chiropractor? do they work? med insurance?

[MuscleScience]

do family docs do a residency???

[BrokenBricks]

do family docs do a residency???

Absolutely. Three years (The shortest there is) after medical school. Most importantly, they actually see sick people. It cannot be overstated the necessity of have contact with actual honest to god sick patients. 80 hours a week 50 weeks a year for 3 years. Current grads take some heat now from the older doctors because it used to be more like 120 hours a week.

What is most important is not the time, but the quality of the encounter. Not that any DC would claim knowledge of this subject, but how many pictures of a gun shot wound to the chest do you have to have to look at to be able to treat a dying person with a gunshot wound. I would be delighted to take some of these anti-doctor posters into my emergency room trauma bay *for ten minutes* and watch them lose their minds.

[MuscleScience]

Absolutely. Three years (The shortest there is) after medical school. Most importantly, they actually see sick people. It cannot be overstated the necessity of have contact with actual honest to god sick patients. 80 hours a week 50 weeks a year for 3 years. Current grads take some heat now from the older doctors because it used to be more like 120 hours a week.

What is most important is not the time, but the quality of the encounter. Not that any DC would claim knowledge of this subject, but how many pictures of a gun shot wound to the chest do you have to have to look at to be able to treat a dying person with a gunshot wound. I would be delighted to take some of these anti-doctor posters into my emergency room trauma bay *for ten minutes* and watch them lose their minds.

No offense man, but you seem extremely bitter.

[BrokenBricks]

No offense man, but you seem extremely bitter.

It really burns me up to see someone pretending to be a doctor. It is unethical.

[MuscleScience]

It really burns me up to see someone pretending to be a doctor. It is unethical.

I guess thats a matter of opinion. When i get my Ph.D i will be somewhat offended if someone doesnt address me as Doctor whether he is an MD or not.

[thegodfather]

I guess thats a matter of opinion. When i get my Ph.D i will be somewhat offended if someone doesnt address me as Doctor whether he is an MD or not.

Agreed...But I think its important to differentiate the setting the word is being used in. A Ph.D is NOT to be called "Doctor" in a clinical setting such as a hospital. It is confusing to patients and that person is not qualified to diagnose and treat patients, only to do research. However, in an academic setting it would be highly inappropriate to not address you as Doctor, as it is a title you have rightfully earned...

I suppose in a teaching/university hospital, a Ph.D might be called 'Doctor' by other attendings/residents/students/nurses etc, but still not by patients.

In a casual/social setting, it is HIGHLY inappropriate to introduce yourself as "Dr.________,"whether you be an MD/DO/Ph.d/DC/DPM/DMD, and implies that you are trying to establish superiority over the person you are talking to. Basically, if thats how you introduce yourself in non-clinical and non-academic settings, YOUR A JERKOFF.

[MuscleScience]

Agreed...But I think its important to differentiate the setting the word is being used in. A Ph.D is NOT to be called "Doctor" in a clinical setting such as a hospital. It is confusing to patients and that person is not qualified to diagnose and treat patients, only to do research. However, in an academic setting it would be highly inappropriate to not address you as Doctor, as it is a title you have rightfully earned...

I suppose in a teaching/university hospital, a Ph.D might be called 'Doctor' by other attendings/residents/students/nurses etc, but still not by patients.

In a casual/social setting, it is HIGHLY inappropriate to introduce yourself as "Dr.________,"whether you be an MD/DO/Ph.d/DC/DPM/DMD, and implies that you are trying to establish superiority over the person you are talking to. Basically, if thats how you introduce yourself in non-clinical and non-academic settings, YOUR A JERKOFF.

I tend to agree, unless said Ph.D is an expert in a particular field of a medical profession. Clinical Pathologist that are not MD's but Ph.D's that work in hospitals are addressed as doctors. They could look and practically any cell in the body and determine the pathology that is presented before them. That in effect is diagnosis is it not.

I totally agree with the causal setting thing though.

[Doc.Sust]

.

In a casual/social setting, it is HIGHLY inappropriate to introduce yourself as "Dr.________,"whether you be an MD/DO/Ph.d/DC/DPM/DMD, and implies that you are trying to establish superiority over the person you are talking to. Basically, if thats how you introduce yourself in non-clinical and non-academic settings, YOUR A JERKOFF.

LOL! agreed my friend.

[thegodfather]

It really burns me up to see someone pretending to be a doctor. It is unethical.

DMD/DDS/DPM are also allowed to call themselves physicians/doctors under most states laws. It is not specifically reserved for MD/DO. Certainly you would not say that a DMD who has undergone a 7 year residency for OMFS is not a "Doctor." Neither would you say that a DPM who has done a lengthy residency in vascular surgery as not being a Dr/Physician.

In fact, if an MD/DO wants to go into OMFS, they have to do an accelerated 3 year program at an accredited Dental school.

