Is Israel getting ready to go it alone?

[marocknroll]

i think Israël Will make USA do this war for them.

[gymmonster]

i think Israël Will make USA do this war for them.

that wont happen

[durak]

Not with obama. They may go it alone.

[FranciscoG]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OJpfw...eature=related

LOL... Even with half of all Israeli Air Force it would still be a limited hit.

[amcon]

the us is always the police in this type of case, and always called the problem... if the shoe was on the other foot how would it be any diff... we fight and support what we feel is best for us.

as for should we help - yes we should we might as well we will be blamed any how. and if we take decisive action we could gain respect... that is how these people think any ways right?

[Kratos]

i think Israël Will make USA do this war for them.

Obama is not a fan of Israel like Bush was.

And Israel can't do much damage without the US.

I'd say Israel is past the half way point in it's life as a nation.

[Kratos]

the us is always the police in this type of case, and always called the problem... if the shoe was on the other foot how would it be any diff... we fight and support what we feel is best for us.

as for should we help - yes we should we might as well we will be blamed any how. and if we take decisive action we could gain respect... that is how these people think any ways right?

Another endless war is not sounding so good right now. IDK what the answer is. It would be nice if Iran were welcome to a partnership where we could show them how to secure their nuclear program like we had planned to do before the Islamic overthrow of the gvmt in the late 70's.

[FranciscoG]

Obama is not a fan of Israel like Bush was.

And Israel can't do much damage without the US.

I'd say Israel is past the half way point in it's life as a nation.

As long as they are on Welfare they will be fine. Sure does add another meaning to welfare state!Lol.

[Kratos]

As long as they are on Welfare they will be fine. Sure does add another meaning to welfare state!Lol.

I doubt the middle east is going to provide the US with the same amount of oil 20 to 30 years down the road as they do today.

It will be interesting to see how much we care about Israel then.

right now the Middle East is split in two loose alliences

You have the US, and decreasingly Europe, Israel, Egypt, Saudi Arabia, UAE, Kuait, Jordan
with the US being the glue and oil being the reason it's all held together.

Iraq is in the middle, cause you don't know what will happen when the US leaves them to govern themselves.

Then you have Iran, Yemen, Syria, and Lebanon (sort of)

The Arab people are somewhere in the middle. They like some things about western culture but some things these arab powers say ring true with them also.

None of the Arab nations have any love for Israel, letting the exist for now is just part of the price of doing business for now.

The furture of Israel as I see it is predicated on the bounty of oil left to be harvested.

[JasonT]

Obama is not a fan of Israel like Bush was.

And Israel can't do much damage without the US.

I'd say Israel is past the half way point in it's life as a nation.

Obama doesn't make the decisions...US foreign policy was decided before he took office and arguably before he was even born. He just reads the words on the paper that's handed to him, "charismatically" I might add.

Whether we send troops alongside israel or not doesn't change the fact that the US has funded Israel since it's instantiation and continues to give more annual economic aid to them than the rest of the world combined.

[quarry206]

Obama doesn't make the decisions...US foreign policy was decided before he took office and arguably before he was even born. He just reads the words on the paper that's handed to him, "charismatically" I might add.

Whether we send troops alongside israel or not doesn't change the fact that the US has funded Israel since it's instantiation and continues to give more annual economic aid to them than the rest of the world combined.

Obama as President makes the choice to or not to send troops anywhere in the world. . . so tho funding and foreign aid is written into law by past policies. If there was a War it is up to the President for the final say on if America helps out or not.

[JasonT]

Obama as President makes the choice to or not to send troops anywhere in the world. . . so tho funding and foreign aid is written into law by past policies. If there was a War it is up to the President for the final say on if America helps out or not.

lol....is that what they told you?

[Flagg]

How many of you American guys actually like your country donating shed loads of cash, Israels way?

I mean yep, the whole debate of "Israel has the right to defend herself against islamic insurgents" has been beaten to death. However, surely the only reason she can defend herself in the first place is because of American funding. My history isn't the greatest but wasn't Israel always originally, an Arab state?

Israel to me just comes across as a huge pain in the ass for America, in my opinion. With the financial state of the country, surely you have better things you could be spending your money on.

Like Kratos said, its a shame that the West cant form new ties with Iran over their nuclear program and even help them develop it.

Whatever way you look at it, Israel declaring they are going to bomb any nuclear facilities that goes into production, is wrong, and I really don't like the fact that the US and UK are going to be forced to back up Israel in yet another pointless war in the Middle East.

