sub q test guys?

[Brickhouse]

This is interesting as I am new to all of this!! I always thought any Test had to be done via IM? Lets say for example the delt, that site can be used for SC Test?

[JD250]

Sub Q can be done anywhere that you can pinch up a little skin and fat, stomach, hips, quads and such are preferred areas as they are easier to reach.

[flatscat]

This is interesting as I am new to all of this!! I always thought any Test had to be done via IM? Lets say for example the delt, that site can be used for SC Test?

If you are new to this it might be best stick to one method and protocol and establish your baselines and get to know your body for 4-5 months, then you should be able to judge how the new protocol effects your labs and how you feel. JMHO and good luck!

[ecdysone]

who says theres no sterility issue, you? Well, I say there is... doesn't matter how many do it without issue.

Back filling a syringe isnt that complicated.

Dont understand how the number of times you draw would affect a sealed container, the needle is sterile, the top is sterile after alcohol swab?

Every time you break through the septum you introduce air from the surrounding environment. That's why the manufacturers are required to use a Class 5 clean room when they fill them.

The hospital I worked at many years ago had a strict rule about what are called "multiuse vials." After the seal was penetrated, the manufacturer's expiration date was voided, and the vial could only be used for a maximum of 28 days. We also followed the CDC rule to use single use vials whenever possible.

I've noticed that with my test-cyp vials the needle slides in alot easier after the first dozen or so penetrations which probably means the seal is less than desirable.

I've had no issues with contamination no matter the technique used, but was just pointing out that neither is the best or necessarily superior to the other.

[HitIt]

why are people in a hurry to inject? It should be done carefully and slowly..it takes me maybe 60 seconds to draw 20UI's (50mg of 250mg/ml) and 10 secs to inject with a 29g needle. 1 minute 10 secs is too long? as for im or sc, don't really know the difference since ester cleavage takes place in the blood stream. i could guess that absorption into the blood stream is slower via sc than via im and perhaps this leads to a steadier release of cleaved test molecules as opposed to a more sudden increase after im injection. i prefer sc to im mostly due to tiny needles (tend to be cheaper as well) and not having to cut into muscle fibers as well as avoiding big veins.

edit: correction

[meathead320]

Fetch, i convert easily to e2, but since i started doing SQ injection and split my dose to twice a week i only take 1 mg adex, if done IM i have to take 1.5 mg AI. two benefits from switching to SQ, test is more stable, e2 conversion is minimal, and no long needle stabbing! let us know once you get your blood work results, i am curious to know where you're at with e2!

Honestly this is the first thread I heave really read about injecting into fat vs. muscle. 99% of what I have read before indicates that any Test-Cyp has to go into muscle for it to even be of benefit.

As a guy who has had issues with E2 conversion myself, this is very interesting to me.

Any idea as to why less is converting to E2?

How about DHT? With standard IM 100mg EW test cype I have noticed my DHT really is not that high. While some see it as the bogeyman I have always considered DHT to be important for sex drive too. I'd guess that if E2 was kept down that more of the test would turn to DHT, which would be a good thing at least in my case.

Any info on that?

[keep fightin]

HitIt, even quicker than Bass! I will try your method this week.your go to location for pinning?

[bass]

Honestly this is the first thread I heave really read about injecting into fat vs. muscle. 99% of what I have read before indicates that any Test-Cyp has to go into muscle for it to even be of benefit.

As a guy who has had issues with E2 conversion myself, this is very interesting to me.

Any idea as to why less is converting to E2?

How about DHT? With standard IM 100mg EW test cype I have noticed my DHT really is not that high. While some see it as the bogeyman I have always considered DHT to be important for sex drive too. I'd guess that if E2 was kept down that more of the test would turn to DHT, which would be a good thing at least in my case.

Any info on that?

it was based on a Canadian study GDevine posted. here is the link,
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...56#post5757556

[HitIt]

HitIt, even quicker than Bass! I will try your method this week.your go to location for pinning?

i just alternate each side of my belly button...

edit: an inch or two away from the belly button

[ecdysone]

HitIt, even quicker than Bass! I will try your method this week.your go to location for pinning?

Just Google "insulin injection sites" since you'll be following their technique, for example:
http://www.drugs.com/cg/giving-an-in...injection.html

Those two studies of SQ injections didn't appear in any well-known journals and it's nearly impossible to find anything other than abstracts,
but I, along with alot of other guys can prove it works by our lab work. My last E2 came in at 7 so I'm thinking about dropping Adex entirely,
although I wouldn't necessarily attribute it to SQ vs. IM just yet.

[JD250]

Since I started sub Q a few weeks ago i've noticed that my acne is 80% of what it was before....I can't prove anything but I have tried many different things to get rid of it, might be a total coincidence too, I'll see how it goes in the coming months.

