State Militia's (vid)

[Panzerfaust]

There is a video on CNN.com today about the Michigan Militia...

I am 100% in agreement with them, before people point and call them "Extremists", stop and realise that that is exactly what our forefathers were considered when they chose to revolt and protect themselves.

Here is a YouTube clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3QfWeFxlf4

[Flagg]

There is a video on CNN.com today about the Michigan Militia...

I am 100% in agreement with them, before people point and call them "Extremists", stop and realise that that is exactly what our forefathers were considered when they chose to revolt and protect themselves.

Here is a YouTube clip

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p3QfWeFxlf4

I hope this video gets better Murillo, cause ive stopped at 1:41 with "uh, anytime we get a Democratic President into the office..."

I cant stand that fvcking shit. Can't that redneck dickhead see it makes no difference if Republicans are in?

*continues watching*

Edit: Well I agree with some points, I think you guys should be worried about the Constitution but that's been a worry for awhile now, not since Obama came to power. But hey, Obama has the Peace Prize now! At least the rest of the world is trynna keep him on a short leesh!

[Kratos]

why's he a redneck dickhead because he states the fact that they see an increase in numbers anytime there is a dem pres.?
Just stating the fact.

I think they are hero's. The US is headed in a bad way. It was red neck rebels that got rid of the english. Now we're being taxed to death by our own gvmt, and the people paying the taxes aren't being represented.

[Mooseman33]

^^^
agreed.

[spywizard]

the word redneck

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redneck
Redneck is a disparaging[1] term that refers to a person who is stereotypically Caucasian and of lower social-economic status

same as calling someone a nig****

so why is that acceptable??

Voicing a decenting voice against the Government has always considered Patriotic and a protected action under the constitution.. so what's the issue??

The issue is they have now been added to a "watch list" .. that's ok, God bless them for standing up and standing out..

Change aint' it grand???

[Flagg]

I would think they were heroes if they were against the Big Government period, but they're just crackpot Republicans annoyed that the Democrats are in.

[Nooomoto]

LOL...I'm not entirely against the idea of militias. However, these guys are fat retards. Did you see this asshole doing a "combat roll"? I wasn't sure he'd make it all the way over. One dude has his gut hanging over his belt. How about some PT, fellas? Give me a ****ing break. These guys are almost as bad as the Air Force.

These guys aren't prepared for shit.

[Panzerfaust]

LOL...I'm not entirely against the idea of militias. However, these guys are fat retards. Did you see this asshole doing a "combat roll"? I wasn't sure he'd make it all the way over. One dude has his gut hanging over his belt. How about some PT, fellas? Give me a ****ing break. These guys are almost as bad as the Air Force.

These guys aren't prepared for shit.

And these are the exact kind of people that brought about our freedom. Sure, they may be fat and out of shape but I guarantee they could out shoot your ass anyday of the week. I'd be more comfortable with one of them in my trench than your roided up ass.

[Nooomoto]

And these are the exact kind of people that brought about our freedom. Sure, they may be fat and out of shape but I guarantee they could out shoot your ass anyday of the week. I'd be more comfortable with one of them in my trench than your roided up ass.

They might not fit in the trench. Even if they could, getting out would be an issue.

What I saw is a bunch of retards in the woods playing soldier. They were all using optics on their weapons, none of them were in shape. That fat guy rolling on the floor was just hilarious. From what I saw of the patrolling tactics they employ, they should be embarassed. I might be holding them to a bit of a high standard, but I hung out with some serious dudes at Fort Bragg for a while, and these guys are pure legs. They exuded no air of discipline what-so-ever, it looked more like a weekend getaway where you shoot guns and drink beer.

Out shoot me? I don't know about that. I'm not the best with a pistol but I'm pretty snappy with my AR-15 Tactical...without optics.

Really..what are these guys "prepared" for? To lay on the floor? Whatever threat they are envisioning would surely wipe the floor with them. If I was really worried and had legitimate concern that I'd have to join a para-military group to defend my country from within, these guys wouldn't be my first choice.

They have the right idea, but I think if you're REALLY worried about some shit going down, take your training seriously. This looked more like some fat hicks that want to be on tv looking what they consider "cool".

Those ridiculous Al-Qaeda training videos look way more legit.

[Panzerfaust]

They might not fit in the trench. Even if they could, getting out would be an issue.

What I saw is a bunch of retards in the woods playing soldier. They were all using optics on their weapons, none of them were in shape. That fat guy rolling on the floor was just hilarious. From what I saw of the patrolling tactics they employ, they should be embarassed. I might be holding them to a bit of a high standard, but I hung out with some serious dudes at Fort Bragg for a while, and these guys are pure legs. They exuded no air of discipline what-so-ever, it looked more like a weekend getaway where you shoot guns and drink beer.

