Free Diet advice by Narkissos & Novastepp: Intro to Performance Nutrition 101

[somewhatjacked]

No you got it right - I am trying to lose bf first.

My question was more on the curiosity side. I am actually pretty happy with the results.

However, my theory behind coming up with those numbers was if I average above my TDEE I will gain weight but carb cycling will still burn fat in the process. I have been reading too much (good and bad) so not sure where I found this information.

I know for a fact if I eat 3500 cal everyday I will get big but I won't lose bf.

I am sticking to my plan 100% coz I want to learn how my body reacts to certain methods so it's easier to play around in the future - the way you do.

[somewhatjacked]

I think my post explained how I cycle carbs, but this is when I am trying to reduce my body fat.

Like I said, I do not train on high or low carb days and I purposely will have them on an off day.

I am sore 8 days a week. "Twice on Sunday".

Sooo it is possible to be sore 8 days a week. Iiiiiight I need to work harder now.
Lol

[novastepp]

However, my theory behind coming up with those numbers was if I average above my TDEE I will gain weight but carb cycling will still burn fat in the process. I have been reading too much (good and bad) so not sure where I found this information.

So recomposition dieting is what we're after here. I would suggest eating a tad above maintenance TDEE since you are training hard and doing cardio on off days. Let the diet and training do the work for you. Remember this will take months. Reevaluate when spring is about to begin. If you can make progress (including pullbacks, etc) during that time, you can reevaluate wether its time to do more cutting or bulking.

No matter what anyone says, you can reduce your body fat and make gains in size and strength...but it is very gradual and difficult work, but DOABLE!

The methods employed in this diet thread lend themselves directly toward your goals so stay the course, my friend.

[somewhatjacked]

So recomposition dieting is what we're after here. I would suggest eating a tad above maintenance TDEE since you are training hard and doing cardio on off days. Let the diet and training do the work for you. Remember this will take months. Reevaluate when spring is about to begin. If you can make progress (including pullbacks, etc) during that time, you can reevaluate wether its time to do more cutting or bulking.

No matter what anyone says, you can reduce your body fat and make gains in size and strength...but it is very gradual and difficult work, but DOABLE!

The methods employed in this diet thread lend themselves directly toward your goals so stay the course, my friend.

Alright. I will make my low carb day as my TDEE maintenence (3100) and go from there.

I am pretty light right now so I want to use to my advantage. I am planning to start calisthenics once a week. It will def burn a lot of calories so I can't go wrong with 3100 as my low day.

High carb day will be like 4000 cal (eventually) - that's a lot of food for one human being - lol

[novastepp]

Alright. I will make my low carb day as my TDEE maintenence (3100) and go from there.

I am pretty light right now so I want to use to my advantage. I am planning to start calisthenics once a week. It will def burn a lot of calories so I can't go wrong with 3100 as my low day.

High carb day will be like 4000 cal (eventually) - that's a lot of food for one human being - lol

Just keep working and let the training and diet do the rest. Don't explode your calories higher or you may start gaining fat. Take it slow and you will see improvements.

[RaginCajun]

Oh I meant to ask Nova but good to know. Your involvement around the forum while on food is amazing - hahahha

i love this place man!!!

reading this thread and having great people here to help/guide me over the years has made a huge improvement on my life. i just want to do the same for others and help people out.

i still have a lot to learn about my body and this place is chocked full of knowledge and experience!!!

[novastepp]

i love this place man!!!

reading this thread and having great people here to help/guide me over the years has made a huge improvement on my life. i just want to do the same for others and help people out.

i still have a lot to learn about my body and this place is chocked full of knowledge and experience!!!

Hands down the best place to find info. I wish I would have printed my favorite threads for the past 10 years. I have started compiling quotes and advice from various members and saved them in a file. I recommend everyone do this because even though the information may be found in a thread or a few threads, it takes a lot of time to go back and find the post that is most helpful to you.

[somewhatjacked]

Hands down the best place to find info. I wish I would have printed my favorite threads for the past 10 years. I have started compiling quotes and advice from various members and saved them in a file. I recommend everyone do this because even though the information may be found in a thread or a few threads, it takes a lot of time to go back and find the post that is most helpful to you.

Couldn't agree more.

