starting first cycle ever - TELL ME WHY IM STUPID

**winksahoy** · 01-25-2013, 09:53 PM

age: 20
height: 5'10
weight: 167

bodyfat% - 15

bench max - 195

i plan on starting my first cycle of anything soon:

30mg tbol ed for 4 weeks
milk thistle through out

i want to pct after but my friend keeps trying to convince me that it isnt necessary for an oral like tbol especially that low, but i want to anyway just to be safe

TELL ME WHY IM DUMB

**Soar** · 01-25-2013, 10:17 PM

You are dumb because you're 20 (that's way to young) and you're going to do a oral only cycle, also very dumb.

Oh and welcome lol

**winksahoy** · 01-25-2013, 10:34 PM

Well I do turn 21 in a few days.
Also I was thinking of oral only since it's my first cycle and following up with test and var next time

**< <Samson> >** · 01-25-2013, 11:28 PM

I don't want to try to talk you out of anything. But, you need to progress a bit on your own before hitting the sauce.

It will be a waste, guaranteed.

Good luck!

**MuscleInk** · 01-25-2013, 11:28 PM

At 21 you risk a lot of things. First, you will shut down your HTPA which controls your neuroendocrine system and circulating hormones. These hormones control sleep, mood, appetite & digestion, memory, sex drive, your immune system and more. Steroids of any kind will impair that system and you may not recover from that. An impaired HTPA could have many long term effects: weight (fat) gain, loss of appetite, depression, no/low libido (sex drive), erectile dysfunction and more.

Second, if the cycle is run poorly, you could face numerous long term risks: hypercholesterolemia, hyperlipidemia, enlarged prostate, stroke, heart disease, cancer, diabetes, hypertension, tachycardia, and other syndromes.

**mbwood** · 01-25-2013, 11:36 PM

Originally Posted by Soar

You are dumb because you're 20 (that's way to young) and you're going to do a oral only cycle, also very dumb.

Oh and welcome lol

20 isn't way too young lol

**MuscleInk** · 01-25-2013, 11:49 PM

Originally Posted by mbwood

20 isn't way too young lol

So tell us then.....at what age does the neuroendocrine system reach full maturation such that any measure of interventional endocrinology would be safe as a form of therapy or recreational use?

Perhaps you could enlighten us with all that you have learned at 19 years of age.

**mbwood** · 01-26-2013, 12:06 AM

Originally Posted by MuscleInk

So tell us then.....at what age does the neuroendocrine system reach full maturation such that any measure of interventional endocrinology would be safe as a form of therapy or recreational use?

Perhaps you could enlighten us with all that you have learned at 19 years of age.

Just because the endocrine system isn't done developing doesn't mean that exogenous hormones will cause permanent complications. You know this.

Hell the medical community isn't afraid to give 18 year olds exogenous testosterone . Search "jama network effect of testosterone supplementation" in google. There's an example of a study using 18+ individuals.

There's plenty of studies like this where 18 year old men are treated just like any other.

There's something to be said about exogenous hormones in pre pubertal or mid pubertal males. There's something else when we are talking about a fricken MAN. I've just seen no real evidence showing permanent changes in the endocrine systems of men from intelligent AAS use as a young adult. I always hear people talk about it but I see no evidence.

**MuscleInk** · 01-26-2013, 01:12 AM

Originally Posted by mbwood

Just because the endocrine system isn't done developing doesn't mean that exogenous hormones will cause permanent complications. You know this.

Hell the medical community isn't afraid to give 18 year olds exogenous testosterone . Search "jama network effect of testosterone supplementation" in google. There's an example of a study using 18+ individuals.

There's plenty of studies like this where 18 year old men are treated just like any other.

There's something to be said about exogenous hormones in pre pubertal or mid pubertal males. There's something else when we are talking about a fricken MAN. I've just seen no real evidence showing permanent changes in the endocrine systems of men from intelligent AAS use as a young adult. I always hear people talk about it but I see no evidence.

Search the threads here, you'll find plenty of guys your age crying about how badly they screwed themselves up and wished they had listened when told to wait.

I'm a physician. Ignorant choices made by guys your age keep me in business and pay for my lifestyle. So have at it smart guy. You think you know more than the collective minds here, knock yourself out and mess with your hormone system. I'll see you in clinic and I hope your mommy and daddy have a good insurance plan because my billable hours aren't cheap.

Good luck screwing yourself up.

See you real soon.

