New member Mario's trt

**Mario L** · 10-14-2011, 08:51 AM

Hello everyone. Been lurking for about a month now. And doing alot of reading here. I think by far this is one of the best trt/hrt forums i've seen. Alot of highly knowledgeable respectful people and alot of helping out each other.

I began researching trt because of symptoms of low T. Low energy, waking up tired after a good night sleep. Low libito. I figured for 31 years old I should feel a little better than I do. So on my physical with my primary, I asked to have my levels checked. T level came back low normal and for my age I believe it was low all together. They drew about 7-8 vials of blood. I will post all the results after I get home later.

Just wanted to say hello and thanks for making this forum a great one.

**steroid.com 1** · 10-14-2011, 09:22 AM

Do you know if they ordered a complete Thyroid panel? Hypothyroidism has most of the same symptoms as hypogonadism.

Low normal for a 31 year old is a little early in the game but it can happen as an age related decline believe it or not.

Post when you get your results...with ranges.

And welcome aboard Mario!

**Titleesq** · 10-14-2011, 09:28 AM

Welcome. If you post your labs you will get tons of great feedback.

Good luck!!!

**Mario L** · 10-14-2011, 09:50 AM

Yes my doc did a full panel CBC lipid. Thyroid. Also e2, total t, shbg dhea-s along with others. To me the others seem to be in normal range. But I'm not an expert and docs aren't always the best either. There's more knowledge here than most docs seem to know.

**warchild** · 10-14-2011, 10:38 AM

test levels and your body starts slowly depleting at 30

**bass** · 10-14-2011, 12:53 PM

Originally Posted by Mario L

Yes my doc did a full panel CBC lipid. Thyroid. Also e2, total t, shbg dhea-s along with others. To me the others seem to be in normal range. But I'm not an expert and docs aren't always the best either. There's more knowledge here than most docs seem to know.

great, sounds like your doc is on the right track!

**zaggahamma** · 10-14-2011, 02:05 PM

good luck...age as usual is a pretty irrelevant number...

symptoms and bloodwork

good luck

**Mario L** · 10-14-2011, 02:10 PM

wbc 5.6 4.0-10.5 k/ul
rbc 4.91 4.7-6 m/ul
hgb 14.4 13.5-18 gm/dl
hct 42.2% 40-54%
mcv 85.8 78-100 fl
mch 29.2 27-31 pg
mchc 34.0 32-36 gm/dl
platelet count 237 150-450 k/ul
rdw 12.9 11.5-14.5%
neutrophils 47.7 25-62%
lymphocytes 41.6 20-48%
monocytes 8.8 2-12%
eosinophils 1.7 0-6%
basophils 0.2 0-2%
absolute neut. 2.7 1.8-7.8 k/ul
absolute lymphs 2.3 1.0-4.8 k/ul
absolute monos 0.5 0.0-0.8 k/ul
absolute eos 0.1 0.0-0.2 k/ul
absolute basos 0.0 0.0-0.2 k/ul

fasting glucose 88 70-100 mg/dl
blood urea nitrogen 14 9-20 mg/dl
creatinine 0.8 0.7-1.3 mg/dl
est. gfr >60
sodium 141 135-145 mmol/l
potassium 4.6 3.5-5.5 mmol/l
chloride 103 98-107 mmol/l
co2 29 24-32mmol/l
calcium 8.9 8.4-10.2 mg/dl
total protein 7.4 6.3-8.2 gm/dl
albumin 4.0 3.5-5.0 gm/dl
total bilirubin 0.5 0.2-1.3 mg/dl
ast (sgot) 21 5-40 iu/l
alt (sgpt) 25 11-66 iu/l
alk phos 59 38-126 iu/l
cholesterol 264 0-200 mg/dl
triglycerides 113 40-160 mg/dl
hdl 42 32-70 mg/dl
ldl (calculated) 199 50-130u/l
tsh 3.24 0.35-5.50 uiU/ml
free t4 1.1 0.89-1.76 ng/ml
prolactin 15.8 2.8-29.2 ng/ml

fsh 3.7 3-20 miu/ml
lh 4.8 2-15 miu/ml
hgb a1c 5.8 4.0-6.0%
total T 326 240-950ng/dl
dhea-s 334 65-334 mcg/dl
estradiol 24 10-40 pg/ml

**Mario L** · 10-14-2011, 02:11 PM

any of these numbers say anything important. doc says watch saturated fat intake.

