Sen. Clinton calls for equal federal benefits for gay couples

[Prada]

http://pageoneq.com/news/2008/Sen._C..._cou_0403.html

Clinton says she will defend gay rights

Clinton Says She Will Eliminate Disparities for Same-Sex Couples in Federal Law

NEDRA PICKLER
AP News

Apr 03, 2008 16:55 EST

Democratic Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton said she would defend gay rights as president and eliminate disparities for same-sex couples in federal law, including immigration and tax policy.

Clinton said states such as New Jersey and Massachusetts are extending rights to gay couples "and the federal government should recognize that and should extend the same access to federal benefits across the board. I will very much work to achieve that."

Clinton's comments came in an interview with the Philadelphia Gay News that was posted on its Web site Thursday.

Clinton said she and her husband have many gay friends that they socialize with when they get the chance. "I've got friends, literally, around the country that I'm close to. It's part of my life," she said.

She said that when they ask her why they can't get married, she tells them marriage is a state law. She said that fact helped defeat a constitutional amendment to prohibit same-sex weddings that she said would "enshrine discrimination in the Constitution."

"States are really beginning seriously to deal with the whole range of options, including marriage, both under their own state constitutions and under the legislative approach," she said. "I anticipate that there will be a very concerted amount of effort in the next couple of years that will move this important issue forward and different states will take different approaches as they did with marriage over many years and you will see an evolution over time."

Clinton said she opposes a measure that would ban gay marriage in Pennsylvania.

"I would be very distressed if Pennsylvania were to adopt that kind of mean-spirited referendum and I hope it won't happen," she said.

Clinton's Democratic rival Barack Obama and Republican John McCain declined the newspaper's invitation for an interview. The paper criticized Obama and highlighted his refusal to talk by leaving a blank space on the front page where his interview would have appeared.

Clinton also said she would:

_ Eliminate her husband's policy of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" that prevents gays from serving openly in the military. Asked if she could do so by a signing order connected to a military appropriations bill, Clinton said she didn't think that is possible but she would look into it and do it if it were legal.

_ Be "very strongly outspoken" against foreign governments that execute gays and use financial assistance and other leverage to prevent the killings.

_ Support federal domestic partner legislation to extend rights to all same-sex couples.

_ Support services for gay youth, including guidance for schools about the discrimination they face.

_ Continue to support gay pride celebrations, to the extent that security would allow. "I don't think the Secret Service let Bill walk in a parade when he became president," she said.

[Amorphic]

while its always a good idea to push for bills that allow for equal rights between blacks and whites, homosexuals and heterosexuals etc, the real challenge is changing society's negative attitudes towards these minority groups.

as we've seen with race, on paper and the law they are just as equal, but society has still yet to catch up to the standard that has been set. this is no different i think.

[Dangercat00]

I think this is one of those situations where Hillary just wants to get a higher vote among homosexuals. Obviously Obama supports the same thing, she just wants the media to look at her and say "Wow, what a compassionate American! Gay people should definitely vote for her!" When it comes down to it, like Amorphic said, its a societal issue more than anything else.

[intensityfreak]

while its always a good idea to push for bills that allow for equal rights between blacks and whites, homosexuals and heterosexuals etc, the real challenge is changing society's negative attitudes towards these minority groups.

as we've seen with race, on paper and the law they are just as equal, but society has still yet to catch up to the standard that has been set. this is no different i think.

black and white isn't a sin against god. being homo is. screw that hillary has diffinatly lost my vote for is.

[thegodfather]

black and white isn't a sin against god. being homo is. screw that hillary has diffinatly lost my vote for is.

Keep your right wing close minded religious fundamentalist opinions to yourself. There are several well respected homosexual members on this message board. You have no right to tell other people how to live or to try and impose your 5,000 year old ideology onto other people through legislation. People like you, make me sick.

[Act of God]

In before the Carlos lock!

The Federal Government shouldn't be giving benefits to any couples, but if they are...might as well be fair to everyone.

[shifty_git]

while its always a good idea to push for bills that allow for equal rights between blacks and whites, homosexuals and heterosexuals etc, the real challenge is changing society's negative attitudes towards these minority groups.

as we've seen with race, on paper and the law they are just as equal, but society has still yet to catch up to the standard that has been set. this is no different i think.

Keep your right wing close minded religious fundamentalist opinions to yourself. There are several well respected homosexual members on this message board. You have no right to tell other people how to live or to try and impose your 5,000 year old ideology onto other people through legislation. People like you, make me sick.

