TRT without hcg.

[SweepTheLegJohnny]

I take 250mgs of hcg twice a week and I hate it. It winds me up really tight, makes me irritable and I just generally feel like sh-t when I take it. I'd like to continue my protocol without the hcg. And, no, I have no plans to have anyone children do fertility isn't a concern.

[jolter604]

you mean iu's right.well i always wondered if you are on trt for life why use hcg ???

[hawk14dl]

Hcg preserves fertility. Keeps the boys plump. There are actually a ton of other medical benefits, but those are the two that are important to ME.

Op, I find it hard to believe hcg is having those effects on you. It realistically just mimics a natural hormone That is shut down after administering test.

What makes you think the hcg is to blame?

[EquilibriumZ]

I take 250mgs of hcg twice a week and I hate it. It winds me up really tight, makes me irritable and I just generally feel like sh-t when I take it. I'd like to continue my protocol without the hcg. And, no, I have no plans to have anyone children do fertility isn't a concern.

Is your hcg pharmacy grade? Try different brand?

[FONZY007]

Hcg preserves fertility. Keeps the boys plump. There are actually a ton of other medical benefits, but those are the two that are important to ME.

Op, I find it hard to believe hcg is having those effects on you. It realistically just mimics a natural hormone That is shut down after administering test.

What makes you think the hcg is to blame?

Me personally would be the over all well being like feeling normal than the boys

[OingoBoingo]

I take 250mgs of hcg twice a week and I hate it. It winds me up really tight, makes me irritable and I just generally feel like sh-t when I take it. I'd like to continue my protocol without the hcg. And, no, I have no plans to have anyone children do fertility isn't a concern.

Something is wrong.

HCG should increase your Pregnenolone, which should enhance your feelings of well-being. In fact, some doctors supplement Pregnenolone to help with anxiety.

[Beethoven]

Op, what time of day are you pinning ? I missed the morning pin once and pinned in the evening and didn't sleep well that night. Make sure you're pinning in the a.m.

[APIs]

I would speculate it's not the HCG and something else in the OP's TRT protocol is causing the problem...

[J DIESEL3]

I don't believe its the hcg either.. Unless he is really sensitive to his e2 increasing from the hcg.

I personally feel more relaxed and get a feeling of well being on hcg.

[SweepTheLegJohnny]

Nah, I've taken it separately from the testosterone and it makes me anxious and irritable in a hurry.

I'm on 200mgs, of test, split between two 100mg doses each week and .25mgs of anastrozole along with each injection. I also take my 250iu of hcg with each injection.

[sparverius]

HCG made me feel like shit. So does Pregnenolone.
If either increases E2 then that's probably the reason. I am sensitive to E2 level.

[Tullemus33]

I hate hcg like nothing else in this world, one shot hcg with only 250 iu, and hell breaks loose for about 5-7 days, my fuse is not short it is gone, and so are my libido...
It is almost worse than high dose tren ...
Even Low dose tren is better than one shot of 250 iu hcg...
So not everyone is in love with hcg ��

[macmathews]

Hcg preserves fertility. Keeps the boys plump. There are actually a ton of other medical benefits, but those are the two that are important to ME.

Op, I find it hard to believe hcg is having those effects on you. It realistically just mimics a natural hormone That is shut down after administering test.

What makes you think the hcg is to blame?

I have never taken HCG but have read the same from others

[IncreaseMyT]

When men take T for a long time without HCG ejaculate volume goes down and you lose sensitivity in that area when you do ejaculate.

It does have many medical benefits as stated, like progesterone production and it stimulates thyroid adrenals etc

[Proximal]

When men take T for a long time without HCG ejaculate volume goes down and you lose sensitivity in that area when you do ejaculate.

TRT for 7 months with no HCG & that alone was what made me reconsider.

[Rydney]

Only what I was told by my doc when I brought up HCG . It puts you in a diabetic state and keeps your cells from uptaking sugar. If true, and my doc said this so I have to assume it is, that could definitely makes someone feel like shit and amp them up.

[macmathews]

Only what I was told by my doc when I brought up HCG. It puts you in a diabetic state and keeps your cells from uptaking sugar. If true, and my doc said this so I have to assume it is, that could definitely makes someone feel like shit and amp them up.

