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  1. #1
    BITTAPART2's Avatar
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    PINNACLE..can you help us on this?

    I read a post about LR3 and you mentioned it was only good as a glucose disposal agent because the compound is rendered inneffective when the LR3 was added to it? can you explain this to me please? I noticed I kept all my cycle gains and added 3 lbs during PCT after a year long cycle that was pretty harsh a lot of the time. Can you expound or perhaps offer any citations or refrences for this ? I am considering ordering a few more kits for my next PCT run. thanks BITTA
    Last edited by BITTAPART2; 06-15-2008 at 02:22 PM. Reason: title seemed a little abrasive

  2. #2
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    LR3 added to what? IGF-1 was altered,nothing added. The protein chain/sequence was broken (altered).
    Do you want me to explain how rIGF-1 works? You realize rIGF-1 mimics insulin in it disposes of blood glucose, right? rIGF-1 has nothing to do with lipolysis like some wildly make claim to. How it helps with in a diet is it disposes of blood glucose as to not allow any extra to be stored as fat.
    When people see weight gain on LR3 it is water retention, and or coupled with increased glycogen storage. There is not one bit of evidence showing LR3 IGF-1 can cause increased muscle tissue. Not one piece, nor will there ever be. Gropep has shown LR3 has caused kidney damage (and death) in mice. That alone will stop any human testing.

    You added 3 pounds of what using LR3? Water/fat/ increased glycogen uptake (again, see water).

    Let me ask you this question:
    The FDA approved rIGF-1 for adolescent growth disorders. Why is it the FDA has not conducted studies on LR3 if it supposedly(by some wishful thinking bodybuilders) a great drug for mass?
    Could it possibly be the FDA has spoken with Gropep over any concerns they might have with LR3 IGF-1?
    I spoke in depth with gropep in regards to LR3 several years back. I actually posted some( not all) the e mail correspondences right here on this very board

    Next time you have any questions regarding a topic, you might not want to CALL someone out til you in fact know what YOU are talking about first.

    Pinnacle

  3. #3
    NotSmall is offline English Rudeboy
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    Pinn you've been called out beeeyatch!






  4. #4
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotSmall View Post
    Pinn you've been called out beeeyatch!





    If I only had a dollar every time someone got bent out if shape when I told them LR3 is f*cking useless(as a muscle builder), I'd be sipping Mai Thai"s on a beach on f*cking Tahiti :-)

  5. #5
    NotSmall is offline English Rudeboy
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle View Post
    If I only had a dollar every time someone got bent out if shape when I told them LR3 is f*cking useless(as a muscle builder), I'd be sipping Mai Thai"s on a beach on f*cking Tahiti :-)
    Well next you'll be suggesting that MGF is not the holy grail of bodybuilding you crazy fuck!

  6. #6
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NotSmall View Post
    Well next you'll be suggesting that MGF is not the holy grail of bodybuilding you crazy fuck!
    I'll get to that once I beat off all the LR3 trolls :-)

  7. #7
    PT's Avatar
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    im a die hard igf fan. i love igf, hgh and slin together

  8. #8
    goose is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by pietro75 View Post
    im a die hard igf fan. i love igf, hgh and slin together
    really....How much muscle does IGF give you?

  9. #9
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    lol okay, slow down here.

    Im def no expert. But I was under the impression that IGF-1 won't cause any mass gains, but it creates more muscle cells, thus leading to greater gains in the future.

    ????

    But, Pinn, your saying it doesnt? And can only harm you?

    lol I just wanna get this straight for me, as I was not aware of this, and was planning on running it pretty soon.

  10. #10
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xlxBigSexyxlx View Post
    lol okay, slow down here.

    Im def no expert. But I was under the impression that IGF-1 won't cause any mass gains, but it creates more muscle cells, thus leading to greater gains in the future.

    ????

    But, Pinn, your saying it doesnt? And can only harm you?

    lol I just wanna get this straight for me, as I was not aware of this, and was planning on running it pretty soon.
    Define IGF-1...as in rIGF-1 that has clinical studies showing small increases of muscle mass, or LR3 IGF-1 that has zero clinical trails


    LR3 has been shown in lab conditions, to be harmful in mice. Actually caused kidney failure. It showed some growth in mice. But what good is it if your a dead mouse? Further, human metabolism is significantly different than that of mice. It's foolish for anyone to say it will in fact work in humans, when science has shown countless times in lab conditions drugs that showed promise in animals had no bearing in human studies conducted. FACT! Any scientist will tell you that.

    Bottom line is anyone who says LR3 has had muscle tissue growth has Zero clue about there body and are nothing more than dreamers...wishful thinkers if you will.