Out shoot me? I don't know about that. I'm not the best with a pistol but I'm pretty snappy with my AR-15 Tactical...without optics.

Really..what are these guys "prepared" for? To lay on the floor? Whatever threat they are envisioning would surely wipe the floor with them. If I was really worried and had legitimate concern that I'd have to join a para-military group to defend my country from within, these guys wouldn't be my first choice.

They have the right idea, but I think if you're REALLY worried about some shit going down, take your training seriously. This looked more like some fat hicks that want to be on tv looking what they consider "cool".

Those ridiculous Al-Qaeda training videos look way more legit.

Your entire thinking is ass backwards and please take the Rambo movies out of your DVD player. Its like you expect everyone to have a goddamn six pack or something, wtf? Wake up to reality...you are immediately assuming you are better than them because they are "fat" bla bla bla

So you hung out with some serious dudes at Bragg huh? Whoa! Watch out over here everyone....pfft! Ok, so i am going to assume you could not see most of these men in this film are in their mid 50's, some vets themselves and you expect them to be hitting the deck like they are storming the beaches of Normady. wtf?

You are going to have to excuse 85% of the militia for not having your green beret like reflexes. Perhaps you should begin adminstering Anabolics to these militia units, you know so they can be men and protect their country.

Chill out..we don't care who you have hung out with. I've had long discussions with special forces in Vietnam that slit throats, did all kinds of shit. I am sorry to say it made me no more of a badass than it did when I watched Rambo 1-3

[Nooomoto]

Your entire thinking is ass backwards and please take the Rambo movies out of your DVD player. Its like you expect everyone to have a goddamn six pack or something, wtf? Wake up to reality...you are immediately assuming you are better than them because they are "fat" bla bla bla

So you hung out with some serious dudes at Bragg huh? Whoa! Watch out over here everyone....pfft! Ok, so i am going to assume you could not see most of these men in this film are in their mid 50's, some vets themselves and you expect them to be hitting the deck like they are storming the beaches of Normady. wtf?

You are going to have to excuse 85% of the militia for not having your green beret like reflexes. Perhaps you should begin adminstering Anabolics to these militia units, you know so they can be men and protect their country.

Chill out..we don't care who you have hung out with. I've had long discussions with special forces in Vietnam that slit throats, did all kinds of shit. I am sorry to say it made me no more of a badass than it did when I watched Rambo 1-3

I wasn't making the point that I'm a bad ass or that they should be Rambo. I was making the point that these guys are fools for thinking theyd be effective against any opposition force. And yes, if you're training to go to war...you should be hitting the deck like you are storming the beaches of Normandy.

[Panzerfaust]

I wasn't making the point that I'm a bad ass or that they should be Rambo. I was making the point that these guys are fools for thinking theyd be effective against any opposition force. And yes, if you're training to go to war...you should be hitting the deck like you are storming the beaches of Normandy.

Not really, the hillbillies would hide in the mountains and would be hell to catch. Cajuns would hit the swamps...these country types would also hit the woods/mountains.

The Berliner Volkssturm and Hitler-jugend were not trained like crack troops however they killed a shit ton of Russians entering Berlin so I dare say a shit ton of overweight hunters armed to the teeth etc. would be a tremendous help to you and your Elite squads should shit hit the fan.

[inheritmylife]

Those guys are a kind of pathetic but I bet you many of them can still punch holes in the black paper at 500 yards with iron sights.

You don't need to be former marine or ranger to hit reliably with a good rifle. They probably aren't cut out for any real offensive combat, but I wouldn't want to walk through their neighborhood or woods with the wrong uniform on when the sh** hits the fan.

[Panzerfaust]

Oh, and I bet you wouldn't want any part of this guy either.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ELol1dHjHEE

[Flagg]

So the obese are going to overthrow the government?

[Panzerfaust]

So the obese are going to overthrow the government?

Stay on subject you commie!

[Flagg]

Stay on subject you commie!

LOL! Okay, im sure there are other people other than the big boned, but with a lot of heart, well a lot of everything, that are more than willing. Like here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV59_...1&feature=fvwp

[goose]

God I hate these brits.....slaves who live on an island prison.

[MuscleScience]

Not really, the hillbillies would hide in the mountains and would be hell to catch. Cajuns would hit the swamps...these country types would also hit the woods/mountains.

The Berliner Volkssturm and Hitler-jugend were not trained like crack troops however they killed a shit ton of Russians entering Berlin so I dare say a shit ton of overweight hunters armed to the teeth etc. would be a tremendous help to you and your Elite squads should shit hit the fan.

God I hate russians,

My grandpa as an 80+ year old man, was a crack shot. I dont think I have ever seen him miss a shot my entire life. He was just a farm boy that had to hunt for food because the grocery store was over a days travel from home.

