Interesting Nandrolone Study

[kelkel]

Very informative read regarding Deca . Read slow and look up the big words if needed..........ha


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4837307/


(posted in the AAS Q & A as well)


kel

[Proximal]

Nice read Kel, thanks!

[darkcrayz]

that is awesome. thanks. i had heard good things about deca and hrt and was just starting to do some research when i stumbled onto this gem.

[Proximal]

The deca is tempting, but the major down side though to me is the ED. I'll been meaning to hit search and see what members have said about: Can the ED be countered with a strong dose of meds like viagra? Does the ED resolve itself quickly after cessation of using the deca?

[krugerr]

The deca is tempting, but the major down side though to me is the ED. I'll been meaning to hit search and see what members have said about: Can the ED be countered with a strong dose of meds like viagra? Does the ED resolve itself quickly after cessation of using the deca?

If you're using the correct ancillaries, you shouldnt have any ED issues. I never have anyway.

[Mr.BB]

The deca is tempting, but the major down side though to me is the ED. I'll been meaning to hit search and see what members have said about: Can the ED be countered with a strong dose of meds like viagra? Does the ED resolve itself quickly after cessation of using the deca?

Deca ED is a myth from the past, where the lack of knowledge of prolactin, e2, etc, together with no AI's and DA's available, adding the fact that most of time nandrolone was used without test base.

The risk of ED comes with every anabolic steroid , if you dont have the knowledge to control your hormones you can have problems.

For me deca does the exact opposite, gives me too much libido that it gets hard to control.

After 50 if you suffered ED its advised to do a doppler ultrasound to make sure your problems doesnt lie in your vascular health (atherosclerosis). No need to do it in your dick, like they suggest here, do it in a leg. If your leg artery is partially blocked, chances are your dick artery will be the same...

[jasondd1]

5AR's have given me problems in the passed and 120 mg npp per week split into 3 doses with 120 test cyp gave me no problems. but upping it to 200 mg of npp raised progesterone to .4 ng/dl and shut down my dick. I stopped npp, dick came back and will retest progesterone in another week or so.

[Proximal]

Thanks BB & Krugerr. I haven't used Deca nor do I have ED. I just read about the relationship in the article and recall more than one thread regarding Deca-D*ck on the forum in the past. Never read the threads/posts though - guess if I had, I wouldn't have posted above - my bad. Thanks again.

[krugerr]

Apologies for bumping this.

Im sure there was another study posted recently that looked at Deca and Collagen synthesis? Does anyone recall?

[ghettoboyd]

great read kel thanks for posting...

[redz]

Good way to start my morning, good article.

[kelkel]

Thanks for bumping this Krugerr. More should read it.
I can't find the other study you referred to.

[krugerr]

Thanks for bumping this Krugerr. More should read it.
I can't find the other study you referred to.

This one is very good, and I have shared it several times. It refers to another study that comments on collegen synthesis. I thought someone had posted it up fully before. Perhaps I was mistaken!

[kelkel]

They may have. I spend a few minutes on the search engine. I may have missed it.

[krugerr]

They may have. I spend a few minutes on the search engine. I may have missed it.

Me too! Nevermind.

[ghettoboyd]

I will say this about deca when I was on it I felt fantastic even if it was just 150mg per week...my rotator issues never felt better...I have been off deca for at least 6 months and I feel ok but I realize now how much it was helping me...so it time to get some again...this study re affirmed to me why I should start to use it again...

[Mr.BB]

The problem of this article is that it doesnt mention cholesterol. Nandrolone will lower your HDL, so taking year round raises concerns for me.

[krugerr]

@BB

My old man uses 125mg a week on top of his TRT.

He's had a lot of injuries prior and it is helping.
He just got blood work back today and his cholesterol was off, as well as increased H&H and RBC.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hammerheart]

The problem of this article is that it doesnt mention cholesterol. Nandrolone will lower your HDL, so taking year round raises concerns for me.

Even as a low-dose augmentation to TRT?

What it always concerned me about deca is the interaction with aromatase and estrogen receptor, coupled with potential "antiandrogenic" effect from its weak 5-AR metabolite. Sounds definitely bad when your already struggling with E2 control and poor response to TRT. That's why I fancy low-dose tren more eheh.

I'm currently using desogestrel as I need some P4 to feel normal, it does wonders, but I'm switching to 40mg Tren next starting next month.

Last time I run tren it did split my HDL in two, it got as low as 30. Let's see if stacking this low dose does impact lipids as much as bad.

[kelkel]

Last time I run tren it did split my HDL in two, it got as low as 30. Let's see if stacking this low dose does impact lipids as much as bad.

My bet is that it will still crush it, regardless of dose.

[lntense]

I tried this for a while. The joint relief was nice, but even at 100mg combined with my trt dose of test, it has a weird effect on my mood. I have just never responded well to Deca mentally. NPP however is a little better, but I'm not going to pin eod..


Now tren . Tren is the complete opposite, I feel amazing on it. But due to the uncertainty in long term use healthwise, I try and limit my use to 2ish low dose blasts a year. Never exceeding 300mg.