    Pinnacle

  11. #11
    xlxBigSexyxlx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle View Post
    Define IGF-1...as in rIGF-1 that has clinical studies showing small increases of muscle mass, or LR3 IGF-1 that has zero clinical trails


    LR3 has been shown in lab conditions, to be harmful in mice. Actually caused kidney failure. It showed some growth in mice. But what good is it if your a dead mouse? Further, human metabolism is significantly different than that of mice. It's foolish for anyone to say it will in fact work in humans, when science has shown countless times in lab conditions drugs that showed promise in animals had no bearing in human studies conducted. FACT! Any scientist will tell you that.

    Bottom line is anyone who says LR3 has had muscle tissue growth has Zero clue about there body and are nothing more than dreamers...wishful thinkers if you will.

    Pinnacle

    nice post.

    I know about the mass gains. But what about the increase in muscle cells, leading to better gains in the future?
    Does this not happen?

    Maybe you answered this, and Im just not understanding.

    lol I don't want to run this anymore. I guess I'm pretty thankful your around haha

  12. #12
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    lol, didnt mean for you to take it as a challende PINN. I appreciate your knowledge which is why I wanted to hear more about what you thought about it. I did read an endocrinology study that showed it caused growth in cancerous prostate tissue so I assumed it did have some credability. I believe someone asked you on the other thread what a cheaper more effective GDA would be? Thnx.BITTA

  13. #13
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xlxBigSexyxlx View Post
    But what about the increase in muscle cells, leading to better gains in the future?
    Does this not happen?


    With actual rIGF-1 and HGH this happens via satellite cells. No f*cking way with LR3 IGF-1. Not in humans....

    Myself along with 2 friends ran multiple experiments that my endocrinologist oversaw. Ranging from frequent blood work done throughout every LR3 cycle, to hydrostatic testing conducting by my sports doctor.
    Not one of us gained any muscle tissue on these experiments doses ranging from 60 mcgs per day to 200 mcgs per day.We all followed the same exact diets, and training protocol. Every one of us are competitive bodybuilders at national level, so we do know how to train , eat and know if something works or not. That's a big difference as opposed to some arm chair quarter back sitting on steroid .com all day saying " I think IGF is great". I say to that/those wishful thinkers. Post up pictures to show what you look like after all these great LR3 cycles. You'll never ever see these as*holes posting pictures because they are full of sh*t!

    Pinnacle

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle View Post
    With actual rIGF-1 and HGH this happens via satellite cells. No f*cking way with LR3 IGF-1. Not in humans....

    Myself along with 2 friends ran multiple experiments that my endocrinologist oversaw. Ranging from frequent blood work done throughout every LR3 cycle, to hydrostatic testing conducting by my sports doctor.
    Not one of us gained any muscle tissue on these experiments doses ranging from 60 mcgs per day to 200 mcgs per day.We all followed the same exact diets, and training protocol. Every one of us are competitive bodybuilders at national level, so we do know how to train , eat and know if something works or not. That's a big difference as opposed to some arm chair quarter back sitting on steroid .com all day saying " I think IGF is great". I say to that/those wishful thinkers. Post up pictures to show what you look like after all these great LR3 cycles. You'll never ever see these as*holes posting pictures because they are full of sh*t!

    Pinnacle

    Okay, that clears it up. Thanks Pinn.

    One more quick question.

    Is rIGF-1 and LR3 IGF-1 the same thing?

    Thanks again.

  15. #15
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xlxBigSexyxlx View Post
    Okay, that clears it up. Thanks Pinn.

    One more quick question.

    Is rIGF-1 and LR3 IGF-1 the same thing?

    Thanks again.

    rIGF-1 (recombinant Insulin -like Growth Factor) is what scientists altered to make LR3 IGF-1
    If that will be all I'll get back to viewing "Teen anal sex" ,which is a Saturday favorite of mine:-)

  16. #16
    xlxBigSexyxlx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle View Post
    rIGF-1 (recombinant Insulin -like Growth Factor) is what scientists altered to make LR3 IGF-1
    If that will be all I'll get back to viewing "Teen anal sex" ,which is a Saturday favorite of mine:-)
    lol, your now off the hot seat and free to go.

    Have fun


    Thanks Pinn

  17. #17
    Narkissos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle View Post
    rIGF-1 (recombinant Insulin -like Growth Factor) is what scientists altered to make LR3 IGF-1
    If that will be all I'll get back to viewing "Teen anal sex" ,which is a Saturday favorite of mine:-)
    Hells yea.

