civilian deaths

[Banned1]

They are just defending THEIR country..

They stole it.

Its like a bank robber that robs a bank for 125,000 dollars. And then when cops fight the robber to get the money back.

Some people (like you) would call the robbers action, "defending HIS money".

[kis55]

Anyone?

LOL. Very good point. Arafat, the "Father" of palestine, was born in Egypt. He was an Egyptian.

[Banned1]

Also just because 39+ countries do not reconize Israel, does not mean, it doesnt exist. Its a matter of prespective, I guess.

[Banned1]

LOL. Very good point. Arafat, the "Father" of palestine, was born in Egypt. He was an Egyptian.

Ben-Gurion, the "Father" of Israel, was born in Poland. He was Polish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion

Let us play this game, lets go.

[kis55]

Ben-Gurion, the "Father" of Israel, was born in Poland. He was Polish.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Ben-Gurion

Let us play this game, lets go.

You do bring up a relevant point, lets see if we can break it down some. The implication in my post, and in yours has to do with the ethnic identity of the individual as it relates to the "state" each claims.

Now, Israel was recreated to be a homeland for the Jews, a safehaven, etc. Ben Gurion is Jewish, therefore, he, and the rest, claim Israel.

Now, Arafat, after even you admit he was not born in "palestine", is Egyptian, or, we could even be more general and just say he was arab. Now, as an Arab, where, pray tell, could an Arab go to claim a homeland, hmmmmmmmmm. Anywhere??? Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, etc. etc.

Or, perhaps we could even be more general and say Arafat was muslim. Now, where could a muslim go to claim a homeland. Hmmmmmm. Do I even need to list all the muslim countries in the world? If you need help listing them, a good reference point is to just add up all the countries that currently have war/terrorism going on there.

P.S. I'll give you a heads up, you are walking into a trap here. I anxiously await your response.

[RA]

They stole it.

Its like a bank robber that robs a bank for 125,000 dollars. And then when cops fight the robber to get the money back.

Some people (like you) would call the robbers action, "defending HIS money".

By that logic the indians should be asking for their land back...or better yet strapping bombs to their kids and trying to blow us up..

Grow up peter pan, count chocula..Id like to be pimps from Oakland or Cowboys from Arizona but this isnt halloween.


If anyone gets that Ill give em props.

[RA]

LOL. Very good point. Arafat, the "Father" of palestine, was born in Egypt. He was an Egyptian.

Exactly. These "opressed people" were being led by a guy that wasnt even from there!!

[Banned2]

You do bring up a relevant point, lets see if we can break it down some. The implication in my post, and in yours has to do with the ethnic identity of the individual as it relates to the "state" each claims.

Now, Israel was recreated to be a homeland for the Jews, a safehaven, etc. Ben Gurion is Jewish, therefore, he, and the rest, claim Israel.

Now, Arafat, after even you admit he was not born in "palestine", is Egyptian, or, we could even be more general and just say he was arab. Now, as an Arab, where, pray tell, could an Arab go to claim a homeland, hmmmmmmmmm. Anywhere??? Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, etc. etc.

Or, perhaps we could even be more general and say Arafat was muslim. Now, where could a muslim go to claim a homeland. Hmmmmmm. Do I even need to list all the muslim countries in the world? If you need help listing them, a good reference point is to just add up all the countries that currently have war/terrorism going on there.

P.S. I'll give you a heads up, you are walking into a trap here. I anxiously await your response.

Palestine is the Muslim homeland. All 1.4 billion Muslims need to move there and live there.

All the Zionists need to move back to Europe and Russia.

Arafat was born in Jerusalem, Zionist.

[Banned2]

By that logic the indians should be asking for their land back...or better yet strapping bombs to their kids and trying to blow us up..

Grow up peter pan, count chocula..Id like to be pimps from Oakland or Cowboys from Arizona but this isnt halloween.


If anyone gets that Ill give em props.

Because they didnt "starp bombs" and fight for their land, they got raped, and got screwed over.