Both good posts.

My only input on this one is the politicians say ANYTHING to get those few more votes right b4 an election.

Tony Blair here in the UK is a prime example.
(No new tax's or tax's increases was his promise.. over 80 different tax increases later its obvious it was a lie to get votes)

[Prada]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as it is expressed in a mature and non-derogatory way. Keep it civil guys.

Dangercat, at the same time she might lose a lot of the somewhat conservative votes that jumped ship or that had an interest in her. They might view this stance to be against religious values and so on.

[kfrost06]

Everyone is entitled to their opinion as long as it is expressed in a mature and non-derogatory way. Keep it civil guys.

Dangercat, at the same time she might lose a lot of the somewhat conservative votes that jumped ship or that had an interest in her. They might view this stance to be against religious values and so on.

very good point Prada. No way are we all going to agree on issues but we should be able to disagree in a civil manner. Save the mud slinging for the politicians, they are very good at it.

[intensityfreak]

Keep your right wing close minded religious fundamentalist opinions to yourself. There are several well respected homosexual members on this message board. You have no right to tell other people how to live or to try and impose your 5,000 year old ideology onto other people through legislation. People like you, make me sick.

yea your right i dont have the right to tell poeple how to live, but the bible does. i think its funny how the only people that thinks its right gays. i have a gay friend and i talk to him and he knows its against god and he says he cant help who he loves and i feel for him.im not against gays at all. i love every one.im a real good guy i dont hate anyone. just think that if i support hillary for this would be trying to help a cause that god doesn't allow. dud i want you to put your hand on the bible and tell me that you truly beleive being gay is perfectly okay.
good made adam and eve to be togetor not adam and adam. not closed minded at all eithor just cant see homo as being in the vision of god. what good comes from it, aids, hiv let me know what good does it do for the world.

[intensityfreak]

Both good posts.

My only input on this one is the politicians say ANYTHING to get those few more votes right b4 an election.

Tony Blair here in the UK is a prime example.
(No new tax's or tax's increases was his promise.. over 80 different tax increases later its obvious it was a lie to get votes)

if that was the case Hillary lost votes. their is so many religious groups out protesting right now against Hillary for this. i could be wrong about this but i read that hillary lost 13% of her women votes because of the religious views.

[Kärnfysikern]

yea your right i dont have the right to tell poeple how to live, but the bible does. i think its funny how the only people that thinks its right gays. i have a gay friend and i talk to him and he knows its against god and he says he cant help who he loves and i feel for him.im not against gays at all. i love every one.im a real good guy i dont hate anyone. just think that if i support hillary for this would be trying to help a cause that god doesn't allow. dud i want you to put your hand on the bible and tell me that you truly beleive being gay is perfectly okay.
good made adam and eve to be togetor not adam and adam. not closed minded at all eithor just cant see homo as being in the vision of god. what good comes from it, aids, hiv let me know what good does it do for the world.

The bible doesnt have a right to tell anyone how to live their life. Its up to everyone if they want to belive in that particular book, but it doesnt give anyone beliving in it the right to push those oppinion on others.

[BgMc31]

For all the bible-thumpers that justify their intolerance and support of discrimination by invoking gods name...1. How does homosexuality effect YOU directly? 2. If you are going to follow that couple passages in the bible literally, how come you don't follow EVERYTHING in the book, literally (hypocrites)? 3. Everyone doesn't believe in your god or his teachings that is why we have freedom of religion. You cannot impose your beliefs on me if I don't subscribe to those beliefs. 4. Being homosexual is perfectly ok with me and I'll put my hand on anyone's holy book and testify to that. I would steer clear from anyone religion that wants you to love and accept everyone but then turn around and put stipulations on that love (again hypocrisy at its finest).

And no I'm not gay. I vehemently oppose any and all forms of discrimination. Just like I'll fight for a klansman's right to free speech, no matter how hateful, I'll will fight for anyone's right for equal protection and treatment under the law. Its about time people stood up for what this country said it was founded on but has never lived up to!

[intensityfreak]

[QUOTE=BgMc31;3909743]For all the bible-thumpers that justify their intolerance and support of discrimination by invoking gods name...1. How does homosexuality effect YOU directly? 2. If you are going to follow that couple passages in the bible literally, how come you don't follow EVERYTHING in the book, literally (hypocrites)? 3. Everyone doesn't believe in your god or his teachings that is why we have freedom of religion. You cannot impose your beliefs on me if I don't subscribe to those beliefs. 4. Being homosexual is perfectly ok with me and I'll put my hand on anyone's holy book and testify to that. I would steer clear from anyone religion that wants you to love and accept everyone but then turn around and put stipulations on that love (again hypocrisy at its finest).

