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[eatrainrest]

sure fire

[FireGuy]

Ok, maybe I am slow this morning but how does supersetting opposing muscle groups have any application to your statement?

[FireGuy]

The more I read your statement I think where we differ is I dont feel a superset is a "beyond failure" technique.

[eatrainrest]

Ok, maybe I am slow this morning but how does supersetting opposing muscle groups have any application to your statement?

well good afternoon from jersey! i dont think were on the same page, i actually love supersetting antagonistic muscle such as muscle and back for many reasons. my example would be not to do this...

preacher curls 8 times to your max
drop setting and doing another set of 8 to failure

*this would be the example of what i meant

[eatrainrest]

The more I read your statement I think where we differ is I dont feel a superset is a "beyond failure" technique.

ahha there we go i knew we were mixing up somewhere

[FireGuy]

Pre-contest I love supersetting (not drop setting) same muscle groups as well. DB presses supersetted with cable fly's (chest). Overhead DB Extensions supersetted with rope pressdowns (triceps). Even in this regard I would not consider this "beyond failure" training.

[eatrainrest]

[QUOTE=FireGuy1;4605819]Pre-contest I love supersetting

[xnotoriousx]

Hell, why not? Here's my work week

Everything is done on a 12-10-8/failure format

mon - Legs
squats
leg press
stiff deads or leg curls
leg extentions

Tu - Chest/tris (switch these up every 2 weeks)
Inc db press
flat db fly
flat bb press
pullovers

Dips
rope pull-downs
skull crushers

wed - Off

Thurs - Back/bis (deads and bent rows are staple, but the others get switched every 2 weeks)
Deads
Bent over bb rows
pull ups
1 arm db rows
wide-grip cable rows

Concentration curls (1 set only to failure then to negative failure)
Db curls
incline db curls
hammer curls


Fri - shoulders
Seated db press
standing bb press
front raise
side raise or cable cross

[xnotoriousx]

For the most part I do a smooth controlled negative motion with a slight pause then a strong positive. Once every 2-3 weeks i'll do a faster rep motion but I am very big on form and intensity

Most of the time i'm on 45-60 sec rest times, when doing deads or squats I do about 2 min rest times.

[xnotoriousx]

I have a few questions after you get done looking at my workout.

1 is it good to work out your most desired muscle the day after legs day? I've been told after leg day you get a test boost. Is this true?

2 Should you ever go for a 1 or 2 rep max on movements such as bench-press, squat, deadlift?

3 Should straps be used when working out back to get more weight?

[eatrainrest]

these are just some but for more effective i need set ranges

[eatrainrest]

abcds

[eatrainrest]

straps would be use to assist you in your grip when doing shrugs, etcc.

[xnotoriousx]

Ok, i've been doing chest/tris, back/bis, legs, shoulders 2on 1 off split for as long as I can remember. I see that you're not a fan of this split. Could you lay out a more ideal week split? Being that i've been running this split for about 4 months now, maybe it wouldn't be a bad idea to switch it up.

Also you asked how many sets on some of the exercises and my goals..i'm 25 6'3 195lbs My goals are to gain very lean mass. My diet is around 3000 cals right now and i'm very inactive other then workout/cardio (Laid-off atm) I always do 3 sets on everything 12-10-8orfailure on last. On big movements, I'll do a very light warm-up set.

[eatrainrest]

[snsns

[xnotoriousx]

ok i'll give a peak at what you have wrote up.

I have a progress thread for the last few months of my training, if you want to look over and give advice on any aspect, by all means, please do. Thanks for your contribution, take care.

http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?t=381408

[PittBoy]

First....thanks for offering help!!

I have been running a push pull 4 day split for quite a while but am looking for a change.

An example workout would be:

Mon-Shoulders.

