Women using Test cream

[JohnnyVegas]

I did a search, but couldn't find what I was looking for.

My wife just started a cream that has 15mg progesterone, 10mg testosterone and 15mg DHEA per gram. She takes one gram per day.

I assume absorption isn't 100%, because that would be 70mg/wk testosterone which I know would be high for a female.

Can someone give me a little feedback so I can keep her from worrying about growing a beard?

[JD250]

I'm may be off base here, I don't use creams but I was reading on a buddies A-gel that absorption was like 10% or some such......at that rate she would only be getting 7mg a week at best......I could be wrong on the 10% but I do know that absorption was way less than I would've thought it to be. Tell her not to worry about the beard, it's her new penis that she should be concerned about. Sorry bro, I had to say it.

[JohnnyVegas]

^^^ Yeah, I have been cracking penis jokes too. She doesn't like them any more than my testicle jokes.

[bullshark99]

Johnny, u may want to lay off the penis jokes, you'll give her a complex and she may stop using it before any benefits are acheived. Keep us all posted pls on how this works? Many of us here have womaen that need a litle "nudge"

[kelkel]

Can someone nudge mine out the door......

[PPC]

Your wife's dose is toward the high end but not necessarily too high. According to Dr Uzzi Reiss in his book, 'The Natural Superwoman,"

page 196. "I recommend that women limit their daily testosterone dose to a maximum of one gram twice a day."

The cream that he has compounded for women delivers 6mg in one gram. He recommends women use 1/2 a gram once to twice a day to start out, then use another 1/2 to 1 gram if needed. So what he's saying is don't go over 12 mg total. Your wife is at 10 already. Interesting, but not alarming.

It would be highly unlikely for her clit to enlarge or her voice to get deeper before a host of other side effects turned up. Acne will be one of the first signs of too high a dose. A more aggressive personality - hypersexuality - possibly but not always.

Blood work will be important. If she remains below 100 Total T, I doubt she'll be growing any male body parts LOL. Each woman is so unique in what level of T she feels optimized at. Shooting for 60-90 is probably ideal and then closely monitoring symptoms will be key.

Let us know how she goes. It takes a couple of months on T atleast to notice changes (from my female perspective).

[JD250]

PPC, i'm guessing you are on T, is it difficult for women to keep the level steady or does it reach a point where you can find your optimum dose eventually and just stick with it for a long while.

[SlimmerMe]

Hi...when I was on test cream last year at 6mgs daily along with 35mgs of dhea, (and E2/E3...plus the hgh)
I was told I got aggressive plus I did get teenage acne. HORRIBLE ACNE.

[ecdysone]

JV - you know one thing about the creams/gels: you can do dosage adjustments almost immediately since the half-life is <1 day. After 5-7 days BW could be done which is before she'll notice any adverse effects.

[JohnnyVegas]

Can someone nudge mine out the door......

I always thought keeping them was hard and losing them was easy.

Your wife's dose is toward the high end but not necessarily too high. According to Dr Uzzi Reiss in his book, 'The Natural Superwoman,"

page 196. "I recommend that women limit their daily testosterone dose to a maximum of one gram twice a day."

The cream that he has compounded for women delivers 6mg in one gram. He recommends women use 1/2 a gram once to twice a day to start out, then use another 1/2 to 1 gram if needed. So what he's saying is don't go over 12 mg total. Your wife is at 10 already. Interesting, but not alarming.

It would be highly unlikely for her clit to enlarge or her voice to get deeper before a host of other side effects turned up. Acne will be one of the first signs of too high a dose. A more aggressive personality - hypersexuality - possibly but not always.

Blood work will be important. If she remains below 100 Total T, I doubt she'll be growing any male body parts LOL. Each woman is so unique in what level of T she feels optimized at. Shooting for 60-90 is probably ideal and then closely monitoring symptoms will be key.

Let us know how she goes. It takes a couple of months on T atleast to notice changes (from my female perspective).

Awesome info. The doctor said he was shooting for Test levels around 125 (I think). We will be on the lookout for oily skin and facial hair. She is depending on me to help gauge her reaction/feelings/sides since I have been through this...but we know women are more complicated. We will see how it goes and plan on getting blood work done again in a couple of months so we have real data to work with.

