Awaiting the Iranian messiah?

[mcpeepants]

Uhhh, false statement?


No???


Then give it up.

you can duck the issue or spin it all you want, the professor in the article wants regime change and is not a credible source. do you think the iraq exiles were credible too?

[alphaman]

you can duck the issue or spin it all you want, the professor in the article wants regime change and is not a credible source. do you think the iraq exiles were credible too?

Of course he wants regime change! Many do!




If he's not a credible source, then disprove just one statement.

[alphaman]

When we talk about religion maby But not when talking about world events...



Nah, China is growing rich off america and Russia is growing rich of the EU. Neither one of them would risk the trade to protect Iran. The money those 2 countries make off america and EU is far far far more than any possible deal they can make with Iran. Putin is a ruthless and smart man, the moment Iran becomes a burden he will drop all support. Its not like Putin is a friend of radical islamists. He probably hates them even more than Bush.

Hmmm..... The people who want Israel gone have unlimited amounts of cash. Russia has technology -- needs $. Iran needs technology -- has tons of $.

My pastor was in Iran about a year ago, and he stood on the shore of the Caspian Sea and saw tons of Russian ships docking in Iran.

[alphaman]

Everyone that disagree is a liberal

Hmmm.... I didn't know that was the definition of 'liberal'.....

Buy her something nice mate. Flowers and a big box of chocolate

Her mom gets her flowers every b-day, so I went to WALMART and got her a carpet cleaner!

I also got her some jewelry and a yankee candle.

--and a card.

[Kärnfysikern]

Hmmm..... The people who want Israel gone have unlimited amounts of cash. Russia has technology -- needs $. Iran needs technology -- has tons of $.

My pastor was in Iran about a year ago, and he stood on the shore of the Caspian Sea and saw tons of Russian ships docking in Iran.

Gazprom, russias biggest company and one of the worlds largest oil and gas exporters, is russias biggest money maker and they sell most of that to the EU. They are making so much money its ridicilous. There is no way iran or the middle east can match that.

Russia isnt in such dire need of cash as they used to, they have almost payed of the foreign debts and are very stable. Aslong as the gas keeps flowing to the EU russias economy will continue to rise.

Russia will support Iran as long as its profitable, the one billion busher plant is probably the reason and I guess arms deals. But they wont go to war over a one billion nuclear power plant. I dont think Putin wants to se a Iran with nuclear weapons either. Sooner or later the ayatholla or ahmajinead, if they are truly fanatic muslims that is, is going to officialy start support chechenya. Russia wont want them to have nukes in that event.

I think I saw a article that predicted china will soon be the biggest exporter to usa. There is nothing iran can offer china that comes close to saturating the american market with junk consumer products.

Hmmm.... I didn't know that was the definition of 'liberal'...

It seems like it sometimes

Why do you think the article is bullshit btw??

Her mom gets her flowers every b-day, so I went to WALMART and got her a carpet cleaner!

I also got her some jewelry and a yankee candle.

--and a card.

A carpet cleaner, sounds romantic

I bet she loved the jewelry

[alphaman]

Gazprom, russias biggest company and one of the worlds largest oil and gas exporters, is russias biggest money maker and they sell most of that to the EU. They are making so much money its ridicilous. There is no way iran or the middle east can match that.

Russia isnt in such dire need of cash as they used to, they have almost payed of the foreign debts and are very stable. Aslong as the gas keeps flowing to the EU russias economy will continue to rise.

Russia will support Iran as long as its profitable, the one billion busher plant is probably the reason and I guess arms deals. But they wont go to war over a one billion nuclear power plant. I dont think Putin wants to se a Iran with nuclear weapons either. Sooner or later the ayatholla or ahmajinead, if they are truly fanatic muslims that is, is going to officialy start support chechenya. Russia wont want them to have nukes in that event.

I think I saw a article that predicted china will soon be the biggest exporter to usa. There is nothing iran can offer china that comes close to saturating the american market with junk consumer products.




It seems like it sometimes

Why do you think the article is bullshit btw??




A carpet cleaner, sounds romantic

I bet she loved the jewelry

Well, she wanted the carpet cleaner -- and it didn't qualify as a good gift for me until I told her it wasn't -- so now she'll be suprised.