[Panzerfaust]

LOL! Okay, im sure there are other people other than the big boned, but with a lot of heart, well a lot of everything, that are more than willing. Like here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kV59_...1&feature=fvwp

ja, Oma schießen ein MP40

This is also a threat

[TITANIUM]

Not really, the hillbillies would hide in the mountains and would be hell to catch. Cajuns would hit the swamps...these country types would also hit the woods/mountains.

The Berliner Volkssturm and Hitler-jugend were not trained like crack troops however they killed a shit ton of Russians entering Berlin so I dare say a shit ton of overweight hunters armed to the teeth etc. would be a tremendous help to you and your Elite squads should shit hit the fan.

I usually don't take sides so directly as I will do now.

Mostly try to mediate things in here, so don't start with the BS crap on this subject.

But, I will defend muriloninja on this 100%, and I will explain why:

There are groups of these so called patriots that are made up up law enforcement and current military personal.

Of course I can back this statement up with facts.

Follow this website and read and listen to the oath they swore to uphold to take there positions they are in.

Flagg, it' bigger than you think, and they are highly proficient in what I call the craft.

Check it out: http://oathkeepers.org/oath/

Best

T

Main About All Testimonials Articles Videos Donate Join Submit State Groups Resources Store FAQ Contact
March 3rd, 2009
Declaration Of Orders We Will Not Obey


Orders We Will Not Obey
“The time is now near at hand which must probably determine, whether Americans are to be, Freemen, or Slaves; whether they are to have any property they can call their own; whether their Houses, and Farms, are to be pillaged and destroyed, and they consigned to a State of Wretchedness from which no human efforts will probably deliver them. The fate of unborn Millions will now depend, under God, on the Courage and Conduct of this army” -- Gen. George Washington, to his troops before the battle of Long Island


Such a time is near at hand again. The fate of unborn millions will now depend, under God, on the Courage and Conduct of this Army -- and this Marine Corps, This Air Force, This Navy and the National Guard and police units of these sovereign states.

Oath Keepers is a non-partisan association of currently serving military, reserves, National Guard, peace officers, fire-fighters, and veterans who swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic … and meant it. We won’t “just follow orders.”

Below is our declaration of orders we will NOT obey because we will consider them unconstitutional (and thus unlawful) and immoral violations of the natural rights of the people. Such orders would be acts of war against the American people by their own government, and thus acts of treason. We will not make war against our own people. We will not commit treason. We will defend the Republic.

Declaration of Orders We Will NOT Obey
Recognizing that we each swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, and affirming that we are guardians of the Republic, of the principles in our Declaration of Independence, and of the rights of our people, we affirm and declare the following:

1. We will NOT obey any order to disarm the American people.

The attempt to disarm the people on April 19, 1775 was the spark of open conflict in the American Revolution. That vile attempt was an act of war, and the American people fought back in justified, righteous self-defense of their natural rights. Any such order today would also be an act of war against the American people, and thus an act of treason. We will not make war on our own people, and we will not commit treason by obeying any such treasonous order.

Nor will we assist, or support any such attempt to disarm the people by other government entities, either state or federal.



In addition, we affirm that the purpose of the Second Amendment is to preserve the military power of the people so that they will, in the last resort, have effective final recourse to arms and to the God of Hosts in the face of tyranny. Accordingly, we oppose any and all further infringements on the right of the people to keep and bear arms. In particular we oppose a renewal of the misnamed “assault-weapons” ban or the enactment of H.R. 45 (which would register and track gun owners like convicted pedophiles).

2. We will NOT obey any order to conduct warrantless searches of the American people, their homes, vehicles, papers, or effects -- such as warrantless house-to house searches for weapons or persons.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the use of “writs of assistance,” which were essentially warrantless searches because there was no requirement of a showing of probable cause to a judge, and the first fiery embers of American resistance were born in opposition to those infamous writs. The Founders considered all warrantless searches to be unreasonable and egregious. It was to prevent a repeat of such violations of the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects that the Fourth Amendment was written.

We expect that sweeping warrantless searches of homes and vehicles, under some pretext, will be the means used to attempt to disarm the people.

3. We will NOT obey any order to detain American citizens as “unlawful enemy combatants” or to subject them to trial by military tribunal.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the denial of the right to jury trial, the use of admiralty courts (military tribunals) instead, and the application of the laws of war to the colonists. After that experience, and being well aware of the infamous Star Chamber in English history, the Founders ensured that the international laws of war would apply only to foreign enemies, not to the American people. Thus, the Article III Treason Clause establishes the only constitutional form of trial for an American, not serving in the military, who is accused of making war on his own nation. Such a trial for treason must be before a civilian jury, not a tribunal.