Hi...when I was on test cream last year at 6mgs daily along with 35mgs of dhea, (and E2/E3...plus the hgh)
I was told I got aggressive plus I did get teenage acne. HORRIBLE ACNE.

She is dreading acne and I am not sure we would notice an increase in aggressiveness as she is running a business and going to school full time for an MBA. She is already strung out and edgy. Done in two months though.

JV - you know one thing about the creams/gels: you can do dosage adjustments almost immediately since the half-life is <1 day. After 5-7 days BW could be done which is before she'll notice any adverse effects.

I have read about a few guys having a fast reaction because of the short half life. PPC said it can take a while for changes in women. I wonder if it is because it isn't the primary hormone for them and their body has to adjust to all the hormone levels changing ratios? I might be over thinking this - I don't understand the voodoo of women's hormones.

[HRTstudent]

you can shave the beard... I'd be more worried about downstairs!

[ecdysone]

I don't understand the voodoo of women's hormones.

lol

I believe test is test when it comes to metabolism and amount absorbed. Now, long term effect and eventual feedback loops, yeah PPC is correct. Was thinking more that you don't want to overshoot her test levels so an early dosage adjustment would be good with the idea that the final level and whatever effect it causes will be something you will need to tweak.

[PPC]

PPC, i'm guessing you are on T, is it difficult for women to keep the level steady or does it reach a point where you can find your optimum dose eventually and just stick with it for a long while.

I don’t think it is too hard for a female to find an optimal T dosage, feel good and settle there. In my case, finding that state where I received the benefits from T without a lot of side effects wasn’t too hard, a little trial and error but I got it figured out.

Past tense. To answer your question; currently I am not using T. But neither am I at the end of my T journey… plan to bring it back in the near future. The reasons for my stopping make a twisty tale, so I’ll share and try to be brief (but brevity is not my strong suit).

I started out on shots, not long after my husband-started T shots, close to three years or so ago. Our AA Doc was onboard with me using 10mg of T cyp per week because even though I am premenopausal, my total T levels were only in the mid twenties with low free T. I chose shots because that was the least expensive way for me to do it.

I didn’t feel anything much for the fist couple of months. I’d already settled on a 10mg daily dose of DHEA close to a year before this time. I’d already figured out that anything above that gave me acne. Starting at 10 mg of T for a couple of months didn’t give me any acne and I didn’t feel too much else at this point.. I upped the dose to 12 mg per week, divided into 2 mall shots per week to see if that would make a difference. Someone correct me if I’m wrong, but unlike creams, shots allow the body to absorb at least 70 percent of the hormone, creams are more like 10 percent absorption. So that means I was absorbing close to 9-10 mg of T per week maybe.

Wooah! After 3 to 4 weeks at this dose – acne, along with strange aggressive personality traits. I started snapping at everybody. But, for the first time in my life, I looked forward to my workouts rather than just doing them because I knew I should. I noticed muscle gain, I could get down and easily push out thirty to forty men’s style pushups. Before that about fifteen was my limit. I don’t have a high T body type so this was all new for me. My libido skyrocketed, I mean crazy. I always had a positive attitude toward sex, needed it emotionally but this strong physical urge was new. I did not have male type clit growth, but I remember getting more male type sexual responses to sexual thoughts and touch, a literal filling of blood in my female genitalia, can only describe it as some sort of female erection. Hope not too much info but strange to say the least. That may be the norm for some women but I had never had that before, though I always had more typical female arousal responses.

After I got called the B word by various friends and members of my family, I lowered my dose, back to 10 mg. Acne diminished but not all the way. Down I went to 8mg of T. No aggression at that dose, no acne, still good workouts. Libido still sky high. I believe this was still at the high end of my sweet spot but I felt good. I tested toward the top of the range of T. Probably still high for my body type.

The problem was my husband had to stop his shots for a while. He was having issues with dialing in his E and his red blood cell count was too high. So there I was dangling with a raging sex drive and he completely lost his. He didn’t want to go back on shots since he was having a lot of face flushing. This time was horrible for us. I took my dose down even further to 6 mg but started to feel the whole idea was ridiculous since these shots were now so tiny. I stopped injecting altogether after a few more months because I didn’t want to do anything stupid with this crazy libido that constantly pestered me, even on the lowered dose of T I’m sure it would have been real fun if my husband was in a similar sexual state, but it only made me miserable.

