Israel might use nukes against Iran

**singern** · 01-13-2007, 03:15 PM

Originally Posted by eliteforce

..and then I'm the one that is "spining history to fit an agenda based on hatful denial"!

LETS SEE, Your denying the fact of Arab/Nazi cooperation pre and post WWII, and the openly sadistic intention of the current Ahmenajads regime today.
yes of course I stand by my statement......

**mcpeepants** · 01-15-2007, 01:13 AM

Originally Posted by singern

The fact that when Iran gets there Nukes they will pass them out like Falafel to any terror group that hates Jews is common knowledge, and I take that threat very seriously.
As much as I am against war of any kind, I will be the first to approve a strike against them when the time comes.

Why would any country give nukes to a terrorist groups? What would stop the terrorists from using the weapon on them or ratting them out for recognition? If there is a slight thought gave a nuke to terrorist, Iran would be history. And if you think Iran would give nukes that easily, then why don't they just give the address of all its jewish citizens to these groups. I mean if their hate is so great, why wait?

**mcpeepants** · 01-15-2007, 01:27 AM

Originally Posted by singern

That is correct, but when Iran achieves its goal of building Nukes no Arab/Muslim nation will be able to stand in there path, and no one will be exempt.
Ahmenajad is a megelomaniac, plain and simple.

Muslim Pakistan already has probably more than 20 nukes and if Iran builds a nuke, Pakistan will developed even more nukes. Pakistan can check Iran.

**mcpeepants** · 01-15-2007, 01:29 AM

Originally Posted by zodiac666

very well put, even the people against israel wouldnt disagree with that

well when there were ceasefires between Israel and Palestinians, Israelis continued building settlements and the wall in the west bank. that doesn't promote peace.

**zodiac666** · 01-15-2007, 06:25 AM

Originally Posted by mcpeepants

Why would any country give nukes to a terrorist groups? What would stop the terrorists from using the weapon on them or ratting them out for recognition? If there is a slight thought gave a nuke to terrorist, Iran would be history. And if you think Iran would give nukes that easily, then why don't they just give the address of all its jewish citizens to these groups. I mean if their hate is so great, why wait?

iran has already given missles to hezbollah which they used on israel, why would you think they wouldnt give them nukes?

**Logan13** · 01-15-2007, 06:40 AM

Originally Posted by zodiac666

iran has already given missles to hezbollah which they used on israel, why would you think they wouldnt give them nukes?

Because he is naive......?

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-15-2007, 08:30 AM

Originally Posted by zodiac666

iran has already given missles to hezbollah which they used on israel, why would you think they wouldnt give them nukes?

because they dont want to die?

USA supported usama during the soviet-afghani war. Why didnt usa give usama nukes?

Just goes to show that even democratic nations supports terrorists when it suits them. Doesnt mean the supporting nation is insane. Also it doesnt matter how big a mouth ahmajedinahowthe****itsspelled has, even if iran had nukes it wouldnt be his to give away. The ayatholla seems a bit more sane and rational atleast.

**mcpeepants** · 01-15-2007, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by zodiac666

iran has already given missles to hezbollah which they used on israel, why would you think they wouldnt give them nukes?

Katyusha rockets are not the nuclear weapons. Katyusha rockets are not the nuclear weapons. The US sold weapons to Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war but that doesn't mean the US would of sold Saddam nukes.

**Logan13** · 01-15-2007, 09:45 AM

Originally Posted by mcpeepants

Katyusha rockets are not the nuclear weapons. Katyusha rockets are not the nuclear weapons. The US sold weapons to Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war but that doesn't mean the US would of sold Saddam nukes.

Saying that the US would not of sold nukes to Sadaam is not the same thing as saying that Iran would not sell nukes to Islamic fundamentalists. You are missing the whole "religious" factor involved here.

**singern** · 01-15-2007, 02:09 PM

Originally Posted by mcpeepants

Why would any country give nukes to a terrorist groups? What would stop the terrorists from using the weapon on them or ratting them out for recognition? If there is a slight thought gave a nuke to terrorist, Iran would be history.