[FranciscoG]

How many of you American guys actually like your country donating shed loads of cash, Israels way?

I mean yep, the whole debate of "Israel has the right to defend herself against islamic insurgents" has been beaten to death. However, surely the only reason she can defend herself in the first place is because of American funding. My history isn't the greatest but wasn't Israel always originally, an Arab state?

Israel to me just comes across as a huge pain in the ass for America, in my opinion. With the financial state of the country, surely you have better things you could be spending your money on.

Like Kratos said, its a shame that the West cant form new ties with Iran over their nuclear program and even help them develop it.

Whatever way you look at it, Israel declaring they are going to bomb any nuclear facilities that goes into production, is wrong, and I really don't like the fact that the US and UK are going to be forced to back up Israel in yet another pointless war in the Middle East.

AIPAC, Arguably the most powerful organization in DC!

They have a good tactic.

If your country happens to be borrowing money from, ohhhhhh China, to fund Israel and you FOR ANY reason do not support that they simply call you a racist!

You see the problem is not the individual citizens of the UK or US. The problem is our political leaders do not have balls.

So while all this goes on our welfare client does whatever she wants.

Make our VP look like a bitch --- Check
Tell the Arabs no matter what kind of peace is reached they will not remove troops from the West bank --- Check
Built new ¨settlement¨ while daddy demands that the welfare bitch should not --- Check

Help in anyway --- Hell no


I can not see one aspect that the nation of Israel adds positively to the US or UK, can you?

[quarry206]

lol....is that what they told you?

then please explain to me who you think makes that choice.




because i do know that it has to be a president (the Commander in chief) sign for US troops on title 10 to enter another country that we do not have a SOFA with. .

Article II, Section 2
The President shall be Commander in Chief of the Army and Navy of the United States, and of the Militia of the several States, when called into the actual Service of the United States

meaning he can send troops to war, "police actions", or "peace keeping" anytime he please's without asking permission, and depending on the size of force or branch he has 62days to 2 years to get funding from the executive branch.

this is also one of the reasons the U.S. Army has no Combat units or jobs in its Reserve forces, But each states national guard has all combat arms units to include two full Special Forces Groups.

Vietnam, Korea and gulf war are all perfect examples of presidents sending troops to war without it being declared or funded as a war.


Article I, Section 8 in simple terms says
The “war powers” are defined in Article 2, Section 2. Congress declares war, while the president wages war.

here is a link if you would like to read the Constitution yourself.
http://www.senate.gov/civics/constit...on.htm#a2_sec2

[AnimalJ]

whats your point? nukes make personnel pointless.

Ta Da.

[durak]

And they got more than 1 or 2 nukes fellas. Israel has more than enough military power to take care of any problem in the middle east. The only issue is non-middle east countries jumping in.

[Kratos]

lol....is that what they told you?

paranoid much?

lets see, either our leaders are mindlessly following some peice of paper that an omnicent dead guy wrote before they were born that covers every possible situation...

or they are the people in power
I'm going to go with the dumb asses we elected making the poor decisions
why else would big corperations and israel waste money on lobbiests to bribe people who can't be swayed?

[FranciscoG]

paranoid much?

lets see, either our leaders are mindlessly following some peice of paper that an omnicent dead guy wrote before they were born that covers every possible situation...

or they are the people in power
I'm going to go with the dumb asses we elected making the poor decisions
why else would big corperations and israel waste money on lobbiests to bribe people who can't be swayed?

I am just trying to understand how it is legal to have an organization that lobbies for the interests of another nation.

AIPAC = American Israeli political action comm


Do we have an ACCPAC (American chinese communist political action comm) ? No.

Do we have an IPAC (Iranian political action comm)? No.


Of course there are the Israeli spies that have been caught compromising the nation´s security. I just do not see it.

Call me stupid but I agreed with GWB when he said ¨You either stand with us or against us.¨

[durak]

I am just trying to understand how it is legal to have an organization that lobbies for the interests of another nation.

AIPAC = American Israeli political action comm


Do we have an ACCPAC (American chinese communist political action comm) ? No.

Do we have an IPAC (Iranian political action comm)? No.

Ummm... Yes.

Iranian American Political Action Committee: IAPAC www.iranianamericanpac.org/

Indo Chinese American Political Action Committee
iapacusa.org/

At least the AIPAC (American Israeli political action comm) put American first... BTW israeli's can be dual citizens with the US.