I wish I started here earlier. I spent so much time and money buying and researching supplements. But the only thing I need is food.

Never too late.

[GirlyGymRat]

Couldn't agree more. I wish I started here earlier. I spent so much time and money buying and researching supplements. But the only thing I need is food. Never too late.

Amen!

[novastepp]

Here is a sample dietary approach I have assimilated, very simple, but it is explained.

Chicken breast 8 oz= 240cals, 8g fat, 0g carbs, 42g pro.
Sweet potato 5oz= 132cals, 0g fat, 30g carbs, 3.5g pro.

Meal total= 372cals, 8g fat, 30g carbs, 45.5g protein

((*7))= 2604cals, 56g fat, 210g carbs, 318g protein.

Point of this simplification is that it is calculated based on my LBM. I have nearly 200lbs of lean body mass, which translates into roughly 2,329 calories a day. Using an activity multiplier, I have respectfully ended with a daily calorie expenditure of about 2500-2600.

Granted some of my daily choices will change, but they change in regard to the same macro values. For instance, if I decided to have a half-cup of oats instead of the sweet potato, that would land me 150calories, 3g of fat, 27g of carbs, and 5g of protein. This keeps my macros nearly identical to those outlined in the example. Also, I may choose to have two cans of light tuna instead of chicken. The tuna will yield me 300calories, 3g of fat, 0g of carbs, and 50g of protein. Again, this keeps me right around those macros given in the example.

The above example also does not take into account my PWO offering. My PWO offering will generally take the place of one of the 7 meals, so differences are minimal. I generally have a PWO meal consisting of about 400 calories, of strictly protein and carbs; about 45g of protein and about 45g of carbs.

Now for those of you who want to follow in a similar pattern I am copying one of Nark’s previous posts about how to calculate your caloric needs based on your LBM.

The Katch-McArdle formula calculates BMR based on lean body weight.

BMR:
BMR (men and women) = 370 + (21.6 X lean mass in kg)

Then, using the BMR, TDEE is calculated using the activity multiplier:

Activity Multiplier:

Sedentary = BMR X 1.2 (little or no exercise, desk job)
Lightly active = BMR X 1.375 (light exercise/sports 1-3 days/wk)
Mod. active = BMR X 1.55 (moderate exercise/sports 3-5 days/wk)
Very active = BMR X 1.725 (hard exercise/sports 6-7 days/wk)
Extr. active = BMR X 1.9 (hard daily exercise/sports & physical job or 2X day training)

Also, this example does not include any subsequent carb cycling. In the even that fat loss slows, one may decide to lower their calories and move closer to a caloric deficit. However I myself find it more beneficial to manipulate my carbohydrate numbers. I will post another example diet showing how I prefer to cycle my carbs, and subsequently my daily caloric numbers. Keeping your body in a dynamic environment through dietary manipulation, cardio, and weight training is the best way to change your body composition for the good.

8 years ago, and this diet post is one of my best.

[novastepp]

To summarize:

Tubers v.s. grains... Tuber win.

Grains being (potentially) highly allergenic... (can) cause systemic responses akin to systemic inflammation. (fyi: bloating is a systemic response to a perceived allergen)

Chronic systemic inflammation leads to glucose intolerance (etc.)... which in turn leads to negative shifts in body composition.

-CNS

Bump this statement from Nark

[somewhatjacked]

8 years ago, and this diet post is one of my best.

I thought your approach was heavy carbs unless this approach is to cut?

[somewhatjacked]

Hey Nova, this week I removed the 2800 calorie day so I cycled high and medium carb days (3500 and 3100 calories).

I did gain some weight and I think look bigger too but I am not very sure about belly fat - I think fat went up too, maybe.

Do you suggest doing only high and medium days or should I increase high carb day to around 3700 calorie day?

Give or take

37-3800 calories - 450-500 gms carbs
34-3500 calories - 350-400 gms carbs
31-3200 calories - 200-250 gms carbs

I am going on a 3 day trip tomorrow so food intake will suck.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks in advance.

[novastepp]

I thought your approach was heavy carbs unless this approach is to cut?

It is. Did that post sound like it wasn't? All pro/carb, all day.

[novastepp]

Hey Nova, this week I removed the 2800 calorie day so I cycled high and medium carb days (3500 and 3100 calories).

