Blood Thickening Heart Attack Risk on TRT

[bruary17]

Currently taking 200mg of Testosterone Cypionate every two weeks. 35 year old healthy male, I work out 5-6 days a week (bodybuilder oriented).

My nurse who administered me my first shot said every 4-6 months they will be testing my hematocrit to make sure my red blood cell count isn't dangerously increasing.

This kind of freaked me out some, and my anxiety is a bit high over it. Anyone have some insight on this? Any good info or personal experiences?

[bullshark99]

Common knowledge my friend, blood thickening possible leads to stroke. Get in the habit of donating blood.

[Trevtrev]

If you are really worried and don't want to wait, pull some bloods and find out.

If you're in range, you're worrying for nothing. If you are over a bit start donating blood and see if it comes down.

[bruary17]

Any tell tale signs that it's starting to happen?

[Trevtrev]

For me I start feeling a bit lethargic. The day after I give blood I usually feel more energetic.

My number is usually around 45 to 47. 51 being the typical max.

[kelkel]

Any tell tale signs that it's starting to happen?

Yes, you wake up in the hospital! But seriously, this is an important thing to track while on TRT. Many times it's caused simply by guys running too high a TRT dose and dosing down can greatly help. Speaking of dosing, what idiot doctor put you on 200 every two weeks? The half life of test is about 5-7 days metabolism dependent. This means weekly injections at a minimum. Your doc is dosing you based on the terminal life of the drug which is horrible and a virtual roller coaster of test levels. Meaning a few days after injection you're just on a slow slide down and not maintaining any form of steady level.

At a minimum you should switch this to 100mg's per week and retest in a month to see where you're at. I'd bet you'd feel much better this way. Regarding your blood question, read this link. Forget that it's related to cycles as that just makes it occur faster:

How To Cycle Safely by Observing Blood Counts

[Times Roman]

Currently taking 200mg of Testosterone Cypionate every two weeks. 35 year old healthy male, I work out 5-6 days a week (bodybuilder oriented).

My nurse who administered me my first shot said every 4-6 months they will be testing my hematocrit to make sure my red blood cell count isn't dangerously increasing.

This kind of freaked me out some, and my anxiety is a bit high over it. Anyone have some insight on this? Any good info or personal experiences?

it can take a year or two to determine your optimal dose

what is an optimal dose?

it is the "highest" dose you can take and still maintain relatively normal blood levels, including blood pressure, and pulse rate.

For me, that's about 80mg/week.

yes, in the beginning, I debated with my doc on what the right dose was, and resisted his wanting to reduce the dose. But this is for the rest of your life, so you need to make sure you get control of your results early on.

[Beethoven]

I have theraputic draws monthly. 81 mgs aspirin daily.

[bruary17]

Yes, you wake up in the hospital! But seriously, this is an important thing to track while on TRT. Many times it's caused simply by guys running too high a TRT dose and dosing down can greatly help. Speaking of dosing, what idiot doctor put you on 200 every two weeks? The half life of test is about 5-7 days metabolism dependent. This means weekly injections at a minimum. Your doc is dosing you based on the terminal life of the drug which is horrible and a virtual roller coaster of test levels. Meaning a few days after injection you're just on a slow slide down and not maintaining any form of steady level.

At a minimum you should switch this to 100mg's per week and retest in a month to see where you're at. I'd bet you'd feel much better this way. Regarding your blood question, read this link. Forget that it's related to cycles as that just makes it occur faster:

How To Cycle Safely by Observing Blood Counts

Thank you for that link. I plan to read it in-depth when a get a chance today.

And I thought the same about the dosing as you! A more frequent dosing makes more sense to me for stable levels seeing as what I know about Test. Cyp.

Is once a month testing of hematocrit adequate or what would you suggest? Also, another member mentioned aspirin daily, I know of the blood thinning effects of aspirin but would daily dosing be beneficial at all?

[bruary17]

it can take a year or two to determine your optimal dose

what is an optimal dose?

it is the "highest" dose you can take and still maintain relatively normal blood levels, including blood pressure, and pulse rate.

For me, that's about 80mg/week.

yes, in the beginning, I debated with my doc on what the right dose was, and resisted his wanting to reduce the dose. But this is for the rest of your life, so you need to make sure you get control of your results early on.

Times, I don't want this to be a life-time commitment, maybe 6 months to a year, I feel I'm too young for this and I do want children, sooner than later. I can live with my low-end natural testosterone levels ....my main purpose in following through with this is for my physique....to improve and add more muscle as I feel I have pretty much tapped my genetic potential.

[kelkel]

An aspirin and proper hydration can never hurt. No, you do not need to test hema that often. Why not just go and donate blood? Good for you, good for society and they'll tell you what your hemoglobin value is. Times your hemo by 3 and you'll have your hema level....