[FranciscoG]

^^ They do not lobby for the interests of other nations.

IAPACUSA is organized by Vietnamese Chinese, Cambodian Chinese and Laotian Chinese in the United States of America.


Iranian American PAC is for Iranian Americans within the US not for Iranians to lobby Congress for the benefot of the Islamic Republic of Iran.http://www.iranianamericanpac.org/about/ms.shtml

Again there is not one lobbing organization that works for the interests of another nation.

Do we have an ACCPAC (American chinese communist political action comm) ? No.

Do we have an IPAC (Iranian political action comm)? No.

[FranciscoG]

BTW israeli's can be dual citizens with the US.

Dual/multi citizenship, with respect to US laws, applies to any nation not just Israel.

One can be a Mexican-American-Brazilian.

If you are of Irish ancestory and you can prove it you are recognized by the Irish as a citizen. There are many examples.

Truth of the matter is I can not think of one greatly positive thing Israel does for the US.

[durak]

^^ They do not lobby for the interests of other nations.

IAPACUSA is organized by Vietnamese Chinese, Cambodian Chinese and Laotian Chinese in the United States of America.


Iranian American PAC is for Iranian Americans http://www.iranianamericanpac.org/about/ms.shtml

Again there is not one lobbing organization that works for the interests of another nation.

Do we have an ACCPAC (American chinese communist political action comm) ? No.

Do we have an IPAC (Iranian political action comm)? No.

You don't think those organizations lobby on behalf of their home country? lol.... Thats kinda like say CAIR does not lobby on behalf of arab nations because they are for american and islamic relations.

To rephrase, you don't think Iranian American PAC gets money from non-american iranians and would never lobby for the interest of iran to have the "right" to atomic energy... lol....

I still say at least the Israeli's put American first.

[Mooseman33]

CAIR-muslim mafia..

great book fellas....what a bunch of crooked fvkts...

[FranciscoG]

You don't think those organizations lobby on behalf of their home country? lol.... Thats kinda like say CAIR does not lobby on behalf of arab nations because they are for american and islamic relations.

To rephrase, you don't think Iranian American PAC gets money from non-american iranians and would never lobby for the interest of iran to have the "right" to atomic energy... lol....

I still say at least the Israeli's put American first.

Fair enough.

Post one speach or fund raising or what have you that has been pro Islamic Iranian government by the Iranian American PAC.

fact of the matter is there is none! Iranian Americans fleed to the US post islamic revolution and do not support that government. But hey I may be wrong so post a source that proves your point.

As for the Israeli PAC putting America first I just do not agree and history is against you there:

5/02/09 Government Drops Case Against Accused AIPAC Spies A trial would have exposed too many U.S. government intelligence secrets, policy making and agents of influence (e.g. Rep. Jane Harman, etc)
4/22/09 Rep. Jane Harman Denies Lobbying for Accused AIPAC Spies Telephone intercepts --Israelis would deny donations to Pelosi unless she appointed Harman as chair of intelligence committee, provided Harman pushed government to drop trial of accused spies. As chair of committee, Harman would have access to top U.S. intelligence info.
3/12/09 Breaking the Taboo on Israel's Spying Efforts on the United States Israel runs one of the most aggressive and damaging espionage networks targeting the U.S., yet public discussion about it is almost nil.

6/12/08 The Spy Who Loves Us Update on spying in America, article in The American Conservative magazine. Difficulty of Pentagon efforts to restrain spying, also Israeli companies manage key monitoring services.

4/28/08 New Arrest of (retired) Spy Worked with same Israeli handler as Pollard, many more spies possible
11/03/07 Rice, Others Told to Testify in AIPAC Case

10/22/06 Feds Probe Top Democrat as Agent for AIPAC amazing that such investigations don't get squashed---U.S. intelligence agents & prosecutors not in pocket of The Lobby
8/18/05 U.S. Diplomat in Iraq Mentioned in AIPAC Indictment case

8/9/05 Bigger than AIPAC -- "FBI has got hold of a dangerous loose end of much larger story. By pulling on that string hard enough, the FBI and the Justice Department might just unravel that larger story, which is beginning to look more and more like it involves the same nexus of Pentagon civilians, White House functionaries, and American Enterprise Institute officials who thumped the drums for war in Iraq in 2001-2003 and who are now trying to whip up an anti-Iranian frenzy as well."
8/5/05 AIPAC lobby officials indicted -- long list of secret information transferred to Israeli Embassy

