sub q test guys?

**OutLaw8.5** · 12-08-2011, 11:46 AM

Why the alternation between sub q and IM?

TRied my first sub q last night... Too easy! Wondering really why one would switch back and forth!

Thanks in advance

**APIs** · 12-08-2011, 11:55 AM

I dont get it why people do it. Maybe I should try it sometime...

**ecdysone** · 12-08-2011, 12:12 PM

delete

**steroid.com 1** · 12-08-2011, 01:02 PM

I mix it up as there are times I don't have the time it takes for SQ...IM is much faster. Also, I believe the body cleaves the esters differently in body fat versus muscle tissue. I like the variation.

**bass** · 12-08-2011, 01:16 PM

still doing SQ and i might switched it up once in a while just to give the area a break, but i highly favor SQ over IM! i ordered 28g x 1/2" slin syringes, this should be little faster on the draw!

**OutLaw8.5** · 12-08-2011, 01:19 PM

G- I saw your recent blood work, how often have you been doing sub q? Long enough to get accurate reading in blood work I'm sure?

CAn you elaborate on how you think it acts differently sub q ame I'M

THanks again

**OutLaw8.5** · 12-08-2011, 01:21 PM

Bass, did you get your blood work back yet? AND that last blood was full blown sub q if I'm not mistaken correct?

Thanks for dropping in

**steroid.com 1** · 12-08-2011, 01:42 PM

Originally Posted by OutLaw8.5

G- I saw your recent blood work, how often have you been doing sub q?
About 1.5 years.

Long enough to get accurate reading in blood work I'm sure?
I'd think so.

CAn you elaborate on how you think it acts differently sub q ame I'M
There was a Canadian clinical research done a few years ago that demonstrated that TRT by SQ produced steadier testosterone levels and improved a better sense of well-being in men. Google the study, it's easy to find.

THanks again

In Bold.

**bass** · 12-08-2011, 01:46 PM

Originally Posted by OutLaw8.5

Bass, did you get your blood work back yet? AND that last blood was full blown sub q if I'm not mistaken correct?

Thanks for dropping in

here it is. keep in mind i was on var as well, which i am sure had some negative effects on my levels.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...45#post5819145

**OutLaw8.5** · 12-08-2011, 02:05 PM

You guys are the be(a)st :0)

**ecdysone** · 12-08-2011, 02:22 PM

Originally Posted by gdevine

There was a Canadian clinical research done a few years ago that demonstrated that TRT by SQ produced steadier testosterone levels and improved a better sense of well-being in men. Google the study, it's easy to find.
.

The abstracts of the Canadian one and the Saudi (I think) are easy to find, but I never could locate a good source for the actual papers. Would be nice to know exactly what they found, since there do not appear to have been
any other studies. Curious, since a major reason the test-cyp producers recommend every two weeks/injection is they don't want the patients either doing it themselves or having to go to the Dr. office more frequently.

You really think someone would be interested in doing a side-by-side comparison.

**Fetch** · 12-08-2011, 04:19 PM

Interesting. I've always been told to avoid injecting anywhere other than the muscle, as you risk abscesses that way. I actually have 2 knots in one delt that make it unusable as a site, as a result of this. (I thought, anyway.)

**bass** · 12-08-2011, 04:55 PM

Originally Posted by Fetch

Interesting. I've always been told to avoid injecting anywhere other than the muscle, as you risk abscesses that way. I actually have 2 knots in one delt that make it unusable as a site, as a result of this. (I thought, anyway.)

of course tissue damage will occur sooner or later, i think GD's method to alternate between SQ and IM is the way to do to avoid tissue scaring.

**JD250** · 12-08-2011, 05:04 PM

What kind of tissue damage can be done to fat cells?

**bass** · 12-08-2011, 05:06 PM

Originally Posted by JD250

What kind of tissue damage can be done to fat cells?

i don't knew of any, but i was referring to muscle tissue.

**Fetch** · 12-08-2011, 10:44 PM

Well, my endo specifically said that putting that oil in the fat causes a higher incidence of benign abscess. Not that I trust him with much, as he doesn't believe in HCG , doesn't think E2 has an effect on anything, and bumped me to 300mg/week without looking at bloodwork for the last 6 months.

