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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
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    3,153
    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow View Post
    Ron,
    After having done several competitions (last year & this year), my cholesterol level is whacked out (high total cholesterol, low HDL, high LDL) due to being on test, tren, winny, masteron, proviron, femara, clen, ephedrine, etc. for so long time...
    But my urine panels and blood panels are good (liver, kidney, hematocrite, etc.)

    Therefore this time, I am planning on just maintaining my leanness, my musclemass & bodyweight using 500-600mg Testosterone per week as the base..
    What do you think another safest compound (cholesterol wise) to accompany & magnify the test?
    Option :
    1. 50mg Proviron daily (350mg per week) + 500-600mg Testosterone per week.
    2. (200-300mg Masteron Prop or 300-400mg Masteron Enanthate per week) + 500-600mg Testosterone per week.
    3. 25mg Anavar per day + 500-600mg Testosterone per week.
    4. 25mg Winny per day + 500-600mg Testosterone per week.

    I don't wanna use another 19-Nor compound like deca, anadrol due to the bloat and wetness...

    FYI, my diet is always clean (low carb, high protein, moderate amount of fats from flaxseed, fish oil, almonds, extra virgin olive oil).
    I do 1-2 refeed days per week (600-800 grams of carbs per day)...

    Many Thanks, Ron...
    Go with test and mast unless you have prostate issues. You are making a wise move! The high cholesterol will eventually clog up your arteries.
    Last edited by Ronnie Rowland; 04-29-2013 at 09:12 PM.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    225
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie Rowland View Post
    Go with test and proviron. You are making a wise move! The high cholesterol will eventually clog up your arteries.
    Yeah Ron.. Right.. I do realize that High Cholesterol & LDL level isn't healthy at all and will eventually clog up my arteries...
    However, I do take many cycle support supps (NAC, Milk Thistle, Hawthorn Berry, Celery Seed, Red Yeast Rice, Policosanol, Garlic, Saw Palmetto, Nettle Root) + 10 grams of Fish Oil + Several grams of Flaxseed + Some Good Fats from Almonds, Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Peanut Butter etc.. But they don't seem to help at all while on test, tren , winny, masteron , proviron , femara, clen , ephedrine, etc...

    I do general bloodwork every 4-6 months...

    I am gonna do as you said and go with Test + Proviron during this break to maintain my muscle & bodyweight..

    BTW, What do you think about Masteron compared to Proviron regarding their effect on cholesterol & lipid panel?
    They are basically the similar drugs and have similar effects on our body, right?
    Since Masteron is injectable and Proviron is oral, Does Masteron have less impact on cholesterol & lipid panel than Proviron?

    If you think that Masteron is better way to go, then I would go with Test + Masteron..

    Many Thanks as always, Ron..
    Last edited by Yellow; 04-29-2013 at 07:08 AM. Reason: Added Info...

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,153
    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow View Post
    Yeah Ron.. Right.. I do realize that High Cholesterol & LDL level isn't healthy at all and will eventually clog up my arteries...
    However, I do take many cycle support supps (NAC, Milk Thistle, Hawthorn Berry, Celery Seed, Red Yeast Rice, Policosanol, Garlic, Saw Palmetto, Nettle Root) + 10 grams of Fish Oil + Several grams of Flaxseed + Some Good Fats from Almonds, Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Peanut Butter etc.. But they don't seem to help at all while on test, tren , winny, masteron , proviron , femara, clen , ephedrine, etc...Add D3 and B3.

    I do general bloodwork every 4-6 months...

    I am gonna do as you said and go with Test + Proviron during this break to maintain my muscle & bodyweight..I should have told you test and mast, not test and proviron, since you have high cholesterol. Injectables are easier on lipids than orals!

    BTW, What do you think about Masteron compared to Proviron regarding their effect on cholesterol & lipid panel? I think Masterone would have less impact on cholesterol levels since it's an injectable.
    They are basically the similar drugs and have similar effects on our body, right? Masteron is more anabolic than proviron but it also tends to cause more prostate issues (for example, dribbling post urination from a swollen prostate!Since Masteron is injectable and Proviron is oral, Does Masteron have less impact on cholesterol & lipid panel than Proviron? Yes!

    If you think that Masteron is better way to go, then I would go with Test + Masteron..Go with test and mast! IMO go with test and proviron if you have prostate issues.
    Many Thanks as always, Ron..

