Age 23, low testosterone, need advice.

[BigMax88]

Hello! Firstly, thank you for your time. I've always been depressed. Had bitch tits since puberty. I'm always tired and have trouble concentrating. My hard-ons are weak and libido is meh. I wake up in the morning tired as hell and I have no motivation. I've had my testosterone checked 3 times in the past couple months. Here's the results:

TSH: 2.580 uIU/mL (0.400-4.000)
Testosterone Total (Collected on 8/23/2010, 9:35am): 395 ng/dL (270-1730)
Testosterone Total (Collected on 3/4/2011, 8:10am): 505 ng/dL (241-827)
Testosterone Total (Lost the paperwork! doh): 252 ng/dL (241-827)
-Free/Bioavail. Testosterone: 4.1 (units??) the low end was 11 I think. So I was WAY below normal. My test was done two hours after my strength training workout. So around 1:30pm.

I'm highly considering TRT. I feel so bad all the time, it's exhausting. Also, I have a "small" varicocele above my left testicle. It tends to shrink and grow a lot. Like at night it'll get really small and other times it's a bit bigger. Either way it's a lot smaller than my right testicle.

Here's what i'm doing right now(and what I did when I had test levels around 505):

Eating high fat diet(35% macro) of sat & poly fats. 2:1 ratio carbsrotein.
MAX-OT weight lifting (4-6 reps, no overtraining).
Jump roping and running for cardio.
No alcohol(once a month, 1 beer)
9 Hours sleep per night.
Supplementing with Zinc, Vit-B complex, Vit-C, Performance Multi-vitamin, Fish oil.

Basically, my levels are stuck at low. What should I do? I have no health insurance right now. I just signed up and that takes 2 months to become active. I'm looking for solid advice. Thanks & I appreciate you time!

[sirupate]

It is probably worth having a doctor try to find out why you are that low at such a young age. I'd be looking for an endocrinologist when you can afford it.

[zaggahamma]

hope you get it straight bro....do u have a doctor involved already (ordering and discussing those labs you listed)?

[BigMax88]

My GP really isn't into this field so he referred me to an endo(after me hassling him for it). I'm also thinking of going to a anti-aging clinic. They charge $150/mo plus the cost of the prescriptions. Should I just do that? I'm quite eager to get this under control. I'd really hate to have to wait two months. Eventually I'll go to an endo, but would getting on test now be ok?

Edit: I asked my GP for the testosterone tests. He doesn't think it affects my depression or anything. It was pissing me off. He doesn't even know what tribulus is ffs. My body is soft all the time and i'm tired of it. I eat clean, and weigh my food. I have high anxiety levels that meds aren't helping. Basically all the pieces fit the testosterone puzzle. Thanks guys.

[zaggahamma]

tough situation bro...i often wondered how long i could have been low T...you have one lab showing 500's total T but symptoms are so much more important...
i guess u havent seen the endo yet...you already know thats a hard route...sounds like your busting your ass and just chasing your tail...i can see the frustration bro..
maybe interview with this endo and the clinic and make the decision that you feel is right..

i hope u get it straight..keep us posted

[forrest_and_trees]

No doubt, your Total T is at the low end of normal however, based on your description, I'd say your E2 [Estrogen/Estradiol] is likely elevated, which can cause all of the symptoms you're describing, including low Free T and *especiallly* the "bitch tits" as you put it... What's your BFI? Do you consume a lot of soy based products, meat, poultry, milk and dairy?

I'd get your E2 checked before beginning anything else.

Since you don't have insurance, you can save yourself money by using one of the online blood labs to get it checked. [Just Google "online blood test". -Personally, I use privatemdlabs.com] It doesn't require a doctors script, which will save on the consult price, and their tests are cheaper than just about any other labs around.

Read up on elevated E2 in males and Xenoestrogens too. There's a lot of info about both throughout this forum or you can just Google them too.

Fortunately, if it is your E2, it's easy enough to get under control, and you can still live a long happy, normal life without TRT. Because, once you begin TRT, it *will* shut down your natural T production. TRT is for life, and at your age, that's a long time.

Best of luck and keep us posted.

F/T

[forrest_and_trees]

One other thing, Endos are great, but they're not cheap. I don't have insurance either, so when I learned I had Low T [and Hypothyroidism] 2 years ago, I looked into Endos. The first thing I found is none in the SF area would even see me without insurance accept one, and he charged $1000 an hour cash up front ...just for an initial consult! So I educated myself and found a GP who would work with me. It required educating him too about a couple of things, but the end result is what I needed. And... it's literally saved me *thousands*. [Not to mention my life.]

Unfortunately there are no short cuts with this stuff. You have to take an active roll in it, read up and learn as much as possible, keep asking questions and don't let uninformed or conservative doctors discourage you.

Cheers.

