AGGRESSIVE PCT needed for 2 year cycle

[G-Force]

ok ive been cycling for 2 years solid

usually 12 - 16 weeks on and 10 - 14 weeks cruise on 250 - 375mg test per week

it seems like ive been only doin this for about a year but i guess if i am honest its more like 2 years

i need to get off cycle as my stomach is very bad - acid reflux and hiatus hernia - i just cant get the calories in anymore
also i have had acompressed lower disc for a while now and need to fix both these things before i start lifintg heavy again

so normally when i used to do pct i would use nolva and clomid for 6 weeks post cycle -sometimes with hcg the last 4 weeks of my cycle

but i have not done pct in 2 years lol and i understand things have changed

i have seen swifto's pct involving aromasin and hcg

i have never used aromasin

i am looking for compounds and doses - considering the length of my cycle i am unsure on best compounds and doses. how about the addition of caber?

i am just comming to the end of a 12 week test (850mg), EQ (800mg) deca (700mg) cycle

money is not an issue - i am just lookin the best possible pct (EVER lol)

cheers

[Big]

My first call would be to use HCG for the remainder of the cycle, then nolva, clomid, and aromasin for pct. I'll stand down and wait for swifto's advice, he knows a lot more about pct than I do.

[Swifto]

ok ive been cycling for 2 years solid

usually 12 - 16 weeks on and 10 - 14 weeks cruise on 250 - 375mg test per week

it seems like ive been only doin this for about a year but i guess if i am honest its more like 2 years

i need to get off cycle as my stomach is very bad - acid reflux and hiatus hernia - i just cant get the calories in anymore
also i have had acompressed lower disc for a while now and need to fix both these things before i start lifintg heavy again

so normally when i used to do pct i would use nolva and clomid for 6 weeks post cycle -sometimes with hcg the last 4 weeks of my cycle

but i have not done pct in 2 years lol and i understand things have changed

i have seen swifto's pct involving aromasin and hcg

i have never used aromasin

i am looking for compounds and doses - considering the length of my cycle i am unsure on best compounds and doses. how about the addition of caber?

i am just comming to the end of a 12 week test (850mg), EQ (800mg) deca (700mg) cycle

money is not an issue - i am just lookin the best possible pct (EVER lol)

cheers

OK...

Have you been using HCG throughout your cycle, or at all?

[G-Force]

OK...

Have you been using HCG throughout your cycle, or at all?

yeah usually a small amount towards the end of my blast

but only something like 500iu EOd for 20 days

[Swifto]

yeah usually a small amount towards the end of my blast

but only something like 500iu EOd for 20 days

Do you have testicular atrophy? Have you ever had testicular atrophy during this 2 year cycle?

[OH REALLY]

help the man swifto

[TITANIUM]

Swifto is on this, as I see Marcus is also.

I'm going to watch this closely, as I haven't seen such a long cycle except the pro BB's and basically TRT members.

T

[Gaspari1255]

ok ive been cycling for 2 years solid

usually 12 - 16 weeks on and 10 - 14 weeks cruise on 250 - 375mg test per week

it seems like ive been only doin this for about a year but i guess if i am honest its more like 2 years

i need to get off cycle as my stomach is very bad - acid reflux and hiatus hernia - i just cant get the calories in anymore
also i have had acompressed lower disc for a while now and need to fix both these things before i start lifintg heavy again

so normally when i used to do pct i would use nolva and clomid for 6 weeks post cycle -sometimes with hcg the last 4 weeks of my cycle

but i have not done pct in 2 years lol and i understand things have changed

i have seen swifto's pct involving aromasin and hcg

i have never used aromasin

i am looking for compounds and doses - considering the length of my cycle i am unsure on best compounds and doses. how about the addition of caber?

