Made a discovery about GH and Peptides...

[Hondarocks]

This is probably going to go against everything anyone has said about GH and peptides but I will make a post about it
When I started with the GH about 2 months ago, I was having great gains in strength and size. It was like a miracle.
Then I started administering the peptides before the gh btw 10-30 minutes before pining GH. My gains stopped, I started gaining body fat and sleep was not as good and I lost muscular weight and gained fat weight.. I am sitting at 190 right now, I expect going back to pining GH its self I will get to 200lbs within a month.

So I experimented. When I pin the GH and the peptides in the morning at 4am, its hard for me to go back to sleep. When I pin GH by itself I fall right back asleep.

Secondly, I was not keeping my bf as low and did not look as vascular pinning GH and peptides together. Third I was not having any normal sides from GH such as swelling in the hands and lethargic behavior.

I think all this happened because when you pin the peptides and GH at the same time you body thinks it all natural and treats it as such. I dont think natural GH is a strong as recombinant DNA.

Either one of two things is happening, the peptides are not that great, which I doubt because I got from a good company, or secondly and probably the later, the GH pulse from the peptides followed by the synthetic is not as effective as the synthetic by itself as the body treats it all as a natural release.

Therefore I will no longer be pinning the peptides and gh together. I will space them out 3-5 hours apart like you are supposed to do anyways with any of these injections.

Morning:4am Synthetic
Late Morning: 8-9am Peptides
Post Workout:Synthetic
Pre dinner:Peptides.

I think this is the most effective way so you are still keeping your natrual alive while getting all the benefits from the Synthetic

[956Vette]

Creative concept and plan Honda. Did you gain initial water weight from your synthetic HGH (the miracle)?

Which peptides were used? CJC-1295 which can at best leave users bloated (poor choice if that was indeed used & for those onlookers)
I wonder about your experience with sleep/energy from the peptide usage - can certainly become complex quick!

[SUPERMAN5039]

Honda, In one of the abstracts I posted from the Journal of Endo + Metab, one of their study trials they injected the syn gh 2 hours prior to the ghrp. As of yesterday I started it that way. I've been on the gh for 6 days @ 2 iu, and I started yesterday with the peptides 200 mcgs. (ghrp-2/cjc-1295 w/o dac)So now I"m getting 4 iu daily. I pinned the peptides pre bed and I slept like crap. With the gh only I was sleeping good. I'm going to change the pre bed peptides to late afternoon pre dinner on non workout days. I will work both up to 6 iu daily over the next 3 months. I'm at a good size imo, 6'2 230 12% bf, so I'm not looking to bulk but to lean up my lean muscle mass, if that makes sense. I'm going to follow this protocol and see where it takes me. I will also pin the syn gh post workout on training days followed by the peptides 2 hrs later. I'm also taking the L-arginine (4 gms) fasting, upon waking, 30 minutes pre syn gh inject. In another article I found it states to do 10 gms with the gh, however, I'm already getting sides from the L-arginine, mainly diareaha. My thinking here is if I'm getting the sides then hopefully for now I can maintain the arginine @ 4 gms daily. Even if I'm not getting any help with gh pulses from the arginine, the arginine has other good effects on the body. So as far as I can see it's a win win with the arginine. The problem is I can't find any pure powder arginine for a reasonable price or without other ingrediants included. I have it in pill form right now at 1 gm per pill.

This is all trial and error until you find what clicks for you. Good luck.

[Hondarocks]

No water weight gained from synthetic. Very lean. what do you recommend besides CJC?

