Is Israel getting ready to go it alone?

[FranciscoG]

i don't believe you understand politics and warfare and the whole story about the west bank... Israel took the west bank in the six day war among other things because they were probably about to be invaded... and no, israel could not wait to be invaded because since israel is such a small country that if israel were to be taken over it wouldn't take long at all.


its as simple as this...

arab people want to see all the jewish people die, genocide, etc... Israelis just wanta kick em out of there homes for that... 3rd of all remember this about the muslim people in the arab world..

That was relevant to the quoted post how?

Like saying hey I have Cancer but let me talk to you about this mold on my ass... Relevant?

[corestorm]

I dont think Israel has the fire power, man power or support to go it alone. It would NEED support.

They aure as **** didnt give a shit about their relations with the UK though. I couldnt have really seen those assasins on fake US documents, could you?

sure they do man israel has a beast of an army

[Superhero d-bolman]

That was relevant to the quoted post how?

Like saying hey I have Cancer but let me talk to you about this mold on my ass... Relevant?

dang i guess it wasn't relevent, alright i read the whole post. I think you forget how many terrorists whom are common enemies of israel, are common enemies of us. Yes lots of times they say the reason they bombed was because of our choice to hurt israel. But believe me as long as we do things like...

Station troops on muslim holy soil, this is actually what i believe triggered osama bin laden to really have it out for us, when we stationed troops on Saudi soil.
Do business deals that make muslims either lose their jobs, or make them feel as if they are being paid unfairly.
Put a god damn picture of him on tv or whatever.

They will find a reason to want to bomb us.

3rd of all the supposed "welfare" they get is only 3 billion dollars in aide out of the united states 14 trillion dollar gdp a tiny fraction, the welfare that actually matters is all the shit thats going on in iraq and afghanstan.

4th of all, yes the west bank you think they should withdraw but lemme tell you something about arabs and israel... It is a mob world there very different from western nations dealing with other western nations...

Its the same thing with the United states and the soviet union. When it came to the commies Retreating on your ground would only make them ask for more just like in the movie thirteen days, thats the reason the cuban missile crisis was such a big deal.

The fact of the matter is, is that Most arab nations not only want israel to withdraw from the west bank, but to cease as a state. Believe me they withdraw from the westbank, or that matter in itself show any form of weakness, they'll find something else they want.

And although while i do agree with your belief on how the "if you don't support israeli, your anti-semetic 80%) remember this, The israeli people don't want to see us die. Although i can't say for sure about most of the Arab people. Most of the people in the Arab governments sure as hell aren't your friend, and could careless about you or your family.

If the United states went through the same shit with canada as israel did with the arab nations, we'd be worse then them.

[Superhero d-bolman]

How many of you American guys actually like your country donating shed loads of cash, Israels way?

I mean yep, the whole debate of "Israel has the right to defend herself against islamic insurgents" has been beaten to death. However, surely the only reason she can defend herself in the first place is because of American funding. My history isn't the greatest but wasn't Israel always originally, an Arab state?

Israel to me just comes across as a huge pain in the ass for America, in my opinion. With the financial state of the country, surely you have better things you could be spending your money on.

Like Kratos said, its a shame that the West cant form new ties with Iran over their nuclear program and even help them develop it.

Whatever way you look at it, Israel declaring they are going to bomb any nuclear facilities that goes into production, is wrong, and I really don't like the fact that the US and UK are going to be forced to back up Israel in yet another pointless war in the Middle East.

jews had the holocaust muslims didn't, that's another reason why they had gotten the land of israel, another reason was is because jewish people and muslims had been fighting over it for years, and it was only going to get worse after the holocaust and it wasn't going to end sometime soon. and the great welfare you are talking about is only 3 billion dollars in military aid per year considering that the fact that the united states makes nearly 14 trillion dollars per year, what is it that like 5 bucks at the absolute most in your taxes per year?