The international laws of war do not trump our Bill of Rights. We reject as illegitimate any such claimed power, as did the Supreme Court in Ex Parte Milligan (1865). Any attempt to apply the laws of war to American civilians, under any pretext, such as against domestic “militia” groups the government brands “domestic terrorists,” is an act of war and an act of treason.

4. We will NOT obey orders to impose martial law or a “state of emergency” on a state, or to enter with force into a state, without the express consent and invitation of that state’s legislature and governor.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the attempt “to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power” by disbanding the Massachusetts legislature and appointing General Gage as “military governor.” The attempt to disarm the people of Massachusetts during that martial law sparked our Revolution. Accordingly, the power to impose martial law – the absolute rule over the people by a military officer with his will alone being law – is nowhere enumerated in our Constitution.

Further, it is the militia of a state and of the several states that the Constitution contemplates being used in any context, during any emergency within a state, not the standing army.

The imposition of martial law by the national government over a state and its people, treating them as an occupied enemy nation, is an act of war. Such an attempted suspension of the Constitution and Bill of Rights voids the compact with the states and with the people.

5. We will NOT obey orders to invade and subjugate any state that asserts its sovereignty and declares the national government to be in violation of the compact by which that state entered the Union.

In response to the obscene growth of federal power and to the absurdly totalitarian claimed powers of the Executive, upwards of 20 states are considering, have considered, or have passed courageous resolutions affirming states rights and sovereignty.

Those resolutions follow in the honored and revered footsteps of Jefferson and Madison in their Kentucky and Virginia Resolutions, and likewise seek to enforce the Constitution by affirming the very same principles of our Declaration, Constitution, and Bill of Rights that we Oath Keepers recognize and affirm.

Chief among those principles is that ours is a dual sovereignty system, with the people of each state retaining all powers not granted to the national government they created, and thus the people of each state reserved to themselves the right to judge when the national government they created has voided the compact between the states by asserting powers never granted.

Upon the declaration by a state that such a breach has occurred, we will not obey orders to force that state to submit to the national government.

6. We will NOT obey any order to blockade American cities, thus turning them into giant concentration camps.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the blockade of Boston, and the occupying of that city by the British military, under martial law. Once hostilities began, the people of Boston were tricked into turning in their arms in exchange for safe passage, but were then forbidden to leave. That confinement of the residents of an entire city was an act of war.

Such tactics were repeated by the Nazis in the Warsaw Ghetto, and by the Imperial Japanese in Nanking, turning entire cities into death camps. Any such order to disarm and confine the people of an American city will be an act of war and thus an act of treason.

7. We will NOT obey any order to force American citizens into any form of detention camps under any pretext.

Mass, forced internment into concentration camps was a hallmark of every fascist and communist dictatorship in the 20th Century. Such internment was unfortunately even used against American citizens of Japanese descent during World War II. Whenever a government interns its own people, it treats them like an occupied enemy population. Oppressive governments often use the internment of women and children to break the will of the men fighting for their liberty – as was done to the Boers, to the Jewish resisters in the Warsaw Ghetto, and to the Chechens, for example.


Such a vile order to forcibly intern Americans without charges or trial would be an act of war against the American people, and thus an act of treason, regardless of the pretext used. We will not commit treason, nor will we facilitate or support it.”NOT on Our Watch!”

8. We will NOT obey orders to assist or support the use of any foreign troops on U.S. soil against the American people to “keep the peace” or to “maintain control” during any emergency, or under any other pretext. We will consider such use of foreign troops against our people to be an invasion and an act of war.

During the American Revolution, the British government enlisted the aid of Hessian mercenaries in an attempt to subjugate the rebellious American people. Throughout history, repressive regimes have enlisted the aid of foreign troops and mercenaries who have no bonds with the people.

Accordingly, as the militia of the several states are the only military force contemplated by the Constitution, in Article I, Section 8, for domestic keeping of the peace, and as the use of even our own standing army for such purposes is without such constitutional support, the use of foreign troops and mercenaries against the people is wildly unconstitutional, egregious, and an act of war.

We will oppose such troops as enemies of the people and we will treat all who request, invite, and aid those foreign troops as the traitors they are.

9. We will NOT obey any orders to confiscate the property of the American people, including food and other essential supplies, under any emergency pretext whatsoever.

One of the causes of the American Revolution was the seizure and forfeiture of American ships, goods, and supplies, along with the seizure of American timber for the Royal Navy, all in violation of the people’s natural right to their property and to the fruits of their labor. The final spark of the Revolution was the attempt by the government to seize powder and cannon stores at Concord.

Deprivation of food has long been a weapon of war and oppression, with millions intentionally starved to death by fascist and communist governments in the 20th Century alone.

Accordingly, we will not obey or facilitate orders to confiscate food and other essential supplies from the people, and we will consider all those who issue or carry out such orders to be the enemies of the people.