I did do 80-100mg a week of tren with my trt test dose for around 6 months and absolutely loved it. Libido, well being, leanness, strength.. were all increased. But we just don't know wtf is going on with the thinker with long term use of the drug.




But back to Deca, I believe it's a great addition to a trt regimen in low doses. Many guys I know do this especially as they got older. For ME though, I have to stay away lol.

[hammerheart]

My bet is that it will still crush it, regardless of dose.

Noted. I just hope an HDL of 30 isn't too bad, I'm growing concerned I might be pushing things beyond tolerable. I need to do more research.

Do I discern a middle arm section in avi?

I tried this for a while. The joint relief was nice, but even at 100mg combined with my trt dose of test, it has a weird effect on my mood. I have just never responded well to Deca mentally. NPP however is a little better, but I'm not going to pin eod..


Now tren . Tren is the complete opposite, I feel amazing on it. But due to the uncertainty in long term use healthwise, I try and limit my use to 2ish low dose blasts a year. Never exceeding 300mg.

I did do 80-100mg a week of tren with my trt test dose for around 6 months and absolutely loved it. Libido, well being, leanness, strength.. were all increased. But we just don't know wtf is going on with the thinker with long term use of the drug.

But back to Deca, I believe it's a great addition to a trt regimen in low doses. Many guys I know do this especially as they got older. For ME though, I have to stay away lol.

What you report seems consistent with the concern I expressed above. Both Tren and nandrolone are 19-nors and will activate the progesterone receptors. That will have its own cascade of effects on CNS and mood, now if you put the anabolic potential aside what distinguishes the two is the strong androgenic power of Tren, while deca can even have some (relative) anti-androgenic action because of intracellular reduction to dihydronandrolone, which, according to literature, is a very weak androgen.

I've never tried deca but felt awesome on Tren. I lack most of the androgenic response from TRT (well-being, libido, strenght, confidence) and experienced relief from the first time only on some Tren.

About long-term safeness yes your right there are almost no academic studies regarding Tren, other than a couple made on rats. However, there is some nandrolone (MENT also) and the compounds do share some properties. f.ex selective AR activation sparing tissues mostly dependent from 5-AR reduction of testosterone (skin, scalp, prostate).

We have all read the horror stories about Tren compromising the mental health of users so duh, the compound doesn't seem suited to everyone (well I feel awry from Test so to each his one) but it's reasonable to think of the sides are dose dependent. Low-moderate doses are probably a safer addiction than cruising on higher amounts of Test.


This is all imo and purely speculative, I don't really recommend Tren to anyone, especially folks just seeking TRT treatment

[kelkel]

Do I discern a middle arm section in avi?

Left actually. Middle arm's a few feet lower.

[MuscleScience]

Apologies for bumping this.

Im sure there was another study posted recently that looked at Deca and Collagen synthesis? Does anyone recall?

Thanks for bumping, I hadn't read this one. Deca is my go too, like Mr BB said above the ED thing is a myth in my opinion. I have ran deca for upto 10 months at a time and never had and issue with ED or recovery. It is helping me tremendously with my knee surgery recover too. The most Underrated compound out there IMO.

[PT1982]

Glad this was bumped! I really enjoyed that read. I've done deca with TRT for years now. I'm not currently doing this, as I'm doing all I can to start a family, but I really helped me in many ways. Lipids weren't great, but no different than usual for me. I'm on meds for my cholesterol. I brewed a test/deca blend so that I was getting 150mgs of each weekly. It really did help with shoulder and knee pain. Never experienced ed. I think that's from the days of old when it was commonplace for people to run deca solo. With appropriate test levels, you should be fine in that area. I guess prolactin could play some role in it, but I really liked it.

[krugerr]

Kel - perhaps this should be stickied?

[MuscleScience]

Glad this was bumped! I really enjoyed that read. I've done deca with TRT for years now. I'm not currently doing this, as I'm doing all I can to start a family, but I really helped me in many ways. Lipids weren't great, but no different than usual for me. I'm on meds for my cholesterol. I brewed a test/deca blend so that I was getting 150mgs of each weekly. It really did help with shoulder and knee pain. Never experienced ed. I think that's from the days of old when it was commonplace for people to run deca solo. With appropriate test levels, you should be fine in that area. I guess prolactin could play some role in it, but I really liked it.

I run it solo always, my boners are strong like bull!

[lntense]

What you report seems consistent with the concern I expressed above. Both Tren and nandrolone are 19-nors and will activate the progesterone receptors. That will have its own cascade of effects on CNS and mood, now if you put the anabolic potential aside what distinguishes the two is the strong androgenic power of Tren, while deca can even have some (relative) anti-androgenic action because of intracellular reduction to dihydronandrolone, which, according to literature, is a very weak androgen.

I've never tried deca but felt awesome on Tren. I lack most of the androgenic response from TRT (well-being, libido, strenght, confidence) and experienced relief from the first time only on some Tren.

About long-term safeness yes your right there are almost no academic studies regarding Tren, other than a couple made on rats. However, there is some nandrolone (MENT also) and the compounds do share some properties. f.ex selective AR activation sparing tissues mostly dependent from 5-AR reduction of testosterone (skin, scalp, prostate).