[eliteforce]

jews had the holocaust muslims didn't, that's another reason why they had gotten the land of israel, another reason was is because jewish people and muslims had been fighting over it for years, and it was only going to get worse after the holocaust and it wasn't going to end sometime soon. and the great welfare you are talking about is only 3 billion dollars in military aid per year considering that the fact that the united states makes nearly 14 trillion dollars per year, what is it that like 5 bucks at the absolute most in your taxes per year?

This is wrong, muslims and jews were never fighting over Palestine before zionism, which was only invented in the late 1800's and there wasn't significant immigration to palestine until the 1930's. Prior to the modern era (middle eastern jews and arabs had always been united against european invaders, particularly the crusaders-which expelled and murdered all jews and muslims that they came into contact with, when the crusaders reached jerusalem in the 1st crusade, they killed all the jews and muslims in the city and the rest fled, it was the arabs that allowed jews to return after the crusaders were defeated 88 years later. same thing happened with the byzantine impire, byzantines threw jews out, arabs conquered palestine and let jews back in.. Zionism was invented by european, askenazi jews, jews descended from kazaria or russia..so in that sense it is more of a crusade.

another question of cource is if jews suffered during the holoucaust, why are the arabs paying the price? 40 million soviets died in wwii and millions of gypsies, 8 million were killed in death camps by stalin.. wheres their palestine? should we expel the angolans and give it to them?
what happens when the last holucaust survivor dies, should israel then be abolished?

[eliteforce]

If you drive around that country you will understand why, to the east of where the bulk of the population in the west bank lives, there is the empty desert jordan valley, and on the other side is more rural land until you reach the suburbs of Amman jordan, Palestinians economic and agricultural lives are based around it and Israel, that was why it was separate from jordan in the first place, the gaza strip is stuck between israel and the mostly dry and empty sinai and separated from the west bank, which makes it an open air prison..you can't just take bits and peices of 5 different countries and make it so Palestinians can have normal lives, they have to have a single continuous area or a single state solution with israel, its about giving the people a normal existence like every other country in the world.

It seems much of this discussion focuses on Israel and Palestine. Those not in favor of israel see it as occupying the land of palestinians.

This is an honest question I never thought about until yesterday. Why is Israel the only bad guy? Are Jordan, Lebanon, and Syria (maybe Egypt) not to some extent on Palestinian land? Why don't they commit to giving their land away for their fellow arabs?

[eliteforce]

its as simple as this...

arab people want to see all the jewish people die, genocide, etc... Israelis just wanta kick em out of there homes for that... 3rd of all remember this about the muslim people in the arab world..

well theres alot of hate out there-and you obviously hate all arabs and want them all dead thats why you make this vitriolic statement, I think very few arab people "want to see all jews die" most arab people are hard working family people, they want to see justice for Palestinian suffering and polls show the majority want an agreement based on full israeli withdrawal to the 1967 borders, not an aphartied scheme like Israels government.

and ofcource there are your jewish settler friends, burning Palestinian olive trees, poisoning wells, vandalizing property, throwing rocks at palestinian school children, evicting Palestinians out of their houses, seizing their land..these people wanna see all arabs live and prosper thats for sure.

dang i guess it wasn't relevent, alright i read the whole post. I think you forget how many terrorists whom are common enemies of israel, are common enemies of us. Yes lots of times they say the reason they bombed was because of our choice to hurt israel. But believe me as long as we do things like...

Station troops on muslim holy soil, this is actually what i believe triggered osama bin laden to really have it out for us, when we stationed troops on Saudi soil.
Do business deals that make muslims either lose their jobs, or make them feel as if they are being paid unfairly.
Put a god damn picture of him on tv or whatever.

They will find a reason to want to bomb us.

The US never had any enemies in the middle east before it started supporting israel..the rest of that, like stationing troops there is part of a general situation of instability, mostly caused by israeli oppression.. or why the US needs troops station in iraq or kuwait or afghanistan forever at this point everyone is scratching their heads..some crap about lets fight them there so we don't fight them here and keep de-humaizing the Palestinians, because treating the Palestinians like human beings would embolden the terrorists.