10. We will NOT obey any orders which infringe on the right of the people to free speech, to peaceably assemble, and to petition their government for a redress of grievances.

There would have been no American Revolution without fiery speakers and writers such as James Otis, Patrick Henry, Thomas Paine, and Sam Adams “setting brushfires of freedom in the minds of men.”



Patrick Henry: “Give me Liberty, or Give me DEATH!”

Tyrants know that the pen of a man such as Thomas Paine can cause them more damage than entire armies, and thus they always seek to suppress the natural rights of speech, association, and assembly. Without freedom of speech, the people will have no recourse but to arms. Without freedom of speech and conscience, there is no freedom.
Therefore, we will not obey or support any orders to suppress or violate the right of the people to speak, associate, worship, assemble, communicate, or petition government for the redress of grievances.

— And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine Providence, we mutually affirm our oath and pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred Honor. Oath Keepers

The above list is not exhaustive but we do consider them to be clear tripwires – they form our “line in the sand,” and if we receive such orders, we will not obey them. Further, we will know that the time for another American Revolution is nigh. If you the people decide that you have no recourse, and such a revolution comes, at that time, not only will we NOT fire upon our fellow Americans who righteously resist such egregious violations of their God given rights, we will join them in fighting against those who dare attempt to enslave them.

NOTE: please also read our Principles of Our Republic We Are Sworn to Defend

More About Oath Keepers

Oath Keepers is a non partisan association of currently serving military, peace officers, fire-fighters, and veterans who will fulfill our oath to support and defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic, so help us God.

Our oath is to the Constitution, not to the politicians, and not to any political party. In the long-standing tradition of the U.S. military, we are apolitical. We don’t care if unlawful orders come from a Democrat or a Republican, or if the violation is bi-partisan. We will not obey unconstitutional (and thus unlawful) and immoral orders, such as orders to disarm the American people or to place them under martial law. We won’t “just follow orders.” Our motto: “Not on Our Watch!” or to put it even more succinctly, in the words of 101st Airborne Commander General Anthony McAuliffe at the Battle of the Bulge, “NUTS!”

There is at this time a debate within the ranks of the military regarding their oath. Some mistakenly believe they must follow any order the President issues. But many others do understand that their loyalty is to the Constitution and to the people, and understand what that means.

The mission of Oath Keepers is to vastly increase their numbers.

We are in a battle for the hearts and minds of our own troops.

Help us win it.

www.oathkeepers.org

PLEASE DONATE AND SUPPORT OUR EFFORTS

Oath Keepers is growing FAST, but like General Patton, we are outpacing our own supply lines. Your donations are “fuel” for our advance!



Oath Keepers Declaration of Orders We Will NOT Obey


To view Comments pre July 4th, 2009 please visit our old blog at http://oath-keepers.blogspot.com/200...orders-we.html

[MuscleScience]

ja, Oma schießen ein MP40

This is also a threat

hahahaha, that was good.

[thegodfather]

LOL...I'm not entirely against the idea of militias. However, these guys are fat retards. Did you see this asshole doing a "combat roll"? I wasn't sure he'd make it all the way over. One dude has his gut hanging over his belt. How about some PT, fellas? Give me a ****ing break. These guys are almost as bad as the Air Force.

These guys aren't prepared for shit.

Have you seen many of the clowns that are members of the various branches of the US military? Traditionally, branches like the Army were last resorts for losers and people from the ghetto who had no way out in life. What's funny is that you criticize these people and look down on them, when they care about YOUR freedom just as much as their own. At least they are making an effort towards checking the power of government. What are you doing? Do you even vote?

[Panzerfaust]

Have you seen many of the clowns that are members of the various branches of the US military? Traditionally, branches like the Army were last resorts for losers and people from the ghetto who had no way out in life. What's funny is that you criticize these people and look down on them, when they care about YOUR freedom just as much as their own. At least they are making an effort towards checking the power of government. What are you doing? Do you even vote?

Sad but true!

[Flagg]

How many members here that are for these guys are actually part of a militia group themselves?

[Panzerfaust]

How many members here that are for these guys are actually part of a militia group themselves?

Heil! *clacks boots*

[Flagg]

Heil! *clacks boots*

I didn't see any goose stepping in the original video so I don't believe for one moment that this equates to any sort of nazism, but it's funny that people that scream "SOCIALIST!" are convinced that we're all one rung down from a full blown third riech. The media has been feeding that socialism crap to us since the 1950's, but im curious how many of you who think these guys are patriots and heroes are about to start doing this yourself?

I wouldn't judge anyone that would, but i'd question people that think these guys are awesome but would never do this stuff themselves.