[Hondarocks]

Honda, In one of the abstracts I posted from the Journal of Endo + Metab, one of their study trials they injected the syn gh 2 hours prior to the ghrp. As of yesterday I started it that way. I've been on the gh for 6 days @ 2 iu, and I started yesterday with the peptides 200 mcgs. (ghrp-2/cjc-1295 w/o dac)So now I"m getting 4 iu daily. I pinned the peptides pre bed and I slept like crap. With the gh only I was sleeping good. I'm going to change the pre bed peptides to late afternoon pre dinner on non workout days. I will work both up to 6 iu daily over the next 3 months. I'm at a good size imo, 6'2 230 12% bf, so I'm not looking to bulk but to lean up my lean muscle mass, if that makes sense. I'm going to follow this protocol and see where it takes me. I will also pin the syn gh post workout on training days followed by the peptides 2 hrs later. I'm also taking the L-arginine (4 gms) fasting, upon waking, 30 minutes pre syn gh inject. In another article I found it states to do 10 gms with the gh, however, I'm already getting sides from the L-arginine, mainly diareaha. My thinking here is if I'm getting the sides then hopefully for now I can maintain the arginine @ 4 gms daily. Even if I'm not getting any help with gh pulses from the arginine, the arginine has other good effects on the body. So as far as I can see it's a win win with the arginine. The problem is I can't find any pure powder arginine for a reasonable price or without other ingrediants included. I have it in pill form right now at 1 gm per pill.

This is all trial and error until you find what clicks for you. Good luck.

Dump the arginine and just take USP Labs BCAA's. Taking argine by its self has nasty sides as you mentioned. I would take arginine by its self even if it made my dick 12" long I think to much arginine causes for head growth. I would watch out.

[SUPERMAN5039]

No water weight gained from synthetic. Very lean. what do you recommend besides CJC?

Per a post on another thread, there is no such thing as CJC-1295 w/o dac. Only mod grf1-29. The poster did state that if it is being introduced as CJC then the supplier doesn't know what they have. But on the endo site they specifially state cjc-1295 and mod grf both 1-29 and 44. Here is an abstract from the site in ref the CJC. It's unclear if this is cjc w/o dac. I haven't found any studies on the site that state a gh bleed with cjc with dac , as mentioned on other threads, but I will continue to research it. Ok I just saw this while researching the CJC 1295 on the endo site. In the abstract it does state with DAC-GRF. My assumption here is that the MOD GRF 1-29 is in fact CJC 1295 with DAC for now. I did a search on the site for CJC 1295 w/o dac and the same abstracts came up for both.

Healthy Adults

Sam L. Teichman, Ann Neale, Betty Lawrence, Catherine Gagnon, Jean-Paul Castaigne and Lawrence A. Frohman
WinPharm Associates (S.L.T., A.N.), Alamo, California 94507; ConjuChem, Inc. (B.L., C.G., J.-P.C.), Montréal, Québéc, Canada; and Section of Endocrinology, Department of Medicine, University of Illinois (L.A.F.), Chicago, Illinois 60612
Address all correspondence and requests for reprints to: Dr. Lawrence A. Frohman, Section of Endocrinology, Department of Medicine, University of Illinois, 1819 West Polk Street (M/C 640), Chicago, Illinois 60612. E-mail: frohman{at}uic.edu.
Abstract
Context: Therapeutic use of GHRH to enhance GH secretion is limited by its short duration of action.

Objective: The objective of this study was to examine the pharmacokinetic profile, pharmacodynamic effects, and safety of CJC-1295, a long-acting GHRH analog.

Design: The study design was two randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind, ascending dose trials with durations of 28 and 49 d.

Setting: The study was performed at two investigational sites.

Participants: Healthy subjects, ages 21–61 yr, were studied.

Interventions: CJC-1295 or placebo was administered sc in one of four ascending single doses in the first study and in two or three weekly or biweekly doses in the second study.

Main Outcome Measures: The main outcome measures were peak concentrations and area under the curve of GH and IGF-I; standard pharmacokinetic parameters were used for CJC-1295.

Results: After a single injection of CJC-1295, there were dose-dependent increases in mean plasma GH concentrations by 2- to 10-fold for 6 d or more and in mean plasma IGF-I concentrations by 1.5- to 3-fold for 9–11 d. The estimated half-life of CJC-1295 was 5.8–8.1 d. After multiple CJC-1295 doses, mean IGF-I levels remained above baseline for up to 28 d. No serious adverse reactions were reported.

