not to ruffle feathers but it seems most people on trt just want free steroids

[powerlifterty16]

With respect to the original Poster......your 23, and even though u may be a nicely well adjusted, educated fellow....U don't know Jack bro. The only thing I would tell my 23yr old self is to get off your high horse. IT's literally impossible for you to comprehend the point of view of someone who is 40 yrs old or even 35 for that matter. Do U make some valid observations yes of course, and with anything it's human Nature to want more. Are their a lot of dumb ass idiots on this forum, yes there are, but in my observations most are under 30.

at 23 im in a more fugged up situation than all of the older guys here.....i have no youth, and have to deal with problems at a young age that many of the guys here never did...and the worst part is that i didnt do this to myself.
do you know what's it like to have drs doubt you because you look halfway muscular and because you are so young? Do you know what it's like to know you will be sticking a needle into yourself for the next 60 years? That's at minimum 3120 weeks of needle pinning....for the rest of your life....not counting the hcg .
not trying to disrespect anyone here, and im glad that you guys have been mature for the most part

[ironbeck]

Bro..I understand you have a rough road ahead of you..But you have a handle on it and you are staring it down...keep your head up! It could ALWAYS be worse..........right. Each day is a challenge and a a blessing!

[calstate23]

at 23 im in a more fugged up situation than all of the older guys here.....i have no youth, and have to deal with problems at a young age that many of the guys here never did...and the worst part is that i didnt do this to myself.
do you know what's it like to have drs doubt you because you look halfway muscular and because you are so young? Do you know what it's like to know you will be sticking a needle into yourself for the next 60 years? That's at minimum 3120 weeks of needle pinning....for the rest of your life....not counting the hcg .
not trying to disrespect anyone here, and im glad that you guys have been mature for the most part

Yeah, that does suck but just because your situation sucks doesn't mean you need to point fingers at others just because they also want to feel good just like you..

And you know I'm sure someone in a wheel chair or blind person would switch places with you in a second...I'm sure that they also wouldn't mind facing the same road as you...Very minimal to what others have to deal with...

You have a fixable problem and some people don't...

All you can do is all you can do...

[booku]

I am 23 years old, and have been VERY fortunate in my care.

Everything was ruled out by an endocrinologist and a urologist, and I was given the help I felt like I deserved (script for 100 mg/week, allowed me to self inject straight away).

But yes, I have run into some of the same issues you talked about when trying to receive hCG therapy as well as my testosterone . It was certainly a bizarre situation when I walked into the doctor's office, and was 23 and very muscular (5'10.25" almost 200 pounds, <15% BF), and you can tell their suspicions are raised. And can you really blame them? They have dealt with people abusing this stuff for a long time, and it is guys like you and me that pay the price for their negligence. I find that the best strategy is to come in with a wealth of information and knowledge and also bring support (ie. a parent), and as bad as it sounds, wear clothes that cover you up and are loose fitting. Do not want to draw attention to the fact that you happen to have some muscle. That has nothing to do with your current well being (ie. fatigue, napping, no libido, brain fog, etc etc). It is a tough situation because you happen to be a recreational bodybuilder that has a medical condition where treatment for this stuff is exactly the same as the treatment for obtaining super human muscle mass. So that is where we sit, but keep going after a doc that will help you, they are out there!

[APIs]

The problem and the solution are both very simple, although most people rarely want to listen.

The strictness of TRT care is due to in part steroid abuse . However, steroid abuse as defined by those who often hate all steroids including when used therapeutically.

The solution, let people do what they want as long as they're not hurting anyone else. If I want to take 100mg/wk or 1,000mg/wk I should be free to do so and there is no single argument on earth that can legitimately say I shouldn't be free to do so.

Good point. Ron Paul would have it this way too had things been different lol. But seriously, who are we to deny treatment to someone just because they abused AS at a younger age? As mentioned above, those Docs & people who hate steroids wouldn’t allow "any" treatment with these compounds if they had their way. I think people over complicate finding qualified TRT treatment anyway. The viable Doctors who specialize in TRT are out there. You just have to do the foot-work like one would do with any other ailment or required therapy. As for blasting or the desire to gain muscle, you really have to be part of and/or understand the mind-set behind this to really understand it. Besides, I’m too busy with my own life to be concerned about what other people might be doing…

[powerlifterty16]

just wanted to update and say my brain/pituitary mri was normal!