This is what happens, if you dont fight. You get screwed over, history has proven this.

Resistance is always blessed.

[Banned2]

Exactly. These "opressed people" were being led by a guy that wasnt even from there!!

Same with the Israelies. No father of Israel was from Israel. Infact Israel never existed, its a modern Zionist creation.

The Jews were desperate for a state, and they were willing to take Uganda and even Argentina.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...sm/Uganda.html

[Kale]

Dickhead alert !! Dickhead Alert !!!

[alphaman]

Same with the Israelies. No father of Israel was from Israel. Infact Israel never existed, its a modern Zionist creation.

The Jews were desperate for a state, and they were willing to take Uganda and even Argentina.

http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/...sm/Uganda.html

Well the Bible which you claim is a holy book certainly doesn't hold the view that Israel is a "modern Zionist creation".

[Banned2]

Zangwill became the movement's undisputed leader. After the rejection of the Uganda scheme on the grounds of impracticability by the British, Zangwill turned his attention to settlement in Canada and Australia. But opposition from local residents led him to abandon the scheme.

No one wanted these Zionists, not even the Ugandan people. But the Palestinians got screwed over.

[Banned2]

Well the Bible which you claim is a holy book certainly doesn't hold the view that Israel is a "modern Zionist creation".

In the Bible, the State of Israel will be created by the Messiah, not a man made entity.

At the beginning of the creation of the State of Israel, ALL religious Jews rejected it. But eventually most bought the idea.

Although there are still, true Jews, who call the creation of Israel by MAN, an evil move.

http://www.jewsnotzionists.org/

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/

http://www.nkusa.org/

[RA]

America is a mondern creation by your standards. Should the indians be strapping bombs to their kids and blowing us up?

[Banned2]

America is a mondern creation by your standards. Should the indians be strapping bombs to their kids and blowing us up?

They have every right to get back their homeland. They are justified, in attacking military targets.

[Kale]

They have every right to get back their homeland. They are justified, in attacking military targets.

You mean like public buses and cafe's You are so full of shit it defies description, why arnt you over there helping defend the faith with your equally retarded brothers ?

[Banned2]

Well the Bible which you claim is a holy book certainly doesn't hold the view that Israel is a "modern Zionist creation".

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...highlight=jews

[Banned2]

You mean like public buses and cafe's You are so full of shit it defies description, why arnt you over there helping defend the faith with your equally retarded brothers ?

Who said attacking buses and cafe's were justified?

I have always said Al Queda, Hamas, Islamic Jihad ARE terrorist groups.

Hizbollah is NOT.

And I say this, and I am not even Shia.

[Banned2]

Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed be He, in His Glory and Essence redeems us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah. Because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as it explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. And the Holy One, blessed be He, has warned us that if we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

[RA]

They have every right to get back their homeland. They are justified, in attacking military targets.

OMG, I cant...

Is that what the people your defending do?

[RA]

Who said attacking buses and cafe's were justified?

I have always said Al Queda, Hamas, Islamic Jihad ARE terrorist groups.

Hizbollah is NOT.

And I say this, and I am not even Shia.

They are firing off rockets..they dont care if they hit a little girl riding a bike or a party store..those arent military targets!!

[Banned2]

OMG, I cant...

Is that what the people your defending do?

All these groups are fighting for their land. That is the bottom line. The common equation.

Some groups use terrorism, some dont.

[Banned2]

They are firing off rockets..they dont care if they hit a little girl riding a bike or a party store..those arent military targets!!

True, but Nasrallah only did it after Israel bombed Lebanon and killed civilians.

Again who killed more civilians, Israel or Hizbollah?

Who is causing more "terror"? Hizbollah or Israel.

[Slick Arrado]

May all those that have passed away, on both sides, Rest In Peace.

[RA]

All these groups are fighting for their land. That is the bottom line. The common equation.

Some groups use terrorism, some dont.

The means by which you fight shows a lot about your character.

