Advice on routine

[DuckTheViking]

Hi guys,

Am 44, 218lbs, 6'4", 21.3% BF, almost total novice - I lifted a fair bit in my 20s, but hardly been in a gym since then. I am trying reach 15% BF and reassess next steps then. The last 4 months of 2017 I attempted to dial in training and nutrition. Since mid Jan 2018 (6 weeks) I have followed the below program.

Monday: Legs
Weighted lunges 3 x 15
Deadlifts 4 x 10
Weighted step-ups 3 x 12
Leg press - wide stance 4 x 12
Leg curls 3 x 12
Double leg calf press leg machine 4 x 25
Cardio 30 min

Tuesday: Chest / tri
Barbell flat bench press 4 x 10
Flat dumbbell flyes 2 x 10
Incline dumbbell press 4 x 10
Incline dumbbell flyes 2 x 10
Cable tricep pushdown rope - 4 x 12
Tricep cable overhead extension rope - 4 x 12
Cardio 30 min

Wednesday: Rest

Thursday: Legs (again)
Squats 4 x 10
Weighted lunges 3 x 12
Leg press narrow stance 4 x 12
Leg extension 3 x 12
Jump squats 3 x 12
No cardio

Friday: Back / Biceps
Barbell flat bench press 4 x 3 (heavier weights than Tuesday)
Bent over barbell row 3 x 12
Seated row 3 x 12
Wide grip pulldown 3 x 12
Dumbbell single arm rows 3 x 10
Barbell curls 4 x 10
Dumbbell hammer curls 4 x 10
Cardio 30 min

Saturday: Shoulders
Seated dumbbell shoulder press 4 x 12
Dumbbell lat raises 3 x 12
Upright dumbbell rows 3 x 10
Dumbbell front raises 3 x 10
Dumbbell bent over rear delt flyes 2 x 15
Cardio 30 min

Sunday: Rest

I do about 60 second rest between arm sets, 90 second rest between sets on chest/back/shoulder, 90-120 second rest on legs.

My calories are about 2200 per day. It seems to work since I am losing about 0.7kg (1.5lbs) per week for the past 3 weeks in a row. With novice gains, I am still adding weight or reps to most exercises every week. I found my maintenance calories to be around 2600. This is really low - probably because I have been sitting on my ass at work for years and metabolism has crashed.

Chest has always been my weakest spot, hence an extra bench press on Fridays. Two leg days because they are the largest muscle groups and I need to build my overall strength and fitness.

What can I do better or different?

Thanks for any advice.

[GearHeaded]

not a bad routine. but let me give my 2 cents. your basically doing a one body part per week bro split.

this traditional one body part per week bro split is NOT always ideal for your average lifters . your really cutting yourself short and missing out on a lot of potential gains.

""yeah but don't the pros do one body part per week splits like this, and look at them"".

the reason a lot of bigger guys will only do one body part per week is because they cause so much homeostatic stress on the one muscle group that they need a whole week to recover . you on the other hand likely do not.

heres an example-
pro chest day - he benches 495 for reps, he incline presses 180 pound dumbbells for reps
your chest day - you bench 185 for reps, you incline press 50 pound dumbbells for reps

now tell me who has done so much homeostatic damage to the chest and the CNS that you need a whole week to recover from it. obviously the pro. he's done 100x more volume. you on the other hand have done so little volume that your chest will recover in just a few days and will be ready to be trained again. by waiting so long to train it after its already recovered is just missing out on more potential growth.

I highly advise you try a training split where you hit multiple body parts per workout so that each body part is hit 2-3 times per week rather then just once per week.


having said all that, there are a few guys that even though they aren't that strong or cause that much stress, they still respond fairly well to one body part per week splits. BUT, a majority of my clients have gotten the best results by hitting body parts with more frequency

[cousinmuscles]

Hi guys,

Am 44, 218lbs, 6'4", 21.3% BF, almost total novice - I lifted a fair bit in my 20s, but hardly been in a gym since then. I am trying reach 15% BF and reassess next steps then. The last 4 months of 2017 I attempted to dial in training and nutrition. Since mid Jan 2018 (6 weeks) I have followed the below program.

Monday: Legs
Weighted lunges 3 x 15
Deadlifts 4 x 10
Weighted step-ups 3 x 12
Leg press - wide stance 4 x 12
Leg curls 3 x 12
Double leg calf press leg machine 4 x 25
Cardio 30 min

Tuesday: Chest / tri
Barbell flat bench press 4 x 10
Flat dumbbell flyes 2 x 10
Incline dumbbell press 4 x 10
Incline dumbbell flyes 2 x 10
Cable tricep pushdown rope - 4 x 12
Tricep cable overhead extension rope - 4 x 12
Cardio 30 min

Wednesday: Rest

Thursday: Legs (again)
Squats 4 x 10
Weighted lunges 3 x 12
Leg press narrow stance 4 x 12
Leg extension 3 x 12
Jump squats 3 x 12
No cardio

Friday: Back / Biceps
Barbell flat bench press 4 x 3 (heavier weights than Tuesday)
Bent over barbell row 3 x 12
Seated row 3 x 12
Wide grip pulldown 3 x 12
Dumbbell single arm rows 3 x 10
Barbell curls 4 x 10
Dumbbell hammer curls 4 x 10
Cardio 30 min

Saturday: Shoulders
Seated dumbbell shoulder press 4 x 12
Dumbbell lat raises 3 x 12
Upright dumbbell rows 3 x 10
Dumbbell front raises 3 x 10
Dumbbell bent over rear delt flyes 2 x 15
Cardio 30 min

Sunday: Rest

I do about 60 second rest between arm sets, 90 second rest between sets on chest/back/shoulder, 90-120 second rest on legs.