**winksahoy** · 01-26-2013, 02:42 AM

Well musclesInk you have definitely convinced me to wait. I don't want to mess me up when I could simply wait 3 years. I mean hell I've only been working out for 3 months and have increased my strength by 75 percent already.

I just see too many big guys, and I'm genetically unfortunate enough that even at 15 percent body fat I don't have the slightest trade of abs. I'm short waisted too so I will never be blessed in the stomach area. However tbol and what not will get me cut and abs and stronger even. It's just really tempting especially since I have a cycle of tbol on hand and a cycle of dbol as well that I picked up for curiosity.

But regardless, abs is not worth messing up my body's chemicals permanently. Ill wait. Ill try anyway lol

**Back In Black** · 01-26-2013, 02:45 AM

Originally Posted by winksahoy

Well musclesInk you have definitely convinced me to wait. I don't want to mess me up when I could simply wait 3 years. I mean hell I've only been working out for 3 months and have increased my strength by 75 percent already.

I just see too many big guys, and I'm genetically unfortunate enough that even at 15 percent body fat I don't have the slightest trade of abs. I'm short waisted too so I will never be blessed in the stomach area. However tbol and what not will get me cut and abs and stronger even. It's just really tempting especially since I have a cycle of tbol on hand and a cycle of dbol as well that I picked up for curiosity.

But regardless, abs is not worth messing up my body's chemicals permanently. Ill wait. Ill try anyway lol

No offence, but I doubt you're genetically unfortunate to have 15% bodyfat. You might wanna have your diet critiqued, after reading the stickies, in the nutrition section.

**winksahoy** · 01-26-2013, 02:56 AM

Okay you are right in a way. I've always been blessed to not gain much weight despite how badly I eat. I used to consider myself skinny fat, because with clothes on I looked skinny but without a shirt you could tell how awfully out of shape I was. My fat mainly builds on my breast area and sides, so those are the last to go.
After doing many weeks of research and experimentation on diet, I would like to believe my current diet is as good as it can get. Yet I still can't get abs. I look the best I've ever looked, am stronger and quicker and more agile then ever.
But my friends who aren't in as good performance shape as me still look like they are in much better shape. With abs, nice pecs, lean looking bodies.
But I can out lift them, our sprint them, hold hand stands incredibly longer (I break dance, they can not...) but my physical appearance just seemed to have stopped improving at "skinny/slightly muscular)

I just am tired of looking like the out of shape one of my group of friends around girls at the beach :/

**X2006ibmgto** · 01-26-2013, 03:27 AM

Believe me tbol and dbol wont get you abs. It takes time man, I'm 2 years in and I'm just now barley starting to see abs. I also was a fat guy. Your only 3 months in, you have a long time. Steroids aren't a magic pill.

**al87** · 01-26-2013, 09:31 AM

You should definitely start with a cycle that has testosterone included. And make sure you got some post cycle theraoy on hand. Are you from Alberta?

**Back In Black** · 01-26-2013, 09:33 AM

Originally Posted by al87

You should definitely start with a cycle that has testosterone included. And make sure you got some post cycle theraoy on hand. Are you from Alberta?

He's 20 years old. Please don't encourage him to cycle, it's not what we recommend around here at that age!

**PistolPete33** · 01-26-2013, 09:48 AM

Thank god they make Viagra because all these young kids are going to need it for a lifetime of having a limp noodle. The young generation is so F-ing lazy and always looking for the easy way out. Training for only 3 months and already want to take AAS. Hard work is the only way to achieve things.

**winksahoy** · 01-26-2013, 10:45 AM

Okay okay ill later on in life consider myself one of the wiser kids who heeded your warnings. Because I have decided not to start anything.

Could I start when I'm 22? My gf will be back after 2
Years in next summer, wouldn't mind getting pumped up when I then 22 in march next year right before she few
Back, since we broke up due to the distance and said we would get back together one day, but who knows

**ElectraMaddox** · 01-26-2013, 11:15 AM

Originally Posted by winksahoy

Okay okay ill later on in life consider myself one of the wiser kids who heeded your warnings. Because I have decided not to start anything.

Could I start when I'm 22? My gf will be back after 2
Years in next summer, wouldn't mind getting pumped up when I then 22 in march next year right before she few
Back, since we broke up due to the distance and said we would get back together one day, but who knows

Do you wanna juice bc you broke up? Jk... I normally get tattoos when that happens jk