Improving your Bench......at any level

[hawk14dl]

My power grip is barely wider then my shoulders.

For size I move each hand out 3-4 fingers.

[Khazima]

If you can't clear the pins lifting off then you are def benching tooo wide

Depends on your goals and individual leverages. Wider grip = shorter ROM, for some it doesn't murder their shoulders, for me and many others it does.

[Buster Brown]

Depends on your goals and individual leverages. Wider grip = shorter ROM, for some it doesn't murder their shoulders, for me and many others it does.

What IS the goal if you can't get the bar off of the pins....either he has extremely short arms or he needs to reconsider his grip.

[Khazima]

What IS the goal if you can't get the bar off of the pins....either he has extremely short arms or he needs to reconsider his grip.

That's an obstacle, in which he can either lower the pins in a rack or get a lift off and get the most weight out of his bench (given his goal is to move the most weight he can).

[Buster Brown]

That's an obstacle, in which he can either lower the pins in a rack or get a lift off and get the most weight out of his bench (given his goal is to move the most weight he can).

That is overstating the obvious. You have done a great job of shitting on me and this thread from the start .....what gives?

[Khazima]

That is overstating the obvious. You have done a great job of shitting on me and this thread from the start .....what gives?

That's certainly not my intention i just disagree with the one size fits all statements like no one should use a wide grip and no one should do dips for their bench. I just have a different opinion that some others also share and instead of accepting it as another way to do things/other opinion you discount it as a viable option at all.

Sorry if my posts have come across as an attack.

[Buster Brown]

That's certainly not my intention i just disagree with the one size fits all statements like no one should use a wide grip and no one should do dips for their bench. I just have a different opinion that some others also share and instead of accepting it as another way to do things/other opinion you discount it as a viable option at all.

Sorry if my posts have come across as an attack.

After 28 years of lifting and the wear and tear/trials and turbulations of it all I am trying to help others avoid mistakes and put them on a path for success. Wide benching WILL damage your shoulders over time ....no doubt. Dips ARE a great exercise as I have done them for years. I do sets of 8 with 2 45 plates attached to my dip belt. The exercises I outline with more to follow are bench press specific. You don't have to agree but there isn't one thing in this thread that hasn't been tried and true that I am sure alot of guys mat not have been exposed.

[600@50]

The bench press definitely can wreck your shoulders. My 5 torn rotator cuffs and a torn labrum is proof for me. However the MAIN cause for shoulder issues lies not with the movement itself but how it's done. If you can maintain your form particular at the bottom of the BP you will minimize your shoulder issues. You must tuck your elbows at the bottom and not allow the elbows the flair out like a body builder would do. With lighter weights for hypertrophy you are not stressing the shoulder as much as for strength/power so you can do more of a body builder style BP. But when training for max effort you must tuck your elbows. Every time I hurt my shoulders it was due to a break down in form. I allowed my elbows to drift out at the bottom and over stressed the joint. Learning to bench press takes time......years in fact. You don't just lay down on a bench and lift the weight. I'm almost 54 and last year benched 585 at a body weight of 230. My shoulders feel the best now than they ever have. Most people just don't take the time to learn how to bench correctly and then blame the lift when actually they were doing it wrong all along.

[hawk14dl]

What he said ^

[Buster Brown]

The bench press definitely can wreck your shoulders. My 5 torn rotator cuffs and a torn labrum is proof for me. However the MAIN cause for shoulder issues lies not with the movement itself but how it's done. If you can maintain your form particular at the bottom of the BP you will minimize your shoulder issues. You must tuck your elbows at the bottom and not allow the elbows the flair out like a body builder would do. With lighter weights for hypertrophy you are not stressing the shoulder as much as for strength/power so you can do more of a body builder style BP. But when training for max effort you must tuck your elbows. Every time I hurt my shoulders it was due to a break down in form. I allowed my elbows to drift out at the bottom and over stressed the joint. Learning to bench press takes time......years in fact. You don't just lay down on a bench and lift the weight. I'm almost 54 and last year benched 585 at a body weight of 230. My shoulders feel the best now than they ever have. Most people just don't take the time to learn how to bench correctly and then blame the lift when actually they were doing it wrong all along.

Agree 100%.....most guys unless truly gifted don't train the lift and or break down the movement.

[RewardingLabor]

Not trying to start a personal war…

When i do the arms wide i just have someone hand me the bar, like buster said maybe this isn't actually the most optimal way for everyone because maybe my chest to triceps ratio is greater than it should be. I know that I tested elbows in and out recently and for me elbows out was stronger… 600 probably has stronger triceps to chest ratio if the other works for him.

I'm gonna add in more close grip bench press because i want the develop both my chest and triceps. thanks for the advice. I'm glad to know why the wide grip works better for me currently.