I didn't read the whole article, but from what I read, it looked like the statement said everything everyone said it did, but the author wanted to elaborate further than Ahmadenejad or Khomeni did to make it sound like something it wasn't.

[Kärnfysikern]

Well, she wanted the carpet cleaner -- and it didn't qualify as a good gift for me until I told her it wasn't -- so now she'll be suprised.

how long have you two been married?

I didn't read the whole article, but from what I read, it looked like the statement said everything everyone said it did, but the author wanted to elaborate further than Ahmadenejad or Khomeni did to make it sound like something it wasn't.

Wipe from the pages of time doesnt sound friendly, but it doesnt sound like he personaly is going to wipe them of the map like western media wants it to sound like.

That the ayatholla a few days after that comment specificly said Iran wont make any hostile actions towards any country seems important. Because after all Ahmadinejad is just a puppet anyway and I have never seen any quote with the ayatholla proclaiming destruction of israel.

[alphaman]

how long have you two been married?

Married six years -- lived togther nine.

Wipe from the pages of time doesnt sound friendly, but it doesnt sound like he personaly is going to wipe them of the map like western media wants it to sound like.

Sounds even more final to me.

That the ayatholla a few days after that comment specificly said Iran wont make any hostile actions towards any country seems important. Because after all Ahmadinejad is just a puppet anyway and I have never seen any quote with the ayatholla proclaiming destruction of israel.

Of course he would after the reaction the rest of the world had.

[alphaman]

I googled the comment and the results are mixed but the first one is aljazeera saying that he said it.

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&s...he+map&spell=1

[mcpeepants]

Of course he wants regime change! Many do!




If he's not a credible source, then disprove just one statement.

The statements are coming from the professor and there are no sources in the article, just his oppinions. since you insist he is credible, prove what he is saying is true not oppinion.

[Logan13]

Most of the quotes are coming from a guy who wants regime change in Iran. He has reason to make Iran look as bad as possible to making bombing it easier like the Iraqi exiles spreading lies about Iraq's wmd program to facilate are invasion of Iraq.

Quit playing the fool.

[mcpeepants]

Quit playing the fool.

saying nothing as usual

[Logan13]

saying nothing as usual

That is all that your whack-job posts demand in regards to a reply.

[alphaman]

The statements are coming from the professor and there are no sources in the article, just his oppinions. since you insist he is credible, prove what he is saying is true not oppinion.

You should have went back and edited this post again because it's a very poor attempt at getting out of answering the question.

[mcpeepants]

That is all that your whack-job posts demand in regards to a reply.

well you never try to disprove my posts and just post your oppinions

[mcpeepants]

You should have went back and edited this post again because it's a very poor attempt at getting out of answering the question.

read the article again, most of the quotes are oppinions and come from one person. i've shown why the author of the quotes isn't credible, you have shown why he should be?

[singern]

well you never try to disprove my posts and just post your oppinions

Well since only God and the megalomaniac Ahmenajad know the truth isnt it all speculation, and best guess. Wouldnt any post or statement by any person be just opinion?

So unless you can magically prove otherwise, his opinion seems as valid as any.

[Kärnfysikern]

read the article again, most of the quotes are oppinions and come from one person. i've shown why the author of the quotes isn't credible, you have shown why he should be?

Perfectly resonable imo. I se no reason to trust this article anymore than I se a reason to trust a islamists oppinion of Usama.

If iran is rebuilding alot of infrastructure to prepare for mahdi or whatever his name is, then it should be very easy to prove

[Kärnfysikern]

Well since only God and the megalomaniac Ahmenajad know the truth isnt it all speculation.

Anyone working on building the roads for the savior would know if its true or not I guess. It should not be to hard to find the truth. Im to lazy to search though

[singern]

Anyone working on building the roads for the savior would know if its true or not I guess. It should not be to hard to find the truth. Im to lazy to search though

I think Ahmenajad believes himself to be the savior. His speeches, and actions all point to this in a very scary reality.

[Kärnfysikern]

I think Ahmenajad believes himself to be the savior. His speeches, and actions all point to this in a very scary reality.

Well he seems a bit nutty, but president bush belives jesus is guiding his action and that to me is freaking scary aswell.

I have trouble knowing what is rhetoric for the masses to gain support and what is true belife when it comes to ahmenajad. I dont trust the media when it comes to him, not after the "wipe israel of the map" translation. I dont trust the bush admin about him either, not after the wmd in iraq fiasco.