Well simply put because Iran doesnt consider Hezbolah, AlQaida, Hamas and others to be terrorists. They are considered by Ahmenajad, and the Ayatollah to be "Heros of Islam"
Ahmenajad has already stated publicly he will give Nuke technology to any Islamic nation that wants it, and I belive him.

**zodiac666** · 01-15-2007, 08:09 PM

Originally Posted by johan

because they dont want to die?

USA supported usama during the soviet-afghani war. Why didnt usa give usama nukes?

Just goes to show that even democratic nations supports terrorists when it suits them. Doesnt mean the supporting nation is insane. Also it doesnt matter how big a mouth ahmajedinahowthe****itsspelled has, even if iran had nukes it wouldnt be his to give away. The ayatholla seems a bit more sane and rational atleast.

iran and hezbollah and all the muslim terrorists all have one country that they hate more than any other country, israel. and like logan said they dont just hate them for political/business reasons, they also hate them for religious/personal reasons.

also iran has been a hardcore supporter of hezbollah since they were formed in 1982. the iranian revolution and the teachings of the late Ayatollah Khomeini were big reasons why hezbollah was even started. my point is just that iran has so many ties to hezbollah that i dont think it would be very far fetched to assume that iran would give nukes to hezbollah to use on their shared enemy.

**eliteforce** · 01-16-2007, 01:24 AM

well even if you think they would give nukes to Hezbollah, I don't see anything that would suggest Hezbollah or Hamas would want nuclear weapons , but theres nothing that can be done to stop Iran from manufacturing nuclear weapons, and it is very possible Iran already has some devices, if Pakistan can manufacture nuclear weapons more than 10 years ago, I don't see whats taking Iran so long. If they have one already it's far to dangerous to attack nuclear facilities as that could be considered a nuclear first strike especially if there is nuclear fallout and environmental contamination-Iran will not tollerate millions of their people dying of cancer as the result of Israeli "defensive" action-they might hit TelAviv..and then who knows what happens .. you don't want to create a self-fulfilling prophesy when insisting they would do this and that.

**zodiac666** · 01-16-2007, 01:43 AM

Originally Posted by eliteforce

well even if you think they would give nukes to Hezbollah, I don't see anything that would suggest Hezbollah or Hamas would want nuclear weapons , but theres nothing that can be done to stop Iran from manufacturing nuclear weapons, and it is very possible Iran already has some devices, if Pakistan can manufacture nuclear weapons more than 10 years ago, I don't see whats taking Iran so long. If they have one already it's far to dangerous to attack nuclear facilities as that could be considered a nuclear first strike especially if there is nuclear fallout and environmental contamination-Iran will not tollerate millions of their people dying of cancer as the result of Israeli "defensive" action-they might hit TelAviv..and then who knows what happens .. you don't want to create a self-fulfilling prophesy when insisting they would do this and that.

you dont think hezbollah would want nukes? their soul existance is to destroy israel.

**zodiac666** · 01-16-2007, 02:01 AM

Originally Posted by eliteforce

well even if you think they would give nukes to Hezbollah, I don't see anything that would suggest Hezbollah or Hamas would want nuclear weapons , but theres nothing that can be done to stop Iran from manufacturing nuclear weapons, and it is very possible Iran already has some devices, if Pakistan can manufacture nuclear weapons more than 10 years ago, I don't see whats taking Iran so long. If they have one already it's far to dangerous to attack nuclear facilities as that could be considered a nuclear first strike especially if there is nuclear fallout and environmental contamination-Iran will not tollerate millions of their people dying of cancer as the result of Israeli "defensive" action-they might hit TelAviv..and then who knows what happens .. you don't want to create a self-fulfilling prophesy when insisting they would do this and that.

they could get nuked by israel, it just depends onwhether israel wants to take the huge risk of hoping that iran wont give hezbollah nukes.

and i seriously doubt iran has nukes already.