And no I'm not gay. I vehemently oppose any and all forms of discrimination. Just like I'll fight for a klansman's right to free speech, no matter how hateful, I'll will fight for anyone's right for equal protection and treatment under the law. Its about time people stood up for what this country said it was founded on but has never lived up to![/QUOTE

its funny, you would stand up for a klansman's rights even though they are one of the biggest groups that promote discrimination and violence witch you claim you hate. thats rediculous. personally i dont hate anyone not even racist people. but when they act on violence i would put a gun to thier head and pull the trigger. but gays i have no ploblem whit, they are humans with feeling also as humans i just dont agree with what they do. and as for you can you find me any book of any religion that says its okay to be gay. thanks

[Amorphic]

its funny, you would stand up for a klansman's rights even though they are one of the biggest groups that promote discrimination and violence witch you claim you hate. thats rediculous. personally i dont hate anyone not even racist people. but when they act on violence i would put a gun to thier head and pull the trigger. but gays i have no ploblem whit, they are humans with feeling also as humans i just dont agree with what they do. and as for you can you find me any book of any religion that says its okay to be gay. thanks

find me some evidence that your religion is true and then you'll have an argument.

[Kärnfysikern]

its funny, you would stand up for a klansman's rights even though they are one of the biggest groups that promote discrimination and violence witch you claim you hate. thats rediculous. personally i dont hate anyone not even racist people. but when they act on violence i would put a gun to thier head and pull the trigger. but gays i have no ploblem whit, they are humans with feeling also as humans i just dont agree with what they do. and as for you can you find me any book of any religion that says its okay to be gay. thanks

Why does that even matter?

[Red Ketchup]

yea your right i dont have the right to tell poeple how to live, but the bible does.

What the hell have you been smoking skippy?

Since when does a ficticious story book (which you for some reason CHOOSE to believe as "fact") have any rights to tell people how to live their lives?

Last I heard in the USA and in most civilised countries, the bible is not law. It holds no legal standing in any courts. As a matter of fact, in the US the separation of church and state is even legislated!

And seeing the vitriolic intolerance of your fellow men you display here, it's pretty obvious that the messages of tolerance, forgiveness and love contained in the Good Book are pretty well wasted on you...

Red

[BgMc31]

[QUOTE=intensityfreak;3909942]

For all the bible-thumpers that justify their intolerance and support of discrimination by invoking gods name...1. How does homosexuality effect YOU directly? 2. If you are going to follow that couple passages in the bible literally, how come you don't follow EVERYTHING in the book, literally (hypocrites)? 3. Everyone doesn't believe in your god or his teachings that is why we have freedom of religion. You cannot impose your beliefs on me if I don't subscribe to those beliefs. 4. Being homosexual is perfectly ok with me and I'll put my hand on anyone's holy book and testify to that. I would steer clear from anyone religion that wants you to love and accept everyone but then turn around and put stipulations on that love (again hypocrisy at its finest).

And no I'm not gay. I vehemently oppose any and all forms of discrimination. Just like I'll fight for a klansman's right to free speech, no matter how hateful, I'll will fight for anyone's right for equal protection and treatment under the law. Its about time people stood up for what this country said it was founded on but has never lived up to![/QUOTE

its funny, you would stand up for a klansman's rights even though they are one of the biggest groups that promote discrimination and violence witch you claim you hate. thats rediculous. personally i dont hate anyone not even racist people. but when they act on violence i would put a gun to thier head and pull the trigger. but gays i have no ploblem whit, they are humans with feeling also as humans i just dont agree with what they do. and as for you can you find me any book of any religion that says its okay to be gay. thanks

Not only ignorant, obviously you have no reading comprehension skills as well. 1st, I didn't say I support the Klans violent actions, I said I support their right to say what they want because I believe in this country's freedom of speech
2nd, I never claimed any holy book supported homosexuality. I DID say it doesn't matter if any or all of them said it because it has zero affect on society.

So in order for anyone to justify not allowing a group of people equal right, you must prove that giving those people equal rights has a negative impact on society and diminishes the greater good. I eagerly await your rebuttal...

[Tock]

black and white isn't a sin against god. being homo is.

Maybe it's a sin against your god.
It isn't against mine.

