Beginner, needing advice

**Jupiter2** · 08-06-2010, 10:23 AM

End of week 9 report. Week 10 began on Thursday (8/5)

The weekly protocol remains as follows:

200mg Test Cyp (Thursday's)
300iu HCG 2x per week (Saturday and Tuesday, 600iu total)

Not much to report. Was only able to inject approx. .4mg of Test last week. Though I didn't expect to feel much of a difference due to an expected slow decline in Test levels, I was pretty much on an emotional roller coaster. Hot flashes returned on Tuesday, and reoccurred on Wednesday night and again last night. That's something that hasn't happened for weeks. Just further confirmation (IMO) of my estrogen levels being unacceptably high. I've decided to begin adding .5mg's of Adex once per week (on Monday's). If that fails to resolve the issue I will increase the dose to .5mg's twice per week (Sunday and Wednesday).

Gyno symptoms remain stable. Puffy nipples are still evident but very little tenderness. Irritability and moodiness still apparent, as is mid morning and mid afternoon sleepiness.

As you may recall the rep from my clinic advised increasing my Test dose to 150mg's twice per week. I've decided to hold off on that for a bit in the hopes that the Adex will resolve the issue of my not experiencing the sense of wellness that I feel I should be experiencing by now and the lack of libido.

For those who may be wondering, I have not yet been in contact with that doctor I discovered last week. Been pretty busy as of late. Will try to get to it first thing next week.

Okay folks that's it for this week. Looking forward to any comments you may have. As always, stay well!

**Jupiter2** · 08-12-2010, 04:27 PM

End of week 10 report. Week 11 began on Thursday (8/12)

The weekly protocol remains as follows:

200mg Test Cyp (Thursday's)
300iu HCG 2x per week (Saturday and Tuesday, 600iu total)

Got my full dose in last Thursday and expected to be feeling a bit better afterward. By Monday estrogenic symptoms were driving me crazy (moodiness, sleepiness, no libido and recurring hot flashes in the evenings.) so I took my first capsule of Anastrozole (.5mg). Within a couple of days remaining nipple tenderness has disappeared, and what I thought was increasing breast tissue seems to be slowly melting away. Have noted an increase in urination and in appetite. Not sure if those are sides of the Anastrozole or an indicator of dropping estrogen levels. No change yet to moodiness, sleepiness or libido. After Test injection today I took a second dose of Anastrozole. Hopefully I'll begin to see a change in my libido by the weekend.

I have been working out every other day at home instead of the gym as I am quite nervous about inflaming the tendinitis in my left arm. Even though I am keeping the weights light I was expecting to see a wee bit more gain as a result of the Test. I'm hoping that will begin to change over the next week as a result of the lowering estrogen in my system.

Okay folks that's it for this week. Looking forward to any comments you may have. As always, stay well!

**Jupiter2** · 08-18-2010, 10:58 PM

End of week 11 report. Week 12 begins today (8/19)

The weekly protocol is as follows:

200mg Test Cyp (Thursday's)
300iu HCG 2x per week (Saturday and Tuesday, 600iu total)
.5mg Anastrozole (Monday, Wednesday, Friday)

Original plan was to do the Anastrozole twice per week (Mondays and Thursday) but I was noticing the return of some nipple sensitivity yesterday. So I've decided to bump it up to 3 times per week until the symptoms subside. Libido is still in the dumps, but the mid morning and mid afternoon fatigue seems to be easing a bit. Moodiness and the occasional hot flashes seem to be in decline as well.

As I noted last week, my appetite has increased since I began using the anastrozole, don't know if this is a recognized side effect of the medication or an indicator of decreasing estrogen, but it is welcome nonetheless.

Have been pushing myself a little bit harder as far as the workouts go. I'm still working out at home and keeping the weights light as my left arm remains tender, but I am doing an extra set to force a bit more muscle fatigue. I am beginning to see some of the fruits of my labor. Nothing crazy of course but enough to let me know that the testosterone in my system is having some physiological effect on me.

Okay folks that's it for this week. Comments are, as always, welcome. Stay well!

**Epic Ed** · 08-18-2010, 11:55 PM

The 1/2 life of adex is about 56 hours. So, every two or three days is a good protocol. I found that smaller doses more frequently keeps me more stable than a large dose one or twice a week.

**Jupiter2** · 08-19-2010, 09:03 AM

Ya. I actually located a tidbit about it's half life yesterday. That's what convinced me to up the dosage to 3 times per week.