[thegodfather]

I didn't see any goose stepping in the original video so I don't believe for one moment that this equates to any sort of nazism, but it's funny that people that scream "SOCIALIST!" are convinced that we're all one rung down from a full blown third riech. The media has been feeding that socialism crap to us since the 1950's, but im curious how many of you who think these guys are patriots and heroes are about to start doing this yourself?

I wouldn't judge anyone that would, but i'd question people that think these guys are awesome but would never do this stuff themselves.

Sort of a straw man argument you are trying to set up there Flagg. While many of us here think that what these guys are doing is very patriotic, we shouldn't be criticized because we wouldn't do it right now. You have to understand that being a part of a group like that has very serious consequences for ones personal and professional life. You are put onto watch lists, red flagged, and your behavior and financial records can become scrutinized. Going out and joining a group like this is just the type of thing that causes you to suddenly get audited by the IRS, or be sought out for arrest for unpaid parking tickets, or be put on the chopping block if you hold any sort of government job. The government punishes people like this who dare to exercise their rights. Freedom's do often times come with a cost.

Take for instance what happened to Joe the Plumber. After making remarks that were unpopular about President Obama, government workers in his state looked his name up in databases, and went after him for unpaid taxes from years and years ago, a small sum of about $1,500 dollars. In addition, they used the databases to find out he wasn't a licensed plumber causing him to loose his job. All of this because President Obama approached him and he had the audacity to exercise his freedom of speech and be of the opinion that Obama's policies were socialist in nature. This is one of the ways the government curtails freedom of speech, by making financial and social consequences to exercising those rights.

It is easy for people to be members of these groups if they hold menial jobs or are retired. It is quite another story for a large portion of the middle class who hold jobs with a mild degree of responsibility or public trust to join such a group that is politically unpopular. In some localities around the United States, just being a member of the wrong political party can have serious consequences for a person's career. I suspect if things became TRULY bad enough in this country a larger percentage of people would be willing to fight in the manner these people are, however that has not come to fruition. They are essentially, jumping the gun on the issue. Still, it is no reason to demean these people because they do stand for something pretty good in my opinion. They obviously have no chance of overthrowing the government or carrying out any kind of mass military operation, so I find the wasted man hours and millions of dollars from groups like the FBI and ATF to be kind of comical actually, while also pissing me off that tax dollars are wasted surveilling patriots shooting at silhouettes in the middle of the woods.

[MuscleScience]

Sort of a straw man argument you are trying to set up there Flagg. While many of us here think that what these guys are doing is very patriotic, we shouldn't be criticized because we wouldn't do it right now. You have to understand that being a part of a group like that has very serious consequences for ones personal and professional life. You are put onto watch lists, red flagged, and your behavior and financial records can become scrutinized. Going out and joining a group like this is just the type of thing that causes you to suddenly get audited by the IRS, or be sought out for arrest for unpaid parking tickets, or be put on the chopping block if you hold any sort of government job. The government punishes people like this who dare to exercise their rights. Freedom's do often times come with a cost.

Take for instance what happened to Joe the Plumber. After making remarks that were unpopular about President Obama, government workers in his state looked his name up in databases, and went after him for unpaid taxes from years and years ago, a small sum of about $1,500 dollars. In addition, they used the databases to find out he wasn't a licensed plumber causing him to loose his job. All of this because President Obama approached him and he had the audacity to exercise his freedom of speech and be of the opinion that Obama's policies were socialist in nature. This is one of the ways the government curtails freedom of speech, by making financial and social consequences to exercising those rights.

It is easy for people to be members of these groups if they hold menial jobs or are retired. It is quite another story for a large portion of the middle class who hold jobs with a mild degree of responsibility or public trust to join such a group that is politically unpopular. In some localities around the United States, just being a member of the wrong political party can have serious consequences for a person's career. I suspect if things became TRULY bad enough in this country a larger percentage of people would be willing to fight in the manner these people are, however that has not come to fruition. They are essentially, jumping the gun on the issue. Still, it is no reason to demean these people because they do stand for something pretty good in my opinion. They obviously have no chance of overthrowing the government or carrying out any kind of mass military operation, so I find the wasted man hours and millions of dollars from groups like the FBI and ATF to be kind of comical actually, while also pissing me off that tax dollars are wasted surveilling patriots shooting at silhouettes in the middle of the woods.

Man I cant argue with that!

[Panzerfaust]

I didn't see any goose stepping in the original video so I don't believe for one moment that this equates to any sort of nazism, but it's funny that people that scream "SOCIALIST!" are convinced that we're all one rung down from a full blown third riech. The media has been feeding that socialism crap to us since the 1950's, but im curious how many of you who think these guys are patriots and heroes are about to start doing this yourself?

I wouldn't judge anyone that would, but i'd question people that think these guys are awesome but would never do this stuff themselves.