[powerlifterty16]

I'm not trying to put anyone down or point fingers for trying to improve their LOW T on TRT. Regardless of age or testlevel(as long as it's under 600), i think we are all entitled to trt. I dont think we are all entitled to blast and still call it trt, or to have blasts prescribed for us.
just my .02. When i go to the urologist or other doctors i usually wear a sweat shirt so i look less muscular lol

Yeah, that does suck but just because your situation sucks doesn't mean you need to point fingers at others just because they also want to feel good just like you..

And you know I'm sure someone in a wheel chair or blind person would switch places with you in a second...I'm sure that they also wouldn't mind facing the same road as you...Very minimal to what others have to deal with...

You have a fixable problem and some people don't...

All you can do is all you can do...

[powerlifterty16]

Here's the thing, the premise behind individuals going on trt in the first palce is that they feel BAD..they have all or a good majority of the symptoms that make low t a nightmare. Many of the symptoms of low t however are similar to the symptoms of too much t. Aggression, headaches, low libido, reduced brain functioning....all symptoms of both high and low t. If people were really on trt to reduce the symptoms of low t(which are also the symptoms of too much t) then, they wouldnt be blasting.

Good point. Ron Paul would have it this way too had things been different lol. But seriously, who are we to deny treatment to someone just because they abused AS at a younger age? As mentioned above, those Docs & people who hate steroids wouldn’t allow "any" treatment with these compounds if they had their way. I think people over complicate finding qualified TRT treatment anyway. The viable Doctors who specialize in TRT are out there. You just have to do the foot-work like one would do with any other ailment or required therapy. As for blasting or the desire to gain muscle, you really have to be part of and/or understand the mind-set behind this to really understand it. Besides, I’m too busy with my own life to be concerned about what other people might be doing…

[Metalject]

For whatever it's worth, if you really do need TRT and that means you'll be injecting 1-2x/wk for the rest of your life you'll find it's not a big deal. In fact, it'll become as routine as brushing your teeth and really shouldn't take any longer than brushing your teeth. When you've never done it before it does seem strange but in time you won't even think about it.

[kelkel]

just wanted to update and say my brain/pituitary mri was normal!

See, you do have some luck. Mine was abnormal and revealed a tumor.

[crashfirepm53]

For whatever it's worth, if you really do need TRT and that means you'll be injecting 1-2x/wk for the rest of your life you'll find it's not a big deal. In fact, it'll become as routine as brushing your teeth and really shouldn't take any longer than brushing your teeth. When you've never done it before it does seem strange but in time you won't even think about it.

I will venture to say that treatment of hrt will likely be very different in the next 20 years with the advances in medicine. 60 years from now could be some Star Trek chit.

[fireeater49]

Following the logic presented here, I guess since beer is "legal" then its ok to want more than one drink and drink your azz off but since AAS is used in TRT and there are some who want to get more results albeit with or without consequences, then that is wrong. Sorry, I do not buy that. Myself, I want to feel "normal" again and that is why I went the TRT route. I feel great, been told I look great, and my BW is great. If I want to play around and get it better, then why is that so wrong? I will have to face the consequences, not anyone else (unlike drinking and driving). Sorry if my libertarianism roots show but please until you have walked in my shoes, do not keep me from buying more comfortable shoes (bad joke). Sorry for the rant but like in life EVERYTHING has its risks and rewards.

[fireeater49]

Agreed, and where is the commotion about DM pts taking their shots of insulin ? Its making them better like TRT is making me better.

[Nestor Otto Sewell]

For whatever it's worth, if you really do need TRT and that means you'll be injecting 1-2x/wk for the rest of your life you'll find it's not a big deal. In fact, it'll become as routine as brushing your teeth and really shouldn't take any longer than brushing your teeth. When you've never done it before it does seem strange but in time you won't even think about it.