I can't wait to see the shit storm this will bring

[InternalFire]

I can't wait to see the shit storm this will bring

I wonder if there is any weight to that ... HCG is talked about as a weight loss compound by many, and I am dealing with unimaginable hungers since last few weeks although I have been using HCG along side of my TRT since 6th June this year... if it has some truth to it it may explain why... interested to learn something new

[Rydney]

I wonder if there is any weight to that ... HCG is talked about as a weight loss compound by many, and I am dealing with unimaginable hungers since last few weeks although I have been using HCG along side of my TRT since 6th June this year... if it has some truth to it it may explain why... interested to learn something new

I trust my doc. Now whether it does or does not help keep the balls in play, idk, but he specifically said it was a weight loss product that kept your cells from taking up sugar, and as long as healthy you just piss all that sugar out and hence, lose weight. He did say he was going to read up on how effective it is at keeping things healthy when on T. Right now he put me on Clomid.

[Mr.BB]

Only what I was told by my doc when I brought up HCG. It puts you in a diabetic state and keeps your cells from uptaking sugar. If true, and my doc said this so I have to assume it is, that could definitely makes someone feel like shit and amp them up.

I trust my doc. Now whether it does or does not help keep the balls in play, idk, but he specifically said it was a weight loss product that kept your cells from taking up sugar, and as long as healthy you just piss all that sugar out and hence, lose weight. He did say he was going to read up on how effective it is at keeping things healthy when on T. Right now he put me on Clomid.

Sorry, but as an advice please dont repeat your doc anymore. It really makes you look bad, you sounded like an idiot really.

If you cells cant take sugar you would die. Its actually why diabetics have serious health problems, they dont get thin, they die or have organs malfunction.

HCG does nothing of what you said. HCG diet is a scam.

[MuscleScience]

HCG diet worked great, it was/is a matter of if one could have actually got real HCG.

I put my dad on it, prescription HCG. Got him down 75lbs in about 4 months.

[IncreaseMyT]

Only what I was told by my doc when I brought up HCG. It puts you in a diabetic state and keeps your cells from uptaking sugar. If true, and my doc said this so I have to assume it is, that could definitely makes someone feel like shit and amp them up.

Your doc is a moron.

[IncreaseMyT]

HCG diet worked great, it was/is a matter of if one could have actually got real HCG.

I put my dad on it, prescription HCG. Got him down 75lbs in about 4 months.

Was he on T or just the HCG?

[MuscleScience]

Was he on T or just the HCG?

just HCG , and a pretty strict diet that my girlfriend had him on at the time.

[hammerheart]

HCG is making me more irritable. I've experimented with pregnenolone in the past and worked wonders.

I'm doing them subq - first 250 IU eod then 150 IU ED. I've tried injecting IM and felt even worse. Let's lower dosage a bit...

[Rydney]

Sorry, but as an advice please dont repeat your doc anymore. It really makes you look bad, you sounded like an idiot really.

If you cells cant take sugar you would die. Its actually why diabetics have serious health problems, they dont get thin, they die or have organs malfunction.

HCG does nothing of what you said. HCG diet is a scam.

I guess it's a good thing I don't give a fuck what you think then. I will repeat what an actual medical doctor tells me if it is relevant, if you don't like that, don't read my posts. If you do and respond like an asshole, expect more of the same.

My doc did actually say it was a diet scam because while it does do what he says it does, it's not a good state to put your body in for the purposes of weight loss and the attending caloric restriction people are put on is the real reason they lose weight. It stands to reason that it doesn't inhibit all sugar uptake or yes, people would die, but that is implicit in the fact that people don't die while on HCG so I thought you would understand that... my mistake.

Seriously, contradicting a medical professional makes you look like an idiot. Being an asshole just makes you an asshole.

Now, this is just going to turn into a flame war and I have better things to do, so I'll exit the thread, but the info. I have is good and it's up for anyone who wants to understand the issue better.

Cheers

[Rydney]

Your doc is a moron.

I'll tell him that the sales person from a national cash clinic said this. I'm sure he'll be devastated. Probably throw away that medical degree and his years of working with athletes dealing with just these issues specifically. Just devastated he will be I'm sure.