Conclusions: Subcutaneous administration of CJC-1295 resulted in sustained, dose-dependent increases in GH and IGF-I levels in healthy adults and was safe and relatively well tolerated, particularly at doses of 30 or 60 μg/kg. There was evidence of a cumulative effect after multiple doses. These data support the potential utility of CJC-1295 as a therapeutic agent.


A synthetically modified form of GHRH has been linked to a reactive chemical that enables binding to endogenous serum albumin after sc administration. The chemical structure of this compound, drug affinity complex-GH-releasing factor (DAC-GRF; CJC-1295, ConjuChem, Inc., Montréal, Canada) is shown in Fig. 1⇓. The core therapeutic moiety is GHRH-(1–29)NH2, which contains the full biological activity of GHRH-(1–44)NH2 modified by substitution of four amino acids that serve to render the compound more resistant to proteolytic cleavage (herein called GRF). GRF is linked by the amino acid, lysine, to a reactive chemical [maleimidoproprionic acid (MPA)] that binds to unpaired thiol (sulfhydryl) groups. The predominant free thiol group available for binding after parenteral administration is the single unpaired cysteine (cysteine 34) in serum albumin. At least 90% of CJC-1295 binds covalently to albumin in this fashion, with trace amounts found bound to fibrinogen and IgG. No other chemical species have been found bound to DAC-GRF after administration (data on file, ConjuChem, Inc.). This binding extends the half-life of the active pharmacophore, resulting in a markedly prolonged duration of action in several animal species (8). Moreover, studies in both dogs and pigs indicate that physiological GH secretion is maintained, and IGF-I levels are enhanced for several days after a single administration.

[SUPERMAN5039]

Dump the arginine and just take USP Labs BCAA's. Taking argine by its self has nasty sides as you mentioned. I would take arginine by its self even if it made my dick 12" long I think to much arginine causes for head growth. I would watch out.

bump

[Hondarocks]

Ok back from the gym. Had a mind blowing pump from hell.
I am sold. Peptides dimmish the effects of Gh so much so to the point where they effect the workouts. Stoping all the positive effects of gh such as improved focus, energy, and therapeutic benefits.
When doing the peps and gh at the same time I was sucking wind at the gym no matter what I did.
Now I am blowing through the workouts, with no loss in O2, as well and getting a pump after doing 1 set of anything.
I probably wasted about $350 of GH now because the peptides diminished my gh output. But at least I figured this out early.
Synthetic is completely able to give you everything you need without additional help from peptides.
I am back to feeling amazing. Now I am a firm believer you need neither t4 or peptides or steroids to gain from GH.
It is simply not necessary, my weight has already gone back to 192lbs which is my holding weight till I go to 200lbs.
I will still keep experimenting with the peptides just not when pinning gh and not doing it at the same time. Waiting 2-5 hours
Going to go back to 1.8iu's a day because that is where I was getting the most benefits in strength and size.

[dec11]

This is probably going to go against everything anyone has said about GH and peptides but I will make a post about it
When I started with the GH about 2 months ago, I was having great gains in strength and size. It was like a miracle.
Then I started administering the peptides before the gh btw 10-30 minutes before pining GH. My gains stopped, I started gaining body fat and sleep was not as good and I lost muscular weight and gained fat weight.. I am sitting at 190 right now, I expect going back to pining GH its self I will get to 200lbs within a month.

So I experimented. When I pin the GH and the peptides in the morning at 4am, its hard for me to go back to sleep. When I pin GH by itself I fall right back asleep.

Secondly, I was not keeping my bf as low and did not look as vascular pinning GH and peptides together. Third I was not having any normal sides from GH such as swelling in the hands and lethargic behavior.

I think all this happened because when you pin the peptides and GH at the same time you body thinks it all natural and treats it as such. I dont think natural GH is a strong as recombinant DNA.