My calories are about 2200 per day. It seems to work since I am losing about 0.7kg (1.5lbs) per week for the past 3 weeks in a row. With novice gains, I am still adding weight or reps to most exercises every week. I found my maintenance calories to be around 2600. This is really low - probably because I have been sitting on my ass at work for years and metabolism has crashed.

Chest has always been my weakest spot, hence an extra bench press on Fridays. Two leg days because they are the largest muscle groups and I need to build my overall strength and fitness.

What can I do better or different?

Thanks for any advice.

The volume is a bit high. You can cut down on some volume and increase the intensity and get more results out of it. For example on chest day, one flat press, one incline press, one variation of flyes, is enough. Pick a weight and aim to get e.g. 3 sets of 6-10 reps. If you manage to do 3 sets of 10 reps increase the weight, repeat when you can do 10 on all sets. Progressive resistance is what you want to get results not just moving weights up and down

No need to train legs twice just because its a larger muscle group although your initial thought is good with your program of splitting deads/squats. Split up the training so one day is focused on quads the other on hamstrings. Squats, leg press, leg extensions on one day. Deads, lunges, leg curls the other. There is some crossover but my experience is it is much better to split them up so that you can keep the intensity high and go harder.

If you are worried of getting enough variation when doing less exercises, think of it this way, you won't do the exact same routine forever. Say you do this for 4 weeks. After that you can switch from barbell presses to dumbbells, from squats to front squats et.c. et.c. When you finally do them you won't be halfassing them after tiring yourself out on the first exercises.

Don't forget forearms, if you neglect them they will be behind and you'll risk injuring yourself when moving heavy weights, done that myself lol.

Also your back workout consists of 4 rowing exercises. What about vertical pulls? Hits the back in a different way while the rows are similar.

[DuckTheViking]

not a bad routine. but let me give my 2 cents. your basically doing a one body part per week bro split.

this traditional one body part per week bro split is NOT always ideal for your average lifters . your really cutting yourself short and missing out on a lot of potential gains.

I think you are spot on. Each body part is now rested well before the next session, growing for a few days and then missing out on further growth until next session. I have been on this program 6 weeks now, I will give it a few more weeks and then change into a split with each body part 2-3 times per week, based on 5 sessions a week. Thanks!

[DuckTheViking]

The volume is a bit high. You can cut down on some volume and increase the intensity and get more results out of it. For example on chest day, one flat press, one incline press, one variation of flyes, is enough. Pick a weight and aim to get e.g. 3 sets of 6-10 reps. If you manage to do 3 sets of 10 reps increase the weight, repeat when you can do 10 on all sets. Progressive resistance is what you want to get results not just moving weights up and down

No need to train legs twice just because its a larger muscle group although your initial thought is good with your program of splitting deads/squats. Split up the training so one day is focused on quads the other on hamstrings. Squats, leg press, leg extensions on one day. Deads, lunges, leg curls the other. There is some crossover but my experience is it is much better to split them up so that you can keep the intensity high and go harder.

If you are worried of getting enough variation when doing less exercises, think of it this way, you won't do the exact same routine forever. Say you do this for 4 weeks. After that you can switch from barbell presses to dumbbells, from squats to front squats et.c. et.c. When you finally do them you won't be halfassing them after tiring yourself out on the first exercises.

Don't forget forearms, if you neglect them they will be behind and you'll risk injuring yourself when moving heavy weights, done that myself lol.

Also your back workout consists of 4 rowing exercises. What about vertical pulls? Hits the back in a different way while the rows are similar.

I can definitely feel that I am running out of energy towards the end of sessions and will try to reduce the volume a bit. I am doing very much as you advice, doing a few more reps each week until I manage about 3 x 12 or 3 x 10, then add a bit weight so I can only do 8 or so reps. I keep a journal of every lift so I can see what I did last week and try to add either a bit weight or a few reps.

As for legs, I see your point in having a more logical split to it.

There is Wide Grip Pulldown in there, that's the vertical pull. Out of all the rows, it's the bent over barbell row that I feel most tiring - probably because it engages my core and supporting muscles the most, since I'm standing while doing it.

I will try to incorporate these advice into my next routine, I will give this one a couple more weeks before changing.

Thanks!