**singern** · 01-16-2007, 07:33 AM

Originally Posted by eliteforce

well even if you think they would give nukes to Hezbollah, I don't see anything that would suggest Hezbollah or Hamas would want nuclear weapons , but theres nothing that can be done to stop Iran from manufacturing nuclear weapons, and it is very possible Iran already has some devices, if Pakistan can manufacture nuclear weapons more than 10 years ago, I don't see whats taking Iran so long. If they have one already it's far to dangerous to attack nuclear facilities as that could be considered a nuclear first strike especially if there is nuclear fallout and environmental contamination-Iran will not tollerate millions of their people dying of cancer as the result of Israeli "defensive" action-they might hit TelAviv..and then who knows what happens .. you don't want to create a self-fulfilling prophesy when insisting they would do this and that.

If you look at the recent Iran-Iraq war. Iran used tens of thousands of children solders. Boys under the age of 13 who were recruited to fight in the war. The strategy was to "deplete Iraqi bullets".

I use this example because it represents the ability of the iranian leader to gladly sacrifice half the Iranian population in order to fulfill his goal of eliminating the Jews from the middle east and uniting all Arab/Muslim nations under him.

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-16-2007, 09:21 AM

Originally Posted by zodiac666

iran and hezbollah and all the muslim terrorists all have one country that they hate more than any other country, israel. and like logan said they dont just hate them for political/business reasons, they also hate them for religious/personal reasons.

also iran has been a hardcore supporter of hezbollah since they were formed in 1982. the iranian revolution and the teachings of the late Ayatollah Khomeini were big reasons why hezbollah was even started. my point is just that iran has so many ties to hezbollah that i dont think it would be very far fetched to assume that iran would give nukes to hezbollah to use on their shared enemy.

Well Iran can support hezbollah now without beeing in any risk themself. But if Iran gives them a nuke iran will not exist anymore. I have never read anything that indicates the ayatholla is nuts enough to sacrifice his own life along with his people just to give hez a bomb.

**singern** · 01-16-2007, 11:25 AM

Originally Posted by johan

. I have never read anything that indicates the ayatholla is nuts enough to sacrifice his own life along with his people just to give hez a bomb.

Iran offers to share nuclear technology
4/25/2006 5:00:00 PM GMT
http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=10984

Iran’s Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, said on Tuesday that Tehran is ready to share its nuclear technology with other countries, BBC reported.
"The Islamic Republic is ready to transfer this experience and the technology and knowledge of its scientists," the Iranian Supreme Leader said.

Sudanese President Bashir
The Sudanese President hailed Iran's enrichment of uranium as a great victory for the Islamic world, and Khartoum was considering creating a civilian nuclear program.

Last year, Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmedinejad spoke of sharing nuclear technology with other nations.

IMO:
If they say these things openly, just imagine what goes on behind closed doors with leaders of terror groups like Hezbola, hamas and AlKaida....

Did anyone see the show 24 last night?

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-16-2007, 11:40 AM

Well the entire world is sharing nuclear technology with anyone signing the NPT and america is planning to share it with nations that hasnt signed the npt(india).

Nuclear technology isnt hostile or dangerous. Nuclear weapons are. If Iran is trying to start some own movement to spread technology to nations that hasnt signed the NPT it needs to be dealt with. But since most big arab nations that plan on building nuclear power plants probably has already signed it it wont matter much in the long run.

Do you think the ayatholla would sacrifice his own life, his familys life, his relatives lifes and the life of his entire country in order to give hezbolla one nuke? In that case I think he would rather launch the nuke himself.

**singern** · 01-16-2007, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by johan

Do you think the ayatholla would sacrifice his own life, his familys life, his relatives lifes and the life of his entire country in order to give hezbolla one nuke? In that case I think he would rather launch the nuke himself.