So currently, I feel just like my pre T days. I do my workouts to maintain my figure but pretty much dread them, I have an emotional drive for frequent sex and really enjoy it but no super primal, physical urge. My husband has been using Androgel for the better part of a year now. On the gel he has a much higher libido than shots gave him and more of a physical drive for sex than I do but it works because I receive the emotional benefits and we have found a good balance. I feel we are at a point where there won’t be negative repercussions in our relationship if I start to add in T again…slowly and carefully this time. Takes time for changes to show up in my case. I would rather use a cream or a troche so I can have more control over dosing next time around…pulling back if need be.

BTW, my Mom has used T cream as a part of her HRT for a few years now. She sits around 90 Total T at almost 71 years old thanks to her cream.. She feels fantastic and no adverse side effects at this level. But she is alpha personality type and more of a natural T body. Her cream delivers 4mg of T per gram. She uses just one gram daily.

Hope this helps.

[PPC]

Hi...when I was on test cream last year at 6mgs daily along with 35mgs of dhea, (and E2/E3...plus the hgh)
I was told I got aggressive plus I did get teenage acne. HORRIBLE ACNE.

Your Doc was so heavy handed with the DHEA. That combined with the T was probably the perfect storm for teenage type acne. Maybe the HGH played some role too?

[NEMESIS RR]

From what I have seen in a close friend

Test Cyp at 2mg 2X a week = hardly if any side effects, minor clitoral enlargement and occasional small pimple. Minor sense of well being, small jump in libido, more energy.

Test Cyp at 6mg 2x a week = Temper problems, minor acne on face, big jump in clitoral enlargement, hair growth. Big jump in energy, libido, and strength in the gym. Had to be discontinued due to temper problems and irratibility.

Test Cyp at 4mg 2x a week = Occasional minor pimple, Minor body hair (nothing Nair can't take care of). No temper problems but confidence to face challenges, good libido, great strength and energy. Biggest benifit is clarity of mind. Over a year at this dose and big change in body composition. Blood work came back great.

More is not always better. Everyone has to find the dose that is right for them.

[JohnnyVegas]

From what I have seen in a close friend

Test Cyp at 2mg 2X a week = hardly if any side effects, minor clitoral enlargement and occasional small pimple. Minor sense of well being, small jump in libido, more energy.

Test Cyp at 6mg 2x a week = Temper problems, minor acne on face, big jump in clitoral enlargement, hair growth. Big jump in energy, libido, and strength in the gym. Had to be discontinued due to temper problems and irratibility.

Test Cyp at 4mg 2x a week = Occasional minor pimple, Minor body hair (nothing Nair can't take care of). No temper problems but confidence to face challenges, good libido, great strength and energy. Biggest benifit is clarity of mind. Over a year at this dose and big change in body composition. Blood work came back great.

More is not always better. Everyone has to find the dose that is right for them.

Are you sure that isn't one tenth what you mean? In other words, it seems like those sides might be for 20, 40 and 60mg twice a week rather than 2, 4, and 6mg twice a week.

Just double checking so incorrect info doesn't remain on the forum for future readers.

[ecdysone]

Are you sure that isn't one tenth what you mean?

JV - those are injectables.

[PPC]

From what I have seen in a close friend

Test Cyp at 2mg 2X a week = hardly if any side effects, minor clitoral enlargement and occasional small pimple. Minor sense of well being, small jump in libido, more energy.

Test Cyp at 6mg 2x a week = Temper problems, minor acne on face, big jump in clitoral enlargement, hair growth. Big jump in energy, libido, and strength in the gym. Had to be discontinued due to temper problems and irratibility.

Test Cyp at 4mg 2x a week = Occasional minor pimple, Minor body hair (nothing Nair can't take care of). No temper problems but confidence to face challenges, good libido, great strength and energy. Biggest benifit is clarity of mind. Over a year at this dose and big change in body composition. Blood work came back great.

More is not always better. Everyone has to find the dose that is right for them.

Thanks for posting this. There is very little anecdotal information on responses of females to injected T cyp at BHRT doses. Interesting your friend had very similar responses to me at those doses. At 12 mg per week in two divided doses, I experienced pretty much all you mentioned except for the clit growth, but did not remain that high long enough to see such change. I forgot to mention I did get new hair growth on my previously hairless upper inner thighs. 8mg per week was my sweet spot also.