8/5/05 Britain secretly sold Israel heavy water for nukes in 1958, declassified documents have revealed and French helped too-- not true that all given or allowed by Washington

7/31/05 Neocons, Forgeries & Spies the Federal probes
6/18/05 State of State Secrets by Justin Raimondo in the AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE

6/12/05 Pentagon Analyst Indicted AIPAC case
5/30/05 Why Did Feith Resign Raimondo Update

5/29/05 Haaretz Report on AIPAC & Spy Charges
5/08/05 Larry Franklin and Israeli Espionage
5/05/05 All About Larry Franklin various Raimondo articles

5/05/05 Defense Analyst (Franklin) Charged with disclosing classified info to Israeli lobbyists at AIPAC (65,000 members)
5/05/05 Analysis: A rare peek at what really happened in AIPAC affair Haaretz Report
4/25/05 Shaking Up Israel's Spy Nest--AIPAC scandal resurfaces --lots of interesting links --report by Justin Raimondo

5/05/05 Scandal Stymies Israeli Effort to Pressure Tehran Forward report
4/20/05 2 Senior AIPAC Employees Ousted -- for supplying stolen secrets to Israel
3/17/05 Two AIPAC officials take paid leave over spy probe
3/07/05 FBI Continuing AIPAC Investigation

12/22/04 Israeli Hubris vs. America UPI --investigation continues
12/17/04 FBI Steps Up AIPAC Espionage Probe Christian Science Monitor

12/17/04 Israel's Fifth Column in Washington by Justin Raimondo, Editor Antiwar.com
Spy Case Renews Debate Over Pro-Israel Lobby's Ties to Pentagon NY Times Europeans see case as Washington power struggle
Leak Derails Investigation trail was leading to Israeli government spy contacts
Analysis of AIPAC's methods-contacts always for Likud-against peace parties in Israel

What Really Happened Report --how Fox News deleted all mention of Carl Cameron Report
FBI & Israeli Spy -top Pentacon (Pentagon Neocon) civilian in Feith office--maybe just careless because Sharon gov. & neocons work so closely together-- --see Raimondo's wrapup on the phony Pentagon disinformation shop with many links AIPAC Officials Identified

9/18/04 Evidence that Sharon Likud Agents Formulated U.S. Policies not representing Israel, but rather a faction -- FBI investigation
9/17 Grand Jury Probe Moving Forward activists fear subpoenas-- FOREWARD
9/11 FORWARD reports on reactions inside Jewish community to spying charge some Jews object to accusations of anti-semitism every time Israel opposed

9/11 Neocons Blast Bush for not Blocking Spy Case
9/9 How Foreign Press Sees AIPAC Spying News --viewed as internal power struggle in Washington between Israeli lobby and intelligence agencies

9/6 20 Years of Neocon Spying and Betrayal details, details, security clearances, top U.S. weapons sold to China (by Israel), etc. COUNTERPUNCH
9/6 Spy Case Renews Debate Over Pro-Israel Lobby's Ties to Pentagon NY Times
9/6 Connecting the Dots case is battle by FBI & CIA against Likud dominance in Washington -- by Eric Margolis

9/5 Analysis of AIPAC's methods-contacts
8/31 AIPAC Agents Named -- so close to U.S. government that information & personnel interchangeable
8/30 Leak Derails Investigation NY Times --trail was leading to Israeli government spy contacts
8/29 FBI & Israeli Spy -top Pentacon (Pentagon Neocon) civilian in Feith office was also dual national Israeli Air Force officer--maybe just careless because Israeli Likud & Bush neoconservatives work together-- --also NY TIMES report
Justin Raimondo Background Report on Spying on Antiwar.com lots of links to past events

This partial transcript of Special Report with Brit Hume BRIT HUME, HOST: Last time we reported on an Israeli-based company called Amdocs Ltd. that generates the computerized records and billing data for nearly every phone call made in America. As Carl Cameron reported, U.S. investigators digging into the 9/11 terrorist attacks fear that suspects may have been tipped off to what they were doing by information leaking out of Amdocs.
CIA Probe Finds Secret Pentagon Group Manipulated Intelligence on Iraqi Threat


According to the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, Steven J. Rosen will be allowed to move ahead with his civil defamation lawsuit against the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). Rosen and fellow AIPAC employee Keith Weissman were indicted under the 1917 Espionage Act in 2005 along with Department of Defense Employee Col. Lawrence Franklin for passing classified national defense information. Franklin pled guilty, but Rosen and Weissman’s case never went to trial — US attorneys gave up (PDF) after the presiding judge made a successful prosecution unlikely.

http://original.antiwar.com/smith-gr...-on-americans/


And the list goes on.