i am just comming to the end of a 12 week test (850mg), EQ (800mg) deca (700mg) cycle

money is not an issue - i am just lookin the best possible pct (EVER lol)

cheers

I don't see how you are escaping TRT...jmo

[Vitruvian-Man]

ok ive been cycling for 2 years solid

usually 12 - 16 weeks on and 10 - 14 weeks cruise on 250 - 375mg test per week

it seems like ive been only doin this for about a year but i guess if i am honest its more like 2 years

i need to get off cycle as my stomach is very bad - acid reflux and hiatus hernia - i just cant get the calories in anymore
also i have had acompressed lower disc for a while now and need to fix both these things before i start lifintg heavy again

so normally when i used to do pct i would use nolva and clomid for 6 weeks post cycle -sometimes with hcg the last 4 weeks of my cycle

but i have not done pct in 2 years lol and i understand things have changed

i have seen swifto's pct involving aromasin and hcg

i have never used aromasin

i am looking for compounds and doses - considering the length of my cycle i am unsure on best compounds and doses. how about the addition of caber?

i am just comming to the end of a 12 week test (850mg), EQ (800mg) deca (700mg) cycle

money is not an issue - i am just lookin the best possible pct (EVER lol)

cheers

24 months on cycle? I'm going to have to agree with ****** here... You've probably set yourself up for TRT... sorry bro.

Anyways, you should definitely get in touch with an Endocrinologist (since money isn't an issue).... They would be the best person to be monitoring your attempt at restoring your HPTA (test-production). I would definitely want a specialist monitoring my blood-work in a situation like this.

Anyways, I was just helping someone in a similar situation in another thread.. you should probably read through it for some good info. (pay special attention to post #6)

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...35#post4930235

Good luck.

[sportfan33]

just reading the threads, will be following this up

[Swifto]

You can bounce back, I've seen some bounce back after more than 2 years, but this is VERY individual. You may have saved yourself from HRT by using HCG whilst "on". But if testicular dysfunction has set in fully, your going to struggle.

My advice is to stay on a very low dose of Test Enan 100-150mg/wk, then run HCG at 500ius/ED for 14-21 days with Arimidex 0.5mg/EOD or Aromasin 10mg/EOD. That should kick your testes into action again and hopefully stimulate the leydig cells into producing endogenous T.

Drop the AI the on day 14 or 21, whenever your testes regain volume/size. Alhtough I'd be inclined to go 21 days.

Then you need some Tore and Clomid. If you cant handle the Clomid sides, use Tamox at 20mg/ED.

Tore 120/120/100/60/60/60
Clomid 100/50/25/25/25/25 OR Tamox 20/20/20/20/20/20

Get BW done 5-6 weeks after that and if you havent bounced back, go see an Endo, you may need HRT. Although some studies on SERMs restoring the HPTA are as long as 12 weeks. You could go 12 weeks if you want too.

[G-Force]

thanks swifto and vit...man

my testes never really went smaller on cycle - not that i noticed anyway
so i am guessing thats a good thing

so you are sayin run test 100 - 150mg per week JUST while i am taking the hcg ??
you didnt specify when to stop the test?

i can handle clomid sides no problem - i was planning on using both the nolva and clomid together? i have never heard of TORE? what is this?


i am obviously very worried about my sex drive
i have a very hot / lovely girlfriend and dont wana lose her
how about the addition of caber during pct?

[sportfan33]

well i hope ur relatinoship isnt based on just sex

[Swifto]

thanks swifto and vit...man

my testes never really went smaller on cycle - not that i noticed anyway
so i am guessing thats a good thing

so you are sayin run test 100 - 150mg per week JUST while i am taking the hcg ??
you didnt specify when to stop the test?

i can handle clomid sides no problem - i was planning on using both the nolva and clomid together? i have never heard of TORE? what is this?


i am obviously very worried about my sex drive
i have a very hot / lovely girlfriend and dont wana lose her
how about the addition of caber during pct?

Caber isnt needed as I dont think your prolactin will be elevated, but if you want to use it for its effects on dopamine (orgasm's) go ahead. But the safer option is viagra or cialis.

Toremifene Citrate. Its a very good SERM at restarting the HPTA. I'll PM you...

Keep the Test going now, if your still on cycle at 100-150mg/wk, then use the HCG as I stated with an AI. Then begin PCT with a combination of SERMs. 5-6 weeks later, bloodwork.