**jamotech** · 12-08-2011, 10:52 PM

Could test suspension be injected subq?

**bass** · 12-09-2011, 02:05 AM

Originally Posted by Fetch

Well, my endo specifically said that putting that oil in the fat causes a higher incidence of benign abscess. Not that I trust him with much, as he doesn't believe in HCG, doesn't think E2 has an effect on anything, and bumped me to 300mg/week without looking at bloodwork for the last 6 months.

and you still go to him? LOL! are you taking AI on your own? at 300 mgs ew without AI e2 level will above the clouds by now! and 300 mgs test will be useless if you e2 is high.

**bass** · 12-09-2011, 02:10 AM

Originally Posted by jamotech

Could test suspension be injected subq?

not sure, but since we do hCG (which is water base) SQ, i don't see why that wouldn't work TS!

**Fetch** · 12-09-2011, 07:07 AM

Im not actually taking 300mg/week =)_ And yea, hes the only endo in my area that my insurance covers.

**bass** · 12-09-2011, 01:04 PM

Originally Posted by Fetch

Im not actually taking 300mg/week =)_ And yea, hes the only endo in my area that my insurance covers.

what is your complete protocol?

**Fetch** · 12-09-2011, 09:01 PM

I take 125mg/week Test C. My doctor does not believe in E2 control or HCG , and recently I've started developing sex drive/erection issues, so I'm going to be monitoring my own estro/test through bloodwork and adjusting armidex dose off that. A-Dex is research grade.

**bass** · 12-09-2011, 09:16 PM

Originally Posted by Fetch

I take 125mg/week Test C. My doctor does not believe in E2 control or HCG, and recently I've started developing sex drive/erection issues, so I'm going to be monitoring my own estro/test through bloodwork and adjusting armidex dose off that. A-Dex is research grade.

Fetch, i convert easily to e2, but since i started doing SQ injection and split my dose to twice a week i only take 1 mg adex, if done IM i have to take 1.5 mg AI. two benefits from switching to SQ, test is more stable, e2 conversion is minimal, and no long needle stabbing! let us know once you get your blood work results, i am curious to know where you're at with e2!

**jamotech** · 12-12-2011, 08:31 PM

Originally Posted by bass

not sure, but since we do hCG (which is water base) SQ, i don't see why that wouldn't work TS!

Since TS can create localized growth at the site of inject IM, would that still apply with subq injection?

**bass** · 12-13-2011, 12:28 AM

Originally Posted by jamotech

Since TS can create localized growth at the site of inject IM, would that still apply with subq injection?

i don't have enough knowledge to answer. i hope others can shed some light on this!

**jamotech** · 12-13-2011, 08:59 PM

Originally Posted by bass

i don't have enough knowledge to answer. i hope others can shed some light on this!

Thanks Bass, thought about using it to "fill in the gaps" that time and PT haven't seem to conquer, but every day IM injections are too much, but if it was subq it wouldnt be so bad.

**THINKBIG** · 12-25-2011, 04:49 PM

would rather have an abcess in fat then deep in muscle tissue. I'm using test from compounding pharmacy not joe's kitchen. I only do a 1/4 cc sub q and I dont even feel it.

**FONZY007** · 12-25-2011, 05:35 PM

Originally Posted by bass

Fetch, i convert easily to e2, but since i started doing SQ injection and split my dose to twice a week i only take 1 mg adex, if done IM i have to take 1.5 mg AI. two benefits from switching to SQ, test is more stable, e2 conversion is minimal, and no long needle stabbing! let us know once you get your blood work results, i am curious to know where you're at with e2!

How long does it take to load a slin pin, my 25 gauge takes forever already. Is there a method to help it faster

**JD250** · 12-25-2011, 06:01 PM

Originally Posted by FONZY007

How long does it take to load a slin pin, my 25 gauge takes forever already. Is there a method to help it faster

Forever! Well at least 10 min. from start to finish

**ecdysone** · 12-25-2011, 07:07 PM

Originally Posted by FONZY007

How long does it take to load a slin pin, my 25 gauge takes forever already. Is there a method to help it faster

Yeah, you just back-load using a 23G syringe. If you're really pressed for time or want to save money, you can pre-fill any number of slin pins.