Thanks again. Tell your friend to chime in if possible. Honestly, we need more of this.

[Far from massive]

PPC agreed completely on the absorption of creams vs injectables.

I had a couple who competed that were friends ( he and her moved and I have lost touch) both he and his wife competed and she used lots of test in the 90s , since she was competing despite sides she continued on a high dose despite the sides. She suffered all the sides, deep voice, acne, masculine features, etc. for her the clitoral enlargement came over time and now after being off for ten years this is also the only thing that remained, that is her voice, viralzation, etc. has returned to normal but her clitoris is large and labia minor is still distended and pronounced.

From what I know of this I also agree that as long as you are careful to note any other sides of a behavioral and emotional nature and keep them under control you will be unlikely to experience the other sides like viralization.

[NEMESIS RR]

PPC I posted this because a few years back I couldn't find anything as well. The female population that goes down this road is very small. The population that stays on to find the sweet is even smaller.

[PPC]

PPC I posted this because a few years back I couldn't find anything as well. The female population that goes down this road is very small. The population that stays on to find the sweet is even smaller.

Agreed. And thanks.

[JohnnyVegas]

JV - those are injectables.

Thanks for answering. I wasn't disagreeing (and knew it was Cyp), just making sure it was right because I almost discounted it as wrong (out of ignorance). I thought it was better to simply ask if it was right rather than allow myself to have a knee jerk reaction to the info.

I am surprised 12mg/wk has such a huge effect.

EDIT: I just noticed that I asked NEMESSIS RR and it was ecdysone that answered...so can I get additional consensus on the 4mg, 8mg and 12mg effects above?

[JohnnyVegas]

UPDATE: my wife has been on the cream for a week now and says she doesn't feel different. We know it might be hard for her to notice subtle changes when our lives are so hectic but we are both surprised there wasn't more of a "kick" since it seemed like the doses were significant.

More info to come.

[NEMESIS RR]

Are you sure that isn't one tenth what you mean? In other words, it seems like those sides might be for 20, 40 and 60mg twice a week rather than 2, 4, and 6mg twice a week.

Just double checking so incorrect info doesn't remain on the forum for future readers.

No it was 2mg two times a week for a total of 4mg a week and so on. At 6mg twice a week (12mg total) temper became an issue at times. Everyone is different and we are talking about longevity and wellness NOT bodybuilding.

BUT she is in a lot better shape than a lot of women 20 years younger. She has a flat stomach, muscular and defined arms, chest, and back along with hard legs. This is not just the supplementing. This is also cardio and weight workouts, no junk food, low carbs, and calm life style. And most important she feels great and her bloodwork comes back perfect.

[PPC]

Johnny Vegas, one week is too early to see changes in my opinion. It took atleast a month for me. It took my Mother 8 months to feel any different on test cream, but she had been post meno for many years so cell saturation had to re-occur and then new brain pathways forged I believe.

I doubt it will take that long for your wife, but give it several weeks. Just because test cream may take her blood levels up quickly, it doesn't mean the rest of her body will respond as quickly.

[JohnnyVegas]

^^^ Thanks for the confirmation! I never knew how low the "maintenance" dose would be for women. It is interesting when compared to the much higher dose for the creams.

[JohnnyVegas]

Johnny Vegas, one week is too early to see changes in my opinion. It took atleast a month for me. It took my Mother 8 months to feel any different on test cream, but she had been post meno for many years so cell saturation had to reoccur and then new brain pathways forged I believe.

I doubt it will take that long for your wife, but give it several weeks. Just because test cream may take her blood levels up quickly, it doesn't mean the rest of her body will respond as fast.

Yeah, I was just giving an update. I didn't want to just disappear for six weeks. :-)

I know men seem to feel it faster on the creams. Maybe because the dose is higher? Or maybe just because we are more simple. Heh.

[ecdysone]

JV- here's a cool booklet I came across some time ago (just remembered it today):

[www.] lawleybasecamp.com/.../Testosterone_Women_Booklet.pdf

(can't get this url to post properly, just cut & paste to use www. in front of the name, i.e. no http://)

[keep fightin]

great thread! adding 5mg 2xew of T to my wife's nhrt SQ was incredible! she has always enjoyed sex but after 2 weeks she was arguably physically responding like a twenty something. no acne or personality changes for the worse, just positive outlook, harder muscle and just 8 weeks in. both in our mid 50's and on pretty robust supps. could be placebo but she noticed a difference within 10 days, 3 sq shots.