[durak]

Truth of the matter is I can not think of one greatly positive thing Israel does for the US.

lol... I kinda figured you felt that way.

[FranciscoG]

CAIR-muslim mafia..

great book fellas....what a bunch of crooked fvkts...

As bad as AIPAC if AIPAC was for Jews only and not israel only. Same shit different name.

[durak]

Fair enough.

Post one speach or fund raising or what have you that has been pro Islamic Iranian government by the Iranian American PAC.

fact of the matter is there is none! Iranian Americans fleed to the US post islamic revolution and do not support that government. But hey I may be wrong so post a source that proves your point.

As for the Israeli PAC putting America first I just do not agree and history is against you there:

5/02/09 Government Drops Case Against Accused AIPAC Spies A trial would have exposed too many U.S. government intelligence secrets, policy making and agents of influence (e.g. Rep. Jane Harman, etc)
4/22/09 Rep. Jane Harman Denies Lobbying for Accused AIPAC Spies Telephone intercepts --Israelis would deny donations to Pelosi unless she appointed Harman as chair of intelligence committee, provided Harman pushed government to drop trial of accused spies. As chair of committee, Harman would have access to top U.S. intelligence info.
3/12/09 Breaking the Taboo on Israel's Spying Efforts on the United States Israel runs one of the most aggressive and damaging espionage networks targeting the U.S., yet public discussion about it is almost nil.

6/12/08 The Spy Who Loves Us Update on spying in America, article in The American Conservative magazine. Difficulty of Pentagon efforts to restrain spying, also Israeli companies manage key monitoring services.

4/28/08 New Arrest of (retired) Spy Worked with same Israeli handler as Pollard, many more spies possible
11/03/07 Rice, Others Told to Testify in AIPAC Case

10/22/06 Feds Probe Top Democrat as Agent for AIPAC amazing that such investigations don't get squashed---U.S. intelligence agents & prosecutors not in pocket of The Lobby
8/18/05 U.S. Diplomat in Iraq Mentioned in AIPAC Indictment case

8/9/05 Bigger than AIPAC -- "FBI has got hold of a dangerous loose end of much larger story. By pulling on that string hard enough, the FBI and the Justice Department might just unravel that larger story, which is beginning to look more and more like it involves the same nexus of Pentagon civilians, White House functionaries, and American Enterprise Institute officials who thumped the drums for war in Iraq in 2001-2003 and who are now trying to whip up an anti-Iranian frenzy as well."
8/5/05 AIPAC lobby officials indicted -- long list of secret information transferred to Israeli Embassy

8/5/05 Britain secretly sold Israel heavy water for nukes in 1958, declassified documents have revealed and French helped too-- not true that all given or allowed by Washington

7/31/05 Neocons, Forgeries & Spies the Federal probes
6/18/05 State of State Secrets by Justin Raimondo in the AMERICAN CONSERVATIVE

6/12/05 Pentagon Analyst Indicted AIPAC case
5/30/05 Why Did Feith Resign Raimondo Update

5/29/05 Haaretz Report on AIPAC & Spy Charges
5/08/05 Larry Franklin and Israeli Espionage
5/05/05 All About Larry Franklin various Raimondo articles

5/05/05 Defense Analyst (Franklin) Charged with disclosing classified info to Israeli lobbyists at AIPAC (65,000 members)
5/05/05 Analysis: A rare peek at what really happened in AIPAC affair Haaretz Report
4/25/05 Shaking Up Israel's Spy Nest--AIPAC scandal resurfaces --lots of interesting links --report by Justin Raimondo

5/05/05 Scandal Stymies Israeli Effort to Pressure Tehran Forward report
4/20/05 2 Senior AIPAC Employees Ousted -- for supplying stolen secrets to Israel
3/17/05 Two AIPAC officials take paid leave over spy probe
3/07/05 FBI Continuing AIPAC Investigation

12/22/04 Israeli Hubris vs. America UPI --investigation continues
12/17/04 FBI Steps Up AIPAC Espionage Probe Christian Science Monitor

