Test Cyp and Anastrozole. Will i feel anything first day/week?

[TRTony]

i know it takes a few weeks to kick in. but will i feel or notice ANYTHING during first week of TRT?

[JohnnyVegas]

I didn't.

[redhawk01]

I didn't either. Not until about week 4 for me. 50mg twice a week. Test cyp

[marcus300]

Depends how low your test is to be honest. I know afew who have felt amazing after a few days after their first injection. Normally it will take s few wks before you feel the full benefit if your hrt.

[dec11]

we dont even get a sniffle of AI's in the UK, and TBH i really dont think they're necessary at proper TRT doses.

What is the big diff between here and the US? does it simply boil down to private clinics promoting higher doses and AI's/hcg to bump profits?

[kelkel]

No doubt clinics (some) will sell you anything as it's all about money. But, the overwhelming majority of TRT-ers still need some type of AI. The guys who don't are very fortunate. Only BW via a sensitive assay will tell the tale!

[dec11]

No doubt clinics (some) will sell you anything as it's all about money. But, the overwhelming majority of TRT-ers still need some type of AI. The guys who don't are very fortunate. Only BW via a sensitive assay will tell the tale!

i would be prone to gyno symptoms on a modest cycle but when i was self prescribing 250mg trt pw i didnt have any symptoms at all and i sure as hell def wont on my monitored 10wk interval nebido trt, this why i dont understand the need for AI's in the US protocols.

[SEOINAGE]

i know it takes a few weeks to kick in. but will i feel or notice ANYTHING during first week of TRT?

I noticed a few differences but by the 5th and 6th day I hit rock bottom, and only felt good because I had my own test plus the first shot in me. after that i felt pretty lousy until I upped my dose, so first 3 and a half weeks were hell.

i would be prone to gyno symptoms on a modest cycle but when i was self prescribing 250mg trt pw i didnt have any symptoms at all and i sure as hell def wont on my monitored 10wk interval nebido trt, this why i dont understand the need for AI's in the US protocols.

My E2 is top end of range on 200 mg a week, which really isn't a problem just extra water retention. I haven't gotten results back yet on 1 mg a week of anastrozole. but I haven't taken any ai this week because I think it was giving me headaches, going off for a month to see if I feel better.

[jasondd1]

I felt my compounded test on the 2nd day.

[dec11]

I noticed a few differences but by the 5th and 6th day I hit rock bottom, and only felt good because I had my own test plus the first shot in me. after that i felt pretty lousy until I upped my dose, so first 3 and a half weeks were hell.



My E2 is top end of range on 200 mg a week, which really isn't a problem just extra water retention. I haven't gotten results back yet on 1 mg a week of anastrozole. but I haven't taken any ai this week because I think it was giving me headaches, going off for a month to see if I feel better.

if we can get by on say 100mg pw, im not sure what nebido comes out at pw but it must be even lower than 100mg pw, then why does a diff country prescribe so much more.


i find it hard to understand, human physiology doesnt differ between Americans and Europeans.

[SEOINAGE]

if we can get by on say 100mg pw, im not sure what nebido comes out at pw but it must be even lower than 100mg pw, then why does a diff country prescribe so much more.


i find it hard to understand, human physiology doesnt differ between Americans and Europeans.

My total test on 100 mg a week was 200, on 200 mg it's 900. I can't get by on 100 mg, I was higher than that without trt.

Point is some people are different, I'm not the only one.

[Brazensol]

I have changed from twice weekly (60 mgs. per injection) to every other day (34 mgs per injection) and so far I have noticed a drop in libido and overall energy levels. Won't get blood work until mid month but I am thinking my E2 levels are increasing although conventional wisdom says small doses more frequently should = less estrogen. I will stay with this until blood work is drawn and see what happens.

I have also stopped drinking alcohol except for weekends so I wonder if that has anything to do with it (libido decreasing)???

[Brazensol]

My total test on 100 mg a week was 200, on 200 mg it's 900. I can't get by on 100 mg, I was higher than that without trt.

Point is some people are different, I'm not the only one.

At 120 mgs. I am in the 60% range and think I need to be higher. Still having many of the same symptoms as before trt though to a lesser extent. Gonna try 150 after I get my next labs drawn.

[Vettester]

Dec, you're actually tapping on some truth with this ...

There are indeed clinics in our country that prevail by prescribing way more than what's necessary, but in many cases that's where they're yielding the highest profits. And unfortunately, we see it all the time here, where guys have the 'perception' that more is better.