Either one of two things is happening, the peptides are not that great, which I doubt because I got from a good company, or secondly and probably the later, the GH pulse from the peptides followed by the synthetic is not as effective as the synthetic by itself as the body treats it all as a natural release.

Therefore I will no longer be pinning the peptides and gh together. I will space them out 3-5 hours apart like you are supposed to do anyways with any of these injections.

Morning:4am Synthetic
Late Morning: 8-9am Peptides
Post Workout:Synthetic
Pre dinner:Peptides.

I think this is the most effective way so you are still keeping your natrual alive while getting all the benefits from the Synthetic

there is no way you are gaining great size and strength in only 2mths of hgh

[gixxerboy1]

there is no way you are gaining great size and strength in only 2mths of hgh

i agree. you either changed your diet and workout also or were very out of shape when you started.
GH doesnt work that fast or drastic

[dec11]

i agree. you either changed your diet and workout also or were very out of shape when you started.
GH doesnt work that fast or drastic

lol, rem this? the guy is a dreamer

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...t=#post5760159

[Hondarocks]

Yea i remember you too, your the asshat.

[dec11]

Yea i remember you too, your the asshat.

yep if im an asshat for pointing out BS, then thats correct and you did not make 15lbs of muscle in under 2mths, you would not do that in one year without AAS.

misleading and false information is no asset to these forums and of no benefit to the other members, who are trying to educate themselves. maybe you should think about that.....

[956Vette]

lol, rem this? the guy is a dreamer

Thanks dec

Honda can come back and make sensational headlines after 25lbs - good luck to him

[dec11]

Thanks dec

Honda can come back and make sensational headlines after 25lbs - good luck to him

i concur.......

although, he is more likely to make 'phenomenal' headlines lol

[jimmyinkedup]

I found this about the L-Arginine http://www.b**********.com/health-su...de-effect.html

In accordence with the rules can you please edit your post and remove the link. If you wish to cut and paste the information into your post thats fine but links of this type are not permitted. Thanks!

[Hondarocks]

Hey dude go post in the original thread that you linked to if you want to trash me, this thread is about GH and peptides and helping people out. Thanks for ruining the thread, I hope you feel better about yourself.
Seems you broke the rules anyways.

[dec11]

Hey dude go post in the original thread that you linked to if you want to trash me, this thread is about GH and peptides and helping people out. Thanks for ruining the thread, I hope you feel better about yourself.
Seems you broke the rules anyways.

haha, the thread is just lies so im thinking no-one will be upset.

[956Vette]

this thread is about GH and peptides and helping people

Your posting/statistics exclude you as a candidate/expert. Nothing but love. Women, men with less muscle mass and/or androgens...young or obese folks...peptides are not for you.

[Hondarocks]

Your posting/statistics exclude you as a candidate/expert. Nothing but love. Women, men with less muscle mass and/or androgens...young or obese folks...peptides are not for you.

How so? Peptides can work for anyone if they use them right.

[Hondarocks]

i agree. you either changed your diet and workout also or were very out of shape when you started.
GH doesnt work that fast or drastic

Yea your right I changed my diet, and started bulking, but the GH I know for a fact kept me from getting fat while doing this and gaining unwanted bf.

[gixxerboy1]

Yea your right I changed my diet, and started bulking, but the GH I know for a fact kept me from getting fat while doing this and gaining unwanted bf.

possibly but the gh didnt make you gain 25lbs. its impossible. And you present it like that in a few post

[Hondarocks]

Ok well I didn't mean to come off like that, I made other posts about my diet and exercise. Not all of them in this subforum.
But I started at 170lbs and I am at 193-195lbs right now, so I did gain weight and I didn't gain any fat, I have less fat than before so something worked.

