Help with first cycle ever

[Mighty Mouse24]

Hey I'm 24, I'm 148lbs, '5 10" tall, I've been weight training for about 2 years 4-6 days a week. I'm considering trying a cycle of test, dbol, and deca but I really don't know anything about steroids. That cycle was recommended to me. I'm not trying to really become a pro bodybuilder just wanna gain bout 20 lbs of muscle. My diet consists of roughly 4000 calories a day but my metabolism just won't allow me to gain weight. Any cycle and pct recommendations?

[The Bear 79]

Welcome Mighty Mouse24. Despite ur 4000 calorie a day diet, the stats u provided indicate ur diet may b insufficient or u haven't been @ it long enuf. How long hav u been taking in 4000 cal? Wuts ur BF%? Dont fall in2 that "my metabolism just won't allow me to gain weight", BS, u CAN gain, & we can help bro.

[alexISthrowed]

Welcome Mighty Mouse24. Despite ur 4000 calorie a day diet, the stats u provided indicate ur diet may b insufficient or u haven't been @ it long enuf. How long hav u been taking in 4000 cal? Wuts ur BF%? Dont fall in2 that "my metabolism just won't allow me to gain weight", BS, u CAN gain, & we can help bro.

Agreed

Your diet, training, or both are way off. Post up your full diet with macros, and training split. You need to build much more of a base before you are ready to run any aas.

[gixxerboy1]

agreed

your diet, training, or both are way off. Post up your full diet with macros, and training split. You need to build much more of a base before you are ready to run any aas.

x2..

[The Situation]

To add to those above, that cycle should not be touched by a beginner in the first place. You need to read up on diet and training. You can easily put on 30lbs without aas no bs

[ajordana]

with those stats it seems youre overestimating your calories.. at 145 lbs 4000 calories should be packing mass on you

[Mighty Mouse24]

I'm sure you're all right, my diet is far from ideal I'm just to lazy to eat right. Its pretty repetitive 2 bowls of cinnamon toast crunch in the morning, a fast food meal at lunch, 3 peanut butter sandwiches on break at work (I work 2nd shift), before bed generally I eat a large can of chef boyardee spaghetti or a medium pizza. So like I said its less than ideal but I honestly do believe its bout 4000 calories. I say iv been working out for 2years but its been on and off so I'm sure that's somewhat held me back. My workout consists of 2 muscles a day with abs being the second muscle every time. Generally I do chest, biceps, triceps, shoulders, legs, and forearms, I do one of those with abs every workout. My workout isn't lacking iv got results its just the matter of sticking with it and I'm sure perfecting my diet would help. The steroid question is out of impatience, id love to pile on 20 lbs of mass in 6wks like anybody would. I was just hoping I could do a safe cycle and speed up the process.

[The Bear 79]

Wow bro!! That diet is horrible, theres good cals & bad cals, & the only good cals u listed is maybe the peanut butter. I promise if u dedicate urself 2 researching, designing & maintaining a proper diet, u will make some astonishing gains.......................no joke bro, u will c results within 30 days! And while ur @ it, redesign ur training routine too, u need 2 include back as well & cardio.

[rawdigginz26]

Seems like a terrible way to eat although I have been there bro. The members here a geniuses in all areas. You mat catch shit from some but the ones who are serious one here can do wonders. I use there advice all the time. I too want to rush into it, but I know its not worth it until I have diet and training to a science. Stick around brother and learn.

[jaab]

If you're not gaining weight with 4k calories, then bump them up to 4.5k. For the cycle, I'd put them around 5k actually.

[jaab]

Wow bro!! That diet is horrible, theres good cals & bad cals, & the only good cals u listed is maybe the peanut butter.

There aren't "clean" or "dirty" carbohydrates/calories. Your body reads numbers; it doesn't know that you're eating a pizza and decide to store it as fat because so. You can eat ice cream and pizza everyday and lose fat or gain muscle as long as you hit your macronutrients each day. You just need to eat plenty of fruits and vegetables to compensate to get enough of your micronutrients as well.

[10nispro]

There aren't "clean" or "dirty" carbohydrates/calories. Your body reads numbers; it doesn't know that you're eating a pizza and decide to store it as fat because so. You can eat ice cream and pizza everyday and lose fat or gain muscle as long as you hit your macronutrients each day. You just need to eat plenty of fruits and vegetables to compensate to get enough of your micronutrients as well.

I disagree with most of what you told him.