[Buster Brown]

Not trying to start a personal war…

When i do the arms wide i just have someone hand me the bar, like buster said maybe this isn't actually the most optimal way for everyone because maybe my chest to triceps ratio is greater than it should be. I know that I tested elbows in and out recently and for me elbows out was stronger… 600 probably has stronger triceps to chest ratio if the other works for him.

I'm gonna add in more close grip bench press because i want the develop both my chest and triceps. thanks for the advice. I'm glad to know why the wide grip works better for me currently.

That is a transition I have had to make (bar grip) and it was one step backwards before I went forwards but def worth it. 600 seems to come from a strong PL background and has the technique down cold. As a BB we tend to think of the bench as a chest exercise but it is so much more. Incorporating close grip bench presses and other variants will def pay dividends on your progress. I used to bench really wide and my triceps werent up to snuff which made lockout very difficult and I started injuring my shoulders to compensate for the poor lockouts.

[marcus300]

After 28 years of lifting and the wear and tear/trials and turbulations of it all I am trying to help others avoid mistakes and put them on a path for success. Wide benching WILL damage your shoulders over time ....no doubt. Dips ARE a great exercise as I have done them for years. I do sets of 8 with 2 45 plates attached to my dip belt. The exercises I outline with more to follow are bench press specific. You don't have to agree but there isn't one thing in this thread that hasn't been tried and true that I am sure alot of guys mat not have been exposed.

I can confirm Buster your completely right in what your trying to get across, with time and experience he will understand but at the moment he's got his head stuck in books which is a normal phase we all go through in the early stages. No offence to anyone but years of experience is worth far more than what you may read on the internet by some know it all..........

[Khazima]

I can conform Buster your completely right in what your trying to get across, with time and experience he will understand but at the moment he's got his head stuck in books which is a normal phase we all go through in the early stages. No offence to anyone but years of experience is worth far more than what you may read on the internet by some know it all..........

I agree experience is worth a lot, with this specific topic I'm quoting others experience as well (world record benchers, elite athletes etc) not books which applies more to diet and nutrition. Buster and myself have already talked privately and I realise I'm out of line since this is his thread so I don't appreciate the uncalled for attack.

[Buster Brown]

New year......starting fresh!

[Khazima]

New year......starting fresh!

Haha amen to that, found out the other day my gym has chains and I've ordered some bands, super excited to implement them.

[600@50]

Haha amen to that, found out the other day my gym has chains and I've ordered some bands, super excited to implement them.

Chains and bands are awesome. Don't forget board presses too. Real shoulder savers and builds a huge lockout.

[Buster Brown]

Chains and bands are awesome. Don't forget board presses too. Real shoulder savers and builds a huge lockout.

All good stuff. I just did a training program with floor presses and Paul Dicks presses....Now onto flat bench with bands and fat bar close grip presses for 8 weeks. I have been doing a w/u, 8, 6, 5, 3, 3, 3 Rep scheme with the occasional single to bridge the triplets ( really trying to avoid any setbacks) depending on the jump up in weight. Really enjoying training more like a PL instead of year round BBing. Has definitely strengthened some weak areas.

[Khazima]

All good stuff. I just did a training program with floor presses and Paul Dicks presses....Now onto flat bench with bands and fat bar close grip presses for 8 weeks. I have been doing a w/u, 8, 6, 5, 3, 3, 3 Rep scheme with the occasional single to bridge the triplets ( really trying to avoid any setbacks) depending on the jump up in weight. Really enjoying training more like a PL instead of year round BBing. Has definitely strengthened some weak areas.

It's addictive just trying to push as much weight as possible and working towards that goal :P

Doing heavy floor presses on strength days atm, need to make a board and take it to the gym.

[Buster Brown]

It's addictive just trying to push as much weight as possible and working towards that goal :P

Doing heavy floor presses on strength days atm, need to make a board and take it to the gym.

You can cut a piece of 4*4 about a foot long. I slip it under my T-shirt to keep it from sliding around.

[marcus300]

I agree experience is worth a lot, with this specific topic I'm quoting others experience as well (world record benchers, elite athletes etc) not books which applies more to diet and nutrition. Buster and myself have already talked privately and I realise I'm out of line since this is his thread so I don't appreciate the uncalled for attack.

I wasn't attacking you I was agreeing with buster, like I said no offence to anyone but a lot of people should watch what they give advice on and explain if they do give advice why they have this opinion ie from experience, books, Google etc. Don't worry about it its all good

[600@50]

It's addictive just trying to push as much weight as possible and working towards that goal :P

You are so right in calling it addictive. I can get carried away doing reverse band bench. The looks you get from around the gym when you load that bar up are priceless. I use the excuse that it's for the lockout but really sometimes it's for my ego i guess. But it always makes straight weight days feel light afterwards.