Tribulas can be used to raise labido 1-2g/ED, but will do nada for androgen production.

[OH REALLY]

swifto swifto

[Swifto]

swifto swifto

Yes...

[G-Force]

cheers swifto
i am going to do my last jab of test enanthate , eq and deca on monday
do 3 weeks of hcg 500 iu ED with arimidex .5mg EOD
will continue running test prop at 50mg EOD for 3 weeks - i want to add in some masteron - 100mg EOD at this phase because i want to do a 3 week low carb diet
so that i can cram the carbs in during pct and rebound

then start clomid / nolva after 3 weeks and run until my sex drive comes back
and maybe Tore if i can get hold of it

was thinking abouit tribulus but i have read studies that it can actually be suppressive to your HPTA in high doses.....

[Swifto]

cheers swifto
i am going to do my last jab of test enanthate , eq and deca on monday
do 3 weeks of hcg 500 iu ED with arimidex .5mg EOD
will continue running test prop at 50mg EOD for 3 weeks - i want to add in some masteron - 100mg EOD at this phase because i want to do a 3 week low carb diet
so that i can cram the carbs in during pct and rebound

then start clomid / nolva after 3 weeks and run until my sex drive comes back
and maybe Tore if i can get hold of it

was thinking abouit tribulus but i have read studies that it can actually be suppressive to your HPTA in high doses.....

Tribulas shows no androgenic effect in peer-reviewed published studies. Even the recent ones (most resent on women months ago) shows no increase in anything. No androgenic effect, means both raising/lowering androgen production, but it will raise labido.

If you dont want to use that, use Tongkat Ali. In animal research in massive doses, it actually showed an elevation of LH and T. It probably a better option, but dont spend the extra on "standardized" extracts becuase there nothing but a rip off.

[charlesriley]

this thread is favorited

[DS44]

How Ironic is this post, i have to say thanks I need help also with my long cycle....2 years to be exact!


I have been doing 1cc 250mg test enthate every 6 days for 2 years and i'm currently still on, but looking to come off. i have not used any HCG during this cycle. for the last 8 weeks i have been using 200 mgs of deca along with the test every 6 days... Well I 'm ready to come off and swift to i need your advice....

i have arimidex on hand and would like to use that instead of novaldex for PCT... Swift if you could just help me out with the clomid and any other ideas to come off and get my natural test functioning it would be appreciate....


I have run many cycles in my life time but this low test dose long cycle adding one other AAS every 8 weeks or so has been awesome with quality gains..

currrent stats 40yrs, 265lbs 37 inch waist

thanks swifto for your help...

PS sorry for hijacking thread...

thanks
DS

[Swifto]

How Ironic is this post, i have to say thanks I need help also with my long cycle....2 years to be exact!


I have been doing 1cc 250mg test enthate every 6 days for 2 years and i'm currently still on, but looking to come off. i have not used any HCG during this cycle. for the last 8 weeks i have been using 200 mgs of deca along with the test every 6 days... Well I 'm ready to come off and swift to i need your advice....

i have arimidex on hand and would like to use that instead of novaldex for PCT... Swift if you could just help me out with the clomid and any other ideas to come off and get my natural test functioning it would be appreciate....


I have run many cycles in my life time but this low test dose long cycle adding one other AAS every 8 weeks or so has been awesome with quality gains..

currrent stats 40yrs, 265lbs 37 inch waist

thanks swifto for your help...

PS sorry for hijacking thread...

thanks
DS

Get off the Deca and run a low dose of Test Enan 100-150mg/wk for 4-5 weeks, then conduct an HCG protocol.

500ius for 21 days with an AI.

Then Clomid/Tamox the same as I suggested for GForce.

[G-Force]

Tore 120/120/100/60/60/60
Clomid 100/50/25/25/25/25 OR Tamox 20/20/20/20/20/20

.

is that 120 tore for week one and 2, then 100 for week 3 etc
or is it day one, day two etc?

also is it not worth using nolva and clomid together with the tore in your opinion?

[Vitruvian-Man]

is that 120 tore for week one and 2, then 100 for week 3 etc
or is it day one, day two etc?