Front raises 3-4 sets 10-12
Lateral raises 3-4 sets 10-12
upright row 3-4 sets 10-12
reverse pec deck 3-4 sets 10-12

Tuesday-Chest/Tris

Incline bench 3 sets 8-12
Flat bench 3 sets 8-12
Incline Flys 3 sets 8-12
Pec Deck 3 sets 8-12

Dips 4 sets of 15
push downs 3 sets of 8-12
may throw in a few sets of overhead extensions

end with 3 sets of pushups to failure

Weds-Off

Thursday-Legs

Squats 4 sets of 6-12
Leg Press 3 sets of 8-12
Leg Extensions 3 sets of 10-15
Leg curls 3 sets of 10-15
Standing calf raises 3 sets of 15-25(try to get 25)
Seated calf raises 3 sets of 15-20

Friday Back/Bis

Wide Grip pullups 4-5 sets to failure
Wide grip pull down 3 sets 8-12
Seated row 3 sets of 8-12
Dumbell Row 3 sets of 8-12

Olympic Bar curls 3 sets of 8-12
Gym Heros 3 sets of 8-12
Hammer curls 3 sets of 8-12

That would be a pretty good example of what I've been doing for quite a while. I change things up as far as excercises every couple of months.

Looking for something new. Overall I'm happy with my progress but as always my legs are lagging(genetically a weak point in the whole family) especially my calves.

Any suggestions are much appreciated.

[eatrainrest]

[hdhdhd

[PittBoy]

those are my suggestions i would refer to my intro to exercise thread and check out some different splits there. come back with a proposed split and work in the 4 rep max range with no assisted help using overload training principle. refer to the suggested sets i posted here, as well as my first post. follow up

Thanks man. I'll put something together and post either today or tomorrow.

Appreciate the time you're taking to help here.

[Awesome_Shiloh]

new to the extensiveness and complication of training. you told me in another thread i was overtraining, and i was reading this thread---and right about now everyone of you are gonna laugh at me, but i need to learn, i don't quite grasp this concept of overload training, and doing drop-sets. i was in highschool football when i last had anyone teaching me proper lifting techniques, but we were told and had 1 day a week where all our lifts were supersets, our other two lift days were broken in 2, 1 day legs and the other upper body, plus of course regular practice 5 days a week. and honestly it seemed the more lifts we did set wise and longer we stayed in the gym the more the coach was happy and we were always the one's who got more play time. 1/2 of us were also taking andro-stackers, and the coach knew, but there was no rule against it i highschool back then, anyway sorry about rambling, it's just i was taught you'd feel it if you are overtraining, but after reading this i'm worried about what kind of damage i've done to my muscles? or do you think my muscles could have adapted to this since it's how i've always trained? i'm the one that was doing about 20 sets per group, i know, thats bad

[Awesome_Shiloh]

nevermind i was thinking dropsets were something else, i do that with my push-ups, but the overload training, still foggy

[eatrainrest]

[}^}^

[Awesome_Shiloh]

i was just wondering if this is why i don't gain weight. i don't have a problem with ever plateauing on my lifts, they've always increasedevery couple of weeks, however my weight is another story. since highschool i've always been on a doc recommended diet of 5000 cal a day and my weight in grams of protein, but nothing happens. yes i get stronger but have never weighed more than 165 ( but that was while incarcerated and all i did was eat, exercise, and sleep ) anyway do you think my overtraining is inhibiting my gains in weight? should i not worry about gains in weight as long as i'm seeing gains in my lifts? i mean i can go in and do 8-10 reps with 85lb DB's on an incline press, and yes good form not slinging, if i make it to the gym i grab one of there provided spotters, lol. just don't pick there brain since this is probably their part-time job. will weight gains eventually come will i always be a mighty mouse?

[eatrainrest]

[djdj^

[Awesome_Shiloh]

what heading is that thread under?

[eatrainrest]

[fhdjdj

[PittBoy]

Ok....read your excercise 101 thread.

So you are recommending something like this?

Mon- Chest/Bis

Incline-3 sets of 4
Flat---3 sets of 4
Incline Fly-2 sets of 4

Olympic Curls 3 sets of 4
some form of iso-3 sets of 4

Tuesday Legs/Calves/Traps

Squat-4 sets of 4
Leg Press-3 sets of 4
Leg Extension-3 sets of 4
Leg Curl-----3 sets of 4
Standing Calf Raise--2 sets(should I stay in high reps for calves)
Seated Calf Raise----2 sets...same

Shrugs-3 sets of ? (4 on traps too)

Wed-Off

Thurs- Shoulders/Tris

Lateral Raises-3 sets of 4
Upright Row---3 sets of 4

Push Downs---4 sets of 4
Overhead extension-4sets of 4

Friday Back/Calves

My problem with doing back with a 4 rep max at my gym is I can do the whole stacks in the 10-12 rep range with good form.....so what do I do here?.....Should I stay away from cables and do only bent over rows, tbar rows etc in the 4 rep max? How about on pullups?...Do I start to go weighted for 4?

