Training for strength or training for hypertrophy?

[Polska]

I've heard so many conflicting theories about what best stimulates muscle hypertrophy. A lot of guys say to lift heavy around the six rep range for size. It makes sense to me that the stronger you are the bigger your muscles should be. So lifting for size = lifting for strength?

Yet some people swear by lifting lighter weights in the 8-12 rep range with slow tempo controlled movements; saying that size will come on faster with this type of training.

I usually stay in the 6-8 rep range with heavy weights (for me). My tempo is fast but controlled and my form is good. Lifting in the 8-12 rep range with lighter weights and slower tempo seems safer, and if it works better for hypertrophy then its superior. Some advocate changing up between the two with mass/strength phases throughout the year.

What are your thoughts? What school of training do you adhere to?

[Flex Columbo]

i use to count reps when i started , i did it for a year and a half and didnt put much size on at all , then i started training with this dude i met at tafe and went to the gym , we didnt count , we just did until we couldnt anymore.

muscles dont count they respond to failure , and everyone has different bodies , and it depends on what works for you , in terms of hypertrophy , strength and endurance training never really interested me , iv studied it at tafe , and from what i learnt unless your training for a sport such as weight lifting or something that involves feats of muscular endurance like rowing , that sort of training isnt necessary. its kind of confusing because even though your training for strength you will stimulate hypertrophy and endurance ,and if you are training for hypertrophy , you are still going to increase your strength and endurance either that or you will simply plateau

im personally less concerned about all these training methods and more concerned about the basic principles

eating-training-resting

i trained for a year and a half and for quite some time i would go twice a day , i counted my reps and spent hours and hours in the gym following what i read in magazine articles based on other peoples results with there bodies.

now i dont count any reps , i squeeze the most out of every set and use supersets or the shredding method to get even more out . i spend no less than an hour and no more than an hour and a half in the gym , and every session i oblitterate my muscles , In my school of training there is no math

[kaptainkeezy04]

I remember watching a Jay Cutler DVD, and he did a set of incline chest presses, and immediately after finishing his set, he looks into the camera and says "you were counting, weren't you? I never count reps." As long as you are failing, and staying in the rep range that yields results for you, you are building muscle. My arms gain size when I fail in the 6-8 rep range, and my legs gain size when I fail in the 12-15 rep range. It is all about failing in the rep range that works for you.

[DSM4Life]

If you don't count reps/weight then how do you know when your progressing ?

[Flex Columbo]

If you don't count reps/weight then how do you know when your progressing ?

i pay attention to my body , even thow im not counting i know when iv done a million reps and im not even feeling a pump , thats when i increase the weight , i count weight thow.

I see it this way:
if im aiming to do 8 reps but when i get to 8 and i know i can still pull off more why should i stop because i decided before hand i am doing 8 reps that set.

by the next time im ready to do my next set im going to have to do 4 or 5 reps wasting energy/creatine etc before im back to the point of failure by then i might be hurting a bit more but iv reached 8 and so i stop. it just seems like time wasted.

until i reach the point inwhich i literally cannot continue the reps that is when i start counting, my partner gets behind me and i push out as many as i can with a weight lesser than the weight i was lifting.

plus every session is a progression , i put in my best everytime i go to the gym , the rest to me is irrelevant , i have a set amount of sets thow ,im not just wingin it when i walk in or anything , all i can say is it worked for me , everyone is different , it worked for me more then counting reps.

i do eccentric contractions on the last set of each exersice but instead of using a max weight i get a strong weight and have my partner push down on it whilst i resist it , pretty awsome fealing

[Ronnie Rowland]

i remember watching a jay cutler dvd, and he did a set of incline chest presses, and immediately after finishing his set, he looks into the camera and says "you were counting, weren't you? I never count reps." as long as you are failing, and staying in the rep range that yields results for you, you are building muscle. My arms gain size when i fail in the 6-8 rep range, and my legs gain size when i fail in the 12-15 rep range. It is all about failing in the rep range that works for you.

yes!

[Ronnie Rowland]

i use to count reps when i started , i did it for a year and a half and didnt put much size on at all , then i started training with this dude i met at tafe and went to the gym , we didnt count , we just did until we couldnt anymore.

muscles dont count they respond to failure , and everyone has different bodies , and it depends on what works for you , in terms of hypertrophy , strength and endurance training never really interested me , iv studied it at tafe , and from what i learnt unless your training for a sport such as weight lifting or something that involves feats of muscular endurance like rowing , that sort of training isnt necessary. its kind of confusing because even though your training for strength you will stimulate hypertrophy and endurance ,and if you are training for hypertrophy , you are still going to increase your strength and endurance either that or you will simply plateau

im personally less concerned about all these training methods and more concerned about the basic principles

eating-training-resting

i trained for a year and a half and for quite some time i would go twice a day , i counted my reps and spent hours and hours in the gym following what i read in magazine articles based on other peoples results with there bodies.

now i dont count any reps , i squeeze the most out of every set and use supersets or the shredding method to get even more out . i spend no less than an hour and no more than an hour and a half in the gym , and every session i oblitterate my muscles , In my school of training there is no math

YES, but strip sets, etc can be counter productive. Simply do more sets high quality straight sets for added pump and growth.

Also, while it can be silly to get caught up in how many reps/weight you are doing as a bodybuilder, you do need to count inorder to gauge progress.

I have found that too many try to lift too heavy (ego lifters) while some get in a comfort zone when they should be using more weight. It cuts both ways!