[Buster Brown]

You are so right in calling it addictive. I can get carried away doing reverse band bench. The looks you get from around the gym when you load that bar up are priceless. I use the excuse that it's for the lockout but really sometimes it's for my ego i guess. But it always makes straight weight days feel light afterwards.

I get that way when I throw on the chains which add 70 pounds at the top.

[BG]

I wasn't attacking you I was agreeing with buster, like I said no offence to anyone but a lot of people should watch what they give advice on and explain if they do give advice why they have this opinion ie from experience, books, Google etc. Don't worry about it its all good

Well said, I agree 100%

[Buster Brown]

Changing from the way a bodybuilder does things to the way a PL does things IS a big difference. At heart I will always be a BB but I am fascinated with powerlifting. So much to the point that I dedicate 12 weeks to powerlifting in an effort to become more well rounded not only in my knowledge but my build as well. I always had an upper back but no lower.... big chest but not so big triceps....All that is now starting to balance out. Yes, there have been some steps taken back to go forward but not as bad as you would think. I have found the following rep scheme for my major compound chest movement to be the most effective (there are many, this just happens to be what I am using) and that is
1) A warmp-up
2) set of 8
3)set of 6
4) set of 5
5-7) sets of 3
Depending on what the jump is in weight I will add in a single rep to bridge the gap. For example 300 for 3, 325 for 1, 350 for 3. I find this method to be a safer approach to heavier weight. Now.....most powerlifters are going to just laugh at me but this isnt what bodybuilders normally do. Smart powerlifters lift smart and avoid injuries by taking these little bump ups in weight. It is definitely worth the energy spent on the 1 rep as opposed to chancing an injury.

[marcus300]

Changing from the way a bodybuilder does things to the way a PL does things IS a big difference. At heart I will always be a BB but I am fascinated with powerlifting. So much to the point that I dedicate 12 weeks to powerlifting in an effort to become more well rounded not only in my knowledge but my build as well. I always had an upper back but no lower.... big chest but not so big triceps....All that is now starting to balance out. Yes, there have been some steps taken back to go forward but not as bad as you would think. I have found the following rep scheme for my major compound chest movement to be the most effective (there are many, this just happens to be what I am using) and that is
1) A warmp-up
2) set of 8
3)set of 6
4) set of 5
5-7) sets of 3
Depending on what the jump is in weight I will add in a single rep to bridge the gap. For example 300 for 3, 325 for 1, 350 for 3. I find this method to be a safer approach to heavier weight. Now.....most powerlifters are going to just laugh at me but this isnt what bodybuilders normally do. Smart powerlifters lift smart and avoid injuries by taking these little bump ups in weight. It is definitely worth the energy spent on the 1 rep as opposed to chancing an injury.

I did powerlifter for the first few year when I got into lifting, it built a base for me and great foundation. My friends at the time were big serious PL's so it was always me trying to get to their level in time I did and then blow them away. But my body changed really muscular and I knew PL wasn't for me even though I was extremely strong and still am, I was made for building muscle rather than PL'ing so I took the BB route and then I exploded. I haven't done any for yrs and wouldn't want to I can manipulate any part of my body to grow and infact my lower back grow bigger and thicker when I stopped PL'ing but each to their. Good thread Buster and you give some excellent information keep it up your experience shines through

[RewardingLabor]

Buster have you used iron bull grips or a fat bar? Does not using my thumb at all to grip the bar (so thumbs on the same side of the bar as fingers) accomplish the same goal?

[600@50]

Buster have you used iron bull grips or a fat bar? Does not using my thumb at all to grip the bar (so thumbs on the same side of the bar as fingers) accomplish the same goal?

Always. ...and I mean always wrap your thumbs around the bar when doing any kind of bench press. Flat, incline or decline it doesn't matter. Safety first when on the bench.

And here's a good reason why to not use a false grip when bench pressing. There's no way to react fast enough.

400LB Powerlifter Accident in Russia - Later Dies: http://youtu.be/rgYDfporX00

[Buster Brown]

Always. ...and I mean always wrap your thumbs around the bar when doing any kind of bench press. Flat, incline or decline it doesn't matter. Safety first when on the bench.

And here's a good reason why to not use a false grip when bench pressing. There's no way to react fast enough.

400LB Powerlifter Accident in Russia - Later Dies: http://youtu.be/rgYDfporX00

I agree with 600 on thumb placement....safety first. When I am doing tricep work I do not wrap my thumbs and I do get a better hit on my triceps. Most of my pressing movements including fat bar board presses or fat bar close grip are done in the rack.

[RewardingLabor]

Always. ...and I mean always wrap your thumbs around the bar when doing any kind of bench press. Flat, incline or decline it doesn't matter. Safety first when on the bench.

And here's a good reason why to not use a false grip when bench pressing. There's no way to react fast enough.