4th of all, yes the west bank you think they should withdraw but lemme tell you something about arabs and israel... It is a mob world there very different from western nations dealing with other western nations...

Its the same thing with the United states and the soviet union. When it came to the commies Retreating on your ground would only make them ask for more just like in the movie thirteen days, thats the reason the cuban missile crisis was such a big deal.

The fact of the matter is, is that Most arab nations not only want israel to withdraw from the west bank, but to cease as a state. Believe me they withdraw from the westbank, or that matter in itself show any form of weakness, they'll find something else they want.

And although while i do agree with your belief on how the "if you don't support israeli, your anti-semetic 80%) remember this, The israeli people don't want to see us die. Although i can't say for sure about most of the Arab people. Most of the people in the Arab governments sure as hell aren't your friend, and could careless about you or your family.

If the United states went through the same shit with canada as israel did with the arab nations, we'd be worse then them.

'we' would never be a racist aphartied state in the first place, and 'we' never expelled canadians from america and stole there land and we don't keep them confined to bantustans..its a stupid example, if the US treated it's blacks like the israelis treat the Palestinians.. you remeber the riots in LA in 92-this was just because a black man was beaten by white cops..despite the fact that the US has equal rights laws and israel has none.

if israel withdrew from the WB and Palestinians launched terrorist attacks from it, they could always re-invade it, they have nothing to loose but a bunch of settlements that create an undemocratic aphartied state.. more recently the Palestinians in the WB have been using non-violent resistance and the only thing it has gotten them is more settlements and house demolitions and violent settler raids

This is an interesting article that discusses the full extent of israels segregationist policies:
http://www.redress.cc/zionism/jcook20100427

in particular how their policies extend to arab citizens of israel..

[FranciscoG]

dang i guess it wasn't relevent, alright i read the whole post. I think you forget how many terrorists whom are common enemies of israel, are common enemies of us. Yes lots of times they say the reason they bombed was because of our choice to hurt israel. But believe me as long as we do things like...

Station troops on muslim holy soil, this is actually what i believe triggered osama bin laden to really have it out for us, when we stationed troops on Saudi soil.Very true in fact Bin Laden said post 9/11 his main goal was to get the US out of SA. Bush closed down the USAF base around 2004ish.
Do business deals that make muslims either lose their jobs, or make them feel as if they are being paid unfairly.
Put a god damn picture of him on tv or whatever.

They will find a reason to want to bomb us.

3rd of all the supposed "welfare" they get is only 3 billion dollars in aide out of the united states 14 trillion dollar gdp a tiny fraction, the welfare that actually matters is all the shit thats going on in iraq and afghanstan.I don´t think you understand my point. I will elaborate on the reply

4th of all, yes the west bank you think they should withdraw No but lemme tell you something about arabs and israel... It is a mob world there very different from western nations dealing with other western nations...I believe Israel is an independant (besides welfare)state. What they do or not do I could care less

Its the same thing with the United states and the soviet union. When it came to the commies Retreating on your ground would only make them ask for more just like in the movie thirteen days, thats the reason the cuban missile crisis was such a big deal.A very different issue

The fact of the matter is, is that Most arab nations not only want israel to withdraw from the west bank, but to cease as a state. Believe me they withdraw from the westbank, or that matter in itself show any form of weakness, they'll find something else they want. Not my problem.

And although while i do agree with your belief on how the "if you don't support israeli, your anti-semetic 80%) remember this, The israeli people don't want to see us die. Although i can't say for sure about most of the Arab people. Most of the people in the Arab governments sure as hell aren't your friend, and could careless about you or your family.I believe when you do not support Israel you are called anti-semetic. Again I could care less what they do or not do

If the United states went through the same shit with canada as israel did with the arab nations, we'd be worse then them.