^^ These are the daily and weekly values... (IE) week 1 & 2 = 120mg of tore each day.

also is it not worth using nolva and clomid together with the tore in your opinion?

No need to add clomid/nolva/tore. That's too many SERMS. Clomid and tamox are interchangeable. I would stick with clomid though (if you can handle the emotional sides.)

advice in bold bro.

[G-Force]

thanks
ive never noticed any emotional sides from clomid to be honest?

the arimidex ive got is from a pretty rubbish lab that tends to be underdosed
would i be able to run nolva along side it with the hcg in the 3 weeks before my pct starts
or i could run arimidex at 1mg eod rather than 0.5mg

[G-Force]

actually i just realised i will still have deca in my system for these three weeks so best not use the nolva eh

[Vitruvian-Man]

actually i just realised i will still have deca in my system for these three weeks so best not use the nolva eh

I would stick to A-dex instead of nolva.

This is because they accomplish two different tasks. A-dex will destroy ~85% of estrogen... whereas, nolva prevents estrogen from entering receptors in the breast tissue.

If you don't like the A.I. you've got now (arimidex ) then buy another bottle from a different lab.

IMO, there is NO point cheaping out, when you're trying to restore your HPTA (especially if your situation, where you abused AAS to the point where recovery may not be 100% possible...)

PM me if you have anymore issues.

-VM

[G-Force]

If you don't like the A.I. you've got now (arimidex ) then buy another bottle from a different lab.

IMO, there is NO point cheaping out,
-VM

nothing to do with money
this is just the only arimidex i can get hold of
am lookin out for some pro chem stuff though
hopefully my mate will come through

[Swifto]

You need to be using an AI with HCG IMHO. Aromaisn 10mg/EOD.

Then Tore as I suggested and as VM correctly confirmed, with Clomid IMHO. Clomid is the KING of SERMs for HPTA recovery.

Keep me posted on what happens here please.

[spencer c]

am very interested in this thread.. some great shit.. g-force please keep us updated on ur recovery in all aspects... maintaining, energy levels, libido, depression etc etc...

I am coming off close to a year long test cruise on and off soon (well when i get the funds to afford all the necessary products and such for recovery and PCT) no other compounds thank god and would liek to see how i could apply this to myself and what i can expect in the near future

[martialartsman]

very interesting read and to think im confused on my 12 week cycle. Good luck with it all G Force.

[meathead320]

Giving a bump here too. I'm one of the guys who "did somethin" for a TRT scrpit when I probably did not need it. Been on prefectly legal for 2 years at 200mg EW test-C. Man it was some good times however. Nothing like top of the range test all the time.

Anyhow, I'm kinda getting out of it now. Lots of other hobbies, wife and kid, house, mortgage and decent paying job. Zero social accolades for being thick, and my wife met me when I was about 40 pounds smaller, and she could care less for the extra size.

So here is my situation:

Age: 28

Weight: 215 about 15% bodyfat
Height: 5'8" (on a good day)

Anyway, I have come off once for 30 days a year ago, and ran clomid until I was able to store some sperm at a Cyrolab. Got 9 vails in case I am perma messed up.

I also ran a course of HCG that ended about 60 days ago of 500 iu every 3 days as I was thinking abotu comming off then. My source dried up for the HCG again, but I don't think I will need it again this soon. My testes are still decent sized from the last course.

I was thinking about comming off then, but pussed out.

I have Clomid, Letro, and Nolva on hand, and I think I will take another crack at it.

[meathead320]

^^^^ small fallow up on the above. I will be trying to score some decent HCG soon, and run that for 30-60 days at 500 iu. 2x EW.

In the meantime, since I got plenty of test-C on hand still, I should really cut some fat before I come off.

Losing fat is far easier on then off, and I have allowed myself to get too fat. I think PCT will be more effective to at under 10% bodyfat, vs. 15%.