[towtheline]

so broken bricks you are a resident? So if I understand you correctly you have examined the class loads and boards that chiro's take? You compare trauma room gushot wounds to torticollis? I think you are missing the point. Your arrogance is what will send your future patients to a DC. You will bash the profession, not even knowing curriculum and then the patient will go the said DC and be amazed at the time spent with the patient and the knowledge of the musculoskeletal system. I speak from experience. Last month I had a car accident. Was hit almost head on by a vehicle that was driving 40-50 mph the police report said. Went to urgent care, got asked a few question, BP taken and told to go home and ice my neck. I said hmm, my left arm is numb, and the MD said if not better go to GP in a few days. Went right over to my chiro and X-rays, ultrasound, put on 2 days light duty and full exam. Orthopedic type stuff, Range of motion, reflexes, pinwheel sensations and given a full half hour of stretches to perform as well as lifts to perform and avoid. I will end there. Who was the better DOCTOR here? WHo had the ability to diagnose me? And amazing the MD charged me over $650, and the entire DC visit was $250. I think you are one of those guys that get so caught up in your research and pufffed out chest that you forget your job; helping patients. At least I hope I am wrong. I have been around the healthcare profession in many consulting capacities and you new residents have the ability to close the gap and actually recognize the value of what used to be called alternative haelthcare. You guys and gals better wake up though, because your future patients are taking charge of their own health, and it isn't coming in for a 2 minute exam and told to mask the pain with vicodin. Good luck to you.

[BrokenBricks]

so broken bricks you are a resident?

Right.

So if I understand you correctly you have examined the class loads and boards that chiro's take?

As best I can. I don't know a a tremendous amount about the boards they take. Though considering the *dramatic* differences in what even people in the same field think is correct I cannot imagine they are too rigorous, as it would make it impossible for people of very different opinions to all have a reasonable chance at passing.

You compare trauma room gushot wounds to torticollis?

Where did I mention torticollis? If DC only limited themselves to treating musculoskeletal problems there would not be so much resistance. Apart from the fact that their entire philosophy is demonstrably inconsistent with *any* science the main issue is that they attempt to treat conditions they have no experience with.

I think you are missing the point. Your arrogance is what will send your future patients to a DC.

Can you provide an example of my arrogance?

You will bash the profession, not even knowing curriculum and then the patient will go the said DC and be amazed at the time spent with the patient and the knowledge of the musculoskeletal system.

I have been very generous in my posts. I have no problem with DC who restrict themselves to MS symptoms and are quick to refer anything else to a physician. This is a rarity in chiropractic.

I speak from experience. Last month I had a car accident. Was hit almost head on by a vehicle that was driving 40-50 mph the police report said. Went to urgent care, got asked a few question, BP taken and told to go home and ice my neck. I said hmm, my left arm is numb, and the MD said if not better go to GP in a few days. Went right over to my chiro and X-rays, ultrasound, put on 2 days light duty and full exam. Orthopedic type stuff, Range of motion, reflexes, pinwheel sensations and given a full half hour of stretches to perform as well as lifts to perform and avoid. I will end there. Who was the better DOCTOR here? WHo had the ability to diagnose me? And amazing the MD charged me over $650, and the entire DC visit was $250. I think you are one of those guys that get so caught up in your research and pufffed out chest that you forget your job; helping patients.

I am sorry you had a bad experience. Understand that the ER is not a place to go to have a muscle strain treated. If you come into the ER after having a car accident what happens to you is going to depend on how you look. Clearly you did not have an emergency condition and it was appropriate to send you home. The ER employs people with an amazing set of skills all working together to treat life threatening conditions. Using that resource to spend an hour of one on one time with you is not efficient and would not have benefited you. You seem to have strained your neck and a few days rest is the treatment. Pain meds can make you more comfortable while you wait on your body to repair itself. You could have played on a PS3, knitted a sweater or seen a chiropractor....the fact that this pain improved 2-3 days after the event is evidence that, like all muscle stains, time heals.

No doctor would send you home with a numb arm after an accident. You mean it felt funny or different.

I am shocked you were charged so little. You are lucky you did not get your neck CT'd if you were complaining of *any* arm weakness, much less "numb".

What you have to understand is that seeing a doctor in a location staffed with a half dozen nurses is an expensive thing merely becuase of the costs of creating that environment. The fact that in your case it was totally unnecessary does not change the economics of the situation. You were evaluated by a highly trained group. You can be confident that serious disease was ruled out. But that expertise is not cheap. A guy on the street might have looked at you and said "Eh, you will be fine" and only charged you five bucks...doesn't mean you got anything of value. The quality of the opinion is what holds the value.

Next time maybe you should either not call 911, or if they were called for you, refuse to be taken. Simple. Go see a chiropractor if you like. I'm willing to bet you wont do that if you ever have a frightening symptom.

I wish we could make everyone happy, but sometimes doing what is best for the patient is not what makes them happiest.

[BrokenBricks]

DMD/DDS/DPM are also allowed to call themselves physicians/doctors under most states laws. It is not specifically reserved for MD/DO. Certainly you would not say that a DMD who has undergone a 7 year residency for OMFS is not a "Doctor." Neither would you say that a DPM who has done a lengthy residency in vascular surgery as not being a Dr/Physician.

In fact, if an MD/DO wants to go into OMFS, they have to do an accelerated 3 year program at an accredited Dental school.

You are right. Dentists and OMFS are referred to as doctor in a clinical setting and appropriately so. The podiatrists I cannot speak to because I don't know much about their scope of practice and education.