12/17/04 Israel's Fifth Column in Washington by Justin Raimondo, Editor Antiwar.com
Spy Case Renews Debate Over Pro-Israel Lobby's Ties to Pentagon NY Times Europeans see case as Washington power struggle
Leak Derails Investigation trail was leading to Israeli government spy contacts
Analysis of AIPAC's methods-contacts always for Likud-against peace parties in Israel

What Really Happened Report --how Fox News deleted all mention of Carl Cameron Report
FBI & Israeli Spy -top Pentacon (Pentagon Neocon) civilian in Feith office--maybe just careless because Sharon gov. & neocons work so closely together-- --see Raimondo's wrapup on the phony Pentagon disinformation shop with many links AIPAC Officials Identified

9/18/04 Evidence that Sharon Likud Agents Formulated U.S. Policies not representing Israel, but rather a faction -- FBI investigation
9/17 Grand Jury Probe Moving Forward activists fear subpoenas-- FOREWARD
9/11 FORWARD reports on reactions inside Jewish community to spying charge some Jews object to accusations of anti-semitism every time Israel opposed

9/11 Neocons Blast Bush for not Blocking Spy Case
9/9 How Foreign Press Sees AIPAC Spying News --viewed as internal power struggle in Washington between Israeli lobby and intelligence agencies

9/6 20 Years of Neocon Spying and Betrayal details, details, security clearances, top U.S. weapons sold to China (by Israel), etc. COUNTERPUNCH
9/6 Spy Case Renews Debate Over Pro-Israel Lobby's Ties to Pentagon NY Times
9/6 Connecting the Dots case is battle by FBI & CIA against Likud dominance in Washington -- by Eric Margolis

9/5 Analysis of AIPAC's methods-contacts
8/31 AIPAC Agents Named -- so close to U.S. government that information & personnel interchangeable
8/30 Leak Derails Investigation NY Times --trail was leading to Israeli government spy contacts
8/29 FBI & Israeli Spy -top Pentacon (Pentagon Neocon) civilian in Feith office was also dual national Israeli Air Force officer--maybe just careless because Israeli Likud & Bush neoconservatives work together-- --also NY TIMES report
Justin Raimondo Background Report on Spying on Antiwar.com lots of links to past events

This partial transcript of Special Report with Brit Hume BRIT HUME, HOST: Last time we reported on an Israeli-based company called Amdocs Ltd. that generates the computerized records and billing data for nearly every phone call made in America. As Carl Cameron reported, U.S. investigators digging into the 9/11 terrorist attacks fear that suspects may have been tipped off to what they were doing by information leaking out of Amdocs.
CIA Probe Finds Secret Pentagon Group Manipulated Intelligence on Iraqi Threat


According to the Jewish Telegraphic Agency, Steven J. Rosen will be allowed to move ahead with his civil defamation lawsuit against the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC). Rosen and fellow AIPAC employee Keith Weissman were indicted under the 1917 Espionage Act in 2005 along with Department of Defense Employee Col. Lawrence Franklin for passing classified national defense information. Franklin pled guilty, but Rosen and Weissman’s case never went to trial — US attorneys gave up (PDF) after the presiding judge made a successful prosecution unlikely.

http://original.antiwar.com/smith-gr...-on-americans/


And the list goes on.

dude... you really need to get a grip. its like you just flipped out and ran to mommy wanting something to cut and paste because you felt insecure about your position... lol...

I suppose you are a truther too. lol....

[FranciscoG]

dude... you really need to get a grip. its like you just flipped out and ran to mommy wanting something to cut and paste because you felt insecure about your position... lol...

I suppose you are a truther too. lol....

No I did not ¨flip out¨ it is a fact that AIPAC has conducted espionage on the United States.

[durak]

No I did not ¨flip out¨ it is a fact that AIPAC has conducted espionage on the United States.

lol... you are a truther! I don't know if you noticed but you seem to be a little angry. If blaming Israel for whatever makes you feel better inside then run with it.

ps. my little dog up there is Israeli and she's watchin you.

lol...

[durak]

Back to topic: Yes Israel is prepared to go it alone. They have lots of nukes and can turn Iran into glass. The main problem is the reaction from other countries outside the middle east. Russia and China are two such examples.

[FranciscoG]

lol... you are a truther! I don't know if you noticed but you seem to be a little angry. If blaming Israel for whatever makes you feel better inside then run with it.

lol...