[Banned2]

All these Jews kis55, Rak_Ani, and AIZ are not religious.

Rak_Ani herself admited it, and when I had a discussion with AIZ, I realize that I have more knowledge on Judaism than he does.

[RA]

True, but Nasrallah only did it after Israel bombed Lebanon and killed civilians.

Again who killed more civilians, Israel or Hizbollah?

Who is causing more "terror"? Hizbollah or Israel.

You must be blind as a bat. Israel goes out of their way to try and not kill civilians. Hizbollah is using them as shields to further their cause. Hizbollah is also TARGETING civilians. 120% different.

[Banned2]

The means by which you fight shows a lot about your character.

Again if the Palestinians had Tanks, Apaches, Missles, F-16's, top of the line weaponry, they wouldnt be using terrorism.

Terrorism is a poor man's method of warfare.

[Banned2]

You must be blind as a bat. Israel goes out of their way to try and not kill civilians. Hizbollah is using them as shields to further their cause. Hizbollah is also TARGETING civilians. 120% different.

Hahaha.

Again you are repeating what is said to you in the Zionist media. I dont blame you, you were brainwashed since you were a child.

You might say the same for me. But I always have lived in Western countries, I lived in India/Pakistan for 1 year. Jordan for about 6 months. But mostly Europe, Russia, and the US.

[RA]

Again if the Palestinians had Tanks, Apaches, Missles, F-16's, top of the line weaponry, they wouldnt be using terrorism.

Terrorism is a poor man's method of warfare.

Doesnt make it right. Use gorilla warfare but attack their military, not innocent people.

[RA]

Hahaha.

Again you are repeating what is said to you in the Zionist media. I dont blame you, you were brainwashed since you were a child.

You might say the same for me. But I always have lived in Western countries, I lived in India/Pakistan for 1 year. Jordan for about 6 months. But mostly Europe, Russia, and the US.

Way to run and hide bro. I speak the truth and you know it.

[alphaman]

In the Bible, the State of Israel will be created by the Messiah, not a man made entity.

Deuteronomy 31:23
23 The LORD gave this command to Joshua son of Nun: "Be strong and courageous, for you will bring the Israelites into the land I promised them on oath, and I myself will be with you."



Psalm 105
1 Give thanks to the LORD, call on his name;
make known among the nations what he has done.

2 Sing to him, sing praise to him;
tell of all his wonderful acts.

3 Glory in his holy name;
let the hearts of those who seek the LORD rejoice.

4 Look to the LORD and his strength;
seek his face always.

5 Remember the wonders he has done,
his miracles, and the judgments he pronounced,

6 O descendants of Abraham his servant,
O sons of Jacob, his chosen ones.

7 He is the LORD our God;
his judgments are in all the earth.

8 He remembers his covenant forever,
the word he commanded, for a thousand generations,

9 the covenant he made with Abraham,
the oath he swore to Isaac.

10 He confirmed it to Jacob as a decree,
to Israel as an everlasting covenant:

11 "To you I will give the land of Canaan
as the portion you will inherit."

12 When they were but few in number,
few indeed, and strangers in it,

13 they wandered from nation to nation,
from one kingdom to another.

14 He allowed no one to oppress them;
for their sake he rebuked kings:

15 "Do not touch my anointed ones;
do my prophets no harm."

16 He called down famine on the land
and destroyed all their supplies of food;

17 and he sent a man before them—
Joseph, sold as a slave.

18 They bruised his feet with shackles,
his neck was put in irons,

19 till what he foretold came to pass,
till the word of the LORD proved him true.

20 The king sent and released him,
the ruler of peoples set him free.

21 He made him master of his household,
ruler over all he possessed,

22 to instruct his princes as he pleased
and teach his elders wisdom.

23 Then Israel entered Egypt;
Jacob lived as an alien in the land of Ham.

24 The LORD made his people very fruitful;
he made them too numerous for their foes,

25 whose hearts he turned to hate his people,
to conspire against his servants.