We have all read the horror stories about Tren compromising the mental health of users so duh, the compound doesn't seem suited to everyone (well I feel awry from Test so to each his one) but it's reasonable to think of the sides are dose dependent. Low-moderate doses are probably a safer addiction than cruising on higher amounts of Test.


This is all imo and purely speculative, I don't really recommend Tren to anyone, especially folks just seeking TRT treatment

Neither do I. It's effect on brain chemistry makes me so hesitant to even run it again myself, but it always creeps back in on me due to how good I respond and feel on it.


I will add I always have had a DHT compound while on tren. Whether, Proviron or masteron , so that could also be why I feel so good because I'm highly androgenic all around on tren/mast/test.

I could literally fuck my girl, then accidentally rub my leg on the couch then it starts looking good..lol.

On Deca, I can have lots of sex and get hard, but I don't necessarily want to. I have a feeling the results would be different if I were to incorporate a high dose of masteron with deca or even threw in some prami, as pramis sexual side effects are instant for me. Because deca and just test leave my mood feeling so blah..



My bread and butter is 300mg of test, 250mg of tren, and 400mg of mast. With possibly some superdrol or tbol as a kickstart for a few weeks. (Depending on my blood pressure etc..)

[hammerheart]

Neither do I. It's effect on brain chemistry makes me so hesitant to even run it again myself, but it always creeps back in on me due to how good I respond and feel on it.


I will add I always have had a DHT compound while on tren . Whether, Proviron or masteron , so that could also be why I feel so good because I'm highly androgenic all around on tren/mast/test.

I could literally fuck my girl, then accidentally rub my leg on the couch then it starts looking good..lol.

On Deca , I can have lots of sex and get hard, but I don't necessarily want to. I have a feeling the results would be different if I were to incorporate a high dose of masteron with deca or even threw in some prami, as pramis sexual side effects are instant for me. Because deca and just test leave my mood feeling so blah..



My bread and butter is 300mg of test, 250mg of tren, and 400mg of mast. With possibly some superdrol or tbol as a kickstart for a few weeks. (Depending on my blood pressure etc..)

Oh, same feeling on my part. Didn't want to run anymore for that reason - I just feel too good on.

About DHTs, I've tried proviron, winstrol and masteron. The latter makes me feel fever-like sick, while the formers mellow my brain out, it's like taking a benzo, I have even experienced slurred speech on winstrol.

Never tried nandrolone , but DAs works best for me when it comes to sexual sides.

I run it solo always, my boners are strong like bull!

Do you have before and after dexa scan to compare?

Particularly, have you noticed any reduction in lumbar spine density?

[MuscleScience]

Oh, same feeling on my part. Didn't want to run anymore for that reason - I just feel too good on.

About DHTs, I've tried proviron , winstrol and masteron . The latter makes me feel fever-like sick, while the formers mellow my brain out, it's like taking a benzo, I have even experienced slurred speech on winstrol.

Never tried nandrolone , but DAs works best for me when it comes to sexual sides.




Do you have before and after dexa scan to compare?

Particularly, have you noticed any reduction in lumbar spine density?

I do actually, but I wasn't referring to my "bones," I was referring to my "boner," (erections)

[hammerheart]

I do actually, but I wasn't referring to my "bones," I was referring to my "boner," (erections)

Cool. What's the status of your actual bones?

[MuscleScience]

Cool. What's the status of your actual bones?

My Z and T scores are in the 99 percentile.

[Bonaparte]

5AR's have given me problems in the passed and 120 mg npp per week split into 3 doses with 120 test cyp gave me no problems. but upping it to 200 mg of npp raised progesterone to .4 ng/dl and shut down my dick. I stopped npp, dick came back and will retest progesterone in another week or so.

Its prolactin that you need to keep an eye on.

[kelkel]

I do actually, but I wasn't referring to my "bones," I was referring to my "boner," (erections)

No need to be a dick about it......

[hammerheart]

I just misread that.

[kelkel]

That's what made it funny Biz!

[MuscleScience]

I just misread that.

That's what made it funny Biz!

No need to be a dick about it......

[TRA]

No need to be a dick about it......

Don't be so hard-on the guy, kel

[TRA]

Very informative read regarding Deca . Read slow and look up the big words if needed..........ha


https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4837307/


(posted in the AAS Q & A as well)


kel

Great read, thanks. Wonder if this was one of the articles my gf came up with when did her research? Will have to ask her.

However, not to be a naysayer...but...as far as seeing use of deca for TRT in the US in our lifetimes...probably isn't going to happen. I do wonder about the HDL lowering properties as well, as mentioned above.

[MuscleScience]

Great read, thanks. Wonder if this was one of the articles my gf came up with when did her research? Will have to ask her.

However, not to be a naysayer...but...as far as seeing use of deca for TRT in the US in our lifetimes...probably isn't going to happen. I do wonder about the HDL lowering properties as well, as mentioned above.

Potentially could an MD prescribe it off label and have a compounding pharmacy fill it?

I guess it's probably state dependent. Here in Florida HRT clinics are in every other strip mall.