I have no idea what a truther is!

I am not at all angry, you seam to be very defensive when AIPAC was questioned; I wonder why?

I do not blindly support anyone, so please enlighten me as to why you support AIPAC, besides the whole American is put first in the name.

[lostwars]

- it is not palestinian land

- Iran does not hate israel. iran in fact has a large jewish population. the leadership uses it as a wedge to direct anger away from themselves.

-Learned a lesson from iraq? from the way i see it we now have a huge military foothold in the middle east. look at a map, iran is sandwiched between afganistan and iraq...

its not palestinian land is it not? well come on then brains tell me is it land that God promised to the israeli ppl?
its widely regonisied by every goverment in the world there building jewish settlements on palestinian lands, and not only that there continuing to force muslims from there homes
if we turned this around for a minute and a muslim knocked on your door and said hey do you mind if i take your back yard? if you refused and were then turfed out of your house out on your ear how would you feel?
i bet youd fight tooth and nail to defend your home family and country from such agression
you seem to hate all things muslim which is a sad aspect of your character and your views are widely racist

if israel deserves to exsist so does the palestinian ppl, israel continues to punish ALL the ppl of palestine regardless of the political views or standing with its blockade of ports and border crossings
period

[durak]

its not palestinian land is it not? well come on then brains tell me is it land that God promised to the israeli ppl?
its widely regonisied by every goverment in the world there building jewish settlements on palestinian lands, and not only that there continuing to force muslims from there homes

This has nothing to do with God. Regardless of who was or was not on it in the past, they have it until taken from them by force. That is how all land is owned around the world.

No american can really say otherwise considering what we did to the Native Americans. If israel should give their land back then we should give ours.

if we turned this around for a minute and a muslim knocked on your door and said hey do you mind if i take your back yard? if you refused and were then turfed out of your house out on your ear how would you feel?
i bet youd fight tooth and nail to defend your home family and country from such agression

You are exactly correct. Except you can remove the word muslim and replace it with anyone trying to take my land or my countries. That is what makes it our land.

you seem to hate all things muslim which is a sad aspect of your character and your views are widely racist

We were having such a good conversation until this. You know nothing about me. You did not know my best man in my wedding was a muslim. You did not know I spent time in pakistan (and southern India). My family does business in the UAE and Saudi Arabia. I have been exposed to the muslim culture my entire life and know that the 95% that are not radical are some of the kindest people on earth.

You know as well as I do that the whole issue with israel/palestine is used by the arab countries to focus anger away from their governments. Many of the governments don't want the issue solved for that reason alone. Hamas does not care for a 2 state solution. Entertaining the idea is a waste of time because the powers at play do not want one.

iif israel deserves to exsist so does the palestinian ppl, israel continues to punish ALL the ppl of palestine regardless of the political views or standing with its blockade of ports and border crossings period

No country deserves to exist except by force. It is sad how the regular palestinian people are suffering. In college I was fortunate to meet many palestinians and jewish people (from israel). I was shocked to find that they really just wanted to get along. Both sides (normal every day people not politicians) were tired of living in a war zone and only wanted their family to be able to live in peace with the other side.

[Flagg]

Yeah there isn't a nation around today that was created on the bones of the people they obliterated before them.

But just because that's always been the rule of thumb, means it's okay to carry on like that?

We're supposed to be living in the 21st Century now. The mentality of humans does not change, and what is frightening is that every single day we invent something capable of obliterating entire cities and massive land areas. Sooner or later, an unstable leader is going to slip through the net with access to an arsenal capable of destroying 90% of the human population.

[lostwars]

i apoligise if i offended you regarding my slur but i believe its high time israel was made face its responsibilities towards world peace or more so the peace in the middle east
enough blood shed has been spilled since its inception, strangely enough britain has a lot to answer for, for the way it effectively left the key under the mat and did a runner
firstly both ppl deserve a goverment that can bring both prosperity and hope to the ppl of either country, as you say we now find its a hopeless situation, HAMAS are obviously quite happy for the innocence of there youth to be destroyed by sending them out to cause untold despair from suicide bombings, or to die at the hands of a israeli soldier who more than likely would rather be at home with his family
for me suicide bombings of this kind is desperation at its worst, if israel was to stop fueling the hamas flames of hatred maybe we could get beyond this madness
but the israeli continuation of the new berlin wall so to speak and its construction of new israeli settlements and the international embargo at ports and checkpoints is feeding this madness we see every day of the week

to think we had a chance to really solve this problem when clinton was president is very sad, as i said hamas will rule as long as a hard line israeli goverment rules
we need the states to push this peace upon the israelis and palestinians, hopefully obama will be brave enough to go for it in time
for all of hamas hardline speel they have to know in private that israel is here to stay,