Let me take this opportunity to call your god a dumb f---. And if your god doesn't like it, your god can strike me dead in my sleep tonight.

I'll talk to ya tomorrow . . .

[Tock]

Originally Posted by intensityfreak
black and white isn't a sin against god. being homo is. screw that hillary has diffinatly lost my vote for is.

Keep your right wing close minded religious fundamentalist opinions to yourself. There are several well respected homosexual members on this message board. You have no right to tell other people how to live or to try and impose your 5,000 year old ideology onto other people through legislation. People like you, make me sick.

Intensityfreak is fine -- I'll bet he's a pretty good guy at heart. It's his god that's screwed up.

[shifty_git]

Maybe it's a sin against your god.
It isn't against mine.

Let me take this opportunity to call your god a dumb f---. And if your god doesn't like it, your god can strike me dead in my sleep tonight.

I'll talk to ya tomorrow . . .

Unless his god strikes u down of course! lol

[Tock]

i think its funny how the only people that thinks its right gays.

You're kidding, right?

i have a gay friend and i talk to him and he knows its against god and he says he cant help who he loves and i feel for him.im not against gays at all.

Your friend would benefit greatly from a more accurate understanding of the Bible.
Turn him on to this website:

http://www.mccchurch.org/AM/Template...&ContentID=629

Homosexuality: Not a Sin, Not a Sickness

by Rev. Elder Don Eastman

A growing number of biblical and theological scholars now recognize that Scripture does not condemn loving, responsible homosexual relationships. Therefore, gay men and lesbians should be accepted - just as they are-in Christian churches, and homosexual relationships should be celebrated and affirmed!
~ Rev. Elder Don Eastman, Homosexuality: Not a Sin, Not a Sickness
A classic essay on homosexuality in the Bible, Rev. Elder Eastman's concise and affirming wisdom is a staple for anyone desiring deeper understanding of what the Bible really says. Originally released in 1990, this resource has been re-edited and re-released for the 2005 audience.

Homosexuality; Not A Sin, Not A Sickness
by Rev. Elder Don Eastman
©Copyright 1990

[intensityfreak]

[QUOTE=BgMc31;3910144]

Not only ignorant, obviously you have no reading comprehension skills as well. 1st, I didn't say I support the Klans violent actions, I said I support their right to say what they want because I believe in this country's freedom of speech
2nd, I never claimed any holy book supported homosexuality. I DID say it doesn't matter if any or all of them said it because it has zero affect on society.

So in order for anyone to justify not allowing a group of people equal right, you must prove that giving those people equal rights has a negative impact on society and diminishes the greater good. I eagerly await your rebuttal...

no dummy, i know what you said. you would support the klans freedom of speech not thier violence. but if your so smart witch you think you are you would no that when they do speak they are promoting hatred and violence. "unless you think there telling us to love everybody"
and when you say" it doesn't matter if the holy book says it or not cause it has zero affect on society, by you saying that basically your saying FU * K the bible. i know you dont think thats what you said but go back and read it again and tell me what your really sayin.

last thing to everybody, you say my god is messed up, but please please please go out and find me a god or religion thats says it okay to have same sex marriage or same sex period. please do that and let me know. yea i do know of one religion that thinks it allowed and those are the same poeple who are banging little boys in the ass so i have a hard time trusting them.

[intensityfreak]

sssorry made too

[intensityfreak]

You're kidding, right?






Your friend would benefit greatly from a more accurate understanding of the Bible.
Turn him on to this website:

http://www.mccchurch.org/AM/Template...&ContentID=629

Homosexuality: Not a Sin, Not a Sickness

by Rev. Elder Don Eastman

A growing number of biblical and theological scholars now recognize that Scripture does not condemn loving, responsible homosexual relationships. Therefore, gay men and lesbians should be accepted - just as they are-in Christian churches, and homosexual relationships should be celebrated and affirmed!
~ Rev. Elder Don Eastman, Homosexuality: Not a Sin, Not a Sickness
A classic essay on homosexuality in the Bible, Rev. Elder Eastman's concise and affirming wisdom is a staple for anyone desiring deeper understanding of what the Bible really says. Originally released in 1990, this resource has been re-edited and re-released for the 2005 audience.