**BillyBob210** · 08-19-2010, 06:10 PM

The anastrozole had the same water loss effect on me the first couple of doses....just drink more water. I had a little weight (water) gain for a few days but it went away and I too am seeing the inceased breast tissue melt away. Hang in there Bro. I have backed off to .25 mg 2wk and it seems to be stablizing.

**Jupiter2** · 08-19-2010, 06:24 PM

Thanks for the replies guys

**Jupiter2** · 09-01-2010, 10:33 AM

End of week 13 report. Week 14 begins tomorrow (9/1)

My apologies for skipping my post last week. Went away for a few days.

My intended protocol for last week was the following:

200mg Test Cyp (Thursday's)
300iu HCG 2x per week (Saturday and Tuesday, 600iu total)
.5mg Anastrozole (Monday, Wednesday, Friday, 1.5mg total)

On Wednesday (8/25) I got an email from the clinic's rep asking how everything was going. I replied that the physical symptoms of high estrogen levels had all but disappeared as a result of adding the anastrozole into my regimen, but that nothing else had changed. Libido was still in the dumps and mild fatigue was still present. At his request I sent him my protocol and as expected promptly received a somewhat terse email. He felt strongly that taking the .5mg of Anastrozole 3x per week was over doing it and was suppressing my hormone levels back to their original state. He felt that the "wash" effect being created could be countered if I increased my Test dose as the doctor had prescribed. (Doctor upped my prescription a couple of weeks ago from 200mg's once per week to 150mg's twice per week (total 300mg's) because I didn't seem to be responding as well as they had hoped to the original prescription.)

However, without bloodwork to confirm the need for that increase I opted (on my own) to keep my dosage at 200mg and begin the Anastrozole in the belief that lowering the estrogen in my body might just do the trick and negate the need for more Test. Just seemed to make sense.

As a result of that email I only took 2 capsules of Anastrozole last week (Mon. and Wed.) and have not experienced a need to take any more a full week later. My intent is to take them at this point only if symptoms develop that suggest they should be used.

If I adhere to the doctor's directions my protocol beginning next week should be as follows:

150mg Test Cypionate (2x per week Mon. & Thurs. 300mg total)
250iu HCG (2x per week Tues. & Sat. 500iu total)
.5mg Anastrozole (2x per week Sun. & Wed. 1mg total)

Will be seeing my primary tomorrow and will have her order the bloodwork (Rep. says I need to ask for a "Dr. Weston Male Panel.") I'll post the results as soon as I have them.

In the meantime I'd love to get some feedback.

**zaggahamma** · 09-01-2010, 11:47 AM

glad youre getting bloodwork soon..

i just did a search trying to see if i could find any positive benefits of snoring....COULDNT FIND A ONE.....all links and articles only mention negative sides

**Epic Ed** · 09-01-2010, 02:34 PM

If you are consistent with your test dose but inconsistent with your AI dose, you're going to bounce your E2 values all over the map. The key to successfully running an AI is to find the right dose that works for you to match the dose of test you're taking, and then run both consistently. The half life of Dex is about 56 hours if I recall correctly. Taking a dose every other day should give you predictable results.

**Jupiter2** · 09-01-2010, 03:03 PM

I was doing Monday, Wednesday, Friday and it definitely took care of the physical symptoms. But my capsules are at .50mg and the rep seemed to think that taking 3 per week was over doing it. The doctor originally prescribed it for twice per week but absent any gyno symptoms at this point I would really prefer to stay away from it; at least until I get the results of my bloodwork.

**flatscat** · 09-01-2010, 05:10 PM

Originally Posted by Jupiter2

I was doing Monday, Wednesday, Friday and it definitely took care of the physical symptoms. But my capsules are at .50mg and the rep seemed to think that taking 3 per week was over doing it. The doctor originally prescribed it for twice per week but absent any gyno symptoms at this point I would really prefer to stay away from it; at least until I get the results of my bloodwork.

Look bro, it is your body, you know it better than anyone. I freakin hate adex, but had to take it when I started. Now I basically dont. You wont die if you stop, you may feel better or worse, but you can always start it back up again. I have always thought that the adex works to bring E2 down faster then your body can raise it when you are not on it. So go for it and let us know what happens and how you are feeling. And good luck.

Flats

**Jupiter2** · 09-07-2010, 02:08 PM

Ok gang just received the results of the bloodwork that was done last week. Without thinking I walked into the doctor's office without fasting, so cholesterol, glucose and creatnine levels were affected (although not reported here). I don't think the hormonal results could have been skewed by my forgetfulness but I could be wrong.

