BIG ISSUE with this whole bulking and cutting phases, Please Help (pics attached)

[Blackmambar]

Hi again guys...

Just to let you know, I am in a really frustrated state right now so please bear with me...

I am currently going through my second attempt at cutting (losing body fat whilst trying to hold on to the muscle that I have).
My first cutting attempt was during end of 2011 which pretty much landed me in the exact same spot I am in now (feeling small) which is what motivated me to begin bulking again, at which point I felt I was getting to fat so I then decided to cut down again which has now brought me to the same feeling I had the first time around. I am worried that this will simply continue on an endless cycle for the rest of my life...!!

I have been attempting to cut down since July (I have been using the IF technique for this, just for the sake of trying something new, which I have been enjoying ).

The 'Cut 1' pic (attached) I think I have made decent progress, lost a bit of fat and kept most muscle, mind you I spent 6 whole months doing that cut, so calorie deficit was minimal, kind of... However I wanted to speed things up as this process (6 months) was taking way too dam long! So I increased my deficit.
Note: I never do any cardio work, just weight training.
Now, you can see in the 'Cut 2' pic (attached) which is 1 month and a bit (5 weeks?) since 'Cut 1', I simply feel smaller and weaker. It feels like I am losing muscle and fat at a even rate at the same time which is not making me look any more leaner/muscular looking, but rather simply just a smaller version of the 'Cut 1' pic... It's so tough to get the right results, not sure what to do...
I'd rather be big and bulky then small and leaner...

Diet: I was basically consuming roughly 2500 calories within a 6 hour eating window during the beginning of my cut (6 months July-Dec)
As I said above, fat loss was taking to long (at least I thought it was, maybe you can tell me based on pics?)
So I cut a meal off my diet reducing my calorie intake from 2500 to about 1850 calories within a 6 hour eating window (did this for 5 weeks? Dec-Jan, and still currently doing it)
I should probably note that in my bulking phase I was probably consuming easy about 4000-4500 Calories eating a meal every 3 hours.
I am 6 foot tall.

Any suggestions??

Start bulking again?

Thanks again in advance.

[Back In Black]

It's your choice but I would continue to cut. I suspect you are in the region of 20%bf. another 15-20lbs and I think you would think you look amazing.

You'll always feel weaker and smaller as you drop fat. Still lift the same as you would (in terms of sets and reps) but the end look is worth it.

I suspect your maintenance cals are in the region of 2700-2800. I think your 1800 are too low and may contribute to your feeling of weakness. I'd up them to 2200 an you'll still be cutting, especially if you start adding some cardio.

What macro split are you currently going with?

[Blackmambar]

It's your choice but I would continue to cut. I suspect you are in the region of 20%bf. another 15-20lbs and I think you would think you look amazing.

You'll always feel weaker and smaller as you drop fat. Still lift the same as you would (in terms of sets and reps) but the end look is worth it.

I suspect your maintenance cals are in the region of 2700-2800. I think your 1800 are too low and may contribute to your feeling of weakness. I'd up them to 2200 an you'll still be cutting, especially if you start adding some cardio.

What macro split are you currently going with?

Hey buddy, thanks for the advice...

My Diet is this:

4 slices of bread - 64g Carbs, 20g Protein
250-300grams chicken breast - 30g Protein

4 slices of bread - 64g Carbs, 20g Protein
3 x 100gram tuna cans - 51g Protein

Protein Shake 2 x Scoops - 40g Protein

3 x 100gram tuna cans - 51g Protein (Removed from Diet during Cut 2)
2 x slices of bread - 32g Carbs, 10g Protein (Removed from Diet during Cut 2)

So in total:
Cut 1 = 160g Carbs and 222g Protein (July to Dec - 6 Months)
Cut 2 = 128g Carbs and 161g Protein (Dec to Jan - 5 Weeks)

What do you think?

[Back In Black]

Sorry mate, I did my calcs wrong, your maintenance is probably 2500, so a cut at 2100cals is about right for you.

Bread is a poor choice to cut or even at all, especially if its your main source. Oats, potatoes, sweet pots, rice, quinoa are all better choices.

What are the fat macro's for cut 2?

Your protein is way too low on cut 2.