Homosexuality; Not A Sin, Not A Sickness
by Rev. Elder Don Eastman
©Copyright 1990

thats the biggest load of crap i've ever heard. it's almost funny to me that poeple always seem to find a deeper understanding of the bible to fit their needs.

also poeple no way shape or form do i hate or even dislike gays. i have stood up for them so many times when they were getting bashed. also i am not on here trying to argue if i think gay is right or wrong i am arguing the fact if the bible says its right or wrong. personally i could care less if gays wanted to get married and what not.thats all. i care for everyone that doesn't promote hatred towards another. like the klan. i would personally shoot every last one of them in the head. cause they do have a negative affect on society.

[Amorphic]

thats the biggest load of crap i've ever heard. it's almost funny to me that poeple always seem to find a deeper understanding of the bible to fit their needs.

also poeple no way shape or form do i hate or even dislike gays. i have stood up for them so many times when they were getting bashed. also i am not on here trying to argue if i think gay is right or wrong i am arguing the fact if the bible says its right or wrong. personally i could care less if gays wanted to get married and what not.thats all. i care for everyone that doesn't promote hatred towards another. like the klan. i would personally shoot every last one of them in the head. cause they do have a negative affect on society.

i'm still waiting for you to prove that the contents of the bible hold any merit. you cant even prove the religion you believe in is even remotely based on any kind of fact or reality....the sad reality being that the bible is a bunch of bs.

let me know when you figure things out so that your argument about homosexuality being religiously wrong can hold some merit.

[pump.joe]

For all the bible-thumpers that justify their intolerance and support of discrimination by invoking gods name...1. How does homosexuality effect YOU directly? 2. If you are going to follow that couple passages in the bible literally, how come you don't follow EVERYTHING in the book, literally (hypocrites)? 3. Everyone doesn't believe in your god or his teachings that is why we have freedom of religion. You cannot impose your beliefs on me if I don't subscribe to those beliefs. 4. Being homosexual is perfectly ok with me and I'll put my hand on anyone's holy book and testify to that. I would steer clear from anyone religion that wants you to love and accept everyone but then turn around and put stipulations on that love (again hypocrisy at its finest).

And no I'm not gay. I vehemently oppose any and all forms of discrimination.

Right on, bro.

[shifty_git]

^^^^ agree, was a great post.

We are all human, and how we treat others is how we should be judged, not selective love.

[BgMc31]

[QUOTE=intensityfreak;3910366]

no dummy, i know what you said. you would support the klans freedom of speech not thier violence. but if your so smart witch you think you are you would no that when they do speak they are promoting hatred and violence. "unless you think there telling us to love everybody"
and when you say" it doesn't matter if the holy book says it or not cause it has zero affect on society, by you saying that basically your saying FU * K the bible. i know you dont think thats what you said but go back and read it again and tell me what your really sayin.

last thing to everybody, you say my god is messed up, but please please please go out and find me a god or religion thats says it okay to have same sex marriage or same sex period. please do that and let me know. yea i do know of one religion that thinks it allowed and those are the same poeple who are banging little boys in the ass so i have a hard time trusting them.

you just proved your ignorance. There is a difference between pedophilia and homosexuality.

I wasn't debating that there is a religion that supports homosexuality. The question I asked you is what does it matter? I and three others on here have noted the seperation between church and state. And you have still yet to answer the question of what negative impact does homosexuality have on society at large? You base your whole argument on a book written by men over 2000yrs ago? C'mon dude, really?

[Prada]

very good point Prada. No way are we all going to agree on issues but we should be able to disagree in a civil manner. Save the mud slinging for the politicians, they are very good at it.

Agreed.

Its really sad that one cant have a mature debate on here. There is always a few individuals that have to commence name calling and insulting. Which leads to threads being locked. Id rather see them not be locked but the members be suspended. Why should others have to pay for the immaturity of a select few?

This thread will surely get locked but Id rather see the 2-3 individuals destroying it be suspended or banned. If you are not mature enough to respect the opinions of others you surely shouldn ot be on an AAS board.

[Amorphic]

Agreed.

Its really sad that one cant have a mature debate on here. There is always a few individuals that have to commence name calling and insulting. Which leads to threads being locked. Id rather see them not be locked but the members be suspended. Why should others have to pay for the immaturity of a select few?

This thread will surely get locked but Id rather see the 2-3 individuals destroying it be suspended or banned. If you are not mature enough to respect the opinions of others you surely shouldn ot be on an AAS board.

so very true.

[kfrost06]

Agreed.

Its really sad that one cant have a mature debate on here. There is always a few individuals that have to commence name calling and insulting. Which leads to threads being locked. Id rather see them not be locked but the members be suspended. Why should others have to pay for the immaturity of a select few?