400LB Powerlifter Accident in Russia - Later Dies: http://youtu.be/rgYDfporX00

That was sufficiently terrifying yea.

[Buster Brown]

That was sufficiently terrifying yea.

Not a bad idea to do your pressing movements in a rack especially when going into unchartered territory.

[Buster Brown]

This is the current chest day routine I am doing. Please note that I do triceps twice a week and do my heavier triceps work with shoulders.
1) weighted crunches on a physio ball ...2 sets to failure.
2)standing rope crunches...1 set to failure
3) flat bench press with bands....warm-up. 8,6,5,3,3,3.
4) dbl incline. 8,8,6,6,6.
5)flat dbl triplets. 4,4,4,4.
6) flat flyes off physio ball 10,10 (done light more for a stretch)
7)lying triceps extra.4*10
8) standing overhead triceps bar extensions. 4*10
9) rear delts 4*10
10) seated fat bar bicep curls 4*10
11)standing gaspari curls 4*10
There are a million variations ....this is just one of them.

[bulldoghorn]

Obviously, everyone is different, and bodies are slightly different.

On my chest/tricep day(once a week), I do dumbbell incline, flat bench, and decline 4 sets of 10 for each, so 10 reps of incline, 10 reps of decline, and 10 reps of flat bench(equals 1 set) then rest for 2 minutes. I look to fail on 3rd and 4th sets at about 8 reps. Once I can do 10 reps for 4 sets then go up in weight by 5 pounds. Been doing this for 10 weeks now. Just got on regular bench and did more than I have ever done, but didn't max. Did 6 reps of 275. when I started I could not do 275 for 1 rep. I don't know or care what my actual max is on bench press, just know I am getting stronger with this routine.

[Buster Brown]

Obviously, everyone is different, and bodies are slightly different.

On my chest/tricep day(once a week), I do dumbbell incline, flat bench, and decline 4 sets of 10 for each, so 10 reps of incline, 10 reps of decline, and 10 reps of flat bench(equals 1 set) then rest for 2 minutes. I look to fail on 3rd and 4th sets at about 8 reps. Once I can do 10 reps for 4 sets then go up in weight by 5 pounds. Been doing this for 10 weeks now. Just got on regular bench and did more than I have ever done, but didn't max. Did 6 reps of 275. when I started I could not do 275 for 1 rep. I don't know or care what my actual max is on bench press, just know I am getting stronger with this routine.

Then stick with it. I wouldn't necessarily call that a strength routine but if you are happy with the progress you are making then keep it up.

[Baxter35]

Buster, I just found this thread and agree 100% with your approach. I wouldn't call myself either a bodybuilder or a powerlifter, I enjoy aspects of both. However, with regards to bench I've moved almost completely to PL style training over the last year and a half. The biggest change at first was relearning the correct form. I spent way too many years listening to talking heads on the internet spouting off about keeping shoulders wide, full range of movement, no arch in the back, keep reps high, etc...and all I got for it was f#cked up shoulders and a weak bench..lol. In the last 1.5 years I've gone from a 1rm of 260 to 355 just last week, and my shoulders rarely bother me anymore. My new goal is 405 this year.

[Buster Brown]

Buster, I just found this thread and agree 100% with your approach. I wouldn't call myself either a bodybuilder or a powerlifter, I enjoy aspects of both. However, with regards to bench I've moved almost completely to PL style training over the last year and a half. The biggest change at first was relearning the correct form. I spent way too many years listening to talking heads on the internet spouting off about keeping shoulders wide, full range of movement, no arch in the back, keep reps high, etc...and all I got for it was f#cked up shoulders and a weak bench..lol. In the last 1.5 years I've gone from a 1rm of 260 to 355 just last week, and my shoulders rarely bother me anymore. My new goal is 405 this year.

That's some solid improvement bro....I myself am shooting for 405 this winter. 395 being my 1rep Max I think its a doable goal. The techniques def work you just need to put in the work and be patient.

[Baxter35]

Good luck with the 405 this winter! You'll get it!

[Buster Brown]

Good luck with the 405 this winter! You'll get it!

Thanks......I will be taking a video and sharing it.....hopefully sooner then later.

[Buster Brown]

Well....I have talked alot about how important the triceps are in terms of having a good bench but you need to be able to get the bar off of your chest. There are a few exercises you can try. The one that I will be spending some time with in my new training routine involves using the cambered bar....basically an Olympic bar that allows you to bring the bar down past its normal starting point on top of your chest. This one is tough and if you are tight in the chest it forces you to stretch. Another one is Pin Presses where you would hop in the rack to do your flat bench there and set the pins up so you would be pressing the weight off your chest at the beggining of the exercise. You need to be careful with this one as well. It's a good idea to build up slow on these due to the emphasis on the stretch and starting position.

[bigrich4]

Benching wide grip is for geared lifters, not raw. Great way to get hurt