**Mario L** · 10-14-2011, 02:21 PM

Oh a few stats. 6'1" 223lbs
Married, kids and have a vasectomy.

**lvs** · 10-14-2011, 02:35 PM

saying that because your cholesterol is high. Are you missing Free-T and/or bioavailable? Your fsh and lh are fairly low in my opinion for your age, which could explain your fairly low total T, but Free-T is more important. Other more experienced folks will chime in I'm sure.

Originally Posted by Mario L

any of these numbers say anything important. doc says watch saturated fat intake.

**Mario L** · 10-14-2011, 02:39 PM

Missed it
T free,s 12.6 9-30 ng/dl

**bass** · 10-14-2011, 02:42 PM

Originally Posted by lvs

saying that because your cholesterol is high. Are you missing Free-T and/or bioavailable? Your fsh and lh are fairly low in my opinion for your age, which could explain your fairly low total T, but Free-T is more important. Other more experienced folks will chime in I'm sure.

I agree with your notes, also i would suggest to do PSA test so you know what your base level is, and then monitor it after you start TRT, if you start TRT!

**bass** · 10-14-2011, 02:49 PM

Originally Posted by Mario L

Oh a few stats. 6'1" 223lbs
Married, kids and have a vasectomy.

based on your blood work it seems that the surgeon snapped more than was needed! just kidding Mario! i don't know anything about vasectomy but i wonder if that has any effect on test, fsh and lh! after all our nuts is what converts other hormone to testosterone !

**lvs** · 10-14-2011, 02:50 PM

this appears low as well. Your TSH and Free-T4 values look good which indicate no thyroid/pituitary issues and look to show some signs of early primary hypogonadism. any history of testicular trauma or testosterone use in the past?

Originally Posted by Mario L

Missed it
T free,s 12.6 9-30 ng/dl

**Mario L** · 10-14-2011, 03:31 PM

Originally Posted by lvs

any history of testicular trauma or testosterone use in the past?

when I was 15 I got kicked in the nuts. Not like the normal hit them on the bike handlebars. More like damn this could be very bad. Sore for many days after. And never really fully developed to a full size. I believe. Then again I really never compared nut size

**lvs** · 10-14-2011, 03:39 PM

I will be interested in hearing what your doctor has to say.

**Mario L** · 10-14-2011, 03:56 PM

Doctor basically said everything was normal except cholesterol. She said I could go to an endo if I wanted. But I did that route already, brought up these issues 3 years ago with my last gp who was a endo. Said I was fine. So I switched to this primary figured maybe she could help. It doesn't look to promising. I have few trt clinics willing to help me out though.

**bass** · 10-14-2011, 04:00 PM

Originally Posted by Mario L

Doctor basically said everything was normal except cholesterol. She said I could go to an endo if I wanted. But I did that route already, brought up these issues 3 years ago with my last gp who was a endo. Said I was fine. So I switched to this primary figured maybe she could help. It doesn't look to promising. I have few trt clinics willing to help me out though.

yup, unfortunately that maybe your only option for now, clinics!

**Mario L** · 10-14-2011, 06:03 PM

So it seems like testicular damage is causing primary hypogonadism. That's what I suspected for years.

**kelkel** · 10-14-2011, 06:25 PM

LabCorp reference ranges for T have changed btw as of 10/10/11. They are now 348 - 1197 ng/dl. maybe that will help your cause, or start looking for a new doc if this one won't help. Will insurance cover it for you if prescribed?

**Mario L** · 10-14-2011, 06:38 PM

It says test cyp and androgel are covered but need prior authorization. I wonder if I look for another doctor will they cover it and they cover another blood test.

**steroid.com 1** · 10-14-2011, 08:38 PM

Originally Posted by lvs

this appears low as well. Your TSH and Free-T4 values look good which indicate no thyroid/pituitary issues and look to show some signs of early primary hypogonadism. any history of testicular trauma or testosterone use in the past?

This is totally an incorrect statment.