    -CNS

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle View Post
    With actual rIGF-1 and HGH this happens via satellite cells. No f*cking way with LR3 IGF-1. Not in humans....

    Myself along with 2 friends ran multiple experiments that my endocrinologist oversaw. Ranging from frequent blood work done throughout every LR3 cycle, to hydrostatic testing conducting by my sports doctor.
    Not one of us gained any muscle tissue on these experiments doses ranging from 60 mcgs per day to 200 mcgs per day.We all followed the same exact diets, and training protocol. Every one of us are competitive bodybuilders at national level, so we do know how to train , eat and know if something works or not. That's a big difference as opposed to some arm chair quarter back sitting on steroid .com all day saying " I think IGF is great". I say to that/those wishful thinkers. Post up pictures to show what you look like after all these great LR3 cycles. You'll never ever see these as*holes posting pictures because they are full of sh*t!

    Pinnacle
    thats pretty awesome. where are your pics posted up at... i did a quick seach and i didnt see any.... and if you dont mind... what regional contest did you win?... pm it to me if youre tring to keep your identity unknown.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by goose4 View Post
    really....How much muscle does IGF give you?
    how much muscle does it give me? i cant tell you how much muscle an 8 week cycle of npp and prop give me. i perfer to use slin and igf pwo to aid in recovery. obviously igf helps regulate cell growth and development but i definatly can say what i gain because i have never used it alone. i know alot of people that love igf and the results obtained but just like hgh i also know others that swear it dosnt produce a single positive result. every body reacts differently to different drugs. from what i can gather it is not possible to really say how well it works or dosnt because it all opinions. the only license to conduct human testing is held by a biopharmaceutical company called tercica and is limited to children suffering from growth faliure due to igf deficiency. tests in rats show that igf-1 LR3 can increase the extent of muscle repair and is responsible for hyperplasia which most of us know is more muscle fibers. now i can go on and on about the things i read about igf but personally i dont belive everything because even though rat testing is a neccesity to move on to human testing there is a huge diffrence between the make up of our bodies and that of a rat so i doubt the results are the same. all i know is that igf seems to work for me. i have never gained large amounts of muscle with it like i do with test but i compare the results somewhat to that of hgh. this is an opinion and nothing i wrote is a fact and i realize that after reading PINN's post about the bloodwork being done i realize that i need to do alot more studying and talk to alot more people about this. obviously i cant atgue with pinn's post because he has the bloodwork to back it up so all i can do is find out as much more info as i can about tests run and make up my own conclusion as to whether its benifical for me or not. i want to thank everyone who posted here (especially pinn) because it has been extremly helpful and educational for me and i enjoy debates like this very much because it is how people learn.
    Last edited by PT; 06-15-2008 at 11:52 AM.

  20. #20
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    I am very certain that igf promotes muscle growth - like gh. after all hgh launches the release of igf in the liver and igf promotes the processes on cellular levels.

    the point is that the chinese are sending whatever labeled as igf/hgh abd ppl assess igf/hgh though they never had anything close to the stuff in their hands.

    there is only one human grade pharmaceutical igf product world wide on the market, it is extremely expensive and fragile. it can only last 1 hour out of the freezer - even if the chinese would have been able to copy it, how can the chinese ship this crap 3 days or more without cooling system? do you think they invented a new igf formula that is stable and market it to 1/10 of the price to the bodybuilding community? it s bullshit. I don t get it that ppl are still buying this chinese crap...

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by BITTAPART2 View Post
    I read a post about LR3 and you mentioned it was only good as a glucose disposal agent because the compound is rendered inneffective when the LR3 was added to it? can you explain this to me please? I noticed I kept all my cycle gains and added 3 lbs during PCT after a year long cycle that was pretty harsh a lot of the time. Can you expound or perhaps offer any citations or refrences for this ? I am considering ordering a few more kits for my next PCT run. thanks BITTA
    this is my original post.....minus the ...oops on the title, I dont take shit back I say or dont ever say "oops" as I am not 45 years old and a homemaker that would say some shit like...oops. I dont retract my question tht was seemingly misconstrued and taken as an attack, it was out of respect for Pinns knowledge, so editing my shit made someone feel funny/cool/happy whatever emotions are able to be felt over a steroid message board, great. Again wasnt trying to challenge anyone, just looking for information so I wouldndt waste money. never made any claims to have more extensive knowlegde than pinn does on the issue. I assume I should title felt altercational? I dunno. if anyone has any lab tests etc they could post Id appreciate it, for now I am just believing pinn had ran his own study overseen by an endo, and just decided to vaugely share his conclusion for people spending upwards 2 bills a mg. thanks