I believe there is a difference between a hand-out and helping those that need help.

Some place along the road, oh like 60+ years, that nation should become independant and not dependant. So supporting a begger for 60+ years is different than supporting a nation that just had a ________ for a few months.

As for the problems that nations does and does not have, those are thier problems.

It does say much about a nation that is dependant for 60+ years. One would think thier people would stop putting thier hands out for a hand-out some place along the line.

[FranciscoG]

jews had the holocaust muslims didn't, that's another reason why they had gotten the land of israel, another reason was is because jewish people and muslims had been fighting over it for years, and it was only going to get worse after the holocaust and it wasn't going to end sometime soon. and the great welfare you are talking about is only 3 billion dollars in military aid per year considering that the fact that the united states makes nearly 14 trillion dollars per year, what is it that like 5 bucks at the absolute most in your taxes per year?

Why do I have to pay for it. I am not a Nazi. I did not kill any jews.

I live in Mexico. I moved out of the US 3rd quarter of 2009.

I will still have to pay income tax on the money I make in Mexico in 2010. That´s right I have to pay IRS taxes on 4/15/2011.

The holocaust happened 60-70 years ago. It was not carried out by the US. Why doesn´t the jewish nation sue Germany for the hand-out.

[Superhero d-bolman]

Why do I have to pay for it. I am not a Nazi. I did not kill any jews.

I live in Mexico. I moved out of the US 3rd quarter of 2009.

I will still have to pay income tax on the money I make in Mexico in 2010. That´s right I have to pay IRS taxes on 4/15/2011.

The holocaust happened 60-70 years ago. It was not carried out by the US. Why doesn´t the jewish nation sue Germany for the hand-out.

good point i agree with that fully. Also i'm pretty sure i came off a lil too pro isreali for your tastes. I dunno if you figured this out by now but my father is jewish. So i feel a very strong sense of nationalism for the country of israel.

[FranciscoG]

good point i agree with that fully. Also i'm pretty sure i came off a lil too pro isreali for your tastes. I dunno if you figured this out by now but my father is jewish. So i feel a very strong sense of nationalism for the country of israel.

That´s cool nothing wrong with that.

My parents are both from latino/a countries and I also feel a strong latin sense of pride.

I don´t see the jewish people taking care of themselves as a problem, however I feel like it is not my responsibility to feed them.

[durak]

Let's say I understand your problem about handouts. You state that it is not your responsibility to feed them. Hence you have negative feelings toward them.

What about the fact that our elected officials give them the money. You are unhappy that they take it, not that both dems and repubs are offering it.

[FranciscoG]

Let's say I understand your problem about handouts. You state that it is not your responsibility to feed them. Hence you have negative feelings toward them.I will fully admit that I have no respect for people that take handouts.

What about the fact that our elected officials give them the money. You are unhappy that they take it, not that both dems and repubs are offering it.As I stated earlier this is lobbied for by AIPAC. I feel that any group that represents the interests of another nation should not be allowed to lobby within the US.

More over, I feel that any groups whose members have committed an act of espionage should not be allowed to exist.

[durak]

Me: What about the fact that our elected officials give them the money. You are unhappy that they take it, not that both dems and repubs are offering it.
You: As I stated earlier this is lobbied for by AIPAC. I feel that any group that represents the interests of another nation should not be allowed to lobby within the US.

You deflected the question. No matter what lobby exists, our officials are still choosing to give/offer them the money. They are not taking it from us (it is freely given).

More over, I feel that any groups whose members have committed an act of espionage should not be allowed to exist.

So should chinese and russian groups be dismantled? They commit espionage all the time here. Infiltrate our labs and sensitive areas. And you cannot say that group x from china is not apart of group y from china that did the espionage. They are one in the same.

[FranciscoG]

You deflected the question. No matter what lobby exists, our officials are still choosing to give/offer them the money. They are not taking it from us (it is freely given).Choosing once lobbied. No one would care about Israel if AIPAC was not around. I also feel like people should be held financially liable, if they are called others racist without solid proff.