**steroid.com 1** · 10-14-2011, 09:02 PM

fasting glucose 88 70-100 mg/dl
This is fine.

albumin 4.0 3.5-5.0 gm/dl
This appears "ok" giving that you're not binding at an excessive level. Need more however...

cholesterol 264 0-200 mg/dl
Bit high, but could be for a lot of reasons.

tsh 3.24 0.35-5.50 uiU/ml
Your TSH levels are very high and probably why you feel like you do. Anything over 2 is of concern and anything over 3 suggests a problem pointing at Hypothyroidism. You need to find out why this is happening. The end results of Hypothyroidism are not good.

free t4 1.1 0.89-1.76 ng/ml
1.1 for T4 is at the low end; you'd like to see this panel at the high end. Makes sense giving your TSH levels, however.

fsh 3.7 3-20 miu/ml
Very low and suggests Secondary Hypogonadism.

lh 4.8 2-15 miu/ml
Very low and coincides with the low FSH levels.

total T 326 240-950ng/dl
Low normal and makes sense giving the FSH and LH serum levels. You are low....

T free,s 12.6 9-30 ng/dl
Low. But makes total sense given your low LH and FSH panels.

dhea-s 334 65-334 mcg/dl
You'd expect to see this panel lower giving everything else above. Are you supplementing Pregnenolone or DHEA?

estradiol 24 10-40 pg/ml[/QUOTE]
Nice! No E2 issues.

Did you get a SHBG panel in your blood work? Would like to see that....

Your high TSH levels means you need to see more than just T4. Need to see T3, RT3, Free T3, antibodies...there are more. Please note, you have a Thyroid issue and you need it addressed.

Add to your low LH and FSH and it points to your overall low Test levels; now add in possible Hypothyroidism and you have a man who is a possible candidate for TRT and Thyroid meds.

Are you under a lot of stress or delt with stress most of your life? I wouldn't be surprised if you don't have adrenal fatique to bat.

**SlimmerMe** · 10-14-2011, 09:26 PM

Agree with gdevine that your TSH is high. Remember high means low and low means high when reading TSH levels since they are to be read inversely; hence yours is on the low thyroid side which is hypothyroid.

**Mario L** · 10-15-2011, 07:30 AM

Originally Posted by gdevine

dhea-s 334 65-334 mcg/dl
You'd expect to see this panel lower giving everything else above. Are you supplementing Pregnenolone or DHEA?
No never supplements

Did you get a SHBG panel in your blood work? Would like to see that....
I'll see if I can get my doc to check this

Your high TSH levels means you need to see more than just T4. Need to see T3, RT3, Free T3, antibodies...there are more. Please note, you have a Thyroid issue and you need it addressed.

Add to your low LH and FSH and it points to your overall low Test levels; now add in possible Hypothyroidism and you have a man who is a possible candidate for TRT and Thyroid meds.
also will talk to doc.

Are you under a lot of stress or delt with stress most of your life? I wouldn't be surprised if you don't have adrenal fatique to bat.
Signs and symptoms of adrenal insufficiency include: from the mayo clinic site of which I only have fatigue.
Fatigue
Body aches
Unexplained weight loss
Low blood pressure
Lightheadedness
Loss of body hair
Not like they are talking about though like only getting out of bed for a few hours a day. So I would rule out adrenal fatique for myself.

Thanks for the insight on my bloodwork.

**lvs** · 10-15-2011, 10:20 AM

I stand corrected. Thanks. Sorry for missing the proper interpretation.

Originally Posted by gdevine

fasting glucose 88 70-100 mg/dl
This is fine.

albumin 4.0 3.5-5.0 gm/dl
This appears "ok" giving that you're not binding at an excessive level. Need more however...

cholesterol 264 0-200 mg/dl
Bit high, but could be for a lot of reasons.

tsh 3.24 0.35-5.50 uiU/ml
Your TSH levels are very high and probably why you feel like you do. Anything over 2 is of concern and anything over 3 suggests a problem pointing at Hypothyroidism. You need to find out why this is happening. The end results of Hypothyroidism are not good.

free t4 1.1 0.89-1.76 ng/ml
1.1 for T4 is at the low end; you'd like to see this panel at the high end. Makes sense giving your TSH levels, however.

fsh 3.7 3-20 miu/ml
Very low and suggests Secondary Hypogonadism.

lh 4.8 2-15 miu/ml
Very low and coincides with the low FSH levels.

total T 326 240-950ng/dl
Low normal and makes sense giving the FSH and LH serum levels. You are low....

T free,s 12.6 9-30 ng/dl
Low. But makes total sense given your low LH and FSH panels.

dhea-s 334 65-334 mcg/dl
You'd expect to see this panel lower giving everything else above. Are you supplementing Pregnenolone or DHEA?

estradiol 24 10-40 pg/ml

Nice! No E2 issues.