  22. #22
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pietro75 View Post
    how much muscle does it give me? i cant tell you how much muscle an 8 week cycle of npp and prop give me. i perfer to use slin and igf pwo to aid in recovery. obviously igf helps regulate cell growth and development but i definatly can say what i gain because i have never used it alone. i know alot of people that love igf and the results obtained but just like hgh i also know others that swear it dosnt produce a single positive result. every body reacts differently to different drugs. from what i can gather it is not possible to really say how well it works or dosnt because it all opinions. the only license to conduct human testing is held by a biopharmaceutical company called tercica and is limited to children suffering from growth faliure due to igf deficiency. tests in rats show that igf-1 LR3 can increase the extent of muscle repair and is responsible for hyperplasia which mosy know is more muscle fibers. now i can go on and on about the things i read about igf but personally i dont belive everything because even though rat testing is a neccesity to move on to human training there is a huge diffrence between the make up of our bodies and that of a rat so i doubt the results are the same. all i know is that igf seems to work for me. i have never gained large amounts of muscle with it like i do with test but i compare the results somewhat to that of hgh. this is an opinion and nothing i wrote is a fact and i realize that after reading PINN's post about the bloodwork being done i realize that i need to do alot more studying and talk to alot more people about this. obviously i cant atgue with pinn's post because he has the bloodwork to back it up so all i can do is find out as much more info as i can about tests run and make up my own conclusion as to whether its benifical for me or not. i want to thank everyone who posted here (especially pinn) because it has been extremly helpful and educational for me and i enjoy debates like this very much because it is how people learn.
    Good post. I respect your honesty and open mindedness

  23. #23
    Pinnacle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ***xxx*** View Post
    I am very certain that igf promotes muscle growth - like gh. after all hgh launches the release of igf in the liver and igf promotes the processes on cellular levels.

    the point is that the chinese are sending whatever labeled as igf/hgh abd ppl assess igf/hgh though they never had anything close to the stuff in their hands.

    there is only one human grade pharmaceutical igf product world wide on the market, it is extremely expensive and fragile. it can only last 1 hour out of the freezer - even if the chinese would have been able to copy it, how can the chinese ship this crap 3 days or more without cooling system? do you think they invented a new igf formula that is stable and market it to 1/10 of the price to the bodybuilding community? it s bullshit. I don t get it that ppl are still buying this chinese crap...
    I completely agree that actual rIGF-1 produces muscle tissue. LR3 IGF-1? No ****ing way...sorry to disappoint those who having been blindly pissing away money on that stuff.
    You'd be far better off spending 200 a month on a kit of blue tops as opposed to LRshit IGF-1

    I know exactly what my IGF levels are at 2 iu's-4 iu's- 6 iu's -8 iu's -10 iu's

    6 and above is where IGF levels really start to soar. That's what you want!

  24. #24
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    I really do think this is a great thread.

    Watching Pinn take on the world lol....

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by xlxBigSexyxlx View Post


    I really do think this is a great thread.

    Watching Pinn take on the world lol....
    LOL...not taking anybody on.Years back on this board I was envolved in huge debates over LRshit IGF-1. I have a huge Q & A thread elswewhere, so I'm used to being asked questions. I just didn't care how this thread was titled. It looked like an attack. It certainly could have been worded differently.

    I'll be monitoring the thread while viewing: "Teen cum guzzlers". A sunday favorite of mine.

  26. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle View Post
    LOL...not taking anybody on.Years back on this board I was envolved in huge debates over LRshit IGF-1. I have a huge Q & A thread elswewhere, so I'm used to being asked questions. I just didn't care how this thread was titled. It looked like an attack. It certainly could have been worded differently.

    I'll be monitoring the thread while viewing: "Teen cum guzzlers". A sunday favorite of mine.
    i agree pinn. when i read the title i was surprised. maybe the author didnt mean it to be an attack but it definatly should of been worded differently or at the very least changed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle View Post
    LOL...not taking anybody on.Years back on this board I was envolved in huge debates over LRshit IGF-1. I have a huge Q & A thread elswewhere, so I'm used to being asked questions. I just didn't care how this thread was titled. It looked like an attack. It certainly could have been worded differently.

    I'll be monitoring the thread while viewing: "Teen cum guzzlers". A sunday favorite of mine.

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by pietro75 View Post
    i agree pinn. when i read the title i was surprised. maybe the author didnt mean it to be an attack but it definatly should of been worded differently or at the very least changed
    holy shit guys, its been changed jeez, and Im the one on tren right now. Relax everyone, i changed the title, im not calling anyone to meet me at the flagpole for a buddy revel showdown at 3pm or anything, nothing but respect for PINN here.