This thread will surely get locked but Id rather see the 2-3 individuals destroying it be suspended or banned. If you are not mature enough to respect the opinions of others you surely shouldn ot be on an AAS board.

even worse is when you find yourself getting drawn into it and then !! You come back the next day and read your post and what was I thinking I try to just avoid those threads now and avoid posting when on halotestin . I do soo love discussing the current hot topics and it's more fun to do so with someone that has an opposing point of view but like you said a few can ruin it. To be honest I have been that one sometimes but the name calling is something that I just don't agree with, argue the topic not the person. With that said, see you F'n losers tomorrow

[intensityfreak]

[QUOTE=BgMc31;3910485]

you just proved your ignorance. There is a difference between pedophilia and homosexuality.

I wasn't debating that there is a religion that supports homosexuality. The question I asked you is what does it matter? I and three others on here have noted the seperation between church and state. And you have still yet to answer the question of what negative impact does homosexuality have on society at large? You base your whole argument on a book written by men over 2000yrs ago? C'mon dude, really?

e

dud i dont know where your getting this crap from or whats going through your brain and stop saying the same thing cause you dont have an explanation. im going to clear this up for the last time and answer everyones questions.

1) what negative impact does it have on the society?
dang near none, only the spread of a virus that kills over a million people a year and that has no cure, it only have yet to reach 2 million, so no big deal about that. also would you think that thier is more positives or negatives out of homosexuality


2) what does it matter?[/U][/B]
if they get equal rights it really doesn't matter to me personaly at all cause i dont care and i do think that all men should be equal, but for those in America that knows the same god that i do witch is more than 3/4 of the US population would view it as being wrong to vote for someone who supports such a thing that thier god says is wrong. But personally if i was a atheist it wouldn't matter at all i would still vote for hillary.
notice the difference i said that i think poeple should be equal but thats not enough for me to go against what i was raised in to beliving.

3) Can i prove that anything in the bible is true?
well im not even gonna tell you how i know form a bible contex so the only way that i know is this wierd word that eveyone talks about, uh yea "FAITH" example of faith for you athiest. have you ever knew something that you really didn't know for me its football, somehow i just knew my team would win the natinals dont know how but i knew and at the end it did happend. maybe not a good example but im getting tired.

just some words of my thoughts: how can you believe nothing, i've fought in wars and seen what poeple do to each other, i belive because i know thier is something better out there than all this. the world will end, then what? i have seen gays in the millary get the shit kicked out of them from what they do. yea it wrong but nothing is going to change that, no equal rights or laws to help them be safe. nothing they are always going to be in danger. we would rather see two 400lbs wemon kissing in public and they would be safe. but let two guys do it. thier lucky if they make it home. thier is and will never be a place in society for gays, they will always be looked at as outcast's and will always be in danger. period thats just the way it is. i could be wrong but i think thats how it is. i cant picture a society were woman&man, woman&woman or man&man can walk around outside and kiss and hold hands without the feeling of danger or acceptance.
also i am not against gays or dislike them at all and if you dont agree no need to name drop and diss, also sorry if i afended anyone. well i guess back to the steroids then huh.lol

[BgMc31]

[QUOTE=intensityfreak;3910699]

e

dud i dont know where your getting this crap from or whats going through your brain and stop saying the same thing cause you dont have an explanation. im going to clear this up for the last time and answer everyones questions.

1) what negative impact does it have on the society?
dang near none, only the spread of a virus that kills over a million people a year and that has no cure, it only have yet to reach 2 million, so no big deal about that. also would you think that thier is more positives or negatives out of homosexuality


2) what does it matter?[/U][/B]
if they get equal rights it really doesn't matter to me personaly at all cause i dont care and i do think that all men should be equal, but for those in America that knows the same god that i do witch is more than 3/4 of the US population would view it as being wrong to vote for someone who supports such a thing that thier god says is wrong. But personally if i was a atheist it wouldn't matter at all i would still vote for hillary.
notice the difference i said that i think poeple should be equal but thats not enough for me to go against what i was raised in to beliving.