Calves....should I repeat the previous calve workout or do something different?

Is this setup something like you're talking about? I know less is better but shoulder/Tri day looks real light.

Thanks again for the input....I know I always have room for improvement.

[eatrainrest]

[[**++

[eatrainrest]

Sure

[PittBoy]

How's this?

Mon- Chest/Bis

Incline-3 sets of 4(last set 12)
Flat---3 sets of 4(last set 12)
Incline Fly-2 sets of 8-10


Olympic Curls 3 sets of 4(last set 12)
some form of iso-3 sets of 6-8


Tuesday Legs/Calves/Traps

Squat-4 sets of 4(last set 12)
Leg Press-3 sets of 4(last set 12)
Leg Extension-3 sets of 8
Leg Curl-----3 sets of 8
Straight Leg deads 3 sets of 6(last set 12)

Standing Calves--2 sets 8-12
Seated Calves----2 sets. 8-12



Shrugs-3 sets of 6-8


Wed-Off

Thurs- Shoulders/Tris

Lateral Raises-3 sets of 8
Upright Row---3 sets of 6-8


Push Downs---4 sets of 6-8
Overhead extension-4sets of 6-8

Friday Back/Calves

Wide Grip Pullups 4 sets max
Tbar Row 3 sets 4(last set 12)
DB Row 3 sets of 6-8

Standing Calves 2 sets of 8-12
Seated Calves 2 sets of 8-12


The back excercies I was talking about being able to do stacks on were pull downs and seated rows. Their cable machine doesn't have a lot of weight on their stacks.

[eatrainrest]

[abcdd

[PittBoy]

this looks good, letme know how much stronger you got just from changing up rep ranges!

Will do man. Thanks again. I'll run this for 8 weeks and let ya know.

[eatrainrest]

Chccc

[lunchman]

This is my training split

Monday: chest/triceps
Tuesday: back/biceps
Wednesday: off
Thursday: shoulders/abs
Friday: legs

Not includint warm up, 3 warm upsets - 4 on the bigger compound movements. rep range 8-12 for most. higher for abs. cardio after each weight session at least 20mins alternating on bike, crosstrainer, rower ( on back days ), treadmill.

[lunchman]

THIS ABOUT SUMS IT UP...
"the effect of intensity on the muscle tissue can be likened to breaking and repairing a pencil lead; by constantly training beyong failure, you are taking a hammer and shmashing the actin and myosin (pencil lead) amking it very difficult, if not impossible to repair.

do not train beyond failure or performing forced reps, as this may disallow the performance of the same number of reps set to set"

ok so what have we learned?? do not train beyond failure.. instead use the overload training principle. for example, if you are training for strength and size 4-6 rep range will maximize white twitch muscle fibers. by choosing a weight you can do 100% INTENSITY 4 good controlled reps, once you hit 6 reps of that weight advance the weight. never go beyond failure, regardless of what anyone says. the body was not meant to train beyond failure


white twitch mucsle fibers (type 2b), yes sprintres use alot of white twitch muscle fibers hence, short bursts. white twitch muscle fibers have very few capillaries and because of the absense of this nutrient rich blood supply, they cannot function for very long periods of times as opposed to red fast and red slow fibers.

white twitch are greatly connected with strength gains and are used in lower rep ranges. this has the greatest effect on the myofibril. the controlled damage and repair of the actin and myosin ist he key to optimizing myofibril growth.