Thats why I only go by proof and nothing else. offcourse what the ayatholla say holds alot more weight to me than ahmaenajads stupid rants.

[singern]

Well he seems a bit nutty, but president bush belives jesus is guiding his action and that to me is freaking scary aswell.

I have trouble knowing what is rhetoric for the masses to gain support and what is true belife when it comes to ahmenajad. I dont trust the media when it comes to him, not after the "wipe israel of the map" translation. I dont trust the bush admin about him either, not after the wmd in iraq fiasco.

Thats why I only go by proof and nothing else. offcourse what the ayatholla say holds alot more weight to me than ahmaenajads stupid rants.

Fair enough, but at least a democratic environment gives the option for debate, change, and correction. I dont think anyone is lining up to argue with Ahmenajad, or the ayatollah for that matter.

[Kärnfysikern]

Fair enough, but at least a democratic environment gives the option for debate, change, and correction. I dont think anyone is lining up to argue with Ahmenajad, or the ayatollah for that matter.

True, iran is a filthy dictatorship no doubt.

But if we are not prepared to go to the same lenghts with iraq and iran as we did with japan and germany I se no hope of forcing democracy upon them by force.

I dont think it can be done half assed. Either we go in there with everything we got and force the filthy propaganda out of the people once and for all. Or we dont do it at all. Offcourse I prefere the second option because we can not realisticly do that to every dirty regime out there and doing it to one or two will just make the other regimes more dangerous.

[singern]

True, iran is a filthy dictatorship no doubt.

But if we are not prepared to go to the same lenghts with iraq and iran as we did with japan and germany I se no hope of forcing democracy upon them by force.

I dont think it can be done half assed. Either we go in there with everything we got and force the filthy propaganda out of the people once and for all. Or we dont do it at all. Offcourse I prefere the second option because we can not realisticly do that to every dirty regime out there and doing it to one or two will just make the other regimes more dangerous.

There are alternative measures to total destruction, the most attractive would be the international support, and assistance for an internal regime change, a second revolution. By taking out the entire political and religious leadership Iran would have no choice but to address the issues which are most pressing, and would force the abandonment of Ahmenajada's personal agenda of perverted greatness..

[Kärnfysikern]

There are alternative measures to total destruction, the most attractive would be the international support, and assistance for an internal regime change, a second revolution. By taking out the entire political and religious leadership Iran would have no choice but to address the issues which are most pressing, and would force the abandonment of Ahmenajada's personal agenda of perverted greatness..

That assumes the people would support it. I doubt it, after all the first ayatholla was recived as a hero, better the devil they know aswell. Iraq proved this.

People always resist outside forces forcing changes upon them. Even if the changes would be for the better. Thats why I think all out brutal destruction is needed. They need to know the path they are on will only lead to totaly annihilation. Just like the japs and germans knew after beeing grinded to dust.

Since no one is willing to comit to brutal destruction, certainly not me.
Id say let the revolution happen on its own accord. Untill we have solid proof the regime is a danger any action we take towards it would only worsen the situation and increase the popularity of the regime since the people will gather up in support against us.

[mcpeepants]

Well since only God and the megalomaniac Ahmenajad know the truth isnt it all speculation, and best guess. Wouldnt any post or statement by any person be just opinion?

So unless you can magically prove otherwise, his opinion seems as valid as any.

his oppinion is as valid and credible as the Iraqi exiles claims about wmd. they have an agenda and would do anything to achieve it. the earth is round isn't an oppinion, if you wanted you could prove it to your self. We did regime change an Iran back in the 50s when it had a democracy. Iranians have real reasons to worry about Western intentions. And if Iran is as crazy and dangerous as you say, why are there still jews in Iran. Iranian is transitioning to democracy, foreign meddling or war could throw that down the toilet.

[Phreak101]

There are alternative measures to total destruction, the most attractive would be the international support, and assistance for an internal regime change, a second revolution. By taking out the entire political and religious leadership Iran would have no choice but to address the issues which are most pressing, and would force the abandonment of Ahmenajada's personal agenda of perverted greatness..

Why? So 10 years from now we can have people like McPee and Humungus screaming at the U.S. for supporting the overthrowing of Iran's "democraticaly elected" president?

No thanks. Go hard or go home.