For the long-haul, more just means more out of balance downstream with E2, and it just complicates of myriad of other variables involving one's health. Seems that a lot of guys don't want to hear that a 'normal' protocol can be sustained anywhere from 60mg to 120mg per week. Additionally, breaking it up to at least 2x per week is proven to reduce the spikes that create the higher E2 conversion; meaning very little AI (if any) will be needed once everything gets dialed in.

[dec11]

My total test on 100 mg a week was 200, on 200 mg it's 900. I can't get by on 100 mg, I was higher than that without trt.

Point is some people are different, I'm not the only one.

over here they tend to just tell us 'there you go, good luck' if you work out within range then thats it, they dont hold discussions on getting you to feel optimal. on my first appoint i mentioned estro levels, he just cut me off quick smart with 'we dont particularly have concerns about estro levels'.

on a side note does anyone know the ave. weekly delivery of a nebido shot over 10wks?

[dec11]

Dec, you're actually tapping on some truth with this ...

There are indeed clinics in our country that prevail by prescribing way more than what's necessary, but in many cases that's where they're yielding the highest profits. And unfortunately, we see it all the time here, where guys have the 'perception' that more is better.

For the long-haul, more just means more out of balance downstream with E2, and it just complicates of myriad of other variables involving one's health. Seems that a lot of guys don't want to hear that a 'normal' protocol can be sustained anywhere from 60mg to 120mg per week. Additionally, breaking it up to at least 2x per week is proven to reduce the spikes that create the higher E2 conversion; meaning very little AI (if any) will be needed once everything gets dialed in.

yeah, nail on the head, that's exactly what i mean. obviously the higher the test is then the more likely that other hormones are going to be out of whack.

i think thats why other countries are more conservative, just enough to replicate normal levels and not upset the apple cart so to speak. i mean, ive heard of US clinics prescribing var and deca as part of TRT!! surely that cant be rightful clinical practice!

[SEOINAGE]

over here they tend to just tell us 'there you go, good luck' if you work out within range then thats it, they dont hold discussions on getting you to feel optimal. on my first appoint i mentioned estro levels, he just cut me off quick smart with 'we dont particularly have concerns about estro levels'.

on a side note does anyone know the ave. weekly delivery of a nebido shot over 10wks?

That sounds like my first doctor, when he saw my 200 levels he bumped me up to 120 mgs a week. And the estrogen thing he said he gives men massive amounts of estrogen so that they can become a women and they are healthy so i don't need to be concerned about estrogen, cool huh?

[Vettester]

At 120 mgs. I am in the 60% range and think I need to be higher. Still having many of the same symptoms as before trt though to a lesser extent. Gonna try 150 after I get my next labs drawn.

But this is part of the problem ... Everyone tends to put all of their emphasis on this one hormone, as if it's the "be all, end all" to health. Granted, it's important, but if you don't have the rest of your house in order, it's just going to be long journey. All major areas should be addressed (Thyroid Panels, E2, SHBG, Free/Bio, DHEA, Preg, Cortisol, D3, B12, Lipids, CBC's, Metabolic, and probably many others that I'm missing ...)

If you're at "60% range", what does that mean? I'll throw you a little curve ball of a question ... If my test serum is 600ng/dl, but yours is 750ng/dl, does that mean that you have more testosterone than me? Sincerely, I'm not trying to be a smart ass or anything, but I'm just curious what your initial read on something like this is?

[dec11]

although to be fair i did complain to my doc that i felt things go downhill at around mid wk9 and she emailed the endo who agreed on a shorter interval of 10wks instead of 12wks, even though i was read reading within range at 11.4 on a scale of 10-35 at end wk12.

[dec11]

But this is part of the problem ... Everyone tends to put all of their emphasis on this one hormone, as if it's the "be all, end all" to health. Granted, it's important, but if you don't have the rest of your house in order, it's just going to be long journey. All major areas should be addressed (Thyroid Panels, E2, SHBG, Free/Bio, DHEA, Preg, Cortisol, D3, B12, Lipids, CBC's, Metabolic, and probably many others that I'm missing ...)

If you're at "60% range", what does that mean? I'll throw you a little curve ball of a question ... If my test serum is 600ng/dl, but yours is 750ng/dl, does that mean that you have more testosterone than me? Sincerely, I'm not trying to be a smart ass or anything, but I'm just curious what your initial read on something like this is?

as well as this, before we all had definite testosterone probs, where we all sex machines that could knock it out 7 days a week?!

i think there is a big tendency to blame our trt just because we dont feel 'in the mood' 24/7 like we did when we were 18.