I'm three weeks in and it's already routine. The pinning is nothing.

BTW, pinning, a new verb for me! Learned here of course!

[calstate23]

just wanted to update and say my brain/pituitary mri was normal!

Good for you...

Pinning isn't that bad anyway...If you have to pin forever it will be next to nothing once you start feeling better...

Hell, some people pin ALL YEAR long for YEARS and YEARS and they don't even need it! ha ha

[powerlifterty16]

im hoping 2 tbsp of olive oil per day, and the cortisol pills i bought will help me out

[powerlifterty16]

didnt want to make a new thread for this, but is it possible to have normal or high libido with 339 tt and low free test...and low estrogen? My libido is not too bad..not amazing...but not too bad...and i have no problem with erections

[Nestor Otto Sewell]

A question I can answer. At a Total Test of 100 I was horny and maintaining boners. They were not as good as they are now, nor as frequent, but I was getting trim for sure. Now at three weeks into TRT.... oh... all I can say is... my poor wife, she's older than I and already has to deal with the new me. :-D

[bringndaheat]

Everyone has their own unique situation of why they choose to do what they do. Is it always the right choice no it's not. But to judge people who's shoes you have not walked in us wrong. TRT is not free by any means. Like Ironbeck said its simple human nature to want more! I hope u get to the bottom of your condition and everything works out!
-Heat

[powerlifterty16]

Everyone has their own unique situation of why they choose to do what they do. Is it always the right choice no it's not. But to judge people who's shoes you have not walked in us wrong. TRT is not free by any means. Like Ironbeck said its simple human nature to want more! I hope u get to the bottom of your condition and everything works out!
-Heat

i'm not saying that they are bad people, im just saying that they are not correctly utilzing trt. Trt is by definition; supplemental use of bioidentical testosterone by deficient males in order to replace what is lost to counteract the debilitating effects of test deficiency. That is my personal definition.

Blasting is in no way, healthy or necessary.

Now, as far as hgh goes, i cant fully bash it, because maybe it has necessary effects, but as far as i know, it is just used by people who want legal roids.

[tigerspawn]

the biggest thing that bothers me, is that people are doing blasts. Im not trying to ruffle feathers, but trt is supposed to be replacement therapy to live a healthy life, it isnt supposed to be free steroids. 100mg/wk as it is is more than most 20 yr olds produce..and 200 is much more..why blast?

I agree that TRT is supposed to be TX for people with low T levels. Treatments begin as valid that is only way that medical establishments are allowed to implement them. Then Drs start using the TX for individuals that don’t need the TX stretching the requirements for the TX. Eventually there are no requirements for the TX. This is what originally happened with plastic surgery and breast implants.

This stuff makes it hard for guys like me, who havent even done steroids and are hypogonadal at a young age to get proper care. I dont even want to blast..i just want a t level of 800-900 with low normal estrogen, so ican improve my lifts(yes i care about muscle too), and feel better.side question-do you think there is any merit t the ''test causes cancer'' claims

It shouldn’t be hard for you to receive TX if your T levels are low you meet requirements for receiving TX. There are five local doctors are prescribing to individuals who are starting at average or above average T levels. Corporation that owns hospital I work for sent me and a team to local TRT clinic they own to help review medical records. Over half of the records I went over contained PTs that began TX with levels above average. The only thing this clinic has to do to justify TX is state S&S of low T. I have never taken care of PT that had cancer caused by T. However, I have read a lot of research papers by medical institutes and studies showing proof that it does.

[powerlifterty16]

my urologist prescribed me hcg for 6 weeks..we are going to see if it raises my levels. unfortunately he didnt prescribe an ai..so im on the fence about filling the script.

I agree that TRT is supposed to be TX for people with low T levels. Treatments begin as valid that is only way that medical establishments are allowed to implement them. Then Drs start using the TX for individuals that don’t need the TX stretching the requirements for the TX. Eventually there are no requirements for the TX. This is what originally happened with plastic surgery and breast implants.



