My new Program, advice please

**signals.lahoud** · 03-25-2014, 10:51 PM

so for the past few months ive really fell off, havnt been eating right or lifting at all really, ive lost alot of gains.
im getting back into the fitness lifestyle, goin to the gym 4 times a week, back on a bulking diet, and gonna train as hard as i can natural for a few months before i do my next cycle

in the past ive made some pretty good muscle gains but ive neglected strength training, ive always focused more on hypertrophy with slow negatives, higher reps ect cause it make me bigger faster, but i learned the hard way those gains are pretty much temporary when compared to strength gains, which were not so great with that style of training.

now im going to focus mostly on strength, as much as possible, but not neglecting hypertrophy either. kind of a vague statement i know, as the 2 are pretty much intertwined, but u know what im sayin.

heres what i came up with, 8 excercises split into 2 workouts, repeated twice per week.

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Day 1: Squats 5x5 Shoulder press 5x5 Deadlift 5x5 Face pulls 3x12
Day 2: Bench 5x5 Weighted pull up 5x5 Weighed dips 5x5 Bent over rows 5x5

Rep speed: lift as fast a possible, should not struggle unless it's the last set, negatives will be controlled but not slow, like 1-1.5 second negatives.
rest: 2 minutes for upper body moves, 3 minutes for squat and deadlift. one rest day after day 2

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So here are my main questions, but if you have any other suggestions aside from them dont hesitate.

1: the workout split? I could do a push pull setup, or a upper/lower setup, I set it up this way to do bench and shoulder press on different days, cause my shoulder press is weak after doing bench and vice versa, and with this exercise order i'm leaving time between squat and deadlift, time between bench and dips, and between chins and rows. im thinking this would let me do heavier weights since the same muscle group is never back to back but it lowers the intensity in a way.. do you think i did a good job or would you set this up differently? maybe its best to do squats and deadlifts on different days,

2: rest and rep speed, i know some people do 5 minutes rest for strength training, and fast negatives so they can do the most weight possible. but im thinking 2-3 mins rest and controlled (~1.5 secs) negatives will promote more hypertrophy but still leaves lots of room for strength gains. but honestly im not really sure how true this is, its just what ive been told. whats ur oppionion?

3: Row and pull up style, obviously thiers variations that hit different muscles, the dorian yates style of bent over rows where you stay 45` and elbows tucked in to focus lats, and the standard way of being horizontal and elbows out to hit upper back too. and ofcourse different grips of pull/chin ups that focus either upper back or lats, how would you suggest doing these two movements, considering that along with deadlifts they are my only movements for my back (i am doing face pulls too)

( 24 years old, 5 foot 10, 160 pounds, been lifting on and off for 3 years, started at 140 pounds body weight, current bench 185, squat 225, deadlift 275,) dont laugh :P
training has been very inconsistant, with streaks of intense nutrition and diet and gains, and streaks of shit diet and ****all training

Thanks in advance any help is greatly appreciated

**hellomycognomen** · 03-26-2014, 01:43 AM

Looks like a full body workout focusing on major muscles, so it would probably be better to switch the dead lifts with one of the other workouts to balance things out.

Rest is good, when I was doing 7/5/3 wave loading for strength I would rest 2min between sets and found that to be optimal, but you can play around with that to fit you best.

The controlled 1.5 negative is also ok, I read an article a while ago about "fast negatives" ~1sec where they had positive results.

For row I would keep Dorian Yates style and do seated cable rows with v-bar for upper back.

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I would ask you however that is your motivation for doing shoulder press and dips?

If your goal is to maximally stimulate your shoulders and triceps, there are better options that target specifically these muscles. ie deltoid raises for shoulders and tricep pushdows for triceps.

On overhead press:
The Case Against Overhead Presses | Doug Brignole - Exercise and Biomechanics

On dips:
Workout Tip #4: Don't do dips for pecs and triceps - YouTube

-Cheers

**signals.lahoud** · 03-26-2014, 02:26 PM

Originally Posted by hellomycognomen

Looks like a full body workout focusing on major muscles, so it would probably be better to switch the dead lifts with one of the other workouts to balance things out.

I would ask you however that is your motivation for doing shoulder press and dips?

If your goal is to maximally stimulate your shoulders and triceps, there are better options that target specifically these muscles. ie deltoid raises for shoulders and tricep pushdows for triceps.

-Cheers

dips i feel are heavy on the chest for me, they are kind of like a decline press in a way, and shoulder press i always beleived is the best shoulder move by far, i thought compound>isolation is widely accepted as true, especially in strengh training, but i could easily be wrong.

so your suggesting squats day 1 and deadlifts day 2? that could work, i thought doing them both the same day gives me more time to recover inbetween lower body workouts

**hellomycognomen** · 03-26-2014, 07:48 PM

Originally Posted by signals.lahoud

dips i feel are heavy on the chest for me, they are kind of like a decline press in a way, and shoulder press i always beleived is the best shoulder move by far, i thought compound>isolation is widely accepted as true, especially in strengh training, but i could easily be wrong.

so your suggesting squats day 1 and deadlifts day 2? that could work, i thought doing them both the same day gives me more time to recover inbetween lower body workouts

Seemed to me like your set up was close to full body that is why I suggested the change to round it out.

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Did you read the article on overhead press? Doug Brignole knows his stuff. It is considered a classic shoulder exercise so people don't question it, similar to upright rows.

But yea man based on your program I see you are doing basically all large compound movements, so if you want to do shoulder press go for it. But you should definitely read the article and analyze your risk.

IMO overhead press is a high risk, low reward exercise.

You can gain strength in many ways.

-Cheers

**signals.lahoud** · 03-27-2014, 05:51 PM

Thanks for the tip, this article is the first ive ever heard of not doing shoulder presses, he makes good points has a good argument for sure, but its just so hard to beleive that lateral raises are better for building shoulders than dumbell press,

it's like saying to cut out bench press and only do flys, but honestly im a newbie compared to most of u guys so i could be wrong

**signals.lahoud** · 03-27-2014, 06:01 PM

Thanks for the tip, this article is the first ive ever heard of not doing shoulder presses, he makes good points has a good argument for sure, but its just so hard to beleive that lateral raises are better for building shoulders than dumbell press,

it's like saying to cut out bench press and only do flys, but honestly im a newbie compared to most of u guys so i could be wrong