Estradiol

Ref. Range: 7.6 - 42.6
May 2010: 18.3
Sept. 2010: 46.8

FSH, Serum

Ref. Range: 1.5 - 12.4
May 2010: 1.4
Sept. 2010: 0.2

Free Testosterone (Direct)

Ref. Range: 6.8 - 21.5
May 2010: 6.3
Sept. 2010: 32.0

Serum Testosterone

Ref. Range: 280 - 800
May 2010: 275
Sept 2010: 1150

Some interesting results. My estrogen is somewhat surprising as I did not take any Anastrozole the week prior to the bloodwork, but the week prior to that took 1.5mg's in total. Some breast tenderness that began to appear this weekend resulted in my taking a capsule yesterday (Monday).

I do have a concern about my FSH. Is this result of the TRT?. I know that HMG is an option to treat this but my understanding is that it is quite expensive. What would be the alternatives?

Ok gang, looking at my numbers I'd like some input on where I should be going with my treatment. I see no reason to up my Test dosage to 300mg per week given the result of my bloodwork. It does appear that I need to bring my estrogen level down some but it isn't extraordinarily high. I'm still experiencing mid morning and mid afternoon fatigue and moodiness, and libido is still non existant but my workouts are yielding some positive results which is a great sign. What do you all think?

**ds53** · 09-07-2010, 08:33 PM

Im glad your insurance pays, because mine will not pay 1 dollar on my therapy. Good ole Blue Cross and Blue Shield. Had United before them and they were not any better.

**Jupiter2** · 09-07-2010, 09:45 PM

Actually I have yet to test my insurance. My original bloodwork was done at my expense. This time I had my GP order it instead of the clinic. I'm hoping that my insurance (United Health) will cover it without a problem.

There are many clinics and each of them offer different prices. I didn't want to begin seeking reimbursement for my prescriptions before I found a clinic that I was comfortable with. That may have meant I would have been hopping from one to another for a time and I'm sure I would have had difficulty explaining that to the insurance company.

**Vettester** · 09-07-2010, 10:30 PM

Jup, yeah it's pretty normal for the the LH/FSH area of pituitary to be suppressed with HRT. That score is usually pretty low to begin with if a person is secondary, and it usually only goes down even more after TRT is administered. I really wouldn't be too concerned with FSH UNLESS you're looking to increase your chances for fertility. Is this the case? If not then I wouldn't be too concerned with it.

LH on the other hand is a different story. I know you're using HCG , which mimics LH. Any issues with this product?

Your Total T and Free T is kind of up there, Jup! How are some of the other labs like the lipids, RBC, etc.? The body will sometimes respond negatively when levels get elevated, thus throwing things out of balance. Everyone responds differently, as you know, but I'm just wondering how your disposition would be if your scores were down a bit. You've got a lot more free "T" working for you than most guys, which is great until it starts working against you. Any thoughts about this on your end?

**zaggahamma** · 09-07-2010, 10:34 PM

Originally Posted by Jupiter2

Ok gang just received the results of the bloodwork that was done last week. Without thinking I walked into the doctor's office without fasting, so cholesterol, glucose and creatnine levels were affected (although not reported here). I don't think the hormonal results could have been skewed by my forgetfulness but I could be wrong.

Estradiol

Ref. Range: 7.6 - 42.6
May 2010: 18.3
Sept. 2010: 46.8

FSH, Serum

Ref. Range: 1.5 - 12.4
May 2010: 1.4
Sept. 2010: 0.2

Free Testosterone (Direct)

Ref. Range: 6.8 - 21.5
May 2010: 6.3
Sept. 2010: 32.0

Serum Testosterone

Ref. Range: 280 - 800
May 2010: 275
Sept 2010: 1150

Some interesting results. My estrogen is somewhat surprising as I did not take any Anastrozole the week prior to the bloodwork, but the week prior to that took 1.5mg's in total. Some breast tenderness that began to appear this weekend resulted in my taking a capsule yesterday (Monday).

I do have a concern about my FSH. Is this result of the TRT?. I know that HMG is an option to treat this but my understanding is that it is quite expensive. What would be the alternatives?

Ok gang, looking at my numbers I'd like some input on where I should be going with my treatment. I see no reason to up my Test dosage to 300mg per week given the result of my bloodwork. It does appear that I need to bring my estrogen level down some but it isn't extraordinarily high. I'm still experiencing mid morning and mid afternoon fatigue and moodiness, and libido is still non existant but my workouts are yielding some positive results which is a great sign. What do you all think?

taper the test doseage down to 200 maybe that will get you high normal and maybe control estradiol even a lil more
when you mention libido, when u see an as$ like megan fox u dont just want to consume that as$????