-----tahts from another thread answering that question

hey just making sure i got it right, your saying dont go into muscle failure by doing forced reps with a trainer and stuff? instead use the over load training principle training in the 4-6rep range with good form, once u can complete 6 reps then u up the weight right?.... and this is good muscle growth? just curious cause this could be a great new way of training for me.. and can use it this arvo at the gym iam training back and bi's

[InsaneInTheMembrane]

Hey Broda,

This is my latest split; would like to see your feedback:


Mon: Chest + Abs

Bench Press / DB Bench Press 3 sets (6-8 reps set 1 ; 8-12 reps sets 2,3)
Incline DB / BB 3 sets (same rep structure as above)
DB/Pec Dec/Cable Flies 3 sets (all 8-12 rep range)

Lower Ab Exercise (leg raise, decline sit ups etc...) 3 sets (10-15 reps)
Ab Exercise (crunches of various sorts wk to wk) 3 sets (10-15 reps)

Tue: Back/Traps and Calves

Deadlifts (EOW) 3 sets (all 6-10 rep range) / Chin Ups (non deadlift week) 3 sets (8-10 rep range)
Lat Pull downs 3 sets (8-12 rep range)
Bent Over BB Rows / Reverse Grip BB Rows 3 sets (8-10 rep range)
DB Rows / Narrow Grip Cable Rows / T-Bar Rows 3 sets (set 1, 6-8 reps : sets 2 n 3, 8-12 reps)
BB Shrugs 3 sets (10-15 rep range)

Donkey Calf raises 3 sets (20-30 rep range)
Standing Calf raises 3 sets (15 - 29 rep range)

Wed: Biceps, Hamstrings and Abs

BB/DB Bicep Curls 3 sets (6-10 rep range)
Preachers / Cable Dbl Bicep Curls 3 sets (10-12 rep range)
DB/Rope Hammers 3 sets (8 - 12 rep range)

SLDLs 3 sets (on non-deadlift wks) (8-10 reps) / Seated Leg Curls 3 sets ( 8 - 12 reps)
Lying Leg Curls 3 sets (8-12 reps)

Oblique/Serratus exercises (many to choose from like side crunches etc..) 4 sets (10 - 15 reps)

Thu: Off

Fri: Shoulders and Triceps

Smith/DB/BB Milit. Presses 3 sets (set 1, 6-8 reps : set 2 n 3, 8 - 10 reps)
Machine/DB Lateral raises 3 sets (8-12 rep range)
Narrow Grip/Shoulder width/ Wide Grip Upright rows 3 sets (8-12 rep range)
Reverse Pec Decs 3 sets (12-15 reps)

Weighted Dips 2 sets (set 1, 6 reps: set 2, 8-12 reps)
Machine/DB Tricep Extensions 2 sets (8-10 reps)
Rope Pulldown 2 sets (8-12 reps)

Sat: Quad and Calves

Squats / Leg Presses / Hack Squats 4 sets (set 1 n 2, 6-8 reps: set 3 n 4 8-12 reps)
Leg Extensions 3 sets (8-12 reps)
Lunges 3 sets (8-12 reps per foot)

Seated Calf raises (heavy) 4 sets (6-10 reps)

Sun: Off

- all "/" denotes "or" since I change exercises week to week
- This is a 5-day split so I can focus more on the lagging bodyparts
- Lagging parts are: Hams, Quads (sweep), Calves, Abs, Rear Delts
- Strong parts: side/front delts, chest, back, bis
- Injury background: Chronic myofacial pain in the right forearm (the sliver of muscle running under the brachio-radialis) that gets aggravated with lat pulldowns and bicep movements in general

Thanx in advance for looking this over:
all advice appreciated

cheers

[eatrainrest]

[abcc

[eatrainrest]

[dbdbcf

[InsaneInTheMembrane]

^^^ hey bro; thank you so much for your feedback... much appreciate it!

-sorry abt the confusion! when I write "DB Rows / Narrow Grip Cable Rows / T-Bar Rows 3 sets" or "SLDLs 3 sets (on non-deadlift wks) (8-10 reps) / Seated Leg Curls 3 sets ( 8 - 12 reps)" I mean I choose ONE of those and do them for 3 sets ... Actually maybe it was better i just wrote "Rows and their variations"

- so far, total sets per bodypart are:

Chest 9 sets
Back 12 (excluding traps)
Bicep 9 (including hammers)
Shoulders 12
Triceps 6
Hams 6
Quads 10

- lookin' at it, you're right, 12 sets for delts and back may be a tad too excessive
- hope this helps clear things up

cheers mate,
Insane

[eatrainrest]

[cncnc