    "Proviron (oral 1-methyl-dihydrotestosterone) and Masteron (an injectable form of 2-methyl-dihydrotestosterne) are indeed structurally very similar. Both are DHT hormones with a minor modification (methylation) on each. This similarity, however, doesn’t carry over extremely closely when it comes to function. Both steroids are DHT derivatives, yes, and because of this there is no estrogen conversion possible with either drug. They lack a structural trait necessary for their conversion to estrogen. This characteristic may also allow both steroids to offer some level of anti-estrogenic activity, as the non-aromatizable steroid may compete with other aromatizable steroids (like your own endogenous testosterone) for binding to the aromatase enzyme. This should lower estrogen levels and heighten the ratio of relative androgenic to estrogenic activity in the body. As such, both steroids could be used to some extent for cutting or contest preparations. The main value in this regard is that both may help, instead of hinder, the visible retention of fat and subcutaneous water. With less water retained, muscle definition can increase provided body fat is low enough. But this is about where the functional similarities between the two agents end.

    The main difference between Proviron and Masteron is their relative level of anabolic activity in skeletal muscle. Both steroids are capable of attaching to and activating the androgen receptor in muscle tissue. As such, both are theoretically capable of supporting muscle growth. But there is one major problem with Proviron. Like the base steroid dihydrotestosterone, Proviron has a high affinity for the 3-alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3HSD) enzyme. Why is this important? It is important because 3HSD produces a weaker steroid by removing the highly important 3-keto group on the active steroid molecule. It this case it produces what are known as weak steroid “diols”. 3HSD is present in high amounts in muscle tissue, and represents a sort of blocking wall for the steroid to get through before it is able to find its corresponding receptor in the cytosol of the cell. Proviron and DHT will be actively looking for 3HSD if you will, and as a result very little will find the receptor before being converted to weakly active steroids. This is why people do not gain a lot of muscle mass while taking DHT or Proviron. The 1-methlation may result in improving the oral bioavailability of Proviron, hence the fact that it is an oral drug, but it doesn’t do much to protect it from 3HSD.

    Masteron contains a 2-methylated derivative of DHT. Unlike the 1-methylation of Proviron, this alteration doesn’t effectively protect the steroid during oral dosing. This is why we only see Masteron as an injectable medication. However, shifting the methyl group from the 1 to the 2 position on the steroid backbone very effectively prevents conversion by 3HSD. As a result, the steroid is well equipped to enter the cell and break through the defensive line of 3HSD enzymes. It will reach the cytosolic androgen receptor in high concentrations, and because of this may impart a measurable tissue-building effect. So the bottom line is that while both may help improve the look of hardness to the muscles during contest preparations, only Masteron is actually going to offer a strong effect in muscle tissue itself. This means the potential for much more muscle size and strength gains during building phases of training, and at the very least a greater level of muscle preservation during cutting phases of training (the latter due to anabolic action in muscle helping to counter the catabolic effects of calorie restriction). These two drugs illustrate well the fact that categorizing the actions of steroids based on the three derivative bases (testosterone, nandrolone, and dihydrotestosterone) is not a highly accurate practice. So the next time someone tells you “This is a DHT derivative… so”, you can tell them “So what? I want to know what THIS steroid does, not DHT!”
    – William Llewellyn, Author of Anabolics 9th Edition and Underground Anabolics
    "
    Last edited by Ronnie Rowland; 04-29-2013 at 09:09 PM.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    225
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie Rowland View Post
    Yeah Ron.. Right.. I do realize that High Cholesterol & LDL level isn't healthy at all and will eventually clog up my arteries...
    However, I do take many cycle support supps (NAC, Milk Thistle, Hawthorn Berry, Celery Seed, Red Yeast Rice, Policosanol, Garlic, Saw Palmetto, Nettle Root) + 10 grams of Fish Oil + Several grams of Flaxseed + Some Good Fats from Almonds, Extra Virgin Olive Oil, Peanut Butter etc.. But they don't seem to help at all while on test, tren , winny, masteron , proviron , femara, clen , ephedrine, etc...Add D3 and B3.

    I do general bloodwork every 4-6 months...

    I am gonna do as you said and go with Test + Proviron during this break to maintain my muscle & bodyweight..I should have told you test and mast, not test and proviron, since you have high cholesterol. Injectables are easier on lipids than orals!

    BTW, What do you think about Masteron compared to Proviron regarding their effect on cholesterol & lipid panel? I think Masterone would have less impact on cholesterol levels since it's an injectable.
    They are basically the similar drugs and have similar effects on our body, right? Masteron is more anabolic than proviron but it also tends to cause more prostate issues (for example, dribbling post urination from a swollen prostate! Since Masteron is injectable and Proviron is oral, Does Masteron have less impact on cholesterol & lipid panel than Proviron? Yes!