[alexISthrowed]

There aren't "clean" or "dirty" carbohydrates/calories. Your body reads numbers; it doesn't know that you're eating a pizza and decide to store it as fat because so. You can eat ice cream and pizza everyday and lose fat or gain muscle as long as you hit your macronutrients each day. You just need to eat plenty of fruits and vegetables to compensate to get enough of your micronutrients as well.

This is probably the most ignorant statement I have read this month. So my body cannot tell the difference between a simple carbohydrate and a low gi complex carbohydrate? Eating a simple carbohydrate will cause an insulin spike which will then store that fat that you have just consumed. This will also cause insulin resistance which is the opposite of what a bodybuilder would want, or anyone for that matter. I could go on all day. I think YOU need to go take a look at the diet section.

[jaab]

This is probably the most ignorant statement I have read this month. So my body cannot tell the difference between a simple carbohydrate and a low gi complex carbohydrate? Eating a simple carbohydrate will cause an insulin spike which will then store that fat that you have just consumed. This will also cause insulin resistance which is the opposite of what a bodybuilder would want, or anyone for that matter. I could go on all day. I think YOU need to go take a look at the diet section.

No, you're the idiot that obviously has no idea what he is talking about in terms of insulin spikes and the GI index. Let me guess, you have to haz casein protein right before bed or youll catabolizez the musclez rightz??! Seriously, learn some basic nutritional concepts before you spout off broscience to new members making it more complex to them.

[alexISthrowed]

No, you're the idiot that obviously has no idea what he is talking about in terms of insulin spikes and the GI index. Let me guess, you have to haz casein protein right before bed or youll catabolizez the musclez rightz??! Seriously, learn some basic nutritional concepts before you spout off broscience to new members making it more complex to them.

Bro science? How about common nutritional knowledge. YOU are a new member bud, and I think you should go do a little research before you decide to give out any advice.

[dooie]

There aren't "clean" or "dirty" carbohydrates/calories. Your body reads numbers; it doesn't know that you're eating a pizza and decide to store it as fat because so. You can eat ice cream and pizza everyday and lose fat or gain muscle as long as you hit your macronutrients each day. You just need to eat plenty of fruits and vegetables to compensate to get enough of your micronutrients as well.

You're an idiot.

[jaab]

You do realize where the GI index numbers were taken from right? People were taken into a fasted state and fed quantities of carbs of different foods, and then they had their blood glucose tested 2 hours later. This was a LONG, fasted state. Not only that, but you also do realize that once you add other foods such as a fat source to a "high GI" meal like pure sugar, then that will slow down the digestion down greatly, and the "supposed" spike in blood sugar isn't going to happen since the absortion is slowed down..and you can pretty much compare the rate at that point to the absorption rate of oatmeal. When it comes down to it, unless you're only eating these high GI carbs in a completely fasted state, the whole concept of the gly***ic response comparison argument is gone.

Also, most people have a healthy insulin response (response to carbohydrates.) People have an appropriate amount of response to insulin (not having issues with high blood sugar and low blood sugar). These are the same people that don't have to worry about the gly***ic index even while in a fasted state because their body will take care of the gly***ic response. Most people don't even understand what the "spike means." The obvious answer to that is a dramatic increase in insulin, but that doesn't really happen since your body is so efficient in keeping your blood sugar in a good level range. If you have high or low blood pressure consistently, then you will die. If you ate gummy bears and your blood sugar spikes - if that was realistic, then you would have people dying from eating gummy bears, which just doesn't happen obviously. Remember, your body is extremely efficient in keeping your blood sugar in that "tight range." Also, keep in mind consuming these carbohydrates in a completely fasted state is unrealistic anyways unless you actually wait 48 hours before having this high GI meal.

What I find amusing is bodybuilders or health oriented people that obsess over the gly***ic index. These are the people who lift multiple times per week which improves insulin sensitivity, improves blood glucose tolerance, and most aren't obese either. This is the group that is the LEAST likely that won't have any issues in this department! If you think you have a problem, then you can have your fasted blood glucose tested (how much blood sugar is in your system in a fully fasted state). I know it's mind baffling you to accept this rather than from what you hear from Flex Magazine, but these are just what science has shown.