See how you immediately think of Nazi's when I use the simple term "heil"...see even you are effectively brainwashed by the world and media? Well ok I did "clack" my boots.

I was basically saying "Me" to your question. I did not really know of the existance of these militia's...I have contacted mine and will see what its like. I find it interesting actually.

[TITANIUM]

Sort of a straw man argument you are trying to set up there Flagg. While many of us here think that what these guys are doing is very patriotic, we shouldn't be criticized because we wouldn't do it right now. You have to understand that being a part of a group like that has very serious consequences for ones personal and professional life. You are put onto watch lists, red flagged, and your behavior and financial records can become scrutinized. Going out and joining a group like this is just the type of thing that causes you to suddenly get audited by the IRS, or be sought out for arrest for unpaid parking tickets, or be put on the chopping block if you hold any sort of government job. The government punishes people like this who dare to exercise their rights. Freedom's do often times come with a cost.

Take for instance what happened to Joe the Plumber. After making remarks that were unpopular about President Obama, government workers in his state looked his name up in databases, and went after him for unpaid taxes from years and years ago, a small sum of about $1,500 dollars. In addition, they used the databases to find out he wasn't a licensed plumber causing him to loose his job. All of this because President Obama approached him and he had the audacity to exercise his freedom of speech and be of the opinion that Obama's policies were socialist in nature. This is one of the ways the government curtails freedom of speech, by making financial and social consequences to exercising those rights.

It is easy for people to be members of these groups if they hold menial jobs or are retired. It is quite another story for a large portion of the middle class who hold jobs with a mild degree of responsibility or public trust to join such a group that is politically unpopular. In some localities around the United States, just being a member of the wrong political party can have serious consequences for a person's career. I suspect if things became TRULY bad enough in this country a larger percentage of people would be willing to fight in the manner these people are, however that has not come to fruition. They are essentially, jumping the gun on the issue. Still, it is no reason to demean these people because they do stand for something pretty good in my opinion. They obviously have no chance of overthrowing the government or carrying out any kind of mass military operation, so I find the wasted man hours and millions of dollars from groups like the FBI and ATF to be kind of comical actually, while also pissing me off that tax dollars are wasted surveilling patriots shooting at silhouettes in the middle of the woods.

Bro, you hit the nail on the head. period!

Great post.

This is truly impressive to me, on a personal note.

People like myself , are demonized and stereotyped by the media and state institutions.

So, I have to keep low for reasons of what I own, and what I believe in.

But, if it came down to it, I would die fighting for what I believe in.

Fvck this big, self perpetuating government that wants to basically burn the constitution in a trash barrel.

Best

T

[Flagg]

Sort of a straw man argument you are trying to set up there Flagg. While many of us here think that what these guys are doing is very patriotic, we shouldn't be criticized because we wouldn't do it right now. You have to understand that being a part of a group like that has very serious consequences for ones personal and professional life. You are put onto watch lists, red flagged, and your behavior and financial records can become scrutinized. Going out and joining a group like this is just the type of thing that causes you to suddenly get audited by the IRS, or be sought out for arrest for unpaid parking tickets, or be put on the chopping block if you hold any sort of government job. The government punishes people like this who dare to exercise their rights. Freedom's do often times come with a cost.

Take for instance what happened to Joe the Plumber. After making remarks that were unpopular about President Obama, government workers in his state looked his name up in databases, and went after him for unpaid taxes from years and years ago, a small sum of about $1,500 dollars. In addition, they used the databases to find out he wasn't a licensed plumber causing him to loose his job. All of this because President Obama approached him and he had the audacity to exercise his freedom of speech and be of the opinion that Obama's policies were socialist in nature. This is one of the ways the government curtails freedom of speech, by making financial and social consequences to exercising those rights.

It is easy for people to be members of these groups if they hold menial jobs or are retired. It is quite another story for a large portion of the middle class who hold jobs with a mild degree of responsibility or public trust to join such a group that is politically unpopular. In some localities around the United States, just being a member of the wrong political party can have serious consequences for a person's career. I suspect if things became TRULY bad enough in this country a larger percentage of people would be willing to fight in the manner these people are, however that has not come to fruition. They are essentially, jumping the gun on the issue. Still, it is no reason to demean these people because they do stand for something pretty good in my opinion. They obviously have no chance of overthrowing the government or carrying out any kind of mass military operation, so I find the wasted man hours and millions of dollars from groups like the FBI and ATF to be kind of comical actually, while also pissing me off that tax dollars are wasted surveilling patriots shooting at silhouettes in the middle of the woods.