So should chinese and russian groups be dismantled? They commit espionage all the time here. Infiltrate our labs and sensitive areas. And you cannot say that group x from china is not apart of group y from china that did the espionage. They are one in the same. Yes, all groups that lobby for the interests of other nations

It is ironic. I have had this conversation many times in the last 20 years.

1) Some one does not support handing out a free living and they are called anti-semi or fill in the blank some other name calling tactic ________________.

2) Then we have someone shoving the holocaust up our asses like every US citizen should be held accountable for crimes committed by Hitler.


3) Then there is some abstract bull shit that has no relevance to the issue.


Here I will close my thought with 2 questions:

For all the pro Israel supporters.

1) Why is there not an effort make to get off welfare after 60+ years? 2) Why do the American public have to provide a free living for the nation of Israel?

You never hear this explained.

Okay, back to the pro handout lobby.

[JJ78]

Carrier Strike Group 10, headed by the USS Harry S. Truman aircraft carrier, sails out of the US Navy base at Norfolk, Virginia Friday, May 21. On arrival, it will raise the number of US carriers off Iranian shores to two. Up until now, President Barack Obama kept just one aircraft carrier stationed off the coast of Iran, the USS Dwight D. Eisenhower in the Arabian Sea, in pursuit of his policy of diplomatic engagement with Tehran.

For the first time, too, the US force opposite Iran will be joined by a German warship, the frigate FGS Hessen, operating under American command.

It is also the first time that Obama, since taking office 14 months ago, is sending military reinforcements to the Persian Gulf. Our military sources have learned that the USS Truman is just the first element of the new buildup of US resources around Iran. It will take place over the next three months, reaching peak level in late July and early August. By then, the Pentagon plans to have at least 4 or 5 US aircraft carriers visible from Iranian shores.

The USS Truman's accompanying Strike Group includes Carrier Air Wing Three (Battle Axe) - which has 7 squadrons - 4 of F/A-18 Super Hornet and F/A-18 Hornet bomber jets, as well as spy planes and early warning E-2 Hawkeyes that can operate in all weather conditions; the Electronic Attack Squadron 130 for disrupting enemy radar systems; and Squadron 7 of helicopters for anti-submarine combat (In its big naval exercise last week, Iran exhibited the Velayat 89 long-range missile for striking US aircraft carriers and Israel warships from Iranian submarines.)

Another four US warships will be making their way to the region to join the USS Truman and its Strike Group. They are the guided-missile cruiser USS Normandy and guided missile destroyers USS Winston S. Churchill, USS Oscar Austin and USS Ross

I copied and pasted this from a site
Scary Shit!!!!

[tupollo]

They'll be fighting in the middle east long after the oil is gone...and you know what they'll be fighting with?








Sticks and cammels

Albert Einstein " I know not with what weapons World War III will be fought, but world War IV will be fought with sticks and stones."

[gluteus]

I dont think Israel has the fire power, man power or support to go it alone. It would NEED support.

They aure as **** didnt give a shit about their relations with the UK though. I couldnt have really seen those assasins on fake US documents, could you?

they have the full support of the US, how much more firepower would they need?

[quarry206]

they have the full support of the US, how much more firepower would they need?

they don't have the support they once did from the US.. I just honestly think that the USA will not jump fully into a war, if Israel starts it

[BignBig]

I dont believe that the Middle East political land scape has shaped yet to eliminate Iran. US Plan for Irak hasn't come out as planned (this is not South Korea or Japan)?!?!
Any aggression by Isreal will get other Arabs and Muslum countries in. Syria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia ... and others far away from Middle East such as Pakistan.

[wanabeMASSIVE!]

America will back Israel 100% they always have and always will...

[wanabeMASSIVE!]

Agreed with BignBig. ww3 is on its way...