  29. #29
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    I think this thread should end just about now.

    -Gear

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gear View Post
    I think this thread should end just about now.

    -Gear
    LOL


    in one more time before the lock:-)

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    Hey Gear, whats your take on all this?

    Besides Pinn's addiction to teen porn

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    Personally I don't see why it should end... I think it has good info.

    No unnecessary personal cracks..

    And.. there was mention of porn.

    What better type of thread exists?

    -CNS

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by xlxBigSexyxlx View Post
    Besides Pinn's addiction to teen porn
    At least I'm versatile. One day it's anal teen porn, the next teen cum guzzlers.
    A fine example is tonight being Monday. This is where I bring a touch of culture in the mix. "Horny Asian assholes" is top bill on the menu this evening. Of course I can't end the evening til viewing "Asian Cream pies". It just wouldn't be right.

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    Quote Originally Posted by xlxBigSexyxlx View Post
    Hey Gear, whats your take on all this?

    Besides Pinn's addiction to teen porn
    I've never rated LR3 too highly either, but I wouldn't say it does absolutely fk all because I did experience some minor fat loss and I did harden up a bit while using IGF-1 LR3. As for gaining muscle, it would be difficult to say how much muscle I gained from LR3 alone because everytime I used it I also used AAS and insulin . I guess you would need to use LR3 alone to know excatly what it does.

    I have given up on using IGF all together because every time I added it to my AAS cycle the end result would be just about the same as my previous cycle results without IGF. Like I said, it does deliver some minor gains but I wouldn't say it's worth what it is. If 2mg of IGF was $50 I'd probably use it more often.

    -Gear

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    Quote Originally Posted by *Narkissos* View Post
    Personally I don't see why it should end... I think it has good info.
    I felt things started to get heated between members so that's why I said this thread should end before it becomes a battlefield. I guess if everyone behaves then we'll keep on going.

    -Gear

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    Horny Asian Assholes? LOL. Pinn where the hell do you come up with these names

    -Gear

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    lower the damn test dosage Pinn

  38. #38
    goose is offline Banned
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    Quote Originally Posted by plzr8 View Post
    lower the damn test dosage Pinn
    My old friend pinn is on low does when he is on cycle,around 6 G per week

    As my old mate says; P USSYS need not apply!!!!!

  39. #39
    BITTAPART2's Avatar
    BITTAPART2 is offline Senior Member
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    took the words outa my mouth^^^^

    anyway, I think this thread is actually very good and may have saved a lot of people some cash. I think an in depth discussion of LR3 is definatly well overdue as peptides are fethcing some serious cash right now especially with the semi-dry market. I will clarify for the last time, I was asking Pinn to come shine a light on this issue and hopefully open a discussion about LR3, the title may have seemed a bit abrasive I can see that, but having no prior issues with Pinn, in fact having asked him many questions via PMs in the past, I didnt think it would be misconstrued. But I am just going to run a GH/slin cycle instead of waste my money on the LR3. There is not one shred of concrete evidence about muscle tissue growth from LR3, I think I may have even been using slin the past runs I had with LR3, because my diet was so clean i wouldnt have gained fat anyway, that and the pumps were similar and i did feel a bit hypo on training days at 100mcg

  40. #40
    Bluerain is offline Female Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gear View Post
    I felt things started to get heated between members so that's why I said this thread should end before it becomes a battlefield. I guess if everyone behaves then we'll keep on going.

    -Gear
    Hi Gear

    So you felt things were getting heated and jumped in to keep it on track..I agree totally..but what about this ?(See quote below)


    It's uncalled for this type of language in this forum. I come to this section to read up on HGH IGF SLIN not about porn involving teenage girls and smut. It's a shame because Pinn has good info to offer and i have to read thru his post then come upon this crap with underage girls and smut.

    A few heated words and you jump in ..that's great..No flaming is enforced also but when it comes to this shiat ( Vile posts ) it's OK .

    Yes porn is out there but this isn't the place for these type of posts. I would like to see this type of posting enforced also as this isn't the section where it belongs.

    I can't believe you draw the line on other things and this nonsense gets by without a word from you or any other mod .

    This isn't the only post of this nature from him.

    Thankyou for your time.
    Blue

    Quote Originally Posted by Pinnacle View Post
    At least I'm versatile. One day it's anal teen porn, the next teen cum guzzlers.
    A fine example is tonight being Monday. This is where I bring a touch of culture in the mix. "Horny Asian assholes" is top bill on the menu this evening. Of course I can't end the evening til viewing "Asian Cream pies". It just wouldn't be right.

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