**Jupiter2** · 09-08-2010, 06:24 PM

Thanks for the responses guys.

Vette, The doctor did a comprehensive metabolic panel but the results were skewed because I didn't fast. Still my cholesterol was 30 points lower this time around which was a nice surprise. Guess the niacin is doing it's job. Will be adding some Red Yeast Rice and CoQ10 to that very soon. Blood pressure was excellent as well.

As far as how I feel about it all... I'd say it's a mixed bag for me. The bloodwork shows that I've now got an abundance of Test in my system and it appears to be helping my physical appearance but I cannot say that I've experienced a lift with regard to my mood. Also my libido is back in the pits after having observed a slight increase shortly after starting on the program. Regarding the HCG I'm still using the remainder of the first vial I obtained. As I haven't felt the tingling sensation in the nads that I experienced when I first began using the product, it has likely expired.

Though I'm definitely not in the market for another child at this point it is a great feeling to know that you can orgasm with the best of the porn stars lol. Since FSH is responsible for spermatogenesis an orgasm without any ejaculate just seems to take away from the experience so I intend on researching my options.

JP, I never upped my dosage to the 300mg as the doctor prescribed because I felt that was putting the horse before the cart without having the bloodwork to justify it. As far as Megan Fox goes she is one sexy gal but when I say my libido is dead atm, I really mean it's dead lol.

**Vettester** · 09-08-2010, 08:01 PM

Jup, the HCG is only good for 60 days at best. In fact, from what I've noticed it really starts to lose it's potency after 45 days. That's why I ended up going with 5,000iu vials. That's usually just about enough before I'm ready for a fresh vial.

My orgasms have gone off the charts with dialing in the right dose of HCG. It took about 4 weeks or so to really get cooking, but when it kicked in it really went to town. I'm guessing your HCG is just out of date and not working properly.

**Jupiter2** · 09-09-2010, 11:52 AM

Had this discussion with the rep from my clinic as I wanted to go with 5,000iu vials as well. Problem stems from the fact that my doctor still wants me to inject 1,000iu's once per week even though established thinking seems to suggest that over the long term this may not be beneficial. Btw the rep. suggested that the established thoughts concerning the shelf life of HCG are likely wrong as well.

I guess I'll discard the remainder of the HCG that I have and prepare the new one.

**Vettester** · 09-09-2010, 04:08 PM

Jup, that HCG protocol will just keep throwing you out of balance. Reduce the volume and increase the frequency and you will see better results.

**Jupiter2** · 09-09-2010, 05:09 PM

I'm currently doing 300iu's 2x per week for a total of 600. I think that is adequate. I'm hoping a fresh batch will turn things around for me. We shall see.

**Vettester** · 09-09-2010, 06:11 PM

My fingers are crossed with you!

**Jupiter2** · 09-12-2010, 08:47 AM

Post deleted

**Jupiter2** · 09-12-2010, 09:11 AM

End of week 14 report. Week 15 began Thursday (9/8)

My protocol for last week was the following:

200mg Test Cyp (Thursday's)
300iu HCG 2x per week (Saturday and Tuesday, 600iu total)
.5mg Anastrozole (Monday)

Blood work results show that my decision to not increase my Test dose (against doctor's orders) to 300mg was a sound one. Test levels are more than adequate at this point. Estrogen levels are a bit on the high side but not extraordinarily so. As a result I intend to maintain my Anastrozole dosage at .5mg 1x per week until I have the blood work redone in another 8 weeks or so.

I discarded my old vial of HCG as I believe it had lost it's effectiveness. Injected my first dose from the new vial yesterday morning and by evening was experiencing what I can only describe as a dull ache in the "nads." Nothing uncomfortable mind you, just noticeable. I recall feeling this when I first began the HCG a few months ago. I guess this confirms that the old batch was definitely expired or it may just mean that I am an easy target for the placebo effect.

Sleeping through the night has become problematic for me once again over the last couple of weeks. I am still able to get up in the mornings with no difficulty however. Mid morning and mid afternoon fatigue is still occurring but moodiness seems to be stabilizing a bit. Libido remains noticeably absent from the therapy at this point but there is no doubt in my mind that household stress may be a contributing factor to that.

Workouts are going well but I continue to stay away from the gym as I fear that my strength increases will drive me beyond the limit of what my arm will allow. I am already noticing this at home during my workout routine. Body fat has dropped a bit but a cardio routine is needed at this point to accelerate the process and increase my stamina.

That's it for this week gang. Enjoy what's left of the weekend.