So Diet time first. I go from one torture to another. Me =

[G-Force]

well i have finished my 3 week run of hcg while decreasing my test dose down to nil
i have now been on PCT for 9 days

doin ok - the lack of sex drive is really starting to kick in now

i am using clomid / tore as suggested above as well as tribulus and horny goat weed and ZMA

ive lost 3kg ish
but i havent trained in 6 weeks and i dunno how long i will be out for (back injury)
so i expect i will be shrinking down to 'normal' size soon

arms already gone from 19" to 18 1/2

just wish i could train
would make this pct a lot easier

right i am off to get some cialis :-)


PS good luck meathead let us know how u get on

[G-Force]

ok i have finished my 6 week pct 2 weeks ago
and just got my testosterone levels back and it is at 2.3

i was told by the endocrinologist that i should be over 9

i will be arranging an appointment with him next week

is 2.3 normal after a 6 week pct or am i not recovering properly?

is there anything i can be doin eg get back on the tore / nolva
or should i wait to see what the endocrinologist says?

[tboney]

ok i have finished my 6 week pct 2 weeks ago
and just got my testosterone levels back and it is at 2.3

i was told by the endocrinologist that i should be over 9

i will be arranging an appointment with him next week

is 2.3 normal after a 6 week pct or am i not recovering properly?

is there anything i can be doin eg get back on the tore / nolva
or should i wait to see what the endocrinologist says?

After a two year cycle It doesnt surprise me that you are not fully recovered. Sometimes it takes a while. Does your endo know about your aas usage?

[Swifto]

ok i have finished my 6 week pct 2 weeks ago
and just got my testosterone levels back and it is at 2.3

i was told by the endocrinologist that i should be over 9

i will be arranging an appointment with him next week

is 2.3 normal after a 6 week pct or am i not recovering properly?

is there anything i can be doin eg get back on the tore / nolva
or should i wait to see what the endocrinologist says?

If your total T is "2.3" nmol/l, thats low. It should be 10-20 (normal range). Over 20 is very good.

See what your Endo says...

If Tore and Tamox dont work, I'm not sure what will. I'd try Tore and Tamox for 8-10 weeks. Tore 120mg/ED for the first 3 weeks, followed by 100mg/ED for 3 weeks, followed by 60mg/ED for 4 weeks. Tamox 20mg/ED for 8-10 weeks. Thats your final hope IMHO. Tore and Tamox will both upregulate the pituitary to GnRH causing a greater LH pulse. If Tore/Tamox dont do it, your on HRT pal!

[G-Force]

After a two year cycle It doesnt surprise me that you are not fully recovered. Sometimes it takes a while. Does your endo know about your aas usage?

he does yeah i told him everything

i dont really wana do another PCT
think i will stick to tribulus and zma and just try and recover

i expect thats all he will say when i see him anyway
just be patient

[Swifto]

Get your GnRH, LH and FSH tested too.

[G-Force]

If your total T is "2.3" nmol/l, thats low. It should be 10-20 (normal range). Over 20 is very good.

See what your Endo says...

If Tore and Tamox dont work, I'm not sure what will. I'd try Tore and Tamox for 8-10 weeks. Tore 120mg/ED for the first 3 weeks, followed by 100mg/ED for 3 weeks, followed by 60mg/ED for 4 weeks. Tamox 20mg/ED for 8-10 weeks. Thats your final hope IMHO. Tore and Tamox will both upregulate the pituitary to GnRH causing a greater LH pulse. If Tore/Tamox dont do it, your on HRT pal!

ok i am back on the tore and nolva as of today
what about running some more HCG with it?

i got some advice from another board - here it is below:

"You do in fact need to run another PCT along with HCG.
I would at the very least run 10,000iu HCG, and something around 1500 to 1000iu.
Beings that you have some testicular function you wont need the super aggressive doses.
You may consider the first two shots EOD ! 1500, then 1000.
Something like this:
1500 X 2 EOD, then 1000 X 7 EOD, that will use all the 10,000iu HCG
Then back on the clomid for 30 days @ 100mg, then 20mg nolva for 45 days."

[G-Force]

also my kidneys are not fully functional
i have a GFR of 50 (should be over 60 at least apparently)

would any of these pct meds affect my kidneys?