26 He sent Moses his servant,
and Aaron, whom he had chosen.

27 They performed his miraculous signs among them,
his wonders in the land of Ham.

28 He sent darkness and made the land dark—
for had they not rebelled against his words?

29 He turned their waters into blood,
causing their fish to die.

30 Their land teemed with frogs,
which went up into the bedrooms of their rulers.

31 He spoke, and there came swarms of flies,
and gnats throughout their country.

32 He turned their rain into hail,
with lightning throughout their land;

33 he struck down their vines and fig trees
and shattered the trees of their country.

34 He spoke, and the locusts came,
grasshoppers without number;

35 they ate up every green thing in their land,
ate up the produce of their soil.

36 Then he struck down all the firstborn in their land,
the firstfruits of all their manhood.

37 He brought out Israel, laden with silver and gold,
and from among their tribes no one faltered.

38 Egypt was glad when they left,
because dread of Israel had fallen on them.

39 He spread out a cloud as a covering,
and a fire to give light at night.

40 They asked, and he brought them quail
and satisfied them with the bread of heaven.

41 He opened the rock, and water gushed out;
like a river it flowed in the desert.

42 For he remembered his holy promise
given to his servant Abraham.

43 He brought out his people with rejoicing,
his chosen ones with shouts of joy;

44 he gave them the lands of the nations,
and they fell heir to what others had toiled for-

45 that they might keep his precepts
and observe his laws.
Praise the LORD. [a]

[Banned2]

Doesnt make it right. Use gorilla warfare but attack their military, not innocent people.

That is what Hizbollah does, unlike Hamas. Yet some countries call Hizbollah terrorists, some.

Again, Israel has killed more civilians than Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Hizbollah combined.

[RA]

That is what Hizbollah does, unlike Hamas. Yet some countries call Hizbollah terrorists, some.

Again, Israel has killed more civilians than Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Hizbollah combined.

Again, not on purpose. If they would come out of the woodwork and fight innocent people would be spared.

[Banned2]

Again, not on purpose. If they would come out of the woodwork and fight innocent people would be spared.

So is that blackmail? You dont come out and fight, we will kill the innocent civilians?

Maybe the Israelies should come out of the woodwork and fight a ground war, not shoot missiles from planes and navy ships at civilian targets.

[RA]

You know thats not what I meant..when you hide behind them they are bound to get killed..and from what I see the ground game is coming.

[alphaman]

So Caus --

Why don't you respond to what the Bible actually says rather than looking at someone else's general statement?


What about this? Sound familiar?

Deuteronomy 30

1 When all these blessings and curses I have set before you come upon you and you take them to heart wherever the LORD your God disperses you among the nations, (70 AD) 2 and when you and your children return to the LORD your God and obey him with all your heart and with all your soul according to everything I command you today, 3 then the LORD your God will restore your fortunes [a] and have compassion on you and gather you again from all the nations where he scattered you.(1947) 4 Even if you have been banished to the most distant land under the heavens, from there the LORD your God will gather you and bring you back. 5 He will bring you to the land that belonged to your fathers(so here the Bible states again that the land belonged to Israel ), and you will take possession of it. He will make you more prosperous and numerous than your fathers. 6 The LORD your God will circumcise your hearts and the hearts of your descendants, so that you may love him with all your heart and with all your soul, and live. 7 The LORD your God will put all these curses on your enemies who hate and persecute you. (2006 lol)

-- parenthesis added



Disclaimer -- there is more than one interpretation to this passage. The one I am using here is the one that will mess with Caus the most..... But in no way can this passage be interpreted that Israel didn't own the land long before 1947.

[Banned2]

The Quran says something similiar -

17:104

And We said to the Children of Israel after him: "Dwell in the land, then, when the final and the last promise comes near [i.e. the Day of Resurrection or the descent of Christ ['Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) on the earth]. We shall bring you altogether as mixed crowd (gathered out of various nations).[Tafsir Al-Qurtubî, Vol. 10, Page 338]

Again not by a man made entity (UN) but by GOD.