Except that with Joe the Plumber none of that can be proved. I mean it looks pretty circumstantial that he is being punished for defying the government, but why do people insist that bad things only happen under Obama? Look at the Plame Affair/CIA Leak scandal. That woman who was exposed as being a CIA agent. What a totally irresponsible thing to do, of which the husband of this woman insists that members of the Bush Administation, including that peach Cheney, deliberately blew her cover as retribution for the article he wrote about the falsified claims of WMD's. Of course, none of this can be proved either, but I wish people would stop insisting one party is not evil and the other one is.

As for my straw man argument, I would argue that they shouldn't be too quick to reveal what they do. Yes it goes against the grain of being free and living in a democratic society, but none of you want to be on a list. I know it's a shitty thing and looks like "shut up and say nothing" but prehaps they should be a bit more subtle?

[Flagg]

See how you immediately think of Nazi's when I use the simple term "heil"...see even you are effectively brainwashed by the world and media? Well ok I did "clack" my boots.

I was basically saying "Me" to your question. I did not really know of the existance of these militia's...I have contacted mine and will see what its like. I find it interesting actually.

We have a party over in Britian known as the "BNP", or the "British National Party". They are considered extreme and labeled every PC pricks favourite word "racist". Now I went off on a bit of a rant a few weeks back, even defending some of their policies, which are quite convincing, but you have to remember any group like this, or a militia, thrive when public opinion in politicians is at an all time low. If anything they should serve to show people how wrong the system really is, but sadly it doesn't.

I'll appologise now for labelling any of those guys as "rednecks". I don't know them so i don't have the right to make such assumptions. I admire how they don't want Big Government, but these things always turn into "Dems vs Rep"...I mean are these guys against Big Government or just "the other side"?

[TITANIUM]

We have a party over in Britian known as the "BNP", or the "British National Party". They are considered extreme and labeled every PC pricks favourite word "racist". Now I went off on a bit of a rant a few weeks back, even defending some of their policies, which are quite convincing, but you have to remember any group like this, or a militia, thrive when public opinion in politicians is at an all time low. If anything they should serve to show people how wrong the system really is, but sadly it doesn't.

I'll appologise now for labelling any of those guys as "rednecks". I don't know them so i don't have the right to make such assumptions. I admire how they don't want Big Government, but these things always turn into "Dems vs Rep"...I mean are these guys against Big Government or just "the other side"?

Big Goverment.

Dem VS Rep is not the issue.

Best

T

[Flagg]

Big Goverment.

Dem VS Rep is not the issue.

Best

T

Well fair enough T, but near the beginning one of the guys goes into one about "Democratic presidents"...it makes it seem as if they are just pissed of Reps. If they aren't then more power to them, but that's how it can be construed.

[thegodfather]

Except that with Joe the Plumber none of that can be proved. I mean it looks pretty circumstantial that he is being punished for defying the government, but why do people insist that bad things only happen under Obama? Look at the Plame Affair/CIA Leak scandal. That woman who was exposed as being a CIA agent. What a totally irresponsible thing to do, of which the husband of this woman insists that members of the Bush Administation, including that peach Cheney, deliberately blew her cover as retribution for the article he wrote about the falsified claims of WMD's. Of course, none of this can be proved either, but I wish people would stop insisting one party is not evil and the other one is.

That's actually incorrect. Two employees resigned and one had his job revoked after they improperly searched Joe The Plumbers name in Ohio State databases for a malicious purpose.

"Given our understanding that Mr. Wurzelbacher had publicly indicated that he had the means to purchase a substantial business enterprise, ODJFS, consistent with past departmental practice, checked confidential databases to make sure that if Mr. Wurzelbacher did owe child support, or unemployment compensation taxes, or was receiving public assistance, appropriate action was being taken. The result of those checks have never been publicly shared."[7]
The Columbus Dispatch reported on November 14, 2008, that "In response to a public-records request, the state agency said yesterday that it had no records involving previous checks of the type that Director Helen Jones-Kelley authorized on 'Joe the Plumber.'"[8] Tom Hayes and Barbara Riley, both previous directors of ODJFS, have responded to Jones-Kelley's searches and stated that they did not conduct searches due to an individual's status being raised to "celebrity."[9]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohio_De...ch_controversy

[TITANIUM]

Well fair enough T, but near the beginning one of the guys goes into one about "Democratic presidents"...it makes it seem as if they are just pissed of Reps. If they aren't then more power to them, but that's how it can be construed.

Agreed. I can see that point.

Basically, from what I have seen, and who I have personally spoken to, it's not Dem nor Rep based. To myself, you can have a good president in either party.Or for that matter, a bad one.

If obama was white, I would be saying the same thing.

If he was white and a republican, I would be saying the same thing.

(I actually wish he was, then I could really let it fly).

What the hell do party lines even mean anymore?

But, I judge a man's worth, not by what he says, or the way he says it.

It's by what he does.

My father had an old saying, never measure a man's worth by his wealth. Judge him by his word.

Best

T