[dooie]

Mighty mouse, try this for starters, I don't have time to write up a diet and training routine. But il give u some tips

Try to stick to whole foods(meat, fish, eggs, veggies, fruit, rice etc)
Have a protein source every meal(chicken, fish, meat, protein powder)
Try eat 5-6 meals a day, these may need to be a little smaller than ur use to, but space them apart by every 2 to 3 hours
Eat 3-5 serves of veggies a day!
That's a start for ur diet

Training
I didn't look at your routine but try a 3day split first
Mon: Chest, shoulders, triceps
Tues: Rest
Wed: back, bis and abs
Thurs: rest
Fri: legs, calves and forearms

Do 3 exercises per big muscle, u may have to do more for legs
Do 2 ex for his and 2 for tris. I'd do 3 for abs!

There are many splits, but u will change it soon. But I would go to the diet and workout section and post up there ppl will critique it for you! Good luck

[jaab]

Bro science? How about common nutritional knowledge. YOU are a new member bud, and I think you should go do a little research before you decide to give out any advice.

You obviously have no idea what you are talking about. New members must = someone is dumb? Lol que? I get my information from scientific literature whereas you just dig up whatever you hear from Jay Cutler because it must be correct, right? He's so hyuugeee. Seriously though, read up on the GI and you'll find out why it's so insignificant.

[jaab]

Mighty mouse, try this for starters, I don't have time to write up a diet and training routine. But il give u some tips

Try to stick to whole foods(meat, fish, eggs, veggies, fruit, rice etc)
Have a protein source every meal(chicken, fish, meat, protein powder)
Try eat 5-6 meals a day, these may need to be a little smaller than ur use to, but space them apart by every 2 to 3 hours
Eat 3-5 serves of veggies a day!
That's a start for ur diet

You don't need to eat every 2-3 hours either..meal timing is irrelevant.

[alexISthrowed]

You do realize where the GI index numbers were taken from right? People were taken into a fasted state and fed quantities of carbs of different foods, and then they had their blood glucose tested 2 hours later. This was a LONG, fasted state. Not only that, but you also do realize that once you add other foods such as a fat source to a "high GI" meal like pure sugar, then that will slow down the digestion down greatly, and the "supposed" spike in blood sugar isn't going to happen since the absortion is slowed down..and you can pretty much compare the rate at that point to the absorption rate of oatmeal. When it comes down to it, unless you're only eating these high GI carbs in a completely fasted state, the whole concept of the gly***ic response comparison argument is gone.

Also, most people have a healthy insulin response (response to carbohydrates.) People have an appropriate amount of response to insulin (not having issues with high blood sugar and low blood sugar). These are the same people that don't have to worry about the gly***ic index even while in a fasted state because their body will take care of the gly***ic response. Most people don't even understand what the "spike means." The obvious answer to that is a dramatic increase in insulin, but that doesn't really happen since your body is so efficient in keeping your blood sugar in a good level range. If you have high or low blood pressure consistently, then you will die. If you ate gummy bears and your blood sugar spikes - if that was realistic, then you would have people dying from eating gummy bears, which just doesn't happen obviously. Remember, your body is extremely efficient in keeping your blood sugar in that "tight range." Also, keep in mind consuming these carbohydrates in a completely fasted state is unrealistic anyways unless you actually wait 48 hours before having this high GI meal.

What I find amusing is bodybuilders or health oriented people that obsess over the gly***ic index. These are the people who lift multiple times per week which improves insulin sensitivity, improves blood glucose tolerance, and most aren't obese either. This is the group that is the LEAST likely that won't have any issues in this department! If you think you have a problem, then you can have your fasted blood glucose tested (how much blood sugar is in your system in a fully fasted state). I know it's mind baffling you to accept this rather than from what you hear from Flex Magazine, but these are just what science has shown.

I read muscular development so your logic is flawed.

[dooie]

You don't need to eat every 2-3 hours either..meal timing is irrelevant.

Show me your scientific evidence for anything you stated in this thread! Post the article links!
OP don't listen to this loser,

No One that looks half decent has ever gotten there by eating pizza and ice-cream!

[10nispro]

You don't need to eat every 2-3 hours either..meal timing is irrelevant.

are you saying eating every 3 hours is insignificant cause of its supposed relation with the GI index? Not arguing just asking

[jaab]

I read muscular development so your logic is flawed.

Ah, well that's completely different then ;-)

Seriously though, do your own research. I used to be what they call a "bro" too; it's really nice to be able to go back to enjoying foods you loved on a daily basis but just in moderation. You obviously don't want to eat a whole tub of ice cream or anything, but you could fit in a serving along with some other foods you enjoy.

[jimmyinkedup]

You don't need to eat every 2-3 hours either..meal timing is irrelevant.