Did you get a SHBG panel in your blood work? Would like to see that....

Your high TSH levels means you need to see more than just T4. Need to see T3, RT3, Free T3, antibodies...there are more. Please note, you have a Thyroid issue and you need it addressed.

Add to your low LH and FSH and it points to your overall low Test levels; now add in possible Hypothyroidism and you have a man who is a possible candidate for TRT and Thyroid meds.

Are you under a lot of stress or delt with stress most of your life? I wouldn't be surprised if you don't have adrenal fatique to bat.[/QUOTE]

**lvs** · 10-15-2011, 10:47 AM

Thanks for the correction, and sorry of the misintretation. gd seems to know his blood tests..

Originally Posted by gdevine

This is totally an incorrect statment.

**Mario L** · 10-15-2011, 11:20 AM

How long does it take for a mod to approve a post? I posted and it said once a mod approves the post it will show up

**black6** · 10-15-2011, 11:21 AM

Originally Posted by bass

based on your blood work it seems that the surgeon snapped more than was needed! just kidding Mario! i don't know anything about vasectomy but i wonder if that has any effect on test, fsh and lh! after all our nuts is what converts other hormone to testosterone!

Im getting one done this Fri. He said it would not affect anything at all. The sperm would just go out into the ball sac and not go out like normal. But as far as TRT no affect.

**Mario L** · 10-15-2011, 11:25 AM

Well anyway to answer gdevines questions. No I haven't been supplementing dhea or progesterone. And no stress in my life or really none in the past. Out of all the symptoms of adrenal fatigue from the mayo clinic., I only have fatigue. So I think I can rule out adrenal fatigue.

**Mario L** · 10-18-2011, 05:05 PM

So if you bring our Total T levels up with 100-150 mg a week to the High normal range say 900-1100, would you be shut down completely? Or would it not shut you down as hard as say 500mg a week? I guess my question is would your body still produce natural T with a therapeutic dose of extraneous Test?

**steroid.com 1** · 10-18-2011, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by Mario L;5***225

So if you bring our Total T levels up with 100-150 mg a week to the High normal range say 900-1100, would you be shut down completely? Or would it not shut you down as hard as say 500mg a week? I guess my question is would your body still produce natural T with a therapeutic dose of extraneous Test?

You will be shut down at that dosage. However, adding in hCG would keep up some natural production. Without and your testes will be in organ shut down and begin to atrophy.

**Mario L** · 10-18-2011, 06:47 PM

Thanks GD

The docs protocol includes test cyp, hcg and arimidex . The problem that I have now that I received my meds from the compound pharmacy is that the arimidex is also a compound in a 1mg capsule. Could I take apart the capsule and divide the med into half or quarters and take it without the capsule? I was thinking of just simplifying thing and ordering from AR-R but they don't seem to be there.

**bass** · 10-18-2011, 07:10 PM

my clinic prescribed capsule adex and i refused it, i told them i want the pill and they did! what are your doses for all of your meds?

**Mario L** · 10-18-2011, 07:24 PM

300 mg test cyp weekly
500iu 2x week
1 mg Arimidex day after test injection
I'm gonna get a baseline with 50mg 2x week, 250 iu hcg 2x a week. Just trying to figure this capsule AI thing out.

**JD250** · 10-18-2011, 09:43 PM

I divide capsules all the time, no problem, you'll just need something to store the remaining dose or doses in.

**bass** · 10-18-2011, 09:57 PM

Originally Posted by Mario L;5***375

300 mg test cyp weekly
500iu 2x week
1 mg Arimidex day after test injection
I'm gonna get a baseline with 50mg 2x week, 250 iu hcg 2x a week. Just trying to figure this capsule AI thing out.

wow 300! 1mg Adex won't do much for that dose! generally for every 100 mgs test you need 1 mg Adex.

BTW, 300 was my blast dose!

**JohnnyVegas** · 10-18-2011, 10:00 PM

300 mg/week Test is a lot. Be careful with the Arimidex as many don't need it while on TRT. It will do more harm then good if you take it while not needing it.

**Mario L** · 10-19-2011, 06:37 AM

Originally Posted by JohnnyVegas;5***523

300 mg/week Test is a lot. Be careful with the Arimidex as many don't need it while on TRT. It will do more harm then good if you take it while not needing it.

I'm going to try to go without the arimidex as a starting point, see how I feel and what the BW say in 6 weeks.