3) Can i prove that anything in the bible is true?
well im not even gonna tell you how i know form a bible contex so the only way that i know is this wierd word that eveyone talks about, uh yea "FAITH" example of faith for you athiest. have you ever knew something that you really didn't know for me its football, somehow i just knew my team would win the natinals dont know how but i knew and at the end it did happend. maybe not a good example but im getting tired.

just some words of my thoughts: how can you believe nothing, i've fought in wars and seen what poeple do to each other, i belive because i know thier is something better out there than all this. the world will end, then what? i have seen gays in the millary get the shit kicked out of them from what they do. yea it wrong but nothing is going to change that, no equal rights or laws to help them be safe. nothing they are always going to be in danger. we would rather see two 400lbs wemon kissing in public and they would be safe. but let two guys do it. thier lucky if they make it home. thier is and will never be a place in society for gays, they will always be looked at as outcast's and will always be in danger. period thats just the way it is. i could be wrong but i think thats how it is. i cant picture a society were woman&man, woman&woman or man&man can walk around outside and kiss and hold hands without the feeling of danger or acceptance.
also i am not against gays or dislike them at all and if you dont agree no need to name drop and diss, also sorry if i afended anyone. well i guess back to the steroids then huh.lol

Are you really that dense? I've stated my arguments and back them up. You either lack the ability to comprehend or simply blind. And you further proved your ignorance by bringing up the AIDS/HIV issue. Pick up a book and you'll find there are many more heterosexuals infected with the viruses than homosexuals.

I'm done trying to debate this with you because its obvious you are unwilling to see the truth and will always use your religion to justify intolerance.

[intensityfreak]

okay i tried to be civil but you are a moron and clearly must be homo, you have not proved any argument all you did was tell what think is correct. as i said above poeple pick and choose what they want to belive and hear. yea im not stupid i no thiers more than homo's that spread the disease everyone knows that, all i did was answer you question you so desperatly wanted me to answer. which was , What negative effect does homo's have on society? now you tell me is that a negative effect or not. well is it. matter of fact i want you to send me a list of positives effeects on society and i will send a list of negatives and well see witch one is begger. we will settle this like that. yea you know mine will be bigger cause thier is know positives of that? just name one, ill be waiting? dont just say im igronant over and oversend me some positives of it then ill be quit? go ahead

[intensityfreak]

Maybe it's a sin against your god.
It isn't against mine.

Let me take this opportunity to call your god a dumb f---. And if your god doesn't like it, your god can strike me dead in my sleep tonight.

I'll talk to ya tomorrow . . .

quick question, who is your god. what is your religion i would like to research it.

[Tock]

please go out and find me a god or religion thats says it okay to have same sex marriage or same sex period.

Here's some info from Wikipedia:

Paganism
In Classical antiquity, religious views on same-sex romance cannot be separated from the general societal view of the subject. Attitudes toward same-sex intercourse differed somewhat between the Greeks and the Romans. In ancient Greece same-sex love was integrated in sacred texts and rituals, reflecting the fact that in antiquity it was considered normal to be open to romantic engagements with either sex. Certain surviving myths depict homosexual bonds (see History), sanctified by divinities modeling such relationships (e.g. Zeus and Ganymede). The Romans viewed sexuality somewhat differently. It was considered appropriate for someone of higher social standing to sexually penetrate someone of lower social standing. Thus, an upper-class male could engage in sexual relations with either a slave or a woman (both below him in standing). It would be inappropriate and indeed condemned for a free Roman man to be penetrated by another man.

The Sumerian religion also held homosexuality sacred. It also was incorporated into various New World religions, such as the Aztec. It is thought to have been common in shamanic practice. In part due to the spread of mideival Christianity there is no clear record of homosexuality in ancient Germanic Paganism. On one hand effeminate and homosexual men were deemed capable of performing a powerful type of female sorcery, called seid; however the trickster and occasional transsexual God Loki accused Norse Paganism's grand patriarch Odin of engaging in the same kind of sorcery.

Neopagan religion

Neopagan religions are almost unanimous in their acceptance of same-sex relationships as equal to heterosexual ones. Most Neo-Pagan religions have the theme of fertility (both physical and creative/spiritual) as central to their practices, and as such encourage a healthy sex life, which is seen as consensual sex between adults, regardless of gender or age. Another New Age perspective, however, is that of Eckhart Tolle, author of The Power of Now. Starting with the idea that "the realization that you are 'different' from others may force you to disidentify from socially conditioned patterns of thought and behavior," he claims that being gay can help in the "quest for enlightenment", but only so long as one does not "develop a sense of identity based on... gayness".
Wicca, like other religious philosophies has a spectrum of adherents including those with conservative views to liberal views. Nothing in Wiccan philosophy prohibits sexual intercourse outside of marriage or relationships between members of the same sex, however. On the contrary, the Wiccan Rede "An it harm none, do as thou wilt" is interpreted by many to allow and endorse responsible sexual relationships of all varieties.
The Charge of the Goddess, says in the words of the Goddess, "all acts of love and pleasure are my rituals"[36] and in the Gardnerian and Alexandrian forms of Wicca, "The Great Rite" is a way of expressing love through sexuality. The ritual is not an excuse to have sex with someone, nor is any sexual activity in a properly consecrated circle a Great Rite.[37] Any sexual acts dealing with Wicca, whether literal or symbolic, is encouraged to take place between two consenting adults, even more so with two involved lovers.
The Wiccan attitude about sexuality as wholly natural, and goes on from there to seek a fuller understanding of masculine-feminine polarity and of how to make constructive use of it — both psychologically and magically. Sexuality freed from the shackles of obligatory breeding is what makes us specifically human.[38]
Other religions collectively termed "Pagan," including Druidism are also accepting in general.