[kelkel]

Less is converting to E2 as your injecting half the amount twice a week so there is less of a spike in levels (theory anyway.) All T converts to DHT everywhere in the body except in muscle. The conversation takes place via the 5 Alpha Reductase Enzyme which lives pretty much everywhere in our bodies. T is basically a pro-hormone for DHT. From what I've read I would think living somewhere in the upper end of the DHT range would be a good thing. Also remember dht is an estrogen agonist too.

Honestly this is the first thread I heave really read about injecting into fat vs. muscle. 99% of what I have read before indicates that any Test-Cyp has to go into muscle for it to even be of benefit.

As a guy who has had issues with E2 conversion myself, this is very interesting to me.

Any idea as to why less is converting to E2?

How about DHT? With standard IM 100mg EW test cype I have noticed my DHT really is not that high. While some see it as the bogeyman I have always considered DHT to be important for sex drive too. I'd guess that if E2 was kept down that more of the test would turn to DHT, which would be a good thing at least in my case.

Any info on that?

[keep fightin]

ecdyone, thanks for the info, anybody try loading with an 18 then going S.Q. with a 27? got both laying around, think I will give it a go

[steroid.com 1]

ecdyone is correct; the Canadian clinical research noted in bass's link is all but the only one that can be found on the subject...and in abstract form. That being said, it demonstrated that TRT by SQ produced steadier testosterone levels , better E2 control and improved sense of well-being. There are compounding pharmas now that are preloading insulin syringes for just this purpose as well...it's starting to become more main stream.

It's a personal choice from where I sit; do what is more comfortable for you and what your labs tell you.

Either way works there's no denying that...

[meathead320]

Does sub-Q absolutely require a 27g or 29g slin pin?

Could I just use a 25g 5/8th" pin?

I mean are there any sterility issues that the slightly bigger pin would cause, or is it more about comfort/pain?

[flatscat]

Great question

[bass]

Does sub-Q absolutely require a 27g or 29g slin pin?

Could I just use a 25g 5/8th" pin?

I mean are there any sterility issues that the slightly bigger pin would cause, or is it more about comfort/pain?

28 g. is the smallest they make in slin pin, i don't see a problem using 25 g as long as you don't go into muscle. inject slowly to avoid prolonged lumps, and always massage for about a minute or so. one thing might happen, going in so shallow with a large needle may cause test to leak out after you pull, i am not exactly sure if this will happen, i guess you can try it and let us know!

[HitIt]

bass i use 29g .5ml and 30g 1ml pins, both are .5 inch...not sure what the smallest is but 31g was the smallest i could find but they were only 5/16 long

[bass]

bass i use 29g .5ml and 30g 1ml pins, both are .5 inch...not sure what the smallest is but 31g was the smallest i could find but they were only 5/16 long

sorry I was thinking numbers, i meant the largest gauge!

[ecdysone]

Yeah, I've been using a 31G for awhile, but loading with a 23G.

As far as SQ goes, I would think you need to use something fairly small to keep leakage to a minimum. Haven't even though about something over 29G, and honestly, the slin pins aren't all that expensive.

[flatscat]

You could manipulate the pinched area of injection upon removal of the pin to minimize any leakage.

[Times Roman]

when i first started TRT, my doc was injecting SubQ but tellingme it was IM.

it has something to do with the way test is metabolized in BF as can happen with SubQ. But I really haven't seen any good data (not that it doesn't exist) that correlates the efficiency of test subQ vs IM

i only use a 1" needle. when i poke it in my ass, i image that it might not be as IM as I think, but not too worried about it either.

[Black]

Such a debated topic that I've been reading about lately. I remember hearing/reading long ago that anything but a deep, intramuscular injection was undesirable.

The only way to truly know is by self-experience/testing and bloodwork.

I have some 29g, 1/2" needles lying around. I think I'll split my dosage up and do some bi-weekly SubQ injections.

Now, I think I have an idea of how to back load a syringe, but can someone give me a quick run through? Thanks.

[bass]

Such a debated topic that I've been reading about lately. I remember hearing/reading long ago that anything but a deep, intramuscular injection was undesirable.

The only way to truly know is by self-experience/testing and bloodwork.

I have some 29g, 1/2" needles lying around. I think I'll split my dosage up and do some bi-weekly SubQ injections.

Now, I think I have an idea of how to back load a syringe, but can someone give me a quick run through? Thanks.

bi weekly?! you mean twice a week!

most of us doing SQ don't back fill, we are patient so we wait 3 minutes or so to draw then 10-15 seconds to inject! i use 28 g. slin pin, it helps with loading.

[Black]

bi weekly?! you mean twice a week!

http://i.word.com/idictionary/biweekly

It's cool, but whatever. I guess that's why my name isn't in red.

[JohnnyVegas]

Biweekly = every two weeks.
Semiweekly = twice a week.

"Bi-" means two.
"Semi-" means half.

[Black]

Biweekly = every two weeks.
Semiweekly = twice a week.

"Bi-" means two.
"Semi-" means half.

Thanks for the school lesson. However, bi does mean two, but 2 what? Two times a week maybe?

http://i.word.com/idictionary/biweekly

Again, I'm only in blue. Sorry.