I did gain some weight and I think look bigger too but I am not very sure about belly fat - I think fat went up too, maybe.

Do you suggest doing only high and medium days or should I increase high carb day to around 3700 calorie day?

Give or take

37-3800 calories - 450-500 gms carbs
34-3500 calories - 350-400 gms carbs
31-3200 calories - 200-250 gms carbs

I am going on a 3 day trip tomorrow so food intake will suck.

Please let me know your thoughts.

Thanks in advance.

I wouldn't cycle carbs unless I was trying to lose fat, and in that case I would cycle lower more often than higher. Higher is a refeed and they do not occur as often as low days. My previous posts demonstrated that I have 1 high day for every 4 low days. If you keep carbs higher more often you aren't cycling to lose fat, you're just cycling.

I think at this point, you haven't given your diet enough time to work. You need to pick an approach and stick with it for several weeks. In short, go for 8 weeks on a diet. A solid diet without carb cycling can lean you out very well in 8 weeks so you'll know if it is working.

[krugerr]

Hey guys, can you provide a little feedback on the following if you have time. Its something I threw together, its enough volume for me currently. My TDEE is approxmiately 3200Kcal.

[novastepp]

Hey guys, can you provide a little feedback on the following if you have time. Its something I threw together, its enough volume for me currently. My TDEE is approximately 3200Kcal.

Breakfast looks good. You have 55g of protein in that meal, 28g of carbs, and 12g of fat. In this meal, I like your protein consumption. Shoot for 55g in every single meal; just keep it constant. Carbs could be a bit higher, 35-40g and fat a tad lower. I would use skim milk to cut the fat. You could adds some greens, broccoli, or otherwise to slightly increase your carb intake as well as your fiber intake.

Snack is worthless. Its 3 hours after breakfast: have a meal. And as this thread promotes, go pro/carb. 50g of couscous and 250g of chicken thigh here would work fine. This will also help you eat your daily caloric amount.

Lunch is the same as above, no need to get more than the macros above.

Next snack, again, should be a meal. Eggs, chicken, turkey, whatever. 55g pro, 40g carbs

Dinner is fine, but I'd shoot closer to 1800 so you don't go 4 hours without a meal. You don't want to exceed 4 hours during waking hours, to keep protein synthesis alive.

Your last snack is great. Look at daily caloric needs and increase the amount as needed, but cottage cheese is a wonderful food before sleepy time

[krugerr]

Breakfast looks good. You have 55g of protein in that meal, 28g of carbs, and 12g of fat. In this meal, I like your protein consumption. Shoot for 55g in every single meal; just keep it constant. Carbs could be a bit higher, 35-40g and fat a tad lower. I would use skim milk to cut the fat. You could adds some greens, broccoli, or otherwise to slightly increase your carb intake as well as your fiber intake.

Snack is worthless. Its 3 hours after breakfast: have a meal. And as this thread promotes, go pro/carb. 50g of couscous and 250g of chicken thigh here would work fine. This will also help you eat your daily caloric amount.

Lunch is the same as above, no need to get more than the macros above.

Next snack, again, should be a meal. Eggs, chicken, turkey, whatever. 55g pro, 40g carbs

Dinner is fine, but I'd shoot closer to 1800 so you don't go 4 hours without a meal. You don't want to exceed 4 hours during waking hours, to keep protein synthesis alive.

Your last snack is great. Look at daily caloric needs and increase the amount as needed, but cottage cheese is a wonderful food before sleepy time

Much thanks buddy, great pointers. Sometimes you get a bit too close to something, and cant pull back enough to see the whole picture.

The snacks are because where I work I dont get allowances to eat a meal, the "snacks" are thins I can get away with at my desk. I'll take it on board, throw some green veggies in, and try to duplicate Lunch as another 'snack', and egg for the afternoon 'snack'.

-Krugerr

[novastepp]

Much thanks buddy, great pointers. Sometimes you get a bit too close to something, and cant pull back enough to see the whole picture.

The snacks are because where I work I dont get allowances to eat a meal, the "snacks" are thins I can get away with at my desk. I'll take it on board, throw some green veggies in, and try to duplicate Lunch as another 'snack', and egg for the afternoon 'snack'.

