My Before and Progress photos, please critique

**dave84** · 11-04-2009, 01:48 AM

In the first photo ive put red lines to measure width, ive then put them into second photo to see size change. In the other photo i decided to tense up that was taken last week.

So what you guys reckon? Is that a good improvement? Second photo is 38 days later into a 3 month cycle

***El Diablo*** · 11-04-2009, 01:56 AM

Did u run anything?

**dave84** · 11-04-2009, 02:03 AM

test enanthate 500 per week
deca 200 per week
dianabol first 28 days at 20mg ed

Gained 21 pounds so far and have been eating clean.

**dave84** · 11-04-2009, 02:04 AM

My total plan is to run deca 10 weeks, test 12 weeks then maintain for 3 months after cycle to try and keep as much as possible before cutting.

**Vitruvian-Man** · 11-04-2009, 02:15 AM

I don't want to sound condescending bro... but honestly I would NEVER have guessed you even workout regularly... let alone, currently on a 3 compound stack.

Post your diet. I don't believe it's 100%.

**dave84** · 11-04-2009, 02:22 AM

Well i dont workout regularly, didnt at least. Ill tell you the story! Basically Ive been in awful shape most my lift, last year I was nearly 200 pounds and that was just being overweight. So ive spent the last year slowly working out in phases dropping that weight. The 3 months prior to this diet I dropped around 20 pounds of it. I did want to drop another stone before starting cycle but my buddy really wanted to get started so we could be training partners. Anyhow so yeh I know I shouldnt really be doing steroids but ive been working very hard since I started to make the most of it. Working out 5 times a week and one of those days is cardio and stretching day. Its a mass building program im following mainly comprising of big compound lifts. My diet is quite clean because I dont want to gain too much more fat. An example would be

Breakfast, oats, whey, cocoa powder, peanut butter, 0 fat milk SHAKE

Meal 2, meat and rice or potato

Meal 3 meat and rice or potato

Meal 4, post workout shake same as breakfast with added banana and sugar

Meal 5 protein source and rice

Bedtime whey in milk

Works out around 3000 cals, aiming for more from now on.

So do you guys think my progress so far is ok? Like average or poor or what? Since that first photo?

**Wayne55** · 11-04-2009, 02:44 AM

Well done for gettin into it, and I dont want to be mean, but I really cant see much/any difference. Those red lines dont help at all btw

**dave84** · 11-04-2009, 02:46 AM

Well if you look at the recent red lines, the one on arm shows the arm is bigger than the red line meaning the arm has grown since first pic, the one on waist is bigger than waist meaning the waist has shrank!

Sooo what do you guys think I should do to improve if you really cant see a difference? I mean should you expect to see much of a difference in this time frame when im carrying fat like this or is this really a poor result so far?

***El Diablo*** · 11-04-2009, 02:47 AM

U need to run an extensive PCT regime, then u need to train for atleast 24/36 months naturally, eating right and living in the Kitchen and gym, then only u need to start thinking about juice, dont be a fool about it, u can achieve much more without any AAS.
It doesnt seem asif u actually train right/eat right.

***El Diablo*** · 11-04-2009, 02:49 AM

Poor result. Spend some time in the diet Section on this forum and dedicate more time educating yourself than medicating yourself.

**dave84** · 11-04-2009, 02:54 AM

Sorry but coming off is not an option. Ive started, im almost at the half way point so im going to continue and would like help and critiques to make the most of it. So please if youre going to start telling me to stop taking steroids or flame me for being on them id rather you did not post

If you want to tell me how I can improve things though please do!!! Would have been nice if someone could have said id made an ok improvement so far i mean my muscles are bigger and my waist is smaller and I thought that was quite good for 5 weeks!

Thanks

**dave84** · 11-04-2009, 02:59 AM

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/matt94.htm thats the training regime ive been doing

***El Diablo*** · 11-04-2009, 03:01 AM

Originally Posted by dave84

Sorry but coming off is not an option. Ive started, im almost at the half way point so im going to continue and would like help and critiques to make the most of it. So please if youre going to start telling me to stop taking steroids or flame me for being on them id rather you did not post

If you want to tell me how I can improve things though please do!!! Would have been nice if someone could have said id made an ok improvement so far i mean my muscles are bigger and my waist is smaller and I thought that was quite good for 5 weeks!

Thanks

Would u rather have liked the honest truth or someone telling rubbish.
Okay u look rather outstanding mate, ur ready to compete in the superheavies. One day i want to look up to you, coz u know ur sh*t..

