TRT dosing, Reference charts & questions.

[guner1904]

29yo guy here 232lbs at about 16-19% bf over the last 5 years ive lost both parent's 1 divorce 1 marriage 2 children born and started a new job a year ago. (stress kills test production) most recently im tired, irritable, lazy, not a terrible sex drive but not great either and have difficulty sleeping and concentrating. so i got my test checked......

just got labs back they were as follows

serum test 448 ng/dl
free test 10 pg/ml

now some charts i've seen say that's normal (lab corp) also the numbers they are from people tested through their facilities witch is kinda skewed i assume because without a reason to test your T lvl's you wouldnt get tested (mostly) I found a new chart that looks much more reasonable.

(sorry about the chart formatting software blocked import)

Measurements in Conventional Units (ng/dl), SHBG in (nmol/L)

age total test/ deviation/ free test/deviation/ SHBG/ deviation
25-34/ 617 170 12.3 2.8 35.5 8.8
35-44/ 668 212 10.3 1.2 40.1 7.9
45-54/ 606 213 9.1 2.2 44.6 8.2
55-65 562 195 8.3 2.1 45.5 8.8
65-74 524 197 6.9 2.3 48.7 14.2
75-84 471 169 6.0 2.3 51.0 22.7
85-100 376 134 5.4 2.3 65.9 22.8


according to this chart (wich i believe to be more accurate) i at 29yo have the test production of a 74yo "ouch"

so what the doctor recommended was to put pellet implants in my leg and dose me to "optimal
aiming for 1600 ng/dl.

5 years ago with no gear, no TRT, completly clean i was 289lbs 15-16% BF.

i have kind of formulated my own opinions but i would like any thoughts from the AR community especially any 1 with knowledge of implant pellets as to:

weather or not i will be able to regain the lost size on this dosage?

weather or not you feel the other charts are helpful or more accurate?

how much i can expect mood, sleep, focus and drive to improve? ETC.

and how pellet treatments compare to other forms ie. injections, pills, creams, etc.

answering or giving opinion on any of these or recomendations to add to this will be gladly recieved and much appreciated. THX.

[powerlifterty16]

29yo guy here 232lbs at about 16-19% bf over the last 5 years ive lost both parent's 1 divorce 1 marriage 2 children born and started a new job a year ago. (stress kills test production) most recently im tired, irritable, lazy, not a terrible sex drive but not great either and have difficulty sleeping and concentrating. so i got my test checked......

just got labs back they were as follows

serum test 448 ng/dl
free test 10 pg/ml

now some charts i've seen say that's normal (lab corp) also the numbers they are from people tested through their facilities witch is kinda skewed i assume because without a reason to test your T lvl's you wouldnt get tested (mostly) I found a new chart that looks much more reasonable.

(sorry about the chart formatting software blocked import)

Measurements in Conventional Units (ng/dl), SHBG in (nmol/L)

age total test/ deviation/ free test/deviation/ SHBG/ deviation
25-34/ 617 170 12.3 2.8 35.5 8.8
35-44/ 668 212 10.3 1.2 40.1 7.9
45-54/ 606 213 9.1 2.2 44.6 8.2
55-65 562 195 8.3 2.1 45.5 8.8
65-74 524 197 6.9 2.3 48.7 14.2
75-84 471 169 6.0 2.3 51.0 22.7
85-100 376 134 5.4 2.3 65.9 22.8


according to this chart (wich i believe to be more accurate) i at 29yo have the test production of a 74yo "ouch"

so what the doctor recommended was to put pellet implants in my leg and dose me to "optimal
aiming for 1600 ng/dl.

5 years ago with no gear, no TRT, completly clean i was 289lbs 15-16% BF.

i have kind of formulated my own opinions but i would like any thoughts from the AR community especially any 1 with knowledge of implant pellets as to:

weather or not i will be able to regain the lost size on this dosage?

weather or not you feel the other charts are helpful or more accurate?

how much i can expect mood, sleep, focus and drive to improve? ETC.

and how pellet treatments compare to other forms ie. injections, pills, creams, etc.

answering or giving opinion on any of these or recomendations to add to this will be gladly recieved and much appreciated. THX.

1600 is not optimal..1000 is

[powerlifterty16]

you also have the test of an 84 yr old. There is also a section that shows percentiles. you are in the 5th percentile i believe taking age into account

[guner1904]

how can you say 1000 is optimal ? is that just across the board ? or is there a hight age weight activity formula ? kinda hard to say one size fits all.

ya i say the one with percentiles but that chart would have exported way worse lol but i do like the percentile calcs theyre sweet.