[Tock]

also i am not against gays or dislike them at all and if you dont agree no need to name drop and diss, also sorry if i afended anyone. well i guess back to the steroids then huh.lol

Nope, I'm not offended.

I can tell that you and I come from different backgrounds and consequently have different ideas about things. But should you have the same opinions about things as me? No. Should I have the same opinions about things as you? In my humble opinion, No.


But I'll tell you what makes sense to me: Determinism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Determinism
Determinism (also called antiserendipity) is the philosophical proposition that every event, including human cognition and behavior, decision and action, is causally determined by an unbroken chain of prior occurrences.

It makes a lot more sense than the Christian fundamentalism I was taught years ago, where preachers told me:

1) the Bible is 100% true
2) the Bible has no errors whatsoever

. . . and then when I read scriptures like:

Matt 18:19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven.

. . . yet, when two of Jesus' followers "agree," nothing happens.

Lots of people "beleive" in the Ten Commandments, and beleive that you and I should comply with all ten of them. However, very few of them actually know what they are, and even fewer comply with the Commandments themselves.

For instance, do you keep the Sabbath the way the Old Testament commands?
8 Remember the Sabbath day and keep it holy.
9 For six days you shall labour and do all your work.
10 But the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God; you shall not do any work—you, your son or your daughter, your male or female slave, your livestock, or the alien resident in your towns.

And, do you ever covet other folk's stuff?
17 You shall not covet your neighbour’s house; you shall not covet your neighbour’s wife, or male or female slave, or ox, or donkey, or anything that belongs to your neighbour.

Should US law be based on the Ten Commandments, even the one that states:
3 Do not have any other gods before me.
If so, then we're gonna have to round up a lot of people for nothing other than blasphemy.


After studying the Bible for a number of years (I almost became a preacher myself) I concluded that it didn't make any sense if it was supposed to be 100% error-free, and if I was supposed to comply with everything it dictated. The Bible's promises were not kept, and lots of other things in its pages made no sense. So, I changed my opinion about the Bible, and I've been a lot happier ever since.

I am hopeful that you will have the occasion to examine your own beleifs and ultimately trade your fundamentalist opinions for notions that make more sense.

[Tock]

just some words of my thoughts: how can you believe nothing,

It's not that non-beleivers "beleive in nothing." Instead, we wait for information that makes sense before accepting it as true.

[Kärnfysikern]

last thing to everybody, you say my god is messed up, but please please please go out and find me a god or religion thats says it okay to have same sex marriage or same sex period. please do that and let me know.

And again I ask, why does it matter? Why should anyone not religious care about what is written in a religious book? Jews and muslims dont eat pork, I dont care and eat it anyway. The abrahamic religions thinks gays are bad, doesnt bother me. The norse and the aztec religions demand sacrifices, not something Im going to lose sleep over. Buddhism wants us to give up all material things, fat chance!

I assume you dont worry about eating pork and isnt prone to ritual sacrifises, so why should anyone not following your religion care about your religions view on homosexuality?

thier is and will never be a place in society for gays, they will always be looked at as outcast's and will always be in danger. period thats just the way it is. i could be wrong but i think thats how it is.

There are societies historicaly where beeing homosexual wasnt a sensitive issue. The roman empire for instance, perhaphs the most succesfull society in human history.

Now I can say that in sweden nobody is in danger for beeing gay. Sure we got dickheads here aswell of course and I bet its no fun beeing gay in high school etc. But if two guys kiss on the street most people wouldnt care. Things can get better and more tolerant, but there is no reason to assume its impossible to achieve a society where sexual preference doesnt matter.