No More Insurance for TRT

[Beethoven]

(Maybe this will have you guys talk about something else.) ;-)
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I appreciate everyone's take on this thread. It's good that though we may disagree we can do it in a professional, educated fashion. Freedom of speech at its finest. I'm going to try and keep helping and learning about trt, I don't think any of us can change what's happening now for the time being. 2sox, you're on.

[2Sox]

(Maybe this will have you guys talk about something else.) ;-)
Like
I appreciate everyone's take on this thread. It's good that though we may disagree we can do it in a professional, educated fashion. Freedom of speech at its finest. I'm going to try and keep helping and learning about trt, I don't think any of us can change what's happening now for the time being. 2sox, you're on.

Just something I thought I'd post for good measure that ALL political strips should keep in mind. This is from Joseph Goebbels, the former Nazi minister of propaganda:

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Now here we ought to substitute the word "oligarchy" for "state" because, it's common knowledge that an oligarchy is what we have firmly entrenched in this country and it is buying elections right under our noses.

On another note: I wish I was an expert on economics, on law, the ACA, so that I could knowlegeably comment on what you guys have been posting here. But unfortunately because I'm not, I'm not able to be as useful to you as I would like to be. You know that I care for and respect facts very much and I'd rather not comment unless I have them readily available. I do hope that if there are members on this forum who have been lurking on this thread, and who are knowledgeable in these areas, they would come out and contribute their comments. Remember: We have all colors of the flag here - red, blue, white...and some.

[Beethoven]

Just something I thought I'd post for good measure that ALL political strips should keep in mind. This is from Joseph Goebbels, the former Nazi minister of propaganda:

“If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State.”

Now here we ought to substitute the word "oligarchy" for "state" because, it's common knowledge that an oligarchy is what we have firmly entrenched in this country and it is buying elections right under our noses.

On another note: I wish I was an expert on economics, on law, the ACA, so that I could knowlegeably comment on what you guys have been posting here. But unfortunately because I'm not, I'm not able to be as useful to you as I would like to be. You know that I care for and respect facts very much and I'd rather not comment unless I have them readily available. I do hope that if there are members on this forum who have been lurking on this thread, and who are knowledgeable in these areas, they would come out and contribute their comments. Remember: We have all colors of the flag here - red, blue, white...and some.

First of all, 2Sox you are a well respected member of this forum, and I in particular have learned much from you on trt and probably think very much alike on the subject. Oligarchy, can we agree that it exists on both sides of the political aisle? On the right, supposedly big oil, Haliburton, etc. on the left, Solindra, GE, global warming, climate change whatever. So to say there is money behind this yes. Pres Obama out moneyed Mitt Romney so to imply that this is a one sided affair is really nieve and not realistic. The stories you've been reading on this thread for the most part is first hand accounts. I don't think we need an economist to explain to us that the government has no place telling any particular business how, where, when and what to charge for their service or product. Consumers decide that. You are free to buy or not to buy a service or product. As long as you are not infringing upon someone else's life or liberty you have the freedom to engage in that enterprise. If an employee doesn't like a particular job, move on. If you don't have the education to move on, get it. If there are shortages of employees or skilled people to fill a position the wage goes up. If it is an unskilled position where there are 20 people standing outside your door, the wage is lower. You can't expect a guy sweeping the floor is going to make what say an engineer in the firm is making. If you don't want to be a floor sweeper, go to school. It's free. The problem with this social type of thinking is people make some very bad choices in their lives, then don't like the outcome of where it brought them and now those of us who have managed to make the right ones, or at least made up for some poor ones be responsible for them. When the government messes with the open market, the market will adjust. Do you think legalizing twelve million more people will help or hurt the job market. It will drive down the wage. So the government raises the wage, the product or service price goes up. Either way WE the consumer of that good or service will pay. When you mandate insurance coverage for companies at over forty hours, everyone now becomes part time employees. The government with all their "good intentions" always mess up the process. When the company ceases to make a profit, they close their doors and everyone there is unemployed. So now, the government has to extend unemployment benefits because it doesn't recognize IT is the problem. Who pays those unemployment benefits you ask? WE do. Nothing in life is free nor should you expect it to be. The President is not donating his salary, on the contrary he has gotten rather wealthy. So has Al Gore. So he is allowed to have an environmental foot print the size of Rhode Island because he's got money to plant a bunch of trees? Well you and I don't. Why isn't he vilified? At the end he is just another rich guy but is above scrutiny because he is on their side where Mitt Romney is an EVIL rich guy. Are we seeing the hypocrisy yet?