Well well if the alan aragon parrot isnt back.
While i agree with alot of the principles you state.- there are a couple things that get you immediately discredited. One - you are an extremely immature when you do it (and insulting which is against the rules) and
Two : Your assenine rhetoric which is overcompoensating to prove points neglects the basic premise of general health and proper nutrition.
You are no trailblazer - stop acting as if you are. The fact is , in all honesty , i forgot more than you parrot or pretend to know. I would support my points citing credible references and studies - not retarded rhetoric and "eat ice cream, pizza , and pop tarts." The fact is those foods are not heathy , nutitionally prudent choices and using such extreme examples makes you look foolish. Its overcompensation.

Clean up you act here - if you dont this road ends where the last one did- i promise you.

[jaab]

Show me your scientific evidence for anything you stated in this thread! Post the article links!
OP don't listen to this loser,

No One that looks half decent has ever gotten there by eating pizza and ice-cream!

Sure, here's one you can look at: http://journals.cambridge.org/action...07114597000093

There are several more on pubmed you can look at as well. Just type in meal timing pubmed into Google and some will pop up.

You're also putting things way out of perspective taking things to the extreme. Fitting good foods into your diet doesn't mean eating a gallon of ice cream and 4 pop tarts everyday. You still have to hit your macronutrients, get your protein from solid sources, and also make sure you're getting in your vitamins/minerals.

are you saying eating every 3 hours is insignificant cause of its supposed relation with the GI index? Not arguing just asking

It's cool. I'm saying meal timing is irrelevant in terms of body composition; however, I do think that different people can time their meals to be most beneficial to their training. For example, some people train their best in the morning without any food before training whereas others like to have a ton of food a couple of hours beforehand. It doesn't matter whether you have 3 meals per day or 12 meals per day, the end result will be the same if your macronutrients are the same at the end of the day. Overall 24 hour energy balance is what matters here.

[jaab]

Well well if the alan aragon parrot isnt back.
While i agree with alot of the principles you state.- there are a couple things that get you immediately discredited. One - you are an extremely immature when you do it (and insulting which is against the rules) and
Two : Your assenine rhetoric which is overcompoensating to prove points neglects the basic premise of general health and proper nutrition.
You are no trailblazer - stop acting as if you are. The fact is , in all honesty , i forgot more than you parrot or pretend to know. I would support my points citing credible references and studies - not retarded rhetoric and "eat ice cream, pizza , and pop tarts." The fact is those foods are not heathy , nutitionally prudent choices and using such extreme examples makes you look foolish. Its overcompensation.

Clean up you act here - if you dont this road ends where the last one did- i promise you.

I'd rather follow intelligent people like Alan and Lyle than get my information from Flex Magazine. I've hardly thrown an insult except when I was being insulted first, which I agree was immature on my part...doesn't make it right so I apologize for that. However, it's amusing you went ahead and insulted me, but I'll let that pass

One thing you can't disregard are basic nutritional concepts. Healthy individuals have no problems with their blood sugar when consuming sugar in their diet. The last time I got checked it was marked as excellent, and I eat stuff I enjoy everday. I did cite sources as you will see above. I just hate to see people being brainwashed by broscience that's just not true, and I wish I would have known this a long time ago. By the way, I'm not "slamming" others in that thread. Like I said before, I was a "bro" before before actually doing my own research. The funniest myth is the whole "you can't eat carbs after 6 pm or you'll get fat."

[jimmyinkedup]

I'd rather follow intelligent people like Alan and Lyle than get my information from Flex Magazine. I've hardly thrown an insult except when I was being insulted first, which I agree was immature on my part...doesn't make it right so I apologize for that. However, it's amusing you went ahead and insulted me, but I'll let that pass

One thing you can't disregard are basic nutritional concepts. Healthy individuals have no problems with their blood sugar when consuming sugar in their diet. The last time I got checked it was marked as excellent, and I eat stuff I enjoy everday. I did cite sources as you will see above. I just hate to see people being brainwashed by broscience that's just not true, and I wish I would have known this a long time ago.

