Arm size lacking

[nbaylot33]

I'm 5'11 218 lbs and around 11% bf (can see top four abs really well) i'm currently on my third cycle of test/deca /dbol : first was test only, second was test/dbol. I'm currently up 26 lbs after a good cut was 191 at 7-8% and am currently bulking with around 4-5k cals a day.

Now that I got that out of the way. My current arm size is just above 17 1/2 inches. During my current bulk I did DC training for about 3 months and noticed some good strength and a little bit more size in my main areas : chest, back, legs. My arms have been stuck in a rut for more than a year and a half at the current size. I use big movements for both bi's and tri's such as dips, cg bench, jm presses, sup rows, chin ups and so forth. I have all my lifts up such as 420 bench, 500x5 squats, 565 rack deads x 3. My wrist is large framed, my fingers don't touch in the finger test. I can't think of anything else. I know some will say that my weight won't allow me bigger arms, but i've been up to 240 before and not have 18" arms.

So, basically I'm asking for help with my arm size.

[Dont wanna be old]

I read about reverse grip bench about a month ago .
I usually do close grip bench for tri's but lately have been doing the reverse grip and feels like arms are thickening up .
It felt pretty queer at first but like it now .

I'm sure you already do the weighted dips . These seem to pump up tri's also .

I have nothing to say about bi's . I just go through the motion but nothing has ever gave me a exploding pump .

Good luck .

[nbaylot33]

Yeah I do the reverse grip and weighted dips ( up to 3 45's)

[HawaiianPride.]

Layout your arm routine in detail.

[nbaylot33]

Bi's
Supinated bb rows 2x10-12
Hammer curls 2x8
Or
Weighted chins 2x10
Cable straight curls w/ elbow restrictor 2x10

Tri's
Jm presses 2x10
OH db raise (two hand) 2x15
Or
Cg bench 2x10
Decline skullcrushers 2x15

[nbaylot33]

These follow back and chest

[BigBuck6]

As usual my answer for everything is T-BARS! Besides that one thing doesn't seem to add up. You said your bench is 420 but yet you only dip 3 plates? I am assuming that those are normal dips and not bench dips but still. I would suggest working on feel rather than how much you can lift with respect. I mean I have 19" arms @ 6'5" and I don't bench 420lbs.

[HawaiianPride.]

Bi's
Supinated bb rows 2x10-12
Hammer curls 2x8
Or
Weighted chins 2x10
Cable straight curls w/ elbow restrictor 2x10

Tri's
Jm presses 2x10
OH db raise (two hand) 2x15
Or
Cg bench 2x10
Decline skullcrushers 2x15

And how long have you been on this routine?

I've tried excluding arms completely, included them in conjunction with larger muscle groups, and of course dedicated a day solely to them and found no difference.

With that being said, perhaps it may be a different story with you. Experiment with different movements, higher/slower volume/intensity, focus more on contraction and negatives, utilize fst-7 or other modes, ect.

Furthermore, training is not always the culprit in plateaus. Have you considered your diet? Rest schedule up to par?

There are always variables people usually don't fully consider or even think about. Take heed to some of this stuff and apply them. From here, hopefully something will arise through trial and error.

[nbaylot33]

To the dips response - that's my secondary lift my heavier is jm presses or cg bench, I also do them 15+ times making sure I don't wiggle with weights

My diet is clean with around 3500 cals of food that includes brown rice, chicken , oats, eggs, veggies, cottage cheese etc... The rest is weight gainer shakes w/ creatine, glutamine, cottage cheese, peanut butter and milk added , I allow around 72 hrs of rest and I have been doing this workout for around 2 1/2 months

[nbaylot33]

On the lifts I usually go heavy on the first lift and do strict concentrations on second

[BigBuck6]

Have you tried not dedicating and time to arms and just working them secondary to chest and back? If not then maybe it's worth a shot, I have heard of people not gaining size because the muscle was being overworked specifically arms...