[singern]

People always resist outside forces forcing changes upon them. Even if the changes would be for the better. Thats why I think all out brutal destruction is needed. They need to know the path they are on will only lead to totaly annihilation. Just like the japs and germans knew after beeing grinded to dust..

No. I said internal regime change, with international support. In my example which was just an example, I stated that this would be of the Iranian people taking matters into there own hands. With no outsider boots on the ground.

[singern]

his oppinion is as valid and credible as the Iraqi exiles claims about wmd. they have an agenda and would do anything to achieve it. the earth is round isn't an oppinion, if you wanted you could prove it to your self. We did regime change an Iran back in the 50s when it had a democracy. Iranians have real reasons to worry about Western intentions. And if Iran is as crazy and dangerous as you say, why are there still jews in Iran. Iranian is transitioning to democracy, foreign meddling or war could throw that down the toilet.

His opinion is just that, His opinion.

and yes I do believe that the Iranian leader is an out of control lunatic bent on a perverted notion that he is the savior of Islam. From an imaginary enemy.

Why are there Jews left in Iran I don’t know, there are also two Jews still living in Afghanistan I don’t know why, but what in the world does that have to do with this discussion?

[ecivon]

His opinion is just that, His opinion.

and yes I do believe that the Iranian leader is an out of control lunatic bent on a perverted notion that he is the savior of Islam. From an imaginary enemy.

Why are there Jews left in Iran I don’t know, there are also two Jews still living in Afghanistan I don’t know why, but what in the world does that have to do with this discussion?

Jews live all over the world because they choose to, including Iran. I have grandparents that were sephardic jews who were from Scotland. Doesn't mean a thing to me that they were jewish, just as it shouldn't if they were catholic. I guess the point is that Iranian jews don't feel politically threatened, or ostracized, by being jewish by all of the talk surrounding Ahmadinejad.

[singern]

I guess the point is that Iranian jews don't feel politically threatened, or ostracized, by being jewish by all of the talk surrounding Ahmadinejad.

Since there are no freedom's of speech, or press in Iran how do you know this to be true? Since the police force enforces only strict Islamic Law and not individual freedom, and justice how do you know this to be true.

I have read numerous articles which describe a very different picture of life for non Muslims in Iran, one of isolation and fear, but I have no clue if they are true or false.....do you?



Here is the least ambiguous article I could find:

At least 13 Jews have been executed in Iran most of them for either religious reasons or their connection to Israel. For example, in May 1998, Jewish businessman Ruhollah Kakhodah-Zadeh was hanged in public, apparently for assisting Jews to emigrate to Israel.Today, Iran's Jewish population is the second argest in the Middle East, after Israel. Reports vary as the the condition and treatment of the small, tight-knit community, and the population of Iranian Jews can only be estimated due to the community's isolation from world Jewry.

[ecivon]

Since there is no freedom of speech, or press in Iran how do you know this to be true? Since the police force enforces only strict Islamic Law and not individual freedom, and justice how do you know this to be true.

I have read numerous articles which describe a very different picture of life for non Muslims in Iran, one of isolation and fear, but I have no clue if they are true or false.....do you?



Here is the least ambiguous article I could find:

At least 13 Jews have been executed in Iran most of them for either religious reasons or their connection to Israel. For example, in May 1998, Jewish businessman Ruhollah Kakhodah-Zadeh was hanged in public, apparently for assisting Jews to emigrate to Israel.Today, Iran's Jewish population is the second argest in the Middle East, after Israel. Reports vary as the the condition and treatment of the small, tight-knit community, and the population of Iranian Jews can only be estimated due to the community's isolation from world Jewry.

No, truthfully I don't have any what I would call first hand knowledge of their treatment in Iran. I do alot of work in the ME and get reports forwarded to me daily that have said that Israel has pressured them on aliyah, but that they have refused because they are content where they are. I saw a news story where the jewish community spoke on many issues in Iran, including security issues and freedom of religion and the story said they don't have any restrictions, or feel threatened. However, Singern, I think that if they openly spoke out against the regime, or Islamism, or spoke openly promoting Israel -- as in the press -- there would most likely be serious problems, but that would be the case jewish or not. All sides of the argument will explain their opinions based on biases they cherry-pick from media accounts. Peace Bro.