[VTX1800]

I know that Dr. Crisler is not a fan of pellets you can google his write ups for sources sited

[Ryanmcd]

I think all your numbers are high, 1600 is a cycle and off the charts and most lab work will not even go that high because it's a cycle.

Why don't you start low and see how you feel and not go for a number? Also I call BS on this too 290 @ 15% lol unless you are 6'10+

Also how is your diet, sleep, have you tried to get your natural up before going right into "1600"? Also it's not just 1 shot and done I spent about 5k in my 1st year to get dialed in but you can 1/2 ass it, shoot for 1600 and hope you don't have to come off in 6 months due to high red blood count and not get ED and high E2 because @ 1600 you will be taking a good bit of AI so that's more blood work trying to get that dialed in.

After you clean your diet/sleep up and take a 2-3 more bloodwork samples over the next 3 months then come back and see how it goes? Going from 4xx to 6-7xx test levels off diet and sleep is not hard. I was @ 198 test level and still deadlifted 495 so it's not just test that will make you "buff"

[guner1904]

ryanmcd the 290 was accurate and im 6'2" the 15% was a guesstimate had a good 6 pack and really decent overall definition.

Doc and i discussed letrozol for an AI and mentioned that with the pellets 1600 would be the plateu that pellets curve upward quickly and then levels drop more slowly over a 6 month period so that the majority of the time i will be 1000-1400 she will be doing blood at 3 and 6 months and assumably another pelleting procedure at the 6-7 month mark. with labcorp topping their chart at 1197 i didnt think my average would be that high ive seen cycle test levels more around the 2900 range... she even mentioned that "if i got a wild hair and took up body building they could up my dose from there" (the 1600 that is)

diet is just ok at the moment but i have been getting back into planning meals and intake.

and at 232lbs i usually walk 3-4 miles a day at work and will be in the gym 4-6 days a week. my understanding was that test gets "used up" with the more physical activity you do....my thougts were that that level of activity would warrant such a dose. let me know what you think.

[powerlifterty16]

I think all your numbers are high, 1600 is a cycle and off the charts and most lab work will not even go that high because it's a cycle.

Why don't you start low and see how you feel and not go for a number? Also I call BS on this too 290 @ 15% lol unless you are 6'10+

Also how is your diet, sleep, have you tried to get your natural up before going right into "1600"? Also it's not just 1 shot and done I spent about 5k in my 1st year to get dialed in but you can 1/2 ass it, shoot for 1600 and hope you don't have to come off in 6 months due to high red blood count and not get ED and high E2 because @ 1600 you will be taking a good bit of AI so that's more blood work trying to get that dialed in.

After you clean your diet/sleep up and take a 2-3 more bloodwork samples over the next 3 months then come back and see how it goes? Going from 4xx to 6-7xx test levels off diet and sleep is not hard. I was @ 198 test level and still deadlifted 495 so it's not just test that will make you "buff"

props on the 495 dl at a shitty test level! shoulda added the 2.5 pounder to each side though

did you look like you could lift 495 though? Being ''buff'' is diff from being strong

[powerlifterty16]

you dont sound like you understand trt..and your doctor isnt lou ferigno is he

ryanmcd the 290 was accurate and im 6'2" the 15% was a guesstimate had a good 6 pack and really decent overall definition.

Doc and i discussed letrozol for an AI and mentioned that with the pellets 1600 would be the plateu that pellets curve upward quickly and then levels drop more slowly over a 6 month period so that the majority of the time i will be 1000-1400 she will be doing blood at 3 and 6 months and assumably another pelleting procedure at the 6-7 month mark. with labcorp topping their chart at 1197 i didnt think my average would be that high ive seen cycle test levels more around the 2900 range... she even mentioned that "if i got a wild hair and took up body building they could up my dose from there" (the 1600 that is)

diet is just ok at the moment but i have been getting back into planning meals and intake.

and at 232lbs i usually walk 3-4 miles a day at work and will be in the gym 4-6 days a week. my understanding was that test gets "used up" with the more physical activity you do....my thougts were that that level of activity would warrant such a dose. let me know what you think.

[ZenFitness]

I went a round on pellets and switch to self pokes after that. The pellets make you feel like a rockstar for a month, but that will be the peak and it goes into slow decline typically lasting like 3 - 4 months.

Self injections gives you a more stable level, and I agree that 1600 is way too high unless your doc is thinking that will be the initial level from the pellets and not a maintenance level. That said, I would still prefer keeping stable at one level.