[2Sox]

First of all, 2Sox you are a well respected member of this forum, and I in particular have learned much from you on trt and probably think very much alike on the subject. Oligarchy, can we agree that it exists on both sides of the political aisle? On the right, supposedly big oil, Haliburton, etc. on the left, Solindra, GE, global warming, climate change whatever. So to say there is money behind this yes. Pres Obama out moneyed Mitt Romney so to imply that this is a one sided affair is really nieve and not realistic. The stories you've been reading on this thread for the most part is first hand accounts. I don't think we need an economist to explain to us that the government has no place telling any particular business how, where, when and what to charge for their service or product. Consumers decide that. You are free to buy or not to buy a service or product. As long as you are not infringing upon someone else's life or liberty you have the freedom to engage in that enterprise. If an employee doesn't like a particular job, move on. If you don't have the education to move on, get it. If there are shortages of employees or skilled people to fill a position the wage goes up. If it is an unskilled position where there are 20 people standing outside your door, the wage is lower. You can't expect a guy sweeping the floor is going to make what say an engineer in the firm is making. If you don't want to be a floor sweeper, go to school. It's free. The problem with this social type of thinking is people make some very bad choices in their lives, then don't like the outcome of where it brought them and now those of us who have managed to make the right ones, or at least made up for some poor ones be responsible for them. When the government messes with the open market, the market will adjust. Do you think legalizing twelve million more people will help or hurt the job market. It will drive down the wage. So the government raises the wage, the product or service price goes up. Either way WE the consumer of that good or service will pay. When you mandate insurance coverage for companies at over forty hours, everyone now becomes part time employees. The government with all their "good intentions" always mess up the process. When the company ceases to make a profit, they close their doors and everyone there is unemployed. So now, the government has to extend unemployment benefits because it doesn't recognize IT is the problem. Who pays those unemployment benefits you ask? WE do. Nothing in life is free nor should you expect it to be. The President is not donating his salary, on the contrary he has gotten rather wealthy. So has Al Gore. So he is allowed to have an environmental foot print the size of Rhode Island because he's got money to plant a bunch of trees? Well you and I don't. Why isn't he vilified? At the end he is just another rich guy but is above scrutiny because he is on their side where Mitt Romney is an EVIL rich guy. Are we seeing the hypocrisy yet?

Keeping in mind the quote above in post #205, I'll tell you what.. I've watched Fox, I've listened to Hannity and to Rush - all with a mixture of curiosity and incredulity. I've found Hannity to be a jaw-dropping, effortless liar, and Rush to be an extremely talented manipulator of actual facts and an adroit manufacturer of others. I say this to preface my next remark.

Perhaps you and others would consider watching MSNBC for a few evenings to see the "Progressive" take on things? Or try listening to Randi Rhodes at Randirhodes.com. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts after this experience. (I'd also be curious about how many would actually accept this invitation.)

[BuzzardMarinePumper]

Keeping in mind the quote above in post #205, I'll tell you what.. I've watched Fox, I've listened to Hannity and to Rush - all with a mixture of curiosity and incredulity. I've found Hannity to be a jaw-dropping, effortless liar, and Rush to be an extremely talented manipulator of actual facts and an adroit manufacturer of others. I say this to preface my next remark.

Perhaps you and others would consider watching MSNBC for a few evenings to see the "Progressive" take on things? Or try listening to Randi Rhodes at Randirhodes.com. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts after this experience. (I'd also be curious about how many would actually accept this invitation.)

Hello my friend 2sox MSNBC or the communist News Network (CNN) Does not corner the market on liberal nuts ! Fox has it's fair share also ! There is a little Wormy looking guy with glasses Combs he tried to make the Col look like a fool and the Col. handled himself like the gentleman he is a decorated War hero, of interviewed the respected Patriot Col. Riliey with reguards to OAS That will be the peacful presentation by private citizens to the United States Govt. on May 16th to make demands and to actually form a tribunal to Remover from office all the Govet officials Rep and Dem alike that have perverted to constitution and have actully commited treason according to the Constitution of the United States of America

[Beethoven]

Keeping in mind the quote above in post #205, I'll tell you what.. I've watched Fox, I've listened to Hannity and to Rush - all with a mixture of curiosity and incredulity. I've found Hannity to be a jaw-dropping, effortless liar, and Rush to be an extremely talented manipulator of actual facts and an adroit manufacturer of others. I say this to preface my next remark.