[BigMax88]

Thanks for the input. I can get blood tests done fairly cheap at my college. I.e. Testosterone test is $44. It's tough because now it's on my mind 24/7. I'd rather wait until my insurance kicks in to pay for all of this. I'd ****ing LOVE to be in the upper quartile of the "normal" range. I feel like a bitch right now lol. God damn.

I'll keep you guys posted on my progress. I think blogs are great for something relatively new.

[forrest_and_trees]

I won't lie to you, at 43, I do enjoy being in the upper range of normal, especially after not having the luxury my whole life. That said, you're young enough that you may be able to achieve it naturally if you can get your E2 under control as I'm almost positive that's what's holding you back. Just get the E2 tests, keep researching, AND... If you haven't already, read ALL the stickies at the top of this forum. There's TONS of info there.

Best of luck.

F/T

[BigMax88]

I'm going to play it smart and not just jump on the test. injection bandwagon. I'm sure I could get a script from the clinic. But, I'd rather stay natural if possible and figure out what's really going on. Sigh... that means waiting two months. I'm hitting the compound lifts hard and doing everything right. Hopefully, when it comes time to see the endo, my test. levels are around 500 and I have something curably wrong with me. Either way, I want my levels to be high. I don't mind injecting myself weekly either. The only down side would be potential side effects and having to explain myself to women if they find out. Plus traveling and things of that nature ($$$). I'll jump back on here once I find out what's going on. Thanks!

[BigMax88]

Ok, I found my paperwork for my latest testosterone check. Here is everything:

Collected: 3/22/2011 @ 3:03pm (2 hours after squat workout)
Testosterone Total: 252 NG/DL (Range: 241-827)
SHBG: 36.0 NMOL/L (Range: 13-71)
Testosterone Free: 4.6 NG/DL (Range: 6.0-27.0)

I converted the Total test to ng/dl and found my FAI to be 24.3%.

Does the SHBG value say anything else about what's going on? I know the bare minimum FAI is 30% and obviously I'm low. Free testosterone is low too. What do you think?

Also, when I see my endo, what should I ask to get tested? Here's my list so far:

Total Testosterone
Bioavailable Testosterone or Free Testosterone
SHBG
DHT
Estradiol (Specify "ultrasensitive" assay for men)
LH
FSH
Prolactin
Cortisol
Thyroid Panel
CBC
Comprehensive Metabolic Panel
Lipid Profile

[en7ropy]

How broke are you? There are doctors that will take a look at your blood levels and be able to monitor you and prescribe low level prescriptions for low testosterone . From everything I've read, TRT is only something to consider if you cannot produce your own test or are trying to boost your levels way above the "normal" ranges for extra gains.

I would suggest looking for a doctor that does "men's health" checkups. And keep in mind a doctors office is a business and while it may not seem like it, they CAN and DO negotiate prices, its just about how you ask. Cash pays better than insurance for most docs.

Hope this helps.

[BigMax88]

I produce my own test but in low levels. I talked to the anti-aging clinic and they wanted $1500 for comprehensive blood work and a monthly fee of $150. Yea, not happening. Though, they mentioned HCG for a young guy like myself. They said testosterone is for guys who are aging and don't mind infertility. It really comes down to the blood work to see if my testicles are functioning properly or if they're not being told to function. Also, I had a concussion(head trauma) when I was little that may have an affect on my testosterone production. Whatever, I just need to get this blood-work done a.s.a.p.

BTW, I'm ultra broke.

[forrest_and_trees]

BTW, I'm ultra broke.

If you go with one of online labs I suggested, it's less than $45 for a Estrogen total test and you can have your answer in about 3 days.

[Cyclehard]

I know that I had super low test one point but that was a systemic problem, the root cause being hypothyroidism.

[juicedouthrt]

Don't just jump straight into HRT! You'll be doing it for the rest of your life. Figure out what the issue is first from the doctor and see what alternatives there are. My test levels are naturally a 1/4 of yours so you're not exactly starving for T, so take the time and get an opinion.

PS - being ultra broke and going on TRT is not really going to work out that well...

[Bullseye Forever]

And be sure and get your estrogen checked my friend,it will make a huge difference,i just found ut mine btw,and i am on a very high dose of trt,and it wasnt doing squat fo me,i was still feeling depressed,tired,libido issues etc...hope you have the bestof uck my friend

[BigMax88]

Thanks guys. My insurance finally came through and I have an appointment with an urologist on the 25th. I'll post an update once I see the doc.

[zaggahamma]

Thanks guys. My insurance finally came through and I have an appointment with an urologist on the 25th. I'll post an update once I see the doc.

great..please do....good luck bro

[BigMax88]

Ok, just got back from the Urologist. Guy was a total asshole. I He said my 252 test level was fine and that he never has seen anyone above the ~400 range. He said no guy is in the 800 range and that number doesn't even matter. I was like well my free test is low and he said blah blah blah you're fine. I mentioned how test might bind with estrogen and he laughed and said I was doing too much research. I also mentioned HCG and he said it was crap. He said there's no study by a respectable journal/article that says it works. Then he said to just go to the Endo if I wanted to play with my hormone numbers. Ugh... I'm pissed.