    If you think that Masteron is better way to go, then I would go with Test + Masteron..Go with test and mast! IMO go with test and proviron if you have prostate issues.
    Many Thanks as always, Ron..
    Quote Originally Posted by Ronnie Rowland View Post
    "Proviron (oral 1-methyl-dihydrotestosterone) and Masteron (an injectable form of 2-methyl-dihydrotestosterne) are indeed structurally very similar. Both are DHT hormones with a minor modification (methylation) on each. This similarity, however, doesn’t carry over extremely closely when it comes to function. Both steroids are DHT derivatives, yes, and because of this there is no estrogen conversion possible with either drug. They lack a structural trait necessary for their conversion to estrogen. This characteristic may also allow both steroids to offer some level of anti-estrogenic activity, as the non-aromatizable steroid may compete with other aromatizable steroids (like your own endogenous testosterone) for binding to the aromatase enzyme. This should lower estrogen levels and heighten the ratio of relative androgenic to estrogenic activity in the body. As such, both steroids could be used to some extent for cutting or contest preparations. The main value in this regard is that both may help, instead of hinder, the visible retention of fat and subcutaneous water. With less water retained, muscle definition can increase provided body fat is low enough. But this is about where the functional similarities between the two agents end.

    The main difference between Proviron and Masteron is their relative level of anabolic activity in skeletal muscle. Both steroids are capable of attaching to and activating the androgen receptor in muscle tissue. As such, both are theoretically capable of supporting muscle growth. But there is one major problem with Proviron. Like the base steroid dihydrotestosterone, Proviron has a high affinity for the 3-alpha hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase (3HSD) enzyme. Why is this important? It is important because 3HSD produces a weaker steroid by removing the highly important 3-keto group on the active steroid molecule. It this case it produces what are known as weak steroid “diols”. 3HSD is present in high amounts in muscle tissue, and represents a sort of blocking wall for the steroid to get through before it is able to find its corresponding receptor in the cytosol of the cell. Proviron and DHT will be actively looking for 3HSD if you will, and as a result very little will find the receptor before being converted to weakly active steroids. This is why people do not gain a lot of muscle mass while taking DHT or Proviron. The 1-methlation may result in improving the oral bioavailability of Proviron, hence the fact that it is an oral drug, but it doesn’t do much to protect it from 3HSD.

    Masteron contains a 2-methylated derivative of DHT. Unlike the 1-methylation of Proviron, this alteration doesn’t effectively protect the steroid during oral dosing. This is why we only see Masteron as an injectable medication. However, shifting the methyl group from the 1 to the 2 position on the steroid backbone very effectively prevents conversion by 3HSD. As a result, the steroid is well equipped to enter the cell and break through the defensive line of 3HSD enzymes. It will reach the cytosolic androgen receptor in high concentrations, and because of this may impart a measurable tissue-building effect. So the bottom line is that while both may help improve the look of hardness to the muscles during contest preparations, only Masteron is actually going to offer a strong effect in muscle tissue itself. This means the potential for much more muscle size and strength gains during building phases of training, and at the very least a greater level of muscle preservation during cutting phases of training (the latter due to anabolic action in muscle helping to counter the catabolic effects of calorie restriction). These two drugs illustrate well the fact that categorizing the actions of steroids based on the three derivative bases (testosterone, nandrolone, and dihydrotestosterone) is not a highly accurate practice. So the next time someone tells you “This is a DHT derivative… so”, you can tell them “So what? I want to know what THIS steroid does, not DHT!”
    – William Llewellyn, Author of Anabolics 9th Edition and Underground Anabolics
    "
    Many thanks for the helpful advice & very detail explanation, Ron..

    How much Vit D3 and B3 do I have to take? BTW I am already taking 1000IU D3 and 250mg B3 daily. Is it enough??

    What do you think about low-dose trenbolone i.e 200mg per week accompanied with 500mg of testosterone just to maintain strength, musclemass & bodyweight..
    Does it has significant impact on cholesterol & lipid panel?

    I have been reading on an article about Low Dose Trenbolone for Hormone Replacement Theraphy (used with testosterone), what's your thought on it?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Posts
    3,153
    Quote Originally Posted by Yellow View Post
    Many thanks for the helpful advice & very detail explanation, Ron..

    How much Vit D3 and B3 do I have to take? BTW I am already taking 1000IU D3 and 250mg B3 daily. Is it enough??

    What do you think about low-dose trenbolone i.e 200mg per week accompanied with 500mg of testosterone just to maintain strength, musclemass & bodyweight..
    Does it has significant impact on cholesterol & lipid panel?

    I have been reading on an article about Low Dose Trenbolone for Hormone Replacement Theraphy (used with testosterone), what's your thought on it?
    The amount of vitamins needed can vary from person to person. in general 1500-3000mgs of b3 and 2500-5000mgs of d3 daily.

    Some people do fine cholesterol wise using 500 mgs of test and 200 mgs of tren weekly over the long haul while other have problems. You will need to have blood work done while on cycle to get the facts.

    Low doses of tren for hrt is a possibility but it won't work for some. Even at low doses some will have side effects they will not want to live with. I still believe test for TRT is much safer. Tren is what's used to give cattle right before they are killed. Our body makes its own test so we know that's going to be much safer!

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