-Krugerr

Its my bad for not mentioning that if that's the best you can do...then do it. Food is better than no food. I suppose my response should have said "ideally".

You know what to do, just get as close as you can and be sure to hit your macros. So, if that is an issue, you indeed may need to make your before work and after work meals a bit larger. Also, protein shakes can help greatly in hitting the pro/carb needs by using protein and skim milk.

[krugerr]

Its my bad for not mentioning that if that's the best you can do...then do it. Food is better than no food. I suppose my response should have said "ideally".

You know what to do, just get as close as you can and be sure to hit your macros. So, if that is an issue, you indeed may need to make your before work and after work meals a bit larger. Also, protein shakes can help greatly in hitting the pro/carb needs by using protein and skim milk.

Thank you mate for the response. Just nice to get a bit of confirmation that Im not way off the mark! Ive been around here long enough to have an idea, but I'm along way from being a guru!

[somewhatjacked]

Thanks for being patient Nova. I know you have gone over this subject a few times.


Yes I agree a solid diet can help me get lean in 8 weaks but that would lead to muscle loss as well?

This is my progress so far. My own version of carb cycling or simply eating clean food is working to some extent. However, i want to get big without getting fat.


Do you suggest getting big first then cut? Or drop bf first then clean bulk?

I don't know how I will bulk without getting fat. I am eating very clean right now but I can still notice bf increase when I eat more.

[somewhatjacked]

I just read your carb cycle approach again.

Low (4 days) - 25% less carbs

Normal(1-2 day?) - maintenance carb intake

High (only after 4 low days) - 150% carb intake.

I obviously want abs but I don't want to get skinner either.

Do you suggest trying this approach?

[novastepp]

Thanks for being patient Nova. I know you have gone over this subject a few times.


Yes I agree a solid diet can help me get lean in 8 weaks but that would lead to muscle loss as well?

This is my progress so far. My own version of carb cycling or simply eating clean food is working to some extent. However, i want to get big without getting fat.


Do you suggest getting big first then cut? Or drop bf first then clean bulk?

I don't know how I will bulk without getting fat. I am eating very clean right now but I can still notice bf increase when I eat more.

The process is slow, and I realize that 8 weeks is faster than you may have thought. But based on your pics if you were eating at a strict calorie mark for 2 months, you would dry out and lose body fat for sure. I don't think your strength would suffer at all, and muscle loss would be minimized. One time during a cut of mine, I could tell a very noticeable difference after only 4 weeks, and it all had to do with strict dieting. Not a super low calorie intake, but strictly following my diet and incorporating some cardio in. To drop to 8% or lower, you will want to take more time, and go even slower to avoid muscle loss, but to dry out and cut some fat, if you are diligent, your body will have no choice but to shrink the fat.

[novastepp]

I just read your carb cycle approach again.

Low (4 days) - 25% less carbs

Normal(1-2 day?) - maintenance carb intake

High (only after 4 low days) - 150% carb intake.

I obviously want abs but I don't want to get skinner either.

Do you suggest trying this approach?

I suggest you find a diet around maintenance and stick to it. Every meal. Every day. Reduce your bf a little, and then slowly add cals into the mix and see if you start gaining in your lifts. AT that point, continue through teh middle of this year and see where you are.

Pick a diet and stick it. The rest will follow with hard work and rest.

[somewhatjacked]

I suggest you find a diet around maintenance and stick to it. Every meal. Every day. Reduce your bf a little, and then slowly add cals into the mix and see if you start gaining in your lifts. AT that point, continue through teh middle of this year and see where you are.

Pick a diet and stick it. The rest will follow with hard work and rest.

Thanks Nova. I read your response the day you replied but didn't get around writing back.

I did adjust my food already - now I just need to he patient.

Will update you in a few weeks.

[novastepp]

Thanks Nova. I read your response the day you replied but didn't get around writing back. I did adjust my food already - now I just need to he patient. Will update you in a few weeks.

Looking forward to it!!

[krugerr]

Hey Nova, as per our email discussions, here is a proposed diet. Using your advice on macro split and meal split, each meal is approximately equal in macros.

Whats the thoughts on sodium, and seasonings? I tend to use Fajita seasoning, or spices.