[durak]

i apoligise if i offended you regarding my slur but i believe its high time israel was made face its responsibilities towards world peace or more so the peace in the middle east
enough blood shed has been spilled since its inception, strangely enough britain has a lot to answer for, for the way it effectively left the key under the mat and did a runner
firstly both ppl deserve a goverment that can bring both prosperity and hope to the ppl of either country, as you say we now find its a hopeless situation, HAMAS are obviously quite happy for the innocence of there youth to be destroyed by sending them out to cause untold despair from suicide bombings, or to die at the hands of a israeli soldier who more than likely would rather be at home with his family
for me suicide bombings of this kind is desperation at its worst, if israel was to stop fueling the hamas flames of hatred maybe we could get beyond this madness
but the israeli continuation of the new berlin wall so to speak and its construction of new israeli settlements and the international embargo at ports and checkpoints is feeding this madness we see every day of the week

to think we had a chance to really solve this problem when clinton was president is very sad, as i said hamas will rule as long as a hard line israeli goverment rules
we need the states to push this peace upon the israelis and palestinians, hopefully obama will be brave enough to go for it in time
for all of hamas hardline speel they have to know in private that israel is here to stay,

You make the most sense out of any other person on the other side of the issue from me. It is good to see we can speak the truth and then add our opinion on what should or could be done (that is where we differ).
Personally I think peace cannot be pushed on them. Too many forces do want want peace. Some within the conflict and most outside the borders of israel/palestine.

I do find it strange that for some reason the borders of "palestine" are never considered infringed upon by egypt, lebanon, syria, jordan... for some reason only the land that israel is on not an inch less, not an inch more...
If we were to really talk about a true Palestinian state, other countries should cough up some land too.

[durak]

It seems much of this discussion focuses on Israel and Palestine. Those not in favor of israel see it as occupying the land of palestinians.

This is an honest question I never thought about until yesterday. Why is Israel the only bad guy? Are Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria (maybe Egypt) not to some extent on Palestinian land? Why don't they commit to giving their land away for their fellow arabs?

This was in wikipedia

As a geographic term, Palestine can refer to 'ancient Palestine,' an area that today includes Israel and the Israeli-occupied [2] Palestinian territories, as well as part of Jordan, and some of both Lebanon and Syria.[1]

I honestly don't know. My true belief is land is owned by those that can keep it by force. The ways is has always been and will be. But I am curious to here from those that are always on the anti-israel bandwagon.

[Superhero d-bolman]

First of all Israel would kick Irans ass in a war...

1st reason would be is because Iran greatly overstates its budget

2nd look at Israels war history... Yom Kippur, the six day war... in only six days of fighting the IDF only lost 600 men and killed over 15,000. and in both those wars that was fighting 3 Arab nations at the same time.

3rd of all i know since Israel is such a small state many of u think it is puny but Israel is pound for pound the strongest military in the world... it is the closet thing we have to a Greek spartan state.

[Superhero d-bolman]

AIPAC, Arguably the most powerful organization in DC!

They have a good tactic.

If your country happens to be borrowing money from, ohhhhhh China, to fund Israel and you FOR ANY reason do not support that they simply call you a racist!

You see the problem is not the individual citizens of the UK or US. The problem is our political leaders do not have balls.

So while all this goes on our welfare client does whatever she wants.

Make our VP look like a bitch --- Check
Tell the Arabs no matter what kind of peace is reached they will not remove troops from the West bank --- Check
Built new ¨settlement¨ while daddy demands that the welfare bitch should not --- Check

Help in anyway --- Hell no


I can not see one aspect that the nation of Israel adds positively to the US or UK, can you?

i don't believe you understand politics and warfare and the whole story about the west bank... Israel took the west bank in the six day war among other things because they were probably about to be invaded... and no, israel could not wait to be invaded because since israel is such a small country that if israel were to be taken over it wouldn't take long at all.


its as simple as this...

arab people want to see all the jewish people die, genocide, etc... Israelis just wanta kick em out of there homes for that... 3rd of all remember this about the muslim people in the arab world..