecanoate in Chinese Men,” March 17).

[The] present study results show that monthly 500 mg TU injections can provide effective, reversible, acceptable and readily delivered contraception for most healthy Chinese men without serious short-term adverse effects. While further regimen optimization to achieve uniform azoospermia and long-term safety studies are still required, these promising findings provide encouragement that male hormonal contraceptive regimens may offer a novel and workable alternative to existing family planning options for couples who can not or prefer not to use only female-oriented contraception throughout their reproductive years.

The study participants experienced the usual side effects most commonly associated with anabolic steroid use . Anti-steroid crusaders typically use these adverse reactions as the basis for the overstated and exaggerated steroid scare tactic campaigns. But scientists dispassionately researching the therapeutic applications of steroids consider the short-term use of steroids relatively safe.

Some of the reported steroid-related side effects in the study included “tenderness or discomfort at the injection sites “, “acne“, “severe coughing lasting minutes after injection“, “changes in mood or behavior” , “facial swelling or skin rash“, and mostly increases in libido.

Testosterone levels increased significantly above normal. The HPT axis was also disrupted.

As expected, mean serum T increased by 34% and serum LH and FSH were suppressed by 97% and 94% respectively at the end of the treatment.

Participants gained body weight and their testicles atrophied.

Body weight increases (0.4–1.6 kg) and total testis volume decreases (1.3–5.6 ml as 4–16% of testis volume) were significant during the exposure period.

There hemoglobin/hematocrit increased. And blood lipids were adversely affected.

The mean hemoglobin increased by 7%, mean total cholesterol decrease by 21%, HDL cholesterol by 23% and LDL cholesterol by 29% at the end of the efficacy phase.

Most of the adverse effects were completely reversible within a 12-month recovery period after the discontinuation of the 30-month cycle of testosterone. NO post cycle therapy utilized.

Body weight returned to pre-entry baseline value after recovery but testis volume recovery was incomplete for some men at the end of the recovery period. The mean total testis volume at the end of the recovery phase was decreased approximately 4%, compared to the baseline values; 28% of the participants demonstrated smaller total testis volume at the end of the recovery period, versus pre-entry baseline value.

Treatment protocols designed to normalize the HPTA axis after anabolic steroid cessation, such as those designed by Dr. Michael Scally, clearly would have enhanced and expedited recovery. The use of post-cycle therapy (PCT) by athletes and bodybuilders would have minimized the period of anabolic steroid-induced hypogonadism (ASIH).

The study concludes that side effects from the medical use of steroids are relatively minor; however apparently when the same side effects result from the non-medical use of steroids, they are potentially life-threatening.

more fuel for the fire

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 06-09-2009, 06:06 PM

Originally Posted by normaljoe

more fuel for the fire

interesting, wheres that from?

**Pac Man** · 06-09-2009, 06:14 PM

Originally Posted by AnabolicBoy1981

Vasectomy is not an option in my mind. I dont really want an autoimmune problem later, ya know?

As far as the needle thing, i know some guys who dont even do their own shots cuz they hate hate hate doin shots. This is not an issue for me. Personally, i, like many other guys here, like doin shots. Granted, i could see it getting old and losing that special feeling after awhile,but needles dont make me nervous.
How do you feel about shots Ironside, do they really bother you?

Nope, I don't mind them but it becomes more of a hassle to inject every week when your out doing other things like camping or whatever.
You could look into nebido if your that full throttle. That would be the way I would like to go.

**ENraged** · 06-09-2009, 07:06 PM

Originally Posted by AnabolicBoy1981

Its the whole sperm back up and autoimmune antibodies that get me. Whats hard to understand? Regardless of how you "snip it" how do you avoind this? I will talk to some surgions about this and report back. Any guy in his late forties will tell you TRT is a blessing. Something thats a blessing isnt gonna be a curse just because im a couple decades earlier. Pain in the butt? Maybe. Annoying? Sure. A curse? The worst mistake of my life? Im not seeing it.
Extreme? yes. When Anthony Roberts first mentioned he was on TRT at 28, i was like "Wtf, that's so extreme". Granted he's no role model. But he wasn't doin it for contraceptive reasons. But It got me thinking, would it be the worst thing if there was purpose behind it?
I used to hate the idea of TRT. Being dependent on a shot...an outside source. That idea for whatever reason doesnt bother me as it did.
Keep in mind, this is just an idea, but i just thought i'd get some different responses than "oh thats crazy".
Now the doctors always say the sperm is reabsorbed, but at the rate they are made 50,000 a minute, i dont buy it. But what do they mean by absorb? Into certain tissues, or into the bloodstream? Maybe i dint want them to reabsorb. But whatever you call it, if we can keep them from going into the bloodstream that would be good. Maybe a combined program of vasectomey AND TRT would be the answer. Think about it: Cutting off the hose where the sperm come up from a NORMALLY functioning testicle would most likely cause back-up and a concurrent autoimmune response. But if you have a testicle functioning at 1/8th its sperm making ability, a la TRT, then that "load" might be something the body could reabsorb, or disccard without an autoimmune response.

Just an idea..

I take contraception very seriously

Best of luck on your mission bro I am not gonna battle with someone that had their mind made up prior to even submitting the thread.
your body is built to handle the reabsorption think about your statement.
"but at the rate they are made 50,000 a minute" Are you running to the bath room once and hour to relieve this build up now? then your body is rite now absorbing sperm like a fat kid on a cupcake.
Jesus out of like what 30 or 40 replies you have like 3 people saying "shit yea do it up" thats gotta tell you something.

**AnabolicBoy1981** · 06-09-2009, 11:02 PM

Originally Posted by ENraged

Best of luck on your mission bro I am not gonna battle with someone that had their mind made up prior to even submitting the thread.
your body is built to handle the reabsorption think about your statement.
"but at the rate they are made 50,000 a minute" Are you running to the bath room once and hour to relieve this build up now? then your body is rite now absorbing sperm like a fat kid on a cupcake.
Jesus out of like what 30 or 40 replies you have like 3 people saying "shit yea do it up" thats gotta tell you something.

my mind wasn't made up. Im not even doin it...yet. I still have much information to look up and doctors to talk to. Thanks everyone

**normaljoe** · 06-14-2009, 01:32 AM

Originally Posted by AnabolicBoy1981

interesting, wheres that from?

The source is referenced in my quote

June 2009 issue of Journal of Clinical Endocrinology & Metabolism were published online ahead of print

The opinion blurb was from a blog.

**Twist** · 06-14-2009, 11:30 PM

I am neither for nor against your idea. I would love trt if it didn't shut me down. Take this into account you said "I used to hate the idea of TRT. Being dependent on a shot...an outside source. That idea for whatever reason doesnt bother me as it did." your outlook on things changes bro. be careful what you wish for. I think that test would be a good thing to run all year round but not for the reason of becoming sterile. other reasons I see. but since you have to use a condom anyway...

**Priapism** · 07-03-2009, 10:56 PM

Or you could just do what I do

1) Make sure they're on the pill
2) Or wear a condom
3) Or pull out

-P-

**FallenWyvern** · 07-05-2009, 08:39 PM

I didn't read all the posts but OP was great.

To others, talking about cycles and people getting pregnant, that is very different from long term hrt.

http://www.webmd.com/sex/birth-contr...-contraceptive