Yes he would without hesitation, this is the theology of "shahid" martyrdom, and sacrifice in the name of Allah. To believers like him there is no greater good, no greater pursuit of reward in heaven.

**shrpskn** · 01-16-2007, 12:07 PM

Great debate here...

Keep it coming...

**LawMan018** · 01-16-2007, 12:19 PM

Why can't these Middle Eastern morons just live in peace... All I hear about is war, war, war, it's the Jews fault kill them... Wtf? Maybe they need to stop blaming other people and deal with stuff like decent human beings, it's their fault everything is so ****ed up... and Bush

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-16-2007, 02:27 PM

Originally Posted by singern

Yes he would without hesitation, this is the theology of "shahid" martyrdom, and sacrifice in the name of Allah. To believers like him there is no greater good, no greater pursuit of reward in heaven.

Then you assume the Aytaholla is a true belive and that everyone else in power in Iran is also a true beliver. I doubt it. They are probably as true belivers as hussein or arafat. I dont think the ayatholla would go out in media and correct some of ahmajedinads more stupid statements otherwise.

either way if that is the greatest glory I doubt they would give the nuke to hez, they would use it themself. But then again they dont have one to give or use and they wont for a whole lot of years to come.

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-16-2007, 02:49 PM

Has the ayatholla ever said or done anything that suggest he is over the top fanatic crazy?

**Logan13** · 01-16-2007, 03:52 PM

sorry, double post.

**Logan13** · 01-16-2007, 03:53 PM

Originally Posted by johan

Has the ayatholla ever said or done anything that suggest he is over the top fanatic crazy?

The Ayatholla obviously approves of the statements and actions of Ahmenajad since Ahmenajad has maintained the same platform his whole term in office. I don't know Johan, but by all accounts Mohamed Atta was a simple hard-working man. He obviously never made any statements that he wanted to take part in hijacking a plane and flying into a building, but guess what, that's exactly what he did. Michael Devlin, the Missouri man who kidnapped and kept two boys in his home, had fooled everyone around him as well. Many were shocked about what he had done. He certainly did not tell anyone that he wanted to do this, he just did it. There are many, many examples I could use. Why do you always want to throw common sense out the window in cases like this?

**mcpeepants** · 01-16-2007, 06:40 PM

Originally Posted by singern

Well simply put because Iran doesnt consider Hezbolah, AlQaida, Hamas and others to be terrorists. They are considered by Ahmenajad, and the Ayatollah to be "Heros of Islam"
Ahmenajad has already stated publicly he will give Nuke technology to any Islamic nation that wants it, and I belive him.

Giving nuclear technology is not the same as giving nuclear weapons. Hezbollah is not part of the Iranian military so giving them nukes doesn't make sense and it would for any nation. Right after the invasion of Iraq, former president Khatami said the Iran was willing to stop enrichment and cut ties with Hezbollah something he couldn't do without the Ayatollah and clerics permission. It's seems like Hezbollah is expendable to Iran so why would Iran give them a nuke?

**Logan13** · 01-17-2007, 08:04 AM

Originally Posted by mcpeepants

Giving nuclear technology is not the same as giving nuclear weapons. Hezbollah is not part of the Iranian military so giving them nukes doesn't make sense and it would for any nation. Right after the invasion of Iraq, former president Khatami said the Iran was willing to stop enrichment and cut ties with Hezbollah something he couldn't do without the Ayatollah and clerics permission. It's seems like Hezbollah is expendable to Iran so why would Iran give them a nuke?

That is the past, the current Iranian administration obviously has a different agenda.

**mcpeepants** · 01-17-2007, 09:28 AM

Originally Posted by Logan13

That is the past, the current Iranian administration obviously has a different agenda.

Last I heard, Iran is still ruled by the same Ayatollah.

**Logan13** · 01-17-2007, 09:43 AM

Originally Posted by mcpeepants

Last I heard, Iran is still ruled by the same Ayatollah.

And that same Ayatholla seems to be on point with Ahmenajad......