It shouldn’t be hard for you to receive TX if your T levels are low you meet requirements for receiving TX. There are five local doctors are prescribing to individuals who are starting at average or above average T levels. Corporation that owns hospital I work for sent me and a team to local TRT clinic they own to help review medical records. Over half of the records I went over contained PTs that began TX with levels above average. The only thing this clinic has to do to justify TX is state S&S of low T. I have never taken care of PT that had cancer caused by T. However, I have read a lot of research papers by medical institutes and studies showing proof that it does.

[Beetlegeuse]

I see nothing wrong with free steroids . Or free beer and hot wings. Or free lap dances. In fact, I feel a Constitutional Amendment coming on.

If your PCP (or endocrinologist) isn't providing the level of care you think is appropriate (i.e., he's giving you static because you want 'roids), it would be more productive to fire him and find one who is more sympathetic to your needs than to bitch about others who've not met with the same resistance (or met with it and already found a way around it). They generally bristle when you remind them of it but doctors are just hired help, and it doesn't rise to the level of Doctor Shopping until you manage to talk your way into multiple prescriptions from multiple doctors for the same or similar medications.

All unlawful acts fall into one of two categories, malum in se or malum prohibitum. Malum in se means "evil of itself" and refers to "Ten Commandments" sort of criminal acts. Like murder, kidnapping and stealing, which are illegal because the nature of the act is inherently evil. Malum prohibitum offenses are not inherently evil and are unlawful for no other reason than because somebody in authority says they are. Stuff like cheating on your taxes and removing the tags from mattresses.

'Roid rage aside, users don't pose a threat to anyone apart themselves, and there's got to be at least a thousand mean drunks in America for every 'roid rager, so I hardly think you could make the malum in se argument. Steroids are like pot in that they're only illegal because some politician got spun up over them and decided they needed to be controlled.

I can't post a link yet but there's a video on YouTube that explains in succinct detail why the FDA chooses to cast such a wide net when selecting which substances fall under its control. Search for the video titled, "We've gotta protect our phony baloney jobs!" and fast forward to the six second mark.

Regarding the studies linking Test to cancer, how were the patients surveyed categorized? Was it limited to those whose only Test use was medically-prescribed or did it also include recreational users?

[NJA82]

I am 23 years old, and have been VERY fortunate in my care.

Everything was ruled out by an endocrinologist and a urologist, and I was given the help I felt like I deserved (script for 100 mg/week, allowed me to self inject straight away).

But yes, I have run into some of the same issues you talked about when trying to receive hCG therapy as well as my testosterone. It was certainly a bizarre situation when I walked into the doctor's office, and was 23 and very muscular (5'10.25" almost 200 pounds, <15% BF), and you can tell their suspicions are raised. And can you really blame them? They have dealt with people abusing this stuff for a long time, and it is guys like you and me that pay the price for their negligence. I find that the best strategy is to come in with a wealth of information and knowledge and also bring support (ie. a parent), and as bad as it sounds, wear clothes that cover you up and are loose fitting. Do not want to draw attention to the fact that you happen to have some muscle. That has nothing to do with your current well being (ie. fatigue, napping, no libido, brain fog, etc etc). It is a tough situation because you happen to be a recreational bodybuilder that has a medical condition where treatment for this stuff is exactly the same as the treatment for obtaining super human muscle mass. So that is where we sit, but keep going after a doc that will help you, they are out there!

Wow this post really hit home with me, this is exactly my situation that you described for me but unfortunately because I lift and have done so for years and have always eaten clean and looked after myself i have become my own worst enemy... My GP and endo i have just finished dealing with both didnt take me serious, despite the below normal blood results and the fact i went to them primarily because i was suffering low libido, fatigue and depression they just assumed that because i looked muscular ( only because i have trained hard and ate clean for many years previous ) that i couldnt possibly have an androgen deficiency, even though i complained to them that i had noticeably lost lean mass, strength and gained BF over the past 12-18 months. Would have had more success getting treated if i was an over weight slob that drank and smoked and didnt care about my body. How ironic.

Its tough to get help when you need it sadly because of the people who do abuse the system.