[nbaylot33]

Would it be too much of a stretch to maybe prioritize arms in my workout? Like on chest day , do tri's first and so on.... And I read on another forum to maybe pre pump the muscle with like 50 curls to get the blood pumping... Just throwing out suggestions... Drop sets, supersets.... I may need to just do a shock workout since they are use to very low volume

[green22]

dude I am in the exact same boat as you. I too am 5'11' 225 and have onle 17and half arms. Been 235 and they were the same too. My maxes are bout 50lbs less than you on everything though. over the last 6 months Ive been giving arms a day of the own. One day ill start with tri's, next time bi's. Ive seemed to gain a lil fullness but nothing major. Ive also started doing much higher reps, 15-20 and really try to feel the muscle. I just cannot bring myself to not train arms the way some folks suggest. I know that Ive have really no great advise, but just letting you know that there is someone else out there in your situation too.

[nbaylot33]

Yeah I really don't wanna work arms like some do inthe gym... But I am gonna try it, I started doing arms on Monday and when I do I'm pre exhausting them with low low weight and performing around 50 reps. This gets them pumping and prewotked for my reg exercises. I have also incorporated dropsets. This approach has made a much fuller pump at the end of the workout and I feel like this approach will make mine grow.

[Matt]

If thats you in your avy bro then your arms look in perfect proportion to the rest of your body and by no means do they look small....

[nbaylot33]

Well that is me during my cut... I was 196 there and now I'm 218 and only 1/2 inch bigger then the avatar (which got downto 17" during cut) my chest is much fuller and my back and shoulders are thicker.

[nath78]

basically if youve been doing the same thing for a while your body gets used to the stimulus,reverse grip bench is awsome for tris,try switching up you arm routine completly,try incline bench curls they really work all the bi's,if i were you,id pyramid them on concetration curls starting light then adding weight 15,13,10,8,6,4,4,6,8,10,13,15 then 2x6 incline bench curls do this a few times then drop set them ****ers!!if that dont work then i dont know ..good luck m8!

[HawaiianPride.]

I prefer Spider Curls over Incline Curls, I just feel the incline on such a small muscle group puts too much unnecessary strain on the bicep and you'll be more susceptible to injuries this way.

[dec11]

agree with 007, ur arms dont look bad to me. on another note, just two exercises @ 2x10reps? id consider that very little, why are you relying on back movements like dips for bi's? try direct work, i do well on :

single arm dbell curls 3x10 medium to heavy
hammer curls 3x10 medium
seated alternate dbell curls 3x15 light

now i do these with my back work so bi's get hit hard once pw. i was lagging here due to injury etc, but since i worked em in on back day theyve came on nicely

[Jahcuree]

Look awesome in your avy dude, did you also do that extreme stretching or DC stretching when u were doing DC training for your Bi's and Tri's?

[tbody66]

2 sets of biceps or triceps exercises are sufficient if they are after another bodypart workout, like back/biceps and chest/triceps. I like a mass builder followed by a shaper/stretcher and love supersets. I train chest/shoulders/triceps on mon, back/biceps on tue, legs on thu and chest/back-tris/bis on friday. My friday is superset day, chest/back and tris/bis and I do not do the exercises that I did for anybody part that I did when I hit them earlier. I've always had a difficult time, okay impossible time, feeling a pump in my biceps, but did this week by doing one arm hanging dumbell hammer curls three sets progressive weight, finished of with a dropset to failure, then went straight to the incline bench and did one arm dumbell preacher curls for an identical workout, three progressive weight sets followed by a dropset to failure. I hope this helps. You do look fine. I have big shoulders for my small ass body and my muscle head attaches so low that when I'm not flexed I lose like four inches off the size of my upper arm, it sucks.

[TED66]

im 5ft 5" 220 with 18" i found that goin heavy no more than 10 reps and 4-5sets with last set to fail and then a cheat and negatives work for me and really listen to your body your mind can mess with you as far as rest and recovery if you get out there and arent feelin it then take that extra day off its easy to overtrain . at least it is for me i fight with myself all the time recovery is golden. im all natural too no roids at all and i dont have freaky genetics.

[nbaylot33]

Yeah I did the deep stretches during dc. Since my last post I read up on fst-7 and have tried that. I like it but, just don't know what it will do as far as size goes. If any body can chime in on that style workout it would be cool. Also, about how long should I give a certain program before I should expect results with a smaller muscle.