**Lfs2shrt2bsml** · 11-04-2009, 03:03 AM

you could have made better improvements naturally in five weeks... and coming off is an option save what gear you have and use it in 3-5 years when your ready.. i actually thought the first picture looked more muscular.. eat like a bird and youll look like a bird... add more calories

**Noles12** · 11-04-2009, 03:06 AM

no where near ready to start and i think your scale is off if it is really showing 21 pound gain between those two pics. You were no where near ready for steroids . Truthfully halfway through this first cycle you still look a long time away from considering aas

**dave84** · 11-04-2009, 03:49 AM

Im only wanting to gain close to a stone of quality muscle then get more cut so im not totally skinny. I figured I could do this within 9 months if i used some juice so i can be ready to train mma here in thailand while im here. Right now just not fit enough though. Only can stay here 2 years and id like to get a full year of training mma and the first year getting my body into decent shape and strong. Ldiablo i do want honest oppinions im just saying, I am not stopping the juice and the flames and shit is not what i wanna here, I wanna here consctructive criticism of how I can make the most from my cycle. Im getting really good strength gains each week in the gym so i know i am putting on muscle but i apreciate everyones honest advice saying i dont look noticably better... Just confused as to what to do now... do I keep doing what im doing which is making me stronger and heavier and maybe the high bf is making it hard to tell the diffrence??? Or do I completely change my routine or try piling in an extra thousand calories a day. Hrmmm i think im gonna up the calories! Anymore advice on how I can improve is much apreciated

**Monster87** · 11-04-2009, 04:24 AM

Honestly I think your diet is crap. You have carbs in 4 out of 5 meals; you keep spiking your insulin like that throughout the day you'll never get lean. Your bedtime meal shouldn't be just whey protein, you should have casein protein or something that takes longer to digest. And you should be eating 7 meals a day to keep your metabolism revved up. Just my .02.

**Okinawa_Power** · 11-04-2009, 04:26 AM

Originally Posted by dave84

test enanthate 500 per week
deca 200 per week
dianabol first 28 days at 20mg ed

Gained 21 pounds so far and have been eating clean.

Brother it does not look like you gained 21 pounds.....I just don't see it. Listen to the guys on this forum they know what they are talking about. With the cycle you are running you should be getting huge, however if your diet is not in check it does not matter how much AAS you are taking you will get nowhere and waste your money.....Just my .02

***El Diablo*** · 11-04-2009, 04:37 AM

U look fatter in the after photo. Well done, is that the look that u are going for?

**Okinawa_Power** · 11-04-2009, 04:44 AM

Maybe you should check to see if your gear is real or if you are injecting water into yourself......

**terraj** · 11-04-2009, 04:52 AM

I'm not giving you shit....but without a base you will find it hard to keep your gains.

Man, just read your diet....now I am giving you shit! It sucks!

Was a famed man once who said "educate before you medicate"

Stick around, ask questions, use the seach function and you can start heading in the right direction.

Peace

Terraj

**Kibble** · 11-04-2009, 04:56 AM

I am in on this lol. Yeah brother you definately did not gain 21lbs. I am looking at the pictures and I cannot see it wither. I also see no added definition. You know what... I wish I had your body. Because if I did, I could show everybody how to add mass (not lean). It is SO damn easy without aas. All you should be taking is your multivitamin, fish oil, protein and creatine. With those alone, you can add solid mass. So you decide to stay on gear for years to come... Well when you are finished, you will look just like you do not, only with excess skin. Get your diet better (I understand it can't be perfect for everybody), and definately head over to the training section. I am not going to get onto you about having bodyfat because I have it myself. Bro you need NATURAL mass to build on. Why build a mansion on a fragile foundation?

**dave84** · 11-04-2009, 05:04 AM

Not sure whats so bad about my diet :P Maybe I need to be more specific then maybe you can be a little more specific about why its bad

Ok each meal consists of around 40 grams protein from meat, whey, eggs or milk. I dont have access to cassien im in thailand and supplements are hard to come by but i did manage to get a 20kg bag of whey protein isolate. Cottage cheese is another thats hard to get here its way overpriced, works out about 3 dollars for cup of cottage cheese. So ive been having half a pint of 0 fat milk before bed with a small amount of whey figuring its possibly my best option.

So 5-6 meals each consisting of around 40 grams protein and generally either 2 cups of rice or 2 average sized baking potatos. I tend to have the potatos the meal before training since their high gi and figured the insulin may be better used around training time.

Then again my post workout shake a lot of sugar to provoke an insulin response after training. Then again I have high carbs and protein meal before my night time shake. Im going to read about now to see how I could improve on this. Honestly im not too worried about a bit of fat gain as long as i get at least = muscle gain, fat is easy to lose. A nutritionist i know actually said if he was bulking he would even eat large amounts of carbs before he goes to sleep!! So i did start doing that a bit lately sometimes as well as well as having the glass of milk and whey.

**dave84** · 11-04-2009, 05:08 AM

http://www.fitday.com/fitness/Public...l?Owner=Pritch recent diary i did of my days food. Im going to try upping the calories to 4000

**terraj** · 11-04-2009, 05:50 AM

Watch these movies to start with.
http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=323516

Go to the diet section please.