Perhaps you and others would consider watching MSNBC for a few evenings to see the "Progressive" take on things? Or try listening to Randi Rhodes at Randirhodes.com. I'd be curious to hear your thoughts after this experience. (I'd also be curious about how many would actually accept this invitation.)

Yes my friend, I have watched everyone from Cris Matthews with his tingly leg to Candi Crowley, who tried to correct Mitt Romney during the debate when her facts were incorrect. Randi cant stay on the air because her show loses money. So yes even the fired Rick Sanchez trying to fence straddle down here. First I wonder if we can find some points we can agree on. 1. The media is biased one way or the other. I say this because we can agree Fox slants right, pretty much everyone else leans left. 2. The ACA was not bipartisan and wasn't even generated in the house because lack of support in your own party. So it was deemed passed via reconciliation. I wonder if we can agree on those two points. Otherwise this conversation is moot. It may sound that I think Republicans can do no wrong but that could not be further from the truth. I can call crap on both sides. I would challenge you to do some research and not blindly follow ANY of those outlets. They just serve to strengthen whichever base they cater to. So if we can agree on the two points we have something to build on. 3. Nothing in life is free, someone is paying for it. Let's start here and see where we end up.

[2Sox]

Yes my friend, I have watched everyone from Cris Matthews with his tingly leg to Candi Crowley, who tried to correct Mitt Romney during the debate when her facts were incorrect. Randi cant stay on the air because her show loses money. So yes even the fired Rick Sanchez trying to fence straddle down here. First I wonder if we can find some points we can agree on. 1. The media is biased one way or the other. I say this because we can agree Fox slants right, pretty much everyone else leans left. 2. The ACA was not bipartisan and wasn't even generated in the house because lack of support in your own party. So it was deemed passed via reconciliation. I wonder if we can agree on those two points. Otherwise this conversation is moot. It may sound that I think Republicans can do no wrong but that could not be further from the truth. I can call crap on both sides. I would challenge you to do some research and not blindly follow ANY of those outlets. They just serve to strengthen whichever base they cater to. So if we can agree on the two points we have something to build on. 3. Nothing in life is free, someone is paying for it. Let's start here and see where we end up.

Regrettably, I'll have to consider our conversation on the issue of Obamacare at an end. As I indicated previously, I haven't the information necessary to continue, and to be honest, I simply don't wish to debate it. No offense is intended by this. I'm not here to change minds - just to do my part in opening them a little. And to open mine to learn. And I have indeed learned a great deal.

[Beethoven]

Regrettably, I'll have to consider our conversation on the issue of Obamacare at an end. As I indicated previously, I haven't the information necessary to continue, and to be honest, I simply don't wish to debate it. No offense is intended by this. I'm not here to change minds - just to do my part in opening them a little. And to open mine to learn. And I have indeed learned a great deal.

Very well, but if don't want you to mis interpret our discussion. It is not necessarily to change your mind, maybe mine. Adults discussing facts and ideas is what politics used to be about. Now it's the war on women, and all this other hyperbole and ad hominem attacks instead of debating ideas. Both sides mind you are at fault and are robbing us blind. And we can't get past our emotional commitment to these people and can't see the forest through the trees. So my point being is don't trust any of the media because they are all invested in themselves and not us. Question everything. Pres Bush was raked over the coals for spying on terrorists, (supposedly), and this administration is spying on everyone and no one cares. So where your medical records before resided exclusively with your Dr and you, now it's all going to be digital in a government data base. If that doesn't scare the hell out of you then we truly are at the end as there is no more to discuss. I don't want anyone other than my Dr or myself with my medical records. Why? It's none of their damn business. But Obamacare operates on the basis that millions of HEALTHY working adults who don't need it or often pay as you go HAVE to sign up and pay for a service they don't need so that the others may have it. And at a cheaper rate. So the government is forcing Americans to purchase a product. That is not what this country is about, and if you can't see the places this can lead to, you are blindly trusting these people. If it were a Republican president would you blindly follow or would you question them? Question all of them for government has become self serving and not serving us.

BuzzardMarineThumper..... Semper Fi brother.