[fattymcbutterpants]

I used to love doing weighted bench dips they would always get my arms so pumped do 2 or 3 sets then I would do 3 45's to failure, take a plate off then to failure, then have my spotter grab the next one and to failure again it gets a good burn going. The one time I did 4 45's on it it was hard to keep them all in place and it felt like it was killing my collarbone and shoulder. My triceps could do it because I did about 8 reps but my shoulders hurt bad afterwards so I only go up to 3 now

[UberSteroids]

Bi's
Supinated bb rows 2x10-12
Hammer curls 2x8
Or
Weighted chins 2x10
Cable straight curls w/ elbow restrictor 2x10

Tri's
Jm presses 2x10
OH db raise (two hand) 2x15
Or
Cg bench 2x10
Decline skullcrushers 2x15

Hey man,

It seems as the reps are a little high... are they performed to the failure? Like... you fail at 10 or 12 rep each time and each set?

To me what you wrote here is a warm up for your arms and not much of a work set.

[nbaylot33]

The arms routine is right after back or chest workout, thats why the sets aren't that many. I also train twice a week and reduce the number of sets so I don't overtrain. The first exercise is usually the heavier exercise with the second being the slower contracting exercise. Like I stated in another post I have started incorporating fst-7 training. I am gonna start doing a heavier compound movement first then an isolated movement then followed by the fst portion.

[UberSteroids]

I also train twice a week and reduce the number of sets so I don't overtrain.

So you train your biceps and triceps twice a week?

[nbaylot33]

I was wondering the other day also, during my bicep movements i noticed that my biceps kind of dip in right between the bottom part near the elbow and the top part inserting at the shoulder. Like, when I do preacher curls when im in full stretch the muscle doesn't look full but has a slope to it (bottom looks flat to the tendons and top looks normal). I don't know if this makes since or not but was wondering that this may be the cause of me not reaching 18". This maybe because my bicep doesn't ball it is rather flat on the bottom and top.

[nbaylot33]

[UberSteroids]

I think your arms look fine. So you said you train your biceps and triceps twice a week?

[nbaylot33]

So you train your biceps and triceps twice a week?

yep, not ever by themselves but only after back or chest

[UberSteroids]

yep, not ever by themselves but only after back or chest

Hmmm... do you think your intensity is high enough on these exercises? For instance I know that there is now way I can do any of my muscle groups twice a week. Then again looking at your workout and mine... I think that your intensity might not be high enough.

Can you post your weekly split and an example of biceps workout with sets, reps and weight included?

This way I will be able to give you some more specific suggestions that might work well.

[nbaylot33]

monday-chest/tris/front delts
tuesday-back (thickness)/bis/forearms
wednesday-legs
Thursday-chest/tri's/medial delts
friday-back(width)/bi's/forearms

chest -
flat bb bench (narrow grip) 3x10 315
decline machine - 3x8 450
Butterfly - 7x10 225(fst-7)
decline skullcrushers - 3x12 35's on each side (strict)
bent over rope pulldowns -7x10 100(fst-7)

back (thickness)(today's workout)
bent over bb rows - 3x10 235
lat pulldown, lean backs - 3x10 250
machine rows - 7x10 150 (fst-7)
standing ez curls - 3x8 45's on each side
standing db hammers - 3x8 60's
machine preacher curls - 7x10 45lb plate in middle section (fst-7)

[nbaylot33]

I'll do heavier tricep movements next workout and add one more

[UberSteroids]

Hmmm... I used to have similar split and tried many different splits that included each body part twice a week.

I was stuck in the same stats for a very long time, trying and testing new things. The one thing that I could say was a break through was the HIT training.

Here is the example of my routine:
Day1: Back/Biceps/Traps
Day2: OFF
Day3: Chest/Triceps/Shoulders
Day4: OFF
Day5: Legs/Calves
Day6: OFF
Day7: OFF

At first I didn't think that would work, because it was so many days before working out the same muscle group. But then I thought about all this time I have been struggling with all these routines.

The main idea of HIT was to train extremely hard and giving your muscles plenty of time to recover and grow. All this with a great nutrition of course.

Let me give you an example of what I meant by a high intensity workout.