I am well versed and follow aragon, mcdonald, hale and many many others. I have much respect for them.
You have posted in 2 threads - you have slung insults in 2 threads. I have made myself very clear. You were already banned and shouldnt even be here - tread lightly and with respect for our members and this board or as stated - you time here will end the same way it did before.
You sound like a nutritional zealot - search our nutrition resource section - you will see many mature debates and conversations between gbrice and myself on these very topics. The diff is the examples were presented intelligently , maturely, with refs and without insults. Again stop acting as if u are a trailblazer - you arent. Stop insulting our members. Stop saying stupid things like icream pop tarts and pizza are good staple foods. There are more micronutrients than vitamins and minerals. They are nutrtionally poor choices and poor for general health purposes. In your overzealous mission to educate ( even some that can educate you) your extreme examples that ignore these fundamental nutitional principles (in any lifestyle - not just this one) do NOT bolster your case or credibility.




t

[The Bear 79]

There aren't "clean" or "dirty" carbohydrates/calories. Your body reads numbers; it doesn't know that you're eating a pizza and decide to store it as fat because so. You can eat ice cream and pizza everyday and lose fat or gain muscle as long as you hit your macronutrients each day. You just need to eat plenty of fruits and vegetables to compensate to get enough of your micronutrients as well.

Oh great........u again, I cant remember ur previous screen name that u used b4 u got banned the 1st, but I defiantly remember ur useless, inexperienced, unknowledgable babbling & rambling. BTW, if u eat rite, theres no need 2 "compensate" 4 anything. I cant wait 2 c ur pair shaped, diabetic, pot bellied, flabby body in 10 yrs or so. Keep doin wut ur doin, we will use u as an example.

[jaab]

I am well versed and follow aragon, mcdonald, hale and many many others. I have much respect for them.
You have posted in 2 threads - you have slung insults in 2 threads. I have made myself very clear. You were already banned and shouldnt even be here - tread lightly and with respect for our members and this board or as stated - you time here will end the same way it did before.
You sound like a nutritional zealot - search our nutrition resource section - you will see many mature debates and conversations between gbrice and myself on these very topics. The diff is the examples were presented intelligently , maturely, with refs and without insults. Again stop acting as if u are a trailblazer - you arent. Stop insulting our members. Stop saying stupid things like icream pop tarts and pizza are good staple foods. There are more micronutrients than vitamins and minerals. They are nutrtionally poor choices and poor for general health purposes. In your overzealous mission to educate ( even some that can educate you) your extreme examples that ignore these fundamental nutitional principles (in any lifestyle - not just this one) do NOT bolster your case or credibility.




t

I've posted in two threads and slung insults? I think I told someone that their diet seemed boring in one thread, which is an insult? In this thread, I called someone an idiot after I was called ignorant, which I said above I was wrong for and didn't make it right. Not like it makes you right for throwing insults either

I'm not sure where you're getting that I was here before starting trouble. I never posted here until I wanted to learn more about AAs, and I just started posting yesterday in threads to help people on nutritional topics since that is my strongest point and I've seen a ton of broscience posted in this forum (wayyy more than the popular bodybuilding forum that I won't link in case it's against forum rules). I think I can almost attribute that to the fact that people have a hard time growing naturally because they are told they have to stick to their boring tuperware of brown rice, chicken, and broccoli spaced out evenly every 2-3 hours throughout the day.

It's ridiculous. It's BS - I'm sorry. I actually missed out on a good social life in a good 2 year span because I was staying in to make sure I got my meals in and staying "anabolic." Since then, throwing meal timing out the window and only eating around 4 big meals per day eating whatever I wish as long as I hit my macronutrients and micronutrient numbers, I have been getting the same gains as before and feeling better than before about myself. I'd just like to see less people being brainwashed into thinking you have to eat these "plain jane" foods all day just to build muscle. You don't. And please, stop acting like I said pop tarts and pizza should be a staple. Name one place where I said they should be a staple in the diet - stop trying to make me look bad because you're obviously failing.

Oh great........u again, I cant remember ur previous screen name that u used b4 u got banned the 1st, but I defiantly remember ur useless, inexperienced, unknowledgable babbling & rambling. BTW, if u eat rite, theres no need 2 "compensate" 4 anything. I cant wait 2 c ur pair shaped, diabetic, pot bellied, flabby body in 10 yrs or so. Keep doin wut ur doin, we will use u as an example.

I have no idea what you are talking about, and you can feel free to get an admin to IP check me to verify that I'm not him. It's quite ironic that you're calling me an idiot when every post you make is in broken English.

[jaab]

By the way, for your training program, you should look into Layne Norton's PHAT program. That would be my main recommendation. You could just do a simple upper/lower split.