[SlimmerMe]

Might have to add this thread to my list......

[ecdysone]

Another interesting resource, with quite a different perspective on women's testosterone :

check out: (SuperH*manRadio) SHR # 925 - "Demystifying Testosterone In Women"

(don't know if we can post references to that other site, so might have to edit it out)

[JohnnyVegas]

Another interesting resource, with quite a different perspective on women's testosterone :

check out: (SuperH*manRadio) SHR # 925 - "Demystifying Testosterone In Women"

(don't know if we can post references to that other site, so might have to edit it out)

I did a Google search...worked great. Easy to find. Listening now.

[doc w]

Great link for radio show, I've listened to about four radio shows in the last 3 days, I'm looking for any opinions regarding the little misses. She Has hypoganitropic hypogonasiism, we struggled to have children but were successful with infertility treatment. Her biggest issue is constant fatigue since I have known her. Sex drive is ok, but could always be better. After reading this thread I has her test level checked and it was less than 3 ( 20-70 normal range). Her ob/gyn is unwilling to prescribe. Looking for any opinions on the matter.

[keep fightin]

hey doc, I'm not recommending this tactic, merely stating our experience. My wife is on a pretty dialed in nhrt program except for T, until we buckle down and find another doc I have been siphoning 8-10 mg of T from my supply and she pins 2xew SQ with a 31 gauge. As I mentioned above, the outward results were dramatic.

[doc w]

hey doc, I'm not recommending this tactic, merely stating our experience. My wife is on a pretty dialed in nhrt program except for T, until we buckle down and find another doc I have been siphoning 8-10 mg of T from my supply and she pins 2xew SQ with a 31 gauge. As I mentioned above, the outward results were dramatic.

How long till u noticed any diffs in energy, body comp and libido.

[NEMESIS RR]

How long till u noticed any diffs in energy, body comp and libido.

how old is your wife? Are you done having children? Is there a possibility of her becoming pregnant?

With hypogonasiism I would definitely try at a very low dose. When making any adjustment it is better to make very minor ones and to give it time. Dont just raise the dose just because effects are not seen quickly. Use a insulin needle as accurate measurements are a must. You can always just stop.

The change CAN be seen in a few days. You have to be very observant.

[doc w]

She just hit 40. We further plans for children and it would probably take an act of congress to get us there. She has moderate osteoporosis with t scores around negative 2. I'm hoping this will give her more energy, libido and cure her osteoporosis. If I can't find a good doc in the area I am planning on managing it myself. Sounds like women can be tricky though, balancing three different hormones that are constantly changing.

[NEMESIS RR]

We started with making sure vitamins, diet, and supplements were all in order. Then came one pump of over the counter progesterone cream. When menstruating the cream is stopped. That was an improvement but not quite there. Keep in mind 2 to 3 months passed to make sure everything was stanilized. Then came the test. Go very low and slow.

Keep in mind there will be side effects. The question is are the side effects small enough to live with and quality of life worth it.

On th pregnancy issue, I know a lady that had not menstruated in 2 years. Within 2 months of starting the progesterone cream she started menstruating again.

[keep fightin]

^^^ all good stuff! Doc, libido after two pins she swore she felt jump started,as our female gang as stated its more of of a physical response than an increase in emotional affection leading to wanting more sex [ I'm not complaining!] Of course Nemesis is right on about monitoring, the gals are trickier to dial in, apparently the pre menopausal hormonal cascade is a bit more complicated. Your wife is lucky to have you involved, I bet you two and a good bw schedule can get it done. body comp at eight weeks and shes getting a rounder butt! this is good news for her.. energy, up! plus wanting to jump me most mornings.. not see'n a downside bro!

[doc w]

After much soul searching and researching my wife decided to listen to my advice and received her first sq injection of sq test 10 mg wednesday night. I have not noticed any differences in the last 3 days except she is in pms land/ monthly visitor right now and always gets horrible migraines, but has not had any yet. She does not want biweekly injections although I think that would give more stable levels and easier control. I will bw in three weeks since we will be on vacation near a lab. Will keep abreast of progress. Hopefully this has been a cause of many of her problems since it was so low