Otherwise, warming everything up with a hair dryer helps, too.

**jamotech** · 12-25-2011, 10:02 PM

I wouldnt backload or prefill for the reason of sterility.

**bass** · 12-26-2011, 12:19 AM

Originally Posted by jamotech

I wouldnt backload or prefill for the reason of sterility.

exactly!

**bass** · 12-26-2011, 12:23 AM

Originally Posted by FONZY007

How long does it take to load a slin pin, my 25 gauge takes forever already. Is there a method to help it faster

i don't know how JD does it but for me it takes about 3 minutes to draw 60 mgs, and about 10-15 seconds to inject. i use 28 g. x 1/2 slin pin. BTW, i do warm up the vial a little with the hair dryer as well teh syringe before i draw. summer time i don't pre-heat.

**FONZY007** · 12-26-2011, 01:49 AM

Originally Posted by bass

i don't know how JD does it but for me it takes about 3 minutes to draw 60 mgs, and about 10-15 seconds to inject. i use 28 g. x 1/2 slin pin. BTW, i do warm up the vial a little with the hair dryer as well teh syringe before i draw. summer time i don't pre-heat.

Thanks bass, I inject 1/4cc twice a week using a 25 gauge. I actually draw up probably 60-70mg but of course you leave a little in the syringe after your done injecting so I'm assuming I'm getting closer to 50mgs twice a week.

Ima try this method though, I prefill my 25 gauge for 3 weeks at a time, a pharmacist told me it should stay sterile for about 21 days... hope he is right, but as of yet no problems

**lovbyts** · 12-26-2011, 03:10 AM

I have done Sub Q a couple of time. 1st time I did my normal almost 1cc and it is the first time I was sore/tender and had a lump for a good week. I did it again but only 1/2 cc and had no problem so I suspect you just have to keep the amount down.

**ecdysone** · 12-26-2011, 12:52 PM

Originally Posted by jamotech

I wouldnt backload or prefill for the reason of sterility.

There is no sterility issue: you use a new 23+G syringe, carefully pull the plunger out of the slin pin with one hand while filling it with the other. Then you re-insert the plunger and remove the air.

The plunger tip only contacts sterile surfaces and seals off the inner syringe body from outside contamination.

There are vast numbers of guys doing it this way with absolutely no issues.

Actually, if you're really worried about sterility, going into the same bottle 2 or 3 dozen times can't be a good scenario for maintaining sterility.

**jamotech** · 12-28-2011, 09:11 PM

who says theres no sterility issue, you? Well, I say there is... doesn't matter how many do it without issue.

Back filling a syringe isnt that complicated.

Dont understand how the number of times you draw would affect a sealed container, the needle is sterile, the top is sterile after alcohol swab?

**spywizard** · 12-28-2011, 10:18 PM

I don't know how you guys do the sub c injections (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subcutaneous_injection).. i did with 50iu of volumn and had a lump for 18 days...

any idea on how to avoid this??

**moparmuscle** · 12-28-2011, 10:30 PM

Backloading is an added step and an added step increases the odds of an issue with sterility. Anyone doing this should be extra careful with all the steps (washing hands, swabbing vial, swabbing skin and of course not breathing on the pin etc lol). I have been using backloaded 1/2" slin pins to injected trt inter muscle for a year without issues.

Originally Posted by jamotech

who says theres no sterility issue, you? Well, I say there is... doesn't matter how many do it without issue.

Back filling a syringe isnt that complicated.

Dont understand how the number of times you draw would affect a sealed container, the needle is sterile, the top is sterile after alcohol swab?

**bass** · 12-28-2011, 10:56 PM

Originally Posted by spywizard

I don't know how you guys do the sub c injections (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subcutaneous_injection).. i did with 50iu of volumn and had a lump for 18 days...

any idea on how to avoid this??

massage for about a minute or so after injection! i find getting less lumps when i inject above and to the right or left of the belly button.