[gixxerboy1]

You do realize where the GI index numbers were taken from right? People were taken into a fasted state and fed quantities of carbs of different foods, and then they had their blood glucose tested 2 hours later. This was a LONG, fasted state. Not only that, but you also do realize that once you add other foods such as a fat source to a "high GI" meal like pure sugar, then that will slow down the digestion down greatly, and the "supposed" spike in blood sugar isn't going to happen since the absortion is slowed down..and you can pretty much compare the rate at that point to the absorption rate of oatmeal. When it comes down to it, unless you're only eating these high GI carbs in a completely fasted state, the whole concept of the gly***ic response comparison argument is gone.

Also, most people have a healthy insulin response (response to carbohydrates.) People have an appropriate amount of response to insulin (not having issues with high blood sugar and low blood sugar). These are the same people that don't have to worry about the gly***ic index even while in a fasted state because their body will take care of the gly***ic response. Most people don't even understand what the "spike means." The obvious answer to that is a dramatic increase in insulin, but that doesn't really happen since your body is so efficient in keeping your blood sugar in a good level range. If you have high or low blood pressure consistently, then you will die. If you ate gummy bears and your blood sugar spikes - if that was realistic, then you would have people dying from eating gummy bears, which just doesn't happen obviously. Remember, your body is extremely efficient in keeping your blood sugar in that "tight range." Also, keep in mind consuming these carbohydrates in a completely fasted state is unrealistic anyways unless you actually wait 48 hours before having this high GI meal.

What I find amusing is bodybuilders or health oriented people that obsess over the gly***ic index. These are the people who lift multiple times per week which improves insulin sensitivity, improves blood glucose tolerance, and most aren't obese either. This is the group that is the LEAST likely that won't have any issues in this department! If you think you have a problem, then you can have your fasted blood glucose tested (how much blood sugar is in your system in a fully fasted state). I know it's mind baffling you to accept this rather than from what you hear from Flex Magazine, but these are just what science has shown.

Well i can say you arent correct on alot of things. But you have been here before trying to push the same ideas.
But what do i know about insulin and gi i'm only a diabetic for 25 years and was a certified sports nutritionist.

[jimmyinkedup]

Throw some calorie dense foods in there like ice cream, pop tarts, etc.

Allow me to remind everyone of you and your multiple banned user id’s: http://forums.steroid.com/showthread...cookies/page4&

[The Bear 79]

I have no idea what you are talking about, and you can feel free to get an admin to IP check me to verify that I'm not him. It's quite ironic that you're calling me an idiot when every post you make is in broken English.

Wutever fat boy. Jimmy just exposed u AGAIN..............now get lost.

[dooie]

By the way, for your training program, you should look into Layne Norton's PHAT program. That would be my main recommendation. You could just do a simple upper/lower split.

I'd like to see some progress pics of you mate?

[The Bear 79]

I'd like to see some progress pics of you mate?

[acidking]

I agree with Jaab, there isn't clean or dirty, fast food or slow food, what there is is moderation.

OP, for a start, replace your "2 bowls of cinnamon toast crunch in the morning" with "200g of white oat meal with milk". You'll thank me later.

All this pizza and spaghetti is all pasta, just like bread, all sugars and carbs, it has no nutritional value to help your body recover from your workout. Spaghetti or pizza before bed? Think about it, why do you need all these carbs while you're going to bed? how will your body find this useful to recover with? You'd rather drink some casein protein or have some cottage cheese.

Just learn what should be eaten, when, and for what.

[The Bear 79]

I agree with Jaab, there isn't clean or dirty, fast food or slow food, what there is is moderation.

OP, for a start, replace your "2 bowls of cinnamon toast crunch in the morning" with "200g of white oat meal with milk". You'll thank me later.

All this pizza and spaghetti is all pasta, just like bread, all sugars and carbs, it has no nutritional value to help your body recover from your workout. Spaghetti or pizza before bed? Think about it, why do you need all these carbs while you're going to bed? how will your body find this useful to recover with? You'd rather drink some casein protein or have some cottage cheese.

Just learn what should be eaten, when, and for what.

1st of all, need 2 research complex & simple carbs, & then lets c wut u hav 2 say bout "fast & slow" foods, 2nd, ur post contradicts ur proclamation of agreement with jabb, if u agreed with his BS, u wouldn't b trying 2 help the OP eat healthier.

[DeadlyD]

<img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=119304"/><img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=119305"/><img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=119306"/><img src="http://forums.steroid.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=119307"/>

Lol, what gear did you cycle to get pecs like that bro???

[The Bear 79]

Lol, what gear did you cycle to get pecs like that bro???

That's not me.........its jabb.........those r the results of his eat wutever u want diet.