**edit** ignore the meal timings in the titles.

[bloodchoke]

nOva --

I’m cutting. My goal is ~2200-2400 cals/day.

6a
1 cup oats (prepared, 1 serving)
1 scoop, On - Gold Standard whey

10a
0.5 cup nonfat Greek yogurt
1 cup nonfat cottage cheese
0.5 cup fruit

Noon
8-10 oz chicken (no skin, no bone)
1-2 cups broccoli
Half a 3” red potato

2:30p
(repeat 10a meal)

5:30p (PWO)
2 cups skim milk
1 scoop whey

8p
8 oz tilapia
2-3 cups sautéed kale

Midnight-ish
bedside casein shake (32g)

I’m walking my dogs for 45-60 minutes, 4-5x/week and will begin doing it fasted since it’s no longer 13 degrees F in the morning (it’s now a toasty 27 degrees!). For weights, I’m cycling 5-3-1 programming all year, every other day with every fifth week off. No gear.

Is that too much cottage cheese (sodium)? The meals that will vary are Noon and 8p, but with the same structure as what is shown.

Suggestions? Tweaks? Insults? High praise?

Thanks!

[novastepp]

Hey Nova, as per our email discussions, here is a proposed diet. Using your advice on macro split and meal split, each meal is approximately equal in macros.

Whats the thoughts on sodium, and seasonings? I tend to use Fajita seasoning, or spices.




**edit** ignore the meal timings in the titles.

Goodness gracious, I forgot you were posting this here!

To be honest, I do not see any issues with your diet; meaning I think it will work great. Honestly, if I had to include some feedback I would ask why you are consuming a protein shake in your last meal. It would be beneficial to eat whole protein sources there.

What I may advise also is to keep track of your fat loss and be prepared to maybe reduce cals or carbs as fat loss progresses. You can bring those questions back here if you would like to. I would say, for now, this diet is solid and should show great results if followed.

[novastepp]

nOva --

I’m cutting. My goal is ~2200-2400 cals/day.

6a
1 cup oats (prepared, 1 serving)
1 scoop, On - Gold Standard whey

10a
0.5 cup nonfat Greek yogurt
1 cup nonfat cottage cheese
0.5 cup fruit

Noon
8-10 oz chicken (no skin, no bone)
1-2 cups broccoli
Half a 3” red potato

2:30p
(repeat 10a meal)

5:30p (PWO)
2 cups skim milk
1 scoop whey

8p
8 oz tilapia
2-3 cups sautéed kale

Midnight-ish
bedside casein shake (32g)

I’m walking my dogs for 45-60 minutes, 4-5x/week and will begin doing it fasted since it’s no longer 13 degrees F in the morning (it’s now a toasty 27 degrees!). For weights, I’m cycling 5-3-1 programming all year, every other day with every fifth week off. No gear.

Is that too much cottage cheese (sodium)? The meals that will vary are Noon and 8p, but with the same structure as what is shown.

Suggestions? Tweaks? Insults? High praise?

Thanks!

Suggestions:
Eat meal 2 at 9:00am, optimally.
Eat 2 hours after PWO
Instead of a bedside shake and waking up to drink it, just eat before bed.

Tweaks:
You do not need to reduce your cottage cheese intake, I think it is just fine.
If you had an allergy or sensitivity to dairy you could consider replacing.

Insults:
You should calculate macros and smooth them across all meals.
Do not cut too many cals at first, let the diet set in, and let the fat burning take a nice slow course

High praise:
You have very effective food choices and the diet is very clean.
Walking dogs is a fun form of cardio.

[bloodchoke]

Roger that! High-five, chief. I certainly appreciate it!

[krugerr]

Goodness gracious, I forgot you were posting this here!

To be honest, I do not see any issues with your diet; meaning I think it will work great. Honestly, if I had to include some feedback I would ask why you are consuming a protein shake in your last meal. It would be beneficial to eat whole protein sources there.

What I may advise also is to keep track of your fat loss and be prepared to maybe reduce cals or carbs as fat loss progresses. You can bring those questions back here if you would like to. I would say, for now, this diet is solid and should show great results if followed.