[Vettester]

yeah, nail on the head, that's exactly what i mean. obviously the higher the test is then the more likely that other hormones are going to be out of whack.

i think thats why other countries are more conservative, just enough to replicate normal levels and not upset the apple cart so to speak. i mean, ive heard of US clinics prescribing var and deca as part of TRT!! surely that cant be rightful clinical practice!

Oh, absolutely!! Not only can I get both of those compounds at my clinic, I can also get Winstrol . My clinic used to offer the Winstrol and Anavar both in liquid form, but that's no longer the case.

[Vettester]

as well as this, before we all had definite testosterone probs, where we all sex machines that could knock it out 7 days a week?!

i think there is a big tendency to blame our trt just because we dont feel 'in the mood' 24/7 like we did when we were 18.

Exactly!! At 45, I've come to accept my mortality that I can't go 24/7 like when I was 18. With TRT, I've accepted 18 hours for 6 days, allowing 1 day to rest and ride my Vette or bike!

[dec11]

Exactly!! At 45, I've come to accept my mortality that I can't go 24/7 like when I was 18. With TRT, I've accepted 18 hours for 6 days, allowing 1 day to rest and ride my Vette or bike!

haha, true, im more interested in trying to kill myself on my 'blade these days, everytime i get on its 'right you bastard, lets be having you'

[Vettester]

And to just to touch on something else, dec, you mentioned Nebido. Sadly, I couldn't tell you anything about the Nebido protocols (accept what I have read), simply because it is not approved in the US. Now figure that one out! I can get Deca , Winstrol , Anavar , more test than a pasture of bulls, but our Government is worried about the potential health risks of medicating with Nebido Pffft

[Brazensol]

But this is part of the problem ... Everyone tends to put all of their emphasis on this one hormone, as if it's the "be all, end all" to health. Granted, it's important, but if you don't have the rest of your house in order, it's just going to be long journey. All major areas should be addressed (Thyroid Panels, E2, SHBG, Free/Bio, DHEA, Preg, Cortisol, D3, B12, Lipids, CBC's, Metabolic, and probably many others that I'm missing ...)

If you're at "60% range", what does that mean? I'll throw you a little curve ball of a question ... If my test serum is 600ng/dl, but yours is 750ng/dl, does that mean that you have more testosterone than me? Sincerely, I'm not trying to be a smart ass or anything, but I'm just curious what your initial read on something like this is?

No curveball or smartass response implied! Definately not putting all my eggs in one basket since I am also hypothyroid. Sixty percent range means exactly that...60% on the range scale for testosterone . For some guys that is a great place to be. For me, maybe not. I do feel better than before I started trt but I think there is (lots of) room for improvement to be sure. Doesn't matter to me if I have more or less testosterone than you. What matters is feeling better. Getting all the labs needed is a struggle with the system I live with (retired military). Looks like I will have to spend some of my own green to get the labs I need (lesson to those who think obamacare will work). At this point I am pretty sure my adrenals are at the very least sluggish and will ask doc for 24 hour cortisol test.

[Vettester]

No curveball or smartass response implied! Definately not putting all my eggs in one basket since I am also hypothyroid. Sixty percent range means exactly that...60% on the range scale for testosterone. For some guys that is a great place to be. For me, maybe not. I do feel better than before I started trt but I think there is (lots of) room for improvement to be sure. Doesn't matter to me if I have more or less testosterone than you. What matters is feeling better. Getting all the labs needed is a struggle with the system I live with (retired military). Looks like I will have to spend some of my own green to get the labs I need (lesson to those who think obamacare will work). At this point I am pretty sure my adrenals are at the very least sluggish and will ask doc for 24 hour cortisol test.

Is that based on the reference range of total serum? Maybe like a 280ng/dl to 1000ng/dl range or something like it?

My whole point of the "curve ball" was just to see if you were looking at the free and bio part of the testosterone . I'm one of those guys who has really low SHBG, so my free test is usually around 3.3%, or somewhere close thereof. A lot of mid range guys will be in the 2.0% to 2.5% range, or even lower. So, essentially, what matters is the actual free & bio test in the system, and not so much emphasis on the serum. At 600 ng/dl, I am usually at the top of the range where some guys are equally at with 900 ng/dl. Obviously if I pushed mine to 900 ng/dl by upping my dose, I would be definitely more vulnerable to a lot of the negative sides.

[Brazensol]

As of last labs my shbg and e2 were "textbook" and free test was low. I am hoping bringing up total test. will increase free test. without unduly affecting shbg or e2. Last total test lab was 6.04 (2.1 - 8.0 ng/mL), so a little higher than 60%. Total free was 40.1 (35 - 155 pg/dL). As you can see free is low.