**dave84** · 11-04-2009, 06:15 AM

Reading there now. So im wrong in thinking if i eat around 300 grams of protein and a higher ratio of carbs to fat and keep calories over 3000 calories a day ill gain muscle along with training? Like in a nutshell? Also keeping high gi foods to ppwo meal and post workout. Then increase my healthy fat intakes to replace lost carbs.

**dave84** · 11-04-2009, 06:17 AM

ps thanks for those video links watching now

**Rockin Z28** · 11-04-2009, 06:41 AM

im not sure your LISTED diet is the problem, i think its your ACTUAL diet, i can post what i eat in make believe land all day long and in actuality be pounding fast food and beers constantly..not saying you dont eat good now because i have no way of knowing, but i mean what made you think you were ready to start juicing? were you just like hey i think im gonna start working out and i cant work out without running juice? your gonna have to finish your cycle because its already underway and the money is spent, but please never consider juice again unless you can lean up and put on 20 pounds of solid mass naturally

**Rockin Z28** · 11-04-2009, 06:43 AM

p.s. i say this to your own benefit and not to dog you, i myself have wasted a good cycle with a shitty diet so i speak from experience

**dave84** · 11-04-2009, 07:45 AM

Ok well thanks again guys, im studying those videos and ill come up with a new, simple to follow and hopefully correct macro diet and post it up later

***FireGuy*** · 11-04-2009, 07:53 AM

Originally Posted by Monster87

Honestly I think your diet is crap. You have carbs in 4 out of 5 meals; you keep spiking your insulin like that throughout the day you'll never get lean. Your bedtime meal shouldn't be just whey protein, you should have casein protein or something that takes longer to digest. And you should be eating 7 meals a day to keep your metabolism revved up. Just my .02.

Having carbs with your meals does not spike your insulin levels througout the day. I eat carbs with EVERY meal except the last one. If you would like to comment further on how you arrived at this conclusion I want to hear it.

***El Diablo*** · 11-04-2009, 07:58 AM

^^^ HaHaHa!.. now ur in sh*t Monster

**dave84** · 11-04-2009, 08:12 AM

Hrmm while youre here fireguy I dont suppose you could give any tips on improving my diet? I mean I know I need to increase protein for sure but does my carb intake actually sound ok? Simple carbs only in post workout shake and low carbs before bed and most carbs through the day from oats, rice and potatos pre workout? Maybe lower my carbs after post workout shake and opt for higher protein for my 2nd last meal with low carbs.

***FireGuy*** · 11-04-2009, 08:15 AM

Originally Posted by dave84

Hrmm while youre here fireguy I dont suppose you could give any tips on improving my diet? I mean I know I need to increase protein for sure but does my carb intake actually sound ok? Simple carbs only in post workout shake and low carbs before bed and most carbs through the day from oats, rice and potatos pre workout? Maybe lower my carbs after post workout shake and opt for higher protein for my 2nd last meal with low carbs.

If you want some help post it in the diet section with macro's for each meal as well as the totals. I have a feeling you are not weighing your food and just making an estimate. This can have you off by a 1,000 calories a day very easily.

***FireGuy*** · 11-04-2009, 08:17 AM

Originally Posted by *El Diablo*

^^^ HaHaHa!.. now ur in sh*t Monster

He is not in sh*t, I just want to hear how he arrived at this conclusion. 30-50 grams of low GI carbs with your meals is not going to spike your insulin levels. I have done several shows where my carbs never went below 250grams per day and was still able to hit 5-6% BF.

**dave84** · 11-04-2009, 08:19 AM

Youre feeling was correct... the force is strong with you

Ok will do later tonight, I wanna post up what I think ive been eating and how i think maybe I can improve then hopefully get some feedback. Honestly though ive just been guessing weights and i can easily tell whats bigger than a 4 oz steak, chicken breast etc, tuna in can obvious, protein powder big scoop is 35 gramish, for rice i just eat as much as i can stomach per sitting, potatos i stick in around 2 medium sized per serving. I feel full constantly and i have been growing and getting stronger so assumed i was doing ok :P Anyway enough babbling, will post up detailed later.

**dave84** · 11-04-2009, 11:33 AM

well i watched those videos and came up with macros based on his calculations... they dont sound correct though :S dare I say! Basically I think hes a little vague on the carb and fat calculations but he does explain its a person thing. He does however specify no more than 100 grams of carbs or fats for an endomorph ie me a natural chubster and also says that i should eat around 2g per pound of weight in protein. This basically adds up calorie wise to 2700... for bodybuilding this just goes against everything ive learned so far about needing more calories to build etc. Have I made a mistake here? Just trying to get some kinda clarification before I come up with a diet plan.