[Logan13]

well you never try to disprove my posts and just post your oppinions

That's all I have ever done is disprove you. I thought that you would have been tired of that by now. One cannot disprove warped beliefs, so why should I try. Maybe when you get some responsibility in life you will see everything differently...........

[mcpeepants]

His opinion is just that, His opinion.

and yes I do believe that the Iranian leader is an out of control lunatic bent on a perverted notion that he is the savior of Islam. From an imaginary enemy.

Why are there Jews left in Iran I don’t know, there are also two Jews still living in Afghanistan I don’t know why, but what in the world does that have to do with this discussion?

If he's as dangerous as you keep saying or is like Hitler, all jews in Iran would have been killed, fled, or put in prison. Why would such a lunatic wait?

[mcpeepants]

That's all I have ever done is disprove you. I thought that you would have been tired of that by now. One cannot disprove warped beliefs, so why should I try. Maybe when you get some responsibility in life you will see everything differently...........

This is how you have responded to me in this thread. Where exactly are you disproving me below?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcpeepants
The government and the media were saying the Soviets would use nukes on us because they were a bunch of godless communists


It is amazing who you give the benefit of the doubt to and who you do not, it just defies logic. But maybe that is "cool" where you come from.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcpeepants
Most of the quotes are coming from a guy who wants regime change in Iran. He has reason to make Iran look as bad as possible to making bombing it easier like the Iraqi exiles spreading lies about Iraq's wmd program to facilate are invasion of Iraq.

Quit playing the fool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcpeepants
saying nothing as usual


That is all that your whack-job posts demand in regards to a reply.

[Logan13]

This is how you have responded to me in this thread. Where exactly are you disproving me below?

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcpeepants
The government and the media were saying the Soviets would use nukes on us because they were a bunch of godless communists


It is amazing who you give the benefit of the doubt to and who you do not, it just defies logic. But maybe that is "cool" where you come from.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcpeepants
Most of the quotes are coming from a guy who wants regime change in Iran. He has reason to make Iran look as bad as possible to making bombing it easier like the Iraqi exiles spreading lies about Iraq's wmd program to facilate are invasion of Iraq.

Quit playing the fool.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mcpeepants
saying nothing as usual


That is all that your whack-job posts demand in regards to a reply.

I am through with debating silliness. I'm sorry mcpeepants, but I sincerely believe that most of your posts require this type of response from me. I have debated the issues plenty, and I think that it is safe to say that I have done a fairly good job at it. In college I actually participated in the "get out the vote" drive for the Democratic party in Iowa City. This was back when I had nothing else to do and had no responsibilities. When you get married, have children, a career, and the wealth that comes with it, you will see the world quite differently as well. Do not mean to preach, but you seem to have wanted a reason for my replies.........

[singern]

If he's as dangerous as you keep saying or is like Hitler, all jews in Iran would have been killed, fled, or put in prison. Why would such a lunatic wait?

Yeah, can you imagine the same person who denies the holocaust ever happened, being the one to exterminate all Jews in his country...

I do not pretend to know what logic if any is running through his little head, I can only state my thoughts according to his actions, words, and deeds.

but it seems you have an in-depth insight that no one else has........

[Phreak101]

If he's as dangerous as you keep saying or is like Hitler, all jews in Iran would have been killed, fled, or put in prison. Why would such a lunatic wait?

Because the US and Israel would not stand for it, and he isn't stupid enough to be making moves like that. Remember, crazy, not stupid.

[mcpeepants]

I am through with debating silliness. I'm sorry mcpeepants, but I sincerely believe that most of your posts require this type of response from me. I have debated the issues plenty, and I think that it is safe to say that I have done a fairly good job at it. In college I actually participated in the "get out the vote" drive for the Democratic party in Iowa City. This was back when I had nothing else to do and had no responsibilities. When you get married, have children, a career, and the wealth that comes with it, you will see the world quite differently as well. Do not mean to preach, but you seem to have wanted a reason for my replies.........

I just wanted you confer that your replies were empty.

[mcpeepants]

Yeah, can you imagine the same person who denies the holocaust ever happened, being the one to exterminate all Jews in his country...

I do not pretend to know what logic if any is running through his little head, I can only state my thoughts according to his actions, words, and deeds.

but it seems you have an in-depth insight that no one else has........

Should I believe the Israeli governments positions is to deport all it's israeli arab citizens and killing arab politicians because Avigdor Lieberman said it?