Thank you very much my friend. I just needed that confirmation, a sense check on it really!
Two reasons for the shake, firstly I like shakes. Secondly a 5th meal of chicken would be beyond my limits. I cant justify steak in my budget right now.

I'll bring the carbs down as it plateaus. Thanks for the help my friend.

[novastepp]

Thank you very much my friend. I just needed that confirmation, a sense check on it really!
Two reasons for the shake, firstly I like shakes. Secondly a 5th meal of chicken would be beyond my limits. I cant justify steak in my budget right now.

I'll bring the carbs down as it plateaus. Thanks for the help my friend.

I understand, and I'm with you. Some days...its a shake for breakfast.

[krugerr]

I understand, and I'm with you. Some days...its a shake for breakfast.

Everyday is shake and oats day for breakfast. I just couldn't stomach a full meal first thing. I'd bring it back up in 15 mins.

Thanks again for our initial email conversations on balancing Macros across the meals, and food choices, I hadn't done that before. After that it wasn't so bad. I used to put three main meals in. The fill the remaining "meals" with whatever macros would fit.


This is much easier to calculate! And prep.

Sent from my iPhone using App

[novastepp]

So, I am going to start reducing my bodyfat some. I can still see some abs and the outline of my rectus, but around my lower midsection, back, and chest...I am holding more flab than I am comfortable with.

To begin, I will be adding cardio either in the mornings on lifting days or in the evenings on non lifting days; 30 mins fasted in the morning, or 30 mins after 2-3 hours of eating in the evening. Until it warms up outside, this will be on the treadmill, incline of 10 @ ~3mph.

My diet will stay the same for now, at about 3600cals a day. If I do not see a change in a week or 2, I will consider upping the duration of my cardio or restricting my cals slightly.

[novastepp]

Diet has been dialed in and a little cardio does me wonders. I'm proud that I know my body and can make subtle changes easily.

I literally follow the prescribed advice from this thread and when I really dial it in. It works like a charm. In fact I'm seeing changes, but not on the scale. The best kind!

[krugerr]

Diet has been dialed in and a little cardio does me wonders. I'm proud that I know my body and can make subtle changes easily.

I literally follow the prescribed advice from this thread and when I really dial it in. It works like a charm. In fact I'm seeing changes, but not on the scale. The best kind!

Excellent buddy, thats the sort of news you wanna be hearing! Got progress pics?

Im feeling great after taking your advice on mine. I think its really made a difference! Hard to tell where I am at really with weight/fat due to also starting TRT, I was at ~284lbs and im now ~288lbs. Likely to be due to training again, plus the TRT combination. I feel slimmer on the waist, and feel like I have lost 1-2% BF or so. Im going by sight though.

[MikeyMoo]

I'm hoping the adage "no question is a stupid question" applies here but I was wondering what amount of daily calories and macros would be most effective in me losing BF.

I'm 34, 5'11" and around 240 lbs.

I lift 5 days a week with cardio at weekends and twice PWO during the week. Most session are no more than 90mins between 12 - 2pm.

Low natural t as a result of chemo.

Example of a normal days food:

2 x weetabix for breakfast; either fruit/ nuts and a shake mid morning; wholemeal sandwich for lunch; mid afternoon shake; sweet potato, chicken and veg for dinner.

Thanks,
M

[Macros]

Nova,

I'm 30 yo 170 lbs approx 15% bf. I've been training hard for 8 years but can't get to 10% bf without losing a significant amount of muscle. I calculated my BMR and TDEE using the KM method at 1800 and 2350. I want to see definition in my abs but I don't want to cut and drop down below 160 which I typically do every year around summer and I'm tired of this bulk/cut thing I've been doing because I never actually reach my goals for the bulk or the cut. My goal is to eventually get to 180-185 lbs at 10% bf. Any suggestions? I currently rotate calories as follows: 2600 on heavy weight training days - Monday and Friday. 2300 on weight training and cardio days - Tuesday and Thursday. 2000 on cardio only day - Wednesday and 1800 on rest days - Saturday and Sunday. As far as macro breakdown my heavy days are P/C/F - 35/45/20. The weight and cardio days are 40/40/20 and the cardio only and rest days are 40/35/25. Thanks!

[novastepp]

Thanks for the comments, I do not have time to address them appropriately today, I will respond on Thursday.