Biceps:
Standing barbell curls (strict 3-1-3 timing)
65x8
85x8
115x7 to failure (after reaching failure put the bar down...wait about 7 seconds and try to lift the bar to failure again) put the bar down again... 7 seconds later lift it up and do forced reps with your spotter or cheat motion... just to get the bar moving.

Close grip Barbell curls
95x9 to failure

Sitting hammer curls
45s x8
55s x6
60s x5 failure.... +forced reps after the failure

Barbell curls are the most mass building exercise I can think of.
This biceps workout is performed with the back workout. The main idea is to get this crazy work set at the heaviest lift to failure and go beyond it.

Doing this style of workout... I was never able to train any muscle group twice a week.

I hope this gives you an idea.

Let me know if you have any questions.

[UberSteroids]

monday-chest/tris/front delts If your workout here was extreme, I don't see how you could do this again on Thursday... not even having a single day off in between. Same goes for all other days.
tuesday-back (thickness)/bis/forearms
wednesday-legs
Thursday-chest/tri's/medial delts
friday-back(width)/bi's/forearms

chest -
flat bb bench (narrow grip) 3x10 315 This here tells me that you instead of 3 sets of 10 with 315, you could do 1 set of 225x10, 1 set of 315x10 and then 1 heavier set say... 345 x Failure. So this set is not as intense as it could be since you knocked it out 3x10 with 315. Same applies to all other exercises
decline machine - 3x8 450 Same goes hereButterfly - 7x10 225(fst-7)
decline skullcrushers - 3x12 35's on each side (strict)
bent over rope pulldowns -7x10 100(fst-7)

back (thickness)(today's workout)
bent over bb rows - 3x10 235
lat pulldown, lean backs - 3x10 250
machine rows - 7x10 150 (fst-7)
standing ez curls - 3x8 45's on each side
standing db hammers - 3x8 60's
machine preacher curls - 7x10 45lb plate in middle section (fst-7)

Read in the BOLD.

It seems as all your sets are just too easy for you. You knock them out 3 sets of 10 to 12 reps with the same weight.

[nbaylot33]

when i did dc training I was doing the rest pauses and i really liked them. I'm only doing the 3x10 on bench because I was letting my tendons and such recover from using such heavy weight. But, I guess i'll start pyramiding things again. what would be a suitable rep range? 10,8,6 : 8,6,4... and does it depend on muscle size? Like for chest the rep range would be lower than arms or such.

[UberSteroids]

when i did dc training I was doing the rest pauses and i really liked them. I'm only doing the 3x10 on bench because I was letting my tendons and such recover from using such heavy weight. But, I guess i'll start pyramiding things again. what would be a suitable rep range? 10,8,6 : 8,6,4... and does it depend on muscle size? Like for chest the rep range would be lower than arms or such.

Oh I see.

You know as far as the rep range... I keep my first two sets at 8 as a warm up. Then working set even if you fail at 6... it's good because you will go rest pause and some forced resps. I believe that 4 is a bit too low. If I ever lift a weight and I failt at 4 reps... then I automatically lower the weight slightly. The only exercises I do not recommend doing rest pause and forced reps are Deadlifts, squats and heavy chest. For chest Forced spotted reps only. So, yeah... I say 6 reps on your own is like the minimum for your heaviest work set. Then after the heavy set is done... I like to throw one more set at about 80% of the weight, to do a bit more volume.

I definitely recommend Barbell curls standing without moving your elbows up... work biceps only and go heavy to failure on the last set with rest pause and forced. This exercise will grow you biceps. I also don't see a reason of doing more than two exercises for your biceps or triceps. After such heavy sets with high intensity the extra exercises will only be going towards overtraining and will require more time to recover. Don't be afraid to give your muscle time to build. I was able to get to 18.5" arms at 6'3 being all natural and training them only once a week. I don't think I will ever go back to 2x per week split, unless I will be able to recover so fast while on cycle, but I doubt it.

Good luck man.

[nbaylot33]

Well, normally I wouldn't. I am currently on cycle and take in around 10g of glutamin plus whatever is in the weight gainer shakes I drink. I also use creatine and BCAA's. So yes normally I could not be doing this stuff. I was doing the 3day DC training split before I started my cycle and Liked it but started recovering alot quicker once the cycle kicked in.

[nbaylot33]

Also should I drop the fst-7 and replace with restpauses