[dec11]

And to just to touch on something else, dec, you mentioned Nebido. Sadly, I couldn't tell you anything about the Nebido protocols (accept what I have read), simply because it is not approved in the US. Now figure that one out! I can get Deca , Winstrol , Anavar , more test than a pasture of bulls, but our Government is worried about the potential health risks of medicating with Nebido Pffft

they phased out shorter esters like test e over here simply because our health service is free and nebido is alot cheaper for them to use as a trt protocol.

[Vettester]

As of last labs my shbg and e2 were "textbook" and free test was low. I am hoping bringing up total test. will increase free test. without unduly affecting shbg or e2. Last total test lab was 6.04 (2.1 - 8.0 ng/mL), so a little higher than 60%. Total free was 40.1 (35 - 155 pg/dL). As you can see free is low.

I'd be curious to see what the SHBG score was? SHBG is always opposite on the free test (unless Albumin is somehow grossly off the charts), so it might benefit to adjust it a bit to compensate the lower free test. Usually, it's almost of sure bet that Vitamin D is usually low when this happens. If you haven't added D3 to your therapy, take a look at it. My D was in the 20's, now it's in the 60's, which included a doctor prescribed protocol of 50,000iu week. Amazing with how well it complimented my HRT regiment!

[kelkel]

My total test on 100 mg a week was 200, on 200 mg it's 900. I can't get by on 100 mg, I was higher than that without trt.

Point is some people are different, I'm not the only one.

Nope. You're the only one!

[Brazensol]

Yes my vit D was low, 32 (18 - 72 pg/mL) and I have been supplementing with 10,000 iu/day to bring it up. Will be curious to see what my next lab shows. My shbg was 23 (10 - 50 nmol/L) and E2 was 22.3 (7.6 - 42.6 pg/mL). I can't find my albumin numbers but they were "normal", if you will. I will post them if I can dig it up.

[pugster]

they phased out shorter esters like test e over here simply because our health service is free and nebido is alot cheaper for them to use as a trt protocol.

not really, each nebido vial costs the NHS £80 , thought i guess it works out cheaper man/woman power wise for surgeries where they dont self inject every week/fortnight and have the docs /nurses do it.

Testosterone Enantate 250 1ml amp -£13.33
Sustanon 250 1ml amp £2.45

both of the above are cost to the NHS, as you can see sustanon 250 works out alot cheaper than nebido

[TRTony]

lol darn i was hoping id feel something first day.im excited to start tommorow

[Brazensol]

If you inject it changes will come! Takes a little time though so try to be patient!

[TRTony]

ya i hear ya.i just want to at least feel something.not even from arimidex ?

[dec11]

not really, each nebido vial costs the NHS £80 , thought i guess it works out cheaper man/woman power wise for surgeries where they dont self inject every week/fortnight and have the docs /nurses do it.

Testosterone Enantate 250 1ml amp -£13.33
Sustanon 250 1ml amp £2.45

both of the above are cost to the NHS, as you can see sustanon 250 works out alot cheaper than nebido

its more expensive on legitimate markets mate, and the doc's time is factored in as well with blood panels etc, trust me its because nebido works out cheaper and thats why pretty soon its all that'll be on offer.

i once read that getting test e or sust on script equates out to £90 a pop!

[pugster]

its more expensive on legitimate markets mate, and the doc's time is factored in as well with blood panels etc, trust me its because nebido works out cheaper and thats why pretty soon its all that'll be on offer.

i once read that getting test e or sust on script equates out to £90 a pop!

those prices are legitimate ,they are taken from the BNF (british national formulary) , the BNF is the small handbook you sometime see a doc pull out and look at when hes prescribing , it lists all medication prices and other info , as i said myself and as you mention , it gets more expensive for the surgery when ppl dont self inject and man/woman power is booked/used to do it - thats where the extra cost jumps up not the actual cost of the testosterone itself.

* btw the BNF is free to join and can be found easy using your search engine (tho there are limitations for service users/non doctors )

[TRTony]

Did first injection and pill. Hope i feel something soon

[juice2012]

I definitely felt a "rush" after my first injection. I felt a lot of energy, appetite increased, and as soon as I walked through the door at home I immediately started banging my girlfriend. Everything felt different that first night it was awesome.

[JohnnyVegas]

I definitely felt a "rush" after my first injection. I felt a lot of energy, appetite increased, and as soon as I walked through the door at home I immediately started banging my girlfriend. Everything felt different that first night it was awesome.

Are you talking about a short ester? or long, like they are above (for TRT)? Regardless, I would think an immediate reaction is all in your head.