I would suggest you go with somewhere between a 50/30/20 and 60/20/20 (pro/carbs/fat) as the way forward.

[Blackmambar]

Err does it make a difference if I say its brown bread, with Soy and Linseed (so it's not just plain old white bread)?

4 slices of bread - 64g Carbs, 20g Protein, 8.8g Fat
250-300grams chicken breast - 30g Protein 4g Fat (or whatever roast chicken breast with skin has)

4 slices of bread - 64g Carbs, 20g Protein, Fat 8.8g
3 x 100gram tuna cans - 51g Protein, Fat 13.5g

Protein Shake 2 x Scoops - 40g Protein, Fat 4.6g

So in total:
Cut 2 = 128g Carbs, 161g Protein and 39.7 Fat (Dec to Jan - 5 Weeks)

Holy Crap, now that you mention it, that is quite a bit of fat no?

[Blackmambar]

And your most likely right about the protein, it may be a little to low... maybe I'll add an extra serving (300g) of chicken breast for roughly an extra 40g of protein to the Cut 2 diet?

[Back In Black]

Your fat is fine. Actually I'd up it to 45g. Up your protein to 260g and your carbs at 150g.

Whole wheat bread makes no difference to me. It s processed food. And we have difficulties digesting grains as a rule. The options I listed are far better choices. Bread is almost a treat for me nowadays.

Work out something new based on the above macros's and list it for me. And do some cardio!

[Back In Black]

And weigh your meat before you cook it and work your macro's from that. Even 300g uncooked chicken has way more than 30g protein in it!

[Blackmambar]

Your fat is fine. Actually I'd up it to 45g. Up your protein to 260g and your carbs at 150g.

Whole wheat bread makes no difference to me. It s processed food. And we have difficulties digesting grains as a rule. The options I listed are far better choices. Bread is almost a treat for me nowadays.

Work out something new based on the above macros's and list it for me. And do some cardio!

260 seems high for my body... why so high, I was thinking of raising it to maybe 200g??
150 carbs sounds good to me.
45g Fat sounds good to me.

And spewing about the bread, cause I love my bread! But I WILL find a substitute based on your advise, thanks for that, I always thought brown bread was a healthy choice.

...I can't make any promises about the cardio, I struggle enough to get to the gym 4-5 times a week to work out all the muscle groups, but if I can squeeze it in I will try.

Question in regard to your comment - "And weigh your meat before you cook it and work your macro's from that. Even 300g uncooked chicken has way more than 30g protein in it!"
Does this mean I should base macros of my chicken meal (for example) 300g pre-cooked, as opposed to measuring it as 200g after it shrinks from cooking??
So if I have cooked a kilo of chicken breast and dish it out daily - I should eat 250g instead of 3000g taking into account 50g probably shrunk from cooking (for example)?

[Back In Black]

Always weigh all your food uncooked and work the macros's from that. Your 1kg of raw chicken will yield, let's say, 220g protein. Just split that up how you need it after its cooked.

I've worked your macro split as a 50/30/20. That is why your protein like that. If we went 60/20/20 it would be higher. Our lbm's are pretty similar and I would never drop below 250g bulking or cutting. Carb manipulation is where this game is really at!

[energizer bunny]

Always weigh all your food uncooked and work the macros's from that. Your 1kg of raw chicken will yield, let's say, 220g protein. Just split that up how you need it after its cooked.

I've worked your macro split as a 50/30/20. That is why your protein like that. If we went 60/20/20 it would be higher. Our lbm's are pretty similar and I would never drop below 250g bulking or cutting. Carb manipulation is where this game is really at!

alright SteM, could you please elaborate on this please (in bold ^^)

[Back In Black]

alright SteM, could you please elaborate on this please (in bold ^^)

Some people are more sensible to carbs than others. Whilst they truly aren't the enemy some people jus can't seem to lose the same amount of fat, using the same calories, at 30% carbs against 20% carbs. Personally I get to be a grumpy old sod if I continually eat less than 30% carbs per day.

It's really about finding the best split for you. Experimentation is the key!

[Hueypfc]

Great advise! I have a app called- myfitnesspal that gives me all my macros and daily numbers and percentages to help me keep track. it also has a social net to help accountability, maybe something for a admin to look into for on here?