[Bonaparte]

Times, I don't want this to be a life-time commitment, maybe 6 months to a year, I feel I'm too young for this and I do want children, sooner than later. I can live with my low-end natural testosterone levels....my main purpose in following through with this is for my physique....to improve and add more muscle as I feel I have pretty much tapped my genetic potential.

Then you don't want to mess with HRT. It won't improve your physique much, and your test levels will only end up lower once you come off (even with PCT).

[Times Roman]

Times, I don't want this to be a life-time commitment, maybe 6 months to a year, I feel I'm too young for this and I do want children, sooner than later. I can live with my low-end natural testosterone levels....my main purpose in following through with this is for my physique....to improve and add more muscle as I feel I have pretty much tapped my genetic potential.

this is nothing to play around with. you are considering shutting down your natty test levels for 6 to 12 months for a replacement level dose.

so let's back up the truck for a bit and talk.

TRT is for those men that have inadequately low T levels most often derived from the aging process. We take TRT for a variety of reasons, and we educate and deliberate before making such a decision. For most, which is a very high percentage, this is a LIFE LONG COMMITMENT. Not some thing to be trivialized. Your natty T production will stop. Your nuts will shrivel. Your RBC will go up and your body/blood will need monitoring. Additionally, quite often, your E levels will go up to, which needs managing. TRT is a complex treatment with many potential sides and risks. Not something for someone such as yourself to play around with, especially if you still want to produce babies.

You want to straddle the fence and have your cake and eat it too.

This is a bad idea.

Improve your physique the old fashioned way, the way most of us have done here, through hard work, diet, exercise and discipline. Stop watching the friggin TV commercials that want you to buy their stupid T products.

Educate before you medicate

'nuff said

---Roman

[bruary17]

this is nothing to play around with. you are considering shutting down your natty test levels for 6 to 12 months for a replacement level dose.

so let's back up the truck for a bit and talk.

TRT is for those men that have inadequately low T levels most often derived from the aging process. We take TRT for a variety of reasons, and we educate and deliberate before making such a decision. For most, which is a very high percentage, this is a LIFE LONG COMMITMENT. Not some thing to be trivialized. Your natty T production will stop. Your nuts will shrivel. Your RBC will go up and your body/blood will need monitoring. Additionally, quite often, your E levels will go up to, which needs managing. TRT is a complex treatment with many potential sides and risks. Not something for someone such as yourself to play around with, especially if you still want to produce babies.

You want to straddle the fence and have your cake and eat it too.

This is a bad idea.

Improve your physique the old fashioned way, the way most of us have done here, through hard work, diet, exercise and discipline. Stop watching the friggin TV commercials that want you to buy their stupid T products.

Educate before you medicate

'nuff said

---Roman

Thanks, Times. I hear ya. My T levels are naturally low...I always joked about this with friends, saying wouldn't it be great if I had low T levels and got prescribed pharmaceutical grade testosterone from my doctor. Now hear I am and I'm all confused. I can live with my low T, it wasn't that debilitating. My MAIN objective here was to add some good weight. I'm 6ft 180lbs first thing in the morning...I'm not where I want to be and I feel my low T and my shit genetics is keeping me from achieving what I want with my body. I hear guys saying all the time; "You're 6ft and 180lbs?! You don't need steroids you need a sandwich". That's just not the case...I feel that your genetics are a definitive indication to what you will achieve in this game and mine suck! I'm not making excuses, with my dedication to he gym and diet I feel like I should have achieved a lot more.

You see, my mom is 5'9 110 pounds soaking wet, she's got the smallest wrists and ankles you've ever saw, she is tall and frail! My dad is 5'8 and obese, big gut and the world skinniest chicken legs you've ever seen, both parent have extremely high calve inserts and serious chopstick legs. This is what I'm working with here and it's tough.

Anyway, I think I'm ready to run a real 12 week cycle of test at 400-500mgs a week. Follow it up with some tamoxifin citrate to restart natural test and keep firing away at the weights.

Got some thinking to do but leaning toward that route.

[bruary17]

I want to be big, and recognized as big. Isn't that why a good majority of us is here?

[TShoot]

An aspirin and proper hydration can never hurt. No, you do not need to test hema that often. Why not just go and donate blood? Good for you, good for society and they'll tell you what your hemoglobin value is. Times your hemo by 3 and you'll have your hema level....

Red Cross won't let a lot of people donate blood. Like me, if you spent anytime overseas in certain foreign countries (like England with the USAF in the mid-80s) than you are on a permanent ban. Worried about Mad Cow disease.

Really sucks. You need to go to your doc and get a script for a therapeutic phlebotomy.