Muslims agree with real Jews.

The People of Israel Oppose This For 4 Reasons

FIRST - Because this is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the people of Israel, as it explained above. Because the only time that the people of Israel where permitted to have a state were two thousand years ago when the Glory of the Creator was upon us. And likewise in the future when the Glory of the Creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him. Then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service.

However, a wordily state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substituted another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation." And the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize land and army.

However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. And this is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather, it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND - Because of all of this and other reasons Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed be He, in His Glory and Essence redeems us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah. Because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as it explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. And the Holy One, blessed be He, has warned us that if we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD - Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel, is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel are required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the Congregation of Israel.

FOURTH - Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah, they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power, from fulfilling the commands of the Torah. They do this both with force and with trickery. Their claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight will all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

[alphaman]

The Quran says something similiar -

17:104

And We said to the Children of Israel after him: "Dwell in the land, then, when the final and the last promise comes near [i.e. the Day of Resurrection or the descent of Christ ['Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary) on the earth]. We shall bring you altogether as mixed crowd (gathered out of various nations).[Tafsir Al-Qurtubî, Vol. 10, Page 338]

Again not by a man made entity (UN) but by GOD.

Muslims agree with real Jews.

The People of Israel Oppose This For 4 Reasons

FIRST - Because this is diametrically opposed and completely contradictory to the true essence and foundation of the people of Israel, as it explained above. Because the only time that the people of Israel where permitted to have a state were two thousand years ago when the Glory of the Creator was upon us. And likewise in the future when the Glory of the Creator will once more be revealed, and the whole world will serve Him. Then He Himself (without any human effort or force of arms) will grant us a kingdom founded on Divine Service.

However, a wordily state, like those possessed by other peoples, is contradictory to the true essence of the People of Israel. Whoever calls this the salvation of Israel shows that he denies the essence of the People of Israel, and substituted another nature, a worldly materialistic nature, and therefore sets before them, a worldly materialistic "salvation." And the means of achieving this "salvation" is also worldly and materialistic i.e. to organize land and army.

However, the true salvation of the People of Israel is to draw close to the Creator. And this is not done by organization and force of arms. Rather, it is done by occupation to Torah and good deeds.

SECOND - Because of all of this and other reasons Torah forbids us to end the exile and establish a state and army until the Holy One, blessed be He, in His Glory and Essence redeems us. This is forbidden even if the state is conducted according to the law of the Torah. Because arising from the exile itself is forbidden, and we are required to remain under the rule of the nations of the world, as it explained in the book VAYOEL MOSHE. And the Holy One, blessed be He, has warned us that if we transgress this injunction, He will bring upon us (may we be spared) terrible punishment.

THIRD - Aside from arising from exile, all the deeds of the Zionists are diametrically opposed to the Faith and the Torah. Because the foundation of the Faith and Torah of Israel, is that the Torah was revealed from heaven, and there is reward for those who obey it and punishment for those who transgress it. The entire People of Israel are required to obey the Torah, and whoever doesn't want to, ceases to be part of the Congregation of Israel.

FOURTH - Aside from the fact that they themselves do not obey the Torah, they do everything they can to prevent anyone they get under their power, from fulfilling the commands of the Torah. They do this both with force and with trickery. Their claims to freedom of religion are lies. They fight will all of their strength to destroy the Faith of Israel.

Again -- Why don't we look at what the Bible says rather than what someone says it says. This guy, this "real Jew" can say what ever he wants, but if he wants to be taken seriously -- he must back his statements with scripture.

Isaiah 66:8

8 Who has ever heard of such a thing?
Who has ever seen such things?
Can a country be born in a day
or a nation be brought forth in a moment?
Yet no sooner is Zion in labor
than she gives birth to her children.

Hmmm... In 1945 Jews are being exterminated in gas chambers -- their existence as a people being threatened -- and in May 1948 there is the establishment of the state of Israel!!

If there is one thing I know it's that the Bible is true in what it says!


.