[Shol'va]

Dont get discouraged. Your Doctor is an idiot. It comes from upbringing. His parents were probably idiots also. The only real statement that came out of his mouth is go to an Endo or at the least another Doctor. Dont let the door hit you in the azz on the way out of this douche bags office. It's obvious this man got his degree from the online degree site "Degrees For Dummies" for 19.95 AS Seen On TV's late night infomercial. There are Doctors out there who actually know what they are talking about. Unfortunately, sometimes you have to go through a few bad ones at first. Good Luck

[zaggahamma]

Ok, just got back from the Urologist. Guy was a total asshole. I He said my 252 test level was fine and that he never has seen anyone above the ~400 range. He said no guy is in the 800 range and that number doesn't even matter. I was like well my free test is low and he said blah blah blah you're fine. I mentioned how test might bind with estrogen and he laughed and said I was doing too much research. I also mentioned HCG and he said it was crap. He said there's no study by a respectable journal/article that says it works. Then he said to just go to the Endo if I wanted to play with my hormone numbers. Ugh... I'm pissed.

Dayam bro...they shouldnt be able to collect their payment from your insurance if they dont treat you....this guy is a TOTAL douche bro...sorry...he wasted your time and probably your and/or your insurances money....200's levels are ok??? man i wanna go for an appt and piss on the mf's floor

[BigMax88]

Yea he talked about "snake oil" docs that like to give a solution to everything in the form of a pill/injection. He got angry that I kinda knew what I was talking about but immediately dismissed it all. "But if you do decide to go down that path, be weary of it and be careful." in regards to TRT. He basically wanted nothing to do with TRT "especially at my age." I had to pay $120 out of pocket for the initial visit. My insurance pays $75 and covers 100% of the lab work. So, I can get the Crisler(sp?) list done for free. So, I pay up front a little bit for the endo, follow ups are free and all lab work is free. Generic RX's are $10 copay. Brand names are out-of-pocket up to $800. So, hopefully, HCG and any A.I.'s have generic forms. I just have to wait and save up another $122 to see an endo. I'll keep ya posted as always. thanks.

[GotNoBlueMilk]

Your total T went from 500 to 250 in two weeks, according to your results. This is more about fluctuation than chronic low T. At your age, it would pay to really zone in on some natural soltuions. Being over trained will lower T levels. Lack of Vitamin D and A. There are a lot of things to consider.

You don't have E2 levels listed, so I assume they were not tested. With T at 500 and your symptoms I would bet your E is playing a part in that. Problem is, really low and really high will both give those symptoms.

[BigMax88]

Okie dokie, I have an Endo appointment set for May 3rd. This time it's a woman at an Endocrinology center. I think my test has gone up a bit since I quit drinking. My erections are much more solid now and I get constant night wood. I didn't feel like jerkin' the ol' snake before but now I'm horny as ****. But, I've felt like this before and my test was 505 then. That's when I was working out hard and eating clean. I'm taking Vit B, C and D concentrated with zinc. Also, I started taking super concentrated veggie powder for the benefits of that. In addition, I bought some Nettle Root Extract and I've been taking 300mg of that daily. Hopefully, this doc will give me a full screening and not waste my time.

[MJRuff01]

Okie dokie, I have an Endo appointment set for May 3rd. This time it's a woman at an Endocrinology center. I think my test has gone up a bit since I quit drinking. My erections are much more solid now and I get constant night wood. I didn't feel like jerkin' the ol' snake before but now I'm horny as ****. But, I've felt like this before and my test was 505 then. That's when I was working out hard and eating clean. I'm taking Vit B, C and D concentrated with zinc. Also, I started taking super concentrated veggie powder for the benefits of that. In addition, I bought some Nettle Root Extract and I've been taking 300mg of that daily. Hopefully, this doc will give me a full screening and not waste my time.

Get your LH and FSH levels checked as well.

[BigMax88]

Ok, just got back from the Endo! Here's how it went down:

She checked my testicle sizes(normal) and my arm span. She had a odd diagnoses for me. I forgot what it was called but it started with a C. Basically, when someone is taller than normal and has low testosterone . Plus some other things, I forget. Anyways, here's the blood test i'm getting tomorrow morning at 11:45am(fasting).

Chromosome karyotype study (a genetic DNA analysis)
DHEA-S
Estrogens, total
Follicle stimulating hormone
Luteinizing hormone
Prolactin
PSA
Somatomedin (IGF2??)
Testosterone , free
testosterone, total

She said cortisol didn't need to be checked unless some of these tests are abnormal. I'm happy with it. She was super nice. Supposedly, it's going to take up to 2 weeks for the results :/.