[kelkel]

Red Cross won't let a lot of people donate blood. Like me, if you spent anytime overseas in certain foreign countries (like England with the USAF in the mid-80s) than you are on a permanent ban. Worried about Mad Cow disease.

Really sucks. You need to go to your doc and get a script for a therapeutic phlebotomy.

Yep, unfortunately their questionnaire is over-broad. It's where "fibbing" comes in handy.....

[Beethoven]

I want to be big, and recognized as big. Isn't that why a good majority of us is here?

Uh no. The majority of us are here because we can't live with low t. So you say you can live with low t but not willing to be smaller?

[Times Roman]

I want to be big, and recognized as big. Isn't that why a good majority of us is here?

I was doing what I do almost 40 years before showing up here. There are a variety of reasons for what I do. Worrying about how I look is a very small part of it

[< <Samson> >]

When you get deeper into this game, you start understand how much you are putting your health into your own hands.

Before I started I never thought I'd get this deep into it.

After starting my self prescribed TRT I started doing regular BW. BW did show a slow rise in RBC. At this point I looked into self blood letting.

My woman does it for me - it's like doing a oil change on your own car. Every 6-8 weeks I drop a litre of blood. No reason not too - I make enough of it.

My RBC was never even that high - but, I started to feel better after regular blood drops.

[TShoot]

Yep, unfortunately their questionnaire is over-broad. It's where "fibbing" comes in handy.....

I would have if I had known. I actually donated blood a couple of times years ago and they had my name on file. I should have read their website for restrictions before I went but, since I was able to donate years ago, I didn't think twice about it. If I could do it over again, I would have definitely answered that question differently.

[Beethoven]

I would have if I had known. I actually donated blood a couple of times years ago and they had my name on file. I should have read their website for restrictions before I went but, since I was able to donate years ago, I didn't think twice about it. If I could do it over again, I would have definitely answered that question differently.

Same thing with me. They added a category about living overseas and I fell right into it. Had donated for years before.

[Chicagotarsier]

I deal with this issue a lot. The more bone you have, the more RBC you can make, the less test it takes to jack your HCT level.

Things to know.

Aspirin does not thin the blood but rather makes big clumps of blood cells that travel together have a less "static affinity" for each other and lessens the number of big clumps. Thinning the blood would be to increase the ratio of plasma to cells.

Aspirin, Ibuprofen, Advil, Aleve, Tyenol, etc all of these items do the same thing. They each contain the active ingredient of Aspirin. This is the piece of information I just received while going on blood thinning treatment for removal of vericose veins and a very old blood clot.

For me hydrated HCT of 43 is about 45.7 dehydrated due to plasma %. MOST important to stay hydrated.

For me my pre TRT levels were 41.9. I find that when HCT reaches 45 if I give blood I get no hypertension sides from increased RBC. At 47-50 they start to creep in. >50 they cause vision issues. >54 I get nerd rage easily lol. Knowing where you were Pre-TrT can help you understand and determine where yu need to be...now for the pearl of information.

Start looking for the doc that will write phlebotomy scripts. Generally the only physician that can (due to risk management) is a Haematologist. These guys are not going to just write you a script even if they have all your treatment records. They are going to want to do tets to make sure you do not have a genetic afinity to this issue and other crap that is N/A. So it takes a wile to shuffle through the doctors wanting to play Trapper John MD and get to what you want.

CBC is damn cheap out of pocket. Phlebotomy is damn heap out of pocket. You can avoid 99% of all issues on or off cycle during TrT by just monitoring these items. CBC 25-50 bucks. Phelbotomy 25-50 bucks. Take care of your body and your body will take care of you.

[Bonaparte]

I deal with this issue a lot. The more bone you have, the more RBC you can make, the less test it takes to jack your HCT level.

Things to know.

Aspirin does not thin the blood but rather makes big clumps of blood cells that travel together have a less "static affinity" for each other and lessens the number of big clumps. Thinning the blood would be to increase the ratio of plasma to cells.

Aspirin, Ibuprofen, Advil, Aleve, Tyenol, etc all of these items do the same thing. They each contain the active ingredient of Aspirin. This is the piece of information I just received while going on blood thinning treatment for removal of vericose veins and a very old blood clot.

Aspirin decreases the ability of platelets to bind together to form a clot. You don't normally have any "clumps" of blood cells travelling your blood stream, because those would be blood clots, and you would die very fast when they reach your lungs.

Aspirin is an NSAID, but other NSAIDs do not contain acetylsalicylic acid (Aspirin), and they are less potent anti-platelet drugs. And Tylenol (acetominophen) isn't even an NSAID, nor does it possess any significant anti-platelet properties.