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-17-2007, 09:59 AM

Originally Posted by Logan13

The Ayatholla obviously approves of the statements and actions of Ahmenajad since Ahmenajad has maintained the same platform his whole term in office. I don't know Johan, but by all accounts Mohamed Atta was a simple hard-working man. He obviously never made any statements that he wanted to take part in hijacking a plane and flying into a building, but guess what, that's exactly what he did. Michael Devlin, the Missouri man who kidnapped and kept two boys in his home, had fooled everyone around him as well. Many were shocked about what he had done. He certainly did not tell anyone that he wanted to do this, he just did it. There are many, many examples I could use. Why do you always want to throw common sense out the window in cases like this?

The ayatholla has corected ahmeajads statements so he doent seem to agree with him.

Also I dont think I throw comon sense out the window. I just dont assume things about people. Without proof there is nothing. I have no reason to belive the ayatholla is a nutcase. He seems to be just another power hungry dude that uses religion in order to keep power.

**Logan13** · 01-17-2007, 10:11 AM

Originally Posted by johan

The ayatholla has corected ahmeajads statements so he doent seem to agree with him.

Also I dont think I throw comon sense out the window. I just dont assume things about people. Without proof there is nothing. I have no reason to belive the ayatholla is a nutcase. He seems to be just another power hungry dude that uses religion in order to keep power.

Anyone who uses religion in this fashion, regardless of the which religion it is, concerns me. So if the US would have thrown Mohammad Atta out of the country, would you have condemned the US for doing so without any "concrete proof" since Atta never made his agenda public?

**Logan13** · 01-17-2007, 10:12 AM

Originally Posted by johan

The ayatholla has corected ahmeajads statements so he doent seem to agree with him.

When did he do this?

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-17-2007, 11:13 AM

Originally Posted by Logan13

When did he do this?

when ahmajine made that wipe israel of the map statement the ayatholla a day or two after said that iran do not under any circumstance want to start any hostilities with israel.

When ahmablah scream and shout about iran going nuclear the ayatholla repedeatly state that nuclear weapons is against islam and that iran do not want them.

Thats the two cases that pop into my mind. The ayatholla sure seems eager to make sure no one thinks iran want to start hostilities with anyone. Maby he is smarter than big mouth?

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-17-2007, 11:14 AM

Originally Posted by Logan13

Anyone who uses religion in this fashion, regardless of the which religion it is, concerns me. So if the US would have thrown Mohammad Atta out of the country, would you have condemned the US for doing so without any "concrete proof" since Atta never made his agenda public?

No offcourse I would not. he wasnt even a citizen right? I dont give a shit about who usa kicks out or not.

But if you want to possibly attack a country because the leader is religiously nutty then there has to be proof that the leader is religiously nutty and having wet dreams about beeing a big martyr of islam.

**Logan13** · 01-17-2007, 11:49 AM

Originally Posted by johan

No offcourse I would not. he wasnt even a citizen right? I dont give a shit about who usa kicks out or not.

But if you want to possibly attack a country because the leader is religiously nutty then there has to be proof that the leader is religiously nutty and having wet dreams about beeing a big martyr of islam.

I never said anything about attacking Iran.

**Kärnfysikern** · 01-17-2007, 12:33 PM

I know. But if you truly belive the ayatholla wants to build nukes and wants to give them to hez because of his supposed religious convinction then I assume you would use that as a argument for a attack?

Seems to me the ayatholla gives ahmajinead some room to exercise his mouth in order to rile up the people a bit. But I doubt he is insane.

**singern** · 01-18-2007, 09:52 AM

Originally Posted by johan

Seems to me the ayatholla gives ahmajinead some room to exercise his mouth in order to rile up the people a bit. But I doubt he is insane.

Insane, no...but a religious zealot is just as dangerous because of unyielding conviction... We all know religion has been the root of more war and death than any other reason. When you combine this with the millennia old brainwashing hatred of Israelis/Jews, you begin to understand the real danger here.