[eatrainrest]

IMO the best way for growth is to SWITCH IT UP. go 100 percent intensity using the overlaod training principle using the 4 rep max range to try and maximize white twitch muscle fibers for some period of time on compound movements and throw some 12 rep max in there to confuse the body and hit some red fast twitch fibers. the body will adapt to this so i do believe what jay cutler is saying in regards to who cares.. but i would take it a step further. you should stay within a certain rep range based on your goal but facts are facts... your body will eventually adapt to this kind of training and it will be time TO SWITCH UP THE REP RANGES TO CONFUSE THE BODY AND ALLOW FOR MORE GROWTH-WHICH IS KEY . so simply said, if im bulking and trying to put on as much size/strength as i can, yes i will throw in mostly 4 rep max range sets with a few 8 reps and 12 reps just to stimulate some red twitch. than when im cutting my range is usually in the 8-12 reps to maintain as much muscle as i possibly can. EITHER WAY, you WILL HAVE TO SWITCH THEM UP SOMETIME.

jay cutlers approach is great.. the only difference is i stay within a certain rep range based on science and rep ranges. personally for size i feel 6-10 to be the sweet spot for most. for strength i find 4 reps max to be the best

[eatrainrest]

i forgot to mention, if you want to grow ITS ALL ON YOUR DIET, NOT YOUR REP RANGES. I'm giving ronnies slingshot a blast after im done wtih my cutting diet to put on alot of friggin mass. i will keep a log posted and follow up with him because it sounds lieka great program, i make my own slight variations to it.

[Ronnie Rowland]

imo the best way for growth is to switch it up. Go 100 percent intensity using the overlaod training principle using the 4 rep max range to try and maximize white twitch muscle fibers for some period of time on compound movements and throw some 12 rep max in there to confuse the body and hit some red fast twitch fibers. The body will adapt to this so i do believe what jay cutler is saying in regards to who cares.. But i would take it a step further. You should stay within a certain rep range based on your goal but facts are facts... Your body will eventually adapt to this kind of training and it will be time to switch up the rep ranges to confuse the body and allow for more growth-which is key . So simply said, if im bulking and trying to put on as much size/strength as i can, yes i will throw in mostly 4 rep max range sets with a few 8 reps and 12 reps just to stimulate some red twitch. Than when im cutting my range is usually in the 8-12 reps to maintain as much muscle as i possibly can. Either way, you will have to switch them up sometime.

Jay cutlers approach is great.. The only difference is i stay within a certain rep range based on science and rep ranges. Personally for size i feel 6-10 to be the sweet spot for most. For strength i find 4 reps max to be the best

yes!

[Ronnie Rowland]

i forgot to mention, if you want to grow ITS ALL ON YOUR DIET, NOT YOUR REP RANGES. I'm giving ronnies slingshot a blast after im done wtih my cutting diet to put on alot of friggin mass. i will keep a log posted and follow up with him because it sounds lieka great program, i make my own slight variations to it.

YES AGAIN! Diet is often the neglected factor and the Slingshot Training System is as good as it gets!

[eatrainrest]

another great informative thread, going into my link database in my workout thread

[randym2690]

im studying at npti right now in orlando the top school in the program and we learn 6-12 for hypertrophy but also rest have a ton to do with it 30-90 seconds rest for optimal hormonal shifts anyless your hitting endurance any more strength i personally grow better at the 6-8 rep range while 10-12 is my buddys sweet spot

[spywizard]

1st hand experience with the 4-6 rep range and overload principle.. In 6 weeks i gained 2" on my quads, and 1/2" on my bicep...

lost 2" on waist...

I incorporated a heart rate monitor into the mix so that i would be able to know exactly when my blood pressure had recovered.. at full excretion/effort (I usually am able to hit that on rep 3-4 in the 1st set) then all of the rest are at a working weight for that lift.. Spike to 164 hr... recovery is at 125 hr... and whats great about this routine... you do not create lactic acid, and thus your recovery is faster..

3 sets per exercise

and with the legs, i'm about 200 lbs from my life time high limit so it's the diet..

The bicep, i have not done a real bi workout in years, it's just a side effect of working my back..

[spywizard]

im studying at npti right now in orlando the top school in the program and we learn 6-12 for hypertrophy but also rest have a ton to do with it 30-90 seconds rest for optimal hormonal shifts anyless your hitting endurance any more strength i personally grow better at the 6-8 rep range while 10-12 is my buddys sweet spot

I would suggest that your buddy is growing slow twitch muscle at that rep range rather than fast twitch, thus one would surmise that he is either slow twitch dominate, or he isn't working out with enough weight..

[eatrainrest]

I would suggest that your buddy is growing slow twitch muscle at that rep range rather than fast twitch, thus one would surmise that he is either slow twitch dominate, or he isn't working out with enough weight..

yep agreed. although i feel that 6-8 reps works best for size. 4 reps generally maximizes white twitch and 12 reps max generally maximized red fast twitch, as you already know SPY, lol. 4 reps max work wonders for strength, but somewhere between maximizing white twitch and red fast twitch..i do feel i get more size out of 6-8.

[spywizard]

I'd agree, it's an ego/goal thing for the weights, if i do the 4-6 i have more energy to complete the routine.. at 6-8 (which i used to train in) growth was slower.. I'm going to be static training in 4 more weeks, but that only lasts 4 weeks..

this past winter i did 20's... takes some time to get used to that..

[eatrainrest]

I'd agree, it's an ego/goal thing for the weights, if i do the 4-6 i have more energy to complete the routine.. at 6-8 (which i used to train in) growth was slower.. I'm going to be static training in 4 more weeks, but that only lasts 4 weeks..

this past winter i did 20's... takes some time to get used to that..

what will your static workout look like PM me once you write it up, im interested, also you did 20 reps as in the circuit they advise?