[macmathews]

HCG is making me more irritable. I've experimented with pregnenolone in the past and worked wonders.

I'm doing them subq - first 250 IU eod then 150 IU ED. I've tried injecting IM and felt even worse. Let's lower dosage a bit...

Hopefully lowering the dose will help.
Your about 50% more than alot of protocols

Mac

[hammerheart]

Trial and error, you know.

[IncreaseMyT]

just HCG, and a pretty strict diet that my girlfriend had him on at the time.

I totally believe he did. I have seen it with my own eyes many times. I just don't think its from the "HCG diet" I think it increased his TT, DHT, Progesterone and E2 and that was responsible for the weight loss.

Was he able to keep it off?

[IncreaseMyT]

Trial and error, you know.

Are you sure thats what it is? In truth all of our patients start at 500 IU 2 times per week.

[MuscleScience]

I totally believe he did. I have seen it with my own eyes many times. I just don't think its from the "HCG diet" I think it increased his TT, DHT, Progesterone and E2 and that was responsible for the weight loss. Was he able to keep it off?

well HCG increases release of LH so I'm sure that's spurred FSH and then T, he kept it off for a couple years. Then got pretty down after his parents got sick. So he gained 30-40 back. He deals with things by eating. He grew up dirt poor and was always hungry growing up. So that's how he copes.

[IncreaseMyT]

I agree, but it only mimics LH It doesn't show on a lab draw.

[MuscleScience]

I agree, but it only mimics LH It doesn't show on a lab draw.

so? The effects the same.

[bullshark99]

It still amazes me that some people think just because a Dr said "something" it's gotta be true??? If that were really the case there would be no need to ever get a second opinion......
An "expert" MD, for example, couple years back I saw told me how he was taking T injections, I asked him his protocol and he said " low dose" only 50 mgs every 3 weeks.... Almost pissed myself with laughter.

[hammerheart]

Are you sure thats what it is? In truth all of our patients start at 500 IU 2 times per week.

What's the difference?

Given the half life of HCG is about 48h an eod protocol seems more reasonable (provided one has the patience). Personally I have no problem pinning ED.

500IU two times a week is 1000IU/w, the same as 250IU EOD, or 150 ED.

[hammerheart]

It still amazes me that some people think just because a Dr said "something" it's gotta be true??? If that were really the case there would be no need to ever get a second opinion......
An "expert" MD, for example, couple years back I saw told me how he was taking T injections, I asked him his protocol and he said " low dose" only 50 mgs every 3 weeks.... Almost pissed myself with laughter.

Worst I've heard of is 100mg PROPIONATE once a month. Literally because TP has a longer t/2 than TE.

[IncreaseMyT]

What's the difference?

Given the half life of HCG is about 48h an eod protocol seems more reasonable (provided one has the patience). Personally I have no problem pinning ED.

500IU two times a week is 1000IU/w, the same as 250IU EOD, or 150 ED.

Well HCG has a biphasic pattern. It stimulates T initially and then the testes go into a refractory period, 72 hours later releasing more T from the same shot. So technically you could do once per week.

I am not sure the schedule matters but personally I am also not sure if less than 500IU in one dose does much to override suppression.

Let me know if that makes sense.

[hammerheart]

Well HCG has a biphasic pattern. It stimulates T initially and then the testes go into a refractory period, 72 hours later releasing more T from the same shot. So technically you could do once per week.

I am not sure the schedule matters but personally I am also not sure if less than 500IU in one dose does much to override suppression.

Let me know if that makes sense.

I think the question here is what we are using HCG for. I already got enough T from TRT, so I don't need the Leydigs to release it . What I want from HCG is 1) to prevent further atrophy 2) to restore physiological levels of T precursors 3) to increase brain pregnenolone.

If it's making me irritable I suppose the boost of inhibitory neurosteroids (I've already explained this elsewhere) saturated the GABA-A receptor potential, so I'm probably taking more than needed.

[IncreaseMyT]

I don't think so. People forget the HCG comes in 2500 and 5000 IU vials cause that was the single dose. So I honestly doubt 100 whatever is doing anything at all.

Remember we can can give two groups different things, one group real meds, one group sugar, they will both experience the exact same effects the first two weeks.