[guner1904]

well mabey i dont understand TRT my understanding is that trt is meant to give you "optimal" test levels and finding out where you function "optimally" takes communication with the Doc and research on ones own part. personally at 290lbs i felt amazing could go all day and looked great. at the present moment i cant drum up the drive or energy to shovel the driveway or clean the garage at 440 test. it ****ing sucks its like life is there and i know what needs to be done i just cant bring myself to do it and that is very much not ever been me.

and ya my bigger lifts were about 2-3 years ago i think before i shut down. always have been more interested in raw strength rather than sculpting but my previous activity helped me get both before my Test crashed...
but strength and stam were there. i could set concrete block 10 hr days no problem.
so when the doc said i would plateau at 1600 and "float" around 1000-1400 i figured if i can get back to my 290lbs and be healthy that those levels would be about accurate for that weight and activity lvl.

[steroid.com 1]

At 29 and a life full of stress I'd want a deeper diagnosis before just throwing Testosterone on top of everything.

At 29 you should be a peak serum levels and you're not...what's the cause???

Did you get complete hormonal blood work done? Look at kel's sticky on Finding a TRT Doc and you will see the labs you need.

Did you get a complete and thorough Thyroid work up done?

Did you get all adrenal labs done?

Throwing Testosterone at a 29 year old otherwise healthy male is not best clinical practice.

You must eliminate all other pathologies and medical conditions first and foremost.

You need a change in lifestyle that's for sure.

So many things you need to do before embarking on a life long journey of Testosterone therapy .

Find a Doc who understands that concept...

[guner1904]

pretty sure i got it all would scan and post but filters arent letting me import only other things out of the ordinary were

creatinine ratio of 21 8-19
hdl is down at 35 <39
progesterone high 4.2 0.2-1.4

this doc is the leading and almost only HRT doc around. and almost all the GP's refer to this clinic.

thyroid tsh 0.556 0.450/ 4.5
and not sure what section the adrenal labs are but every thing else came out as normal according to labcorp specs

[ZenFitness]

my understanding was that test gets "used up" with the more physical activity you do

I don't think this is accurate - it's actually the reverse. The more physical activity you do, the more test you naturally (assuming non-TRT) produce. Thus, heavy weight lifting should (under healthy 100% conditions) produce more testosterone to keep up.

All this said, definitely feel for your current life situation with all you've gone through. I would re-echo GD's comments and highly suggest visiting your thyroid levels especially (T3 and others... at 0.556 you are at the bottom of the TSH range and may just need a little umph from Synthroid , etc... my sister-in-law was in range but rock bottom on thyroid levels and a very small amount of thyroid meds made a 100% difference in her energy level and (I'm presuming) libido). TRT is a big decision and one that will stick with you for life. I'm glad I'm on it but if there was an alternative I would've taken it. You also don't want to simply patch a problem - deal with the root cause if possible.

[powerlifterty16]

i thought the point of pellets was to keep you stable

[steroid.com 1]

Do you have labs for:

TSH
T4
T3
RT3
Thyroid Antibodies
Cortisol
Progesterone
DHEA-S

If so, please post with ranges.

[Ryanmcd]

props on the 495 dl at a shitty test level! shoulda added the 2.5 pounder to each side though

did you look like you could lift 495 though? Being ''buff'' is diff from being strong

My pops was strong as shit, did 405 DL @ 15 so I think it's a genetic thing, and no I did not look like I lifted because all I did was compounds, now with a test level of 800-1000 and doing higher reps I do and it only took about 3 months because I had a good base, also did 6 plates DL 2 weeks ago so the test does help but you still have to do the work, I think people miss the work part

[Ryanmcd]

well mabey i dont understand TRT my understanding is that trt is meant to give you "optimal" test levels and finding out where you function "optimally" takes communication with the Doc and research on ones own part. personally at 290lbs i felt amazing could go all day and looked great. at the present moment i cant drum up the drive or energy to shovel the driveway or clean the garage at 440 test. it ****ing sucks its like life is there and i know what needs to be done i just cant bring myself to do it and that is very much not ever been me.

and ya my bigger lifts were about 2-3 years ago i think before i shut down. always have been more interested in raw strength rather than sculpting but my previous activity helped me get both before my Test crashed...
but strength and stam were there. i could set concrete block 10 hr days no problem.
so when the doc said i would plateau at 1600 and "float" around 1000-1400 i figured if i can get back to my 290lbs and be healthy that those levels would be about accurate for that weight and activity lvl.

Get the other labs done, I wish it was that easy man getting a shot and feel great, I have friends who are on HRT with test levels @ 1500ish like you want and still feel like shit because the doc just threw test at them and sent them on the way. That happened to me as well until I got HCG I could not tell if I was on TRT or not, it's just seeing what the root issue is and then work that 1st, like trouble shooting a car that wont start, don't want to swap the motor when its outa gas