[GearHeaded]

I think you are spot on. Each body part is now rested well before the next session, growing for a few days and then missing out on further growth until next session. I have been on this program 6 weeks now, I will give it a few more weeks and then change into a split with each body part 2-3 times per week, based on 5 sessions a week. Thanks!

give this video a watch. it just came out on the tube a few hours ago. but makes some good points that I was referring to.
and JP is one of the brightest bodybuilders in the industry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJQRnsNUjS0

[GearHeaded]

also of note.. pharmacy grade gear is a lot of times cheaper then UGL . a bottle of test at Costco is like $30. yet a bottle of test at most UGL's is like 50-60$. IF your gear is getting produced in a large pharmaceutical facility thats doing 100s of runs at a time, then the price will go down. if your a UGL that has his raw powders occasionally ceased in customs, has to put in way more hours producing things underground etc.. then he is going to want a bigger cut $ .

don't be fooled into thinking "hey my stuff is pharmacy grade, thats why its so expensive" ,, bullshit. if its really pharmacy grade it won't be that pricey because its mass produced. the reason it becomes pricey is because your buying it from the third or fourth person, and everyone in between wants their cut.
find a way to cut out these middle men

exception to this is HGH

[DuckTheViking]

give this video a watch. it just came out on the tube a few hours ago. but makes some good points that I was referring to.
and JP is one of the brightest bodybuilders in the industry

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GJQRnsNUjS0

Excellent video, his 5 points include what you just stated that the Bro split is not optimal because there is too long rest period for each muscle group. I will check his other videos too.

[Calcium]

The volume is a bit high. You can cut down on some volume and increase the intensity and get more results out of it. For example on chest day, one flat press, one incline press, one variation of flyes, is enough. Pick a weight and aim to get e.g. 3 sets of 6-10 reps. If you manage to do 3 sets of 10 reps increase the weight, repeat when you can do 10 on all sets. Progressive resistance is what you want to get results not just moving weights up and down

No need to train legs twice just because its a larger muscle group although your initial thought is good with your program of splitting deads/squats. Split up the training so one day is focused on quads the other on hamstrings. Squats, leg press, leg extensions on one day. Deads, lunges, leg curls the other. There is some crossover but my experience is it is much better to split them up so that you can keep the intensity high and go harder.

If you are worried of getting enough variation when doing less exercises, think of it this way, you won't do the exact same routine forever. Say you do this for 4 weeks. After that you can switch from barbell presses to dumbbells, from squats to front squats et.c. et.c. When you finally do them you won't be halfassing them after tiring yourself out on the first exercises.

Don't forget forearms, if you neglect them they will be behind and you'll risk injuring yourself when moving heavy weights, done that myself lol.

Also your back workout consists of 4 rowing exercises. What about vertical pulls? Hits the back in a different way while the rows are similar.

I kind of like his routine man but your tips are very useful indeed, just getting back into and been back at it for 6 months and things are ok just I suffer with programs and sticking with them, thx man

[DuckTheViking]

Just want to say big thanks to CousinM and GearHead.

I took you guys' advice and modified my routine. I have reduced the weekly volume and do two separate splits in a week, hitting whole body twice per week. Sunday/Monday is upper / lower body. Weds/thu/fri is legs/push/pull. I'm quite happy with this routine, it works quite well at the moment.

Sunday - lower body:
Squat 3 x 4-6 / 3min
Leg Press 3 x 8-12 / 90sec
Calf Press in Leg Press Machine 3 x 15-20 / 60sec
Deadlifts 3 x 4-6 / 3min
Lying Hamstring Curls 3 x 8-12 / 90sec
Plate twist / Plank 3 x super set
Landmine 180s 3 x

Monday - upper body:
Bent over barbell row 3 x 4-6 / 3min
Wide Grip Lat Pulldown 3 x 8-12 / 90sec
Incline Dumbbell Chest Press 3 x 4-6 / 3min
Flat Dumbbell Chest Press 3 x 8-12 / 90sec
Seated Dumbbell Shoulder Press 3 x 8-12 / 90sec
Barbell Curls 3 x 8-12 / 60sec
Triceps Rope Pushdown 3 x 8-12 / 60sec
Cardio 20 min

Wednesday - legs:
Squat 3 x 8-12 / 90sec
Leg Press 3 x 8-12 / 90sec
Calf Press in Leg Press Machine 3 x 15-20 / 60sec
Glute Ham Raise 3 x 8-12 / 90sec
Lying Hamstring Curls 3 x 8-12 / 90sec
Landmine 180s 3 x

Thursday - push:
Shoulder Press Dumbbells 3 x 8-12 / 90sec
Straight Bar Pushdown 3 x 8-12 / 90sec
Bench Press Barbell 3 x 8-12 / 90sec
Dumbbell Lat Raises 3 x 8-12 / 90sec
Tricep Rope Pushdown 3 x 8-12 / 60sec
Cardio 20 min

Friday - pull:
Deadlifts 3 x 8-12 / 90sec
Bent over barbell row 3 x 8-12 / 90sec
Seated Cable Rows 3 x 8-12 / 90sec
Wide Grip Pulldown 3 x 8-12 / 90sec
Biceps curls EZ bar 3 x 8-12 / 60sec
Cable Crunch w Rope 3 x
Cardio 20 min