[gixxerboy1]

You have gotten good results and im sure the gh didnt hurt. But gh is a long slow process and especially you only were on 1 iu for a while. I'm sure the the diet and exercise was the big difference. But good job on results

[dec11]

Ok well I didn't mean to come off like that, I made other posts about my diet and exercise. Not all of them in this subforum.
But I started at 170lbs and I am at 193-195lbs right now, so I did gain weight and I didn't gain any fat, I have less fat than before so something worked.

the ave. natural lifter is lucky to gain 12lbs per year of muscle and anyone in this game for along time knows this. now please tell us how did you gain 23-25lbs of muscle between when you joined in sept and now? better still, as we already have a pic of you on that other thread, why not stick up another in the same stance?

i promise, i'll eat my keyboard if we see 25lbs

[Hondarocks]

Thanks for the support and kind words, trying to get back on topic, what do you think about what I said about the peptides and GH? Superman also posted some research articles that backed what I said. I find it interesting that I had this experience and notice such a hige difference between pinning the GH and peptides at the same time vs. spacing them out a few hours.

[Hondarocks]

Before



After

Calves 17"
Quads 23"
Chest 41.5"
Arms 16"
Waist 34"

[gixxerboy1]

Thanks for the support and kind words, trying to get back on topic, what do you think about what I said about the peptides and GH? Superman also posted some research articles that backed what I said. I find it interesting that I had this experience and notice such a hige difference between pinning the GH and peptides at the same time vs. spacing them out a few hours.

honestly dont know i never used peptides

[Hondarocks]

Dec11 Pics are up cant wait to hear what you think!!

[SlimmerMe]

IMO you looked leaner in the first photo and more bloated in the last 2...

[Hondarocks]

IMO you looked leaner in the first photo and more bloated in the last 2...

Yea well I gained some weight but my legs got a lot stronger but can rep out 225, 25 times now on squats now without problems. Can do 225 on bench 4 sets of 8 which I never could do at 170. Also got screwed up with the peptides and t4, its going to take a few more days to get back on track.

[SlimmerMe]

also you might not need to up your dose as high as you are planning as I mentioned something to this affect from the VERY beginning especially since you are on TOP notch grade although pharma is supposed to be pharma never the less what you are taking many here would LOVE to have......my .02

[Hondarocks]

also you might not need to up your dose as high as you are planning as I mentioned something to this affect from the VERY beginning especially since you are on TOP notch grade although pharma is supposed to be pharma never the less what you are taking many here would LOVE to have......my .02

Agreed I am going to stay at 2-4'ius a day for now.

[dec11]

Dec11 Pics are up cant wait to hear what you think!!

sweet jesus, does the baseball cap weigh 25lbs? it certainly isnt on your body

[SUPERMAN5039]

In accordence with the rules can you please edit your post and remove the link. If you wish to cut and paste the information into your post thats fine but links of this type are not permitted. Thanks!

Hey sorry dude.. just posting the sides of L-arginine useage in response to HONDA stating it's use will cause your head to grow.. No worries.

[jimmyinkedup]

Hey sorry dude.. just posting the sides of L-arginine useage in response to HONDA stating it's use will cause your head to grow.. No worries.

Thats fine - however you need to edit the link out of that post. If you wish to cut and paste the article in your post thats fine..but the link needs to go. Simply come to the thread..click on edit on that post and kindly remove the link. Thanks. No Worries.

[SUPERMAN5039]

Thats fine - however you need to edit the link out of that post. If you wish to cut and paste the article in your post thats fine..but the link needs to go. Simply come to the thread..click on edit on that post and kindly remove the link. Thanks. No Worries.

I tried to cut and paste the info but for some reason it wouldn't. Won't happen again..

[jimmyinkedup]

^^^^Its all good...thank you.....

[Hondarocks]

sweet jesus, does the baseball cap weigh 25lbs? it certainly isnt on your body

Ok Dr. Dumb Shit how much do I weigh?

[noserider]

You are wasting your money on gh. It's not for you.

T-prop
Anavar
Tren